Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Like real basketball, as well as basketball video games? Talk about the NBA, NCAA, and other professional and amateur basketball leagues here.

Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:33 am

Even between the ages of 38-40, Jordan would guard the opposing teams best player on any given night. The respect for this man and his competitiveness is endless. In a league where routinely I see the best players on teams not working hard on defense, or not taking the best player on the opposing team, or literally being placed on the weakest offensive player on the opposing teams starting five, this is refreshing to see.


Here he is at age 38-39 guarding a young Vince Carter. He picks up two early fouls, but goes back onto him in the second half.

phpBB [video]



Here's Jordan guarding Paul Pierce, and shutting him down in the 4th quarter.

phpBB [video]



Jordan guarding TMAC, and TMAC guarding Jordan.

phpBB [video]



For fun, people don't realize how great he was when he came back. Before he got hurt through like 25 games, he was leading the league in scoring and the Wizards were one of the top teams in the east.. with a really poor roster.

phpBB [video]


51 points at age 38 on the Hornets, making them look silly.


phpBB [video]



And to compare (No comparison between LeBron and him anyway). Here is a 33 year old LeBron, on Roberson and the worst Thunder offensive players all game.

phpBB [video]



LeBron on Mbah a Moute all game

phpBB [video]


Here is Greek Freak Guarding LeBron, but LeBron guarding Henson and Liggins all game.

phpBB [video]



It's not that LeBron doesn't guard the best player, or the second best player. He routinely guards the worst offensive player on the floor in the opposing teams lineup. So this isn't about "Well when they had Crowder, they put Crowder on the best". LeBron is literally hidden on defense (By choice or by the coach, or both) in pretty much every single game you watch. And it has nothing to do with expending energy on offense, either. As the majority of his possessions (Which teammates have complained about), he's literally just dribbling in one spot, or holding the ball with not a lot of movement. Bottom line, he is as overrated on defense as he is on offense (In my opinion).

By the way, this isn't me comparing LeBron and Jordan in a legend sense, because frankly it's not even close. This is me pointing out a flaw in the perception of LeBron by the majority of supporters who don't actually pay attention or know basketball, it's the same people who state that Jordan was a "shitty jump shooter", even though he is the greatest jump shooter of all time.
Last edited by Dee4Three on Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 6808
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Andrew on Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:45 am

It's hard to call Michael Jordan underrated, but when it comes to his defense, I think sometimes he was. At the very least, it doesn't get nearly as much attention as his offense, which admittedly was prolific and spectacular, thus it's what people focused on.
NLSC Webmaster/Administrator
Image
Contact: Email | Twitter
Release Threads: NBA Live 08 | NBA Live 07 | NBA Live 06 | NBA Live 2005 | NBA Live 2004
Story Threads: NBA 2K13 | NBA Live 06 (Part 2) | NBA Live 06 (HOF) | NBA Live 2004 (HOF)
NLSC: Podcast | The Friday Five | Monday Tip-Off | Wayback Wednesday | 20th Anniversary of NBA Live | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube


Support The NLSC Hosting Fund: Patreon | GoFundMe

Image
Like my work? Want to help out with the NLSC Hosting Fund? Please consider leaving a tip!
User avatar
Andrew
45? That's a bad luck number!
Administrator
 
Posts: 104866
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:51 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:59 am

Andrew wrote:It's hard to call Michael Jordan underrated, but when it comes to his defense, I think sometimes he was. At the very least, it doesn't get nearly as much attention as his offense, which admittedly was prolific and spectacular, thus it's what people focused on.


Agreed. He was an elite defender his whole career. The Bulls having him and Pippen guarding wings every game must have been a nightmare for opposing teams.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 6808
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:42 am

here is an attempt to guard the opposing teams best player (Durant demolished him in this series, shooting well over 60% with him guarding him).

My favorite part, the 1:40 mark of the video.

phpBB [video]
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 6808
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby [Q] on Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:19 am

To be fair, LeBron is a bigger dude and isn't as quick as Jordan and he also hasn't hit that age yet. I'd say it would probably be easier to compare Kobe at this point
Image
User avatar
[Q]
NBA Live 18 Advocate
NLSC Team Member
 
Posts: 12975
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2002 8:20 am
Location: Westside, the best side

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:47 am

[Q] wrote:To be fair, LeBron is a bigger dude and isn't as quick as Jordan and he also hasn't hit that age yet. I'd say it would probably be easier to compare Kobe at this point


He hasn't hit that age yet?

You can't defend LeBron, the most athletic and strongest player on his team, taking the WORST player on the opposing team every game. Literally the worst player on the opposing team. He's not quick enough laterally to guard the second, or third bests? He hasn't stepped up and said "Listen, Ill take him, hes killing us" or at the start of the game said "I got him" to one of the top 3 players in a teams starting lineup? I would be ashamed if I were him. He has never been an elite defender anyway, but the last few years its been flat out abysmal. The effort alone is garbage.

You are telling me that a 38-40 year old Jordan is more athletically gifted to guard opposing teams best players? Or is it that he is not just a better defender, but a smarter defender who puts pride into his defense. Your age comment doesn't really make sense, as I am comparing a 33 year old LeBron with a 38-39 year old Jordan.

1:40 of that video perfectly sums up how much LeBron cares about defense. Teams were upset at his "Defense Rant" to the bench a few weeks back, probably precisely for those reasons. For that fact that not only is he lazy on D (And stat padding all the time), but he is always guarding the worst player in the opposing teams lineup.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 6808
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby air gordon on Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:58 am

Andrew,
Underrated? Jordan shares the record for most all NBA 1st defensive teams selections :lol:
Derrick is a legend, no matter what. I don’t like how you explained that
Jabari Parker in response to a reporter asking him to comment on Derrick Rose's "fall from grace"
User avatar
air gordon
 
Posts: 7551
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:06 pm
Location: windy city

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:03 am

air gordon wrote:Andrew,
Underrated? Jordan shares the record for most all NBA 1st defensive teams selections :lol:


Pretty sure he means that people seldom talk about his defense, instead they praise his offense.

Just like I hear people mostly praise the athletic part of Jordan's offense(the acrobatic side), and hardly anybody talks about his amazing post game and jump shooting.

Jordan is an all time great defender.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 6808
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Andrew on Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:40 am

Dee4Three wrote:
air gordon wrote:Andrew,
Underrated? Jordan shares the record for most all NBA 1st defensive teams selections :lol:


Pretty sure he means that people seldom talk about his defense, instead they praise his offense.

Just like I hear people mostly praise the athletic part of Jordan's offense(the acrobatic side), and hardly anybody talks about his amazing post game and jump shooting.

Jordan is an all time great defender.


(Y)

That is indeed what I meant.
NLSC Webmaster/Administrator
Image
Contact: Email | Twitter
Release Threads: NBA Live 08 | NBA Live 07 | NBA Live 06 | NBA Live 2005 | NBA Live 2004
Story Threads: NBA 2K13 | NBA Live 06 (Part 2) | NBA Live 06 (HOF) | NBA Live 2004 (HOF)
NLSC: Podcast | The Friday Five | Monday Tip-Off | Wayback Wednesday | 20th Anniversary of NBA Live | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube


Support The NLSC Hosting Fund: Patreon | GoFundMe

Image
Like my work? Want to help out with the NLSC Hosting Fund? Please consider leaving a tip!
User avatar
Andrew
45? That's a bad luck number!
Administrator
 
Posts: 104866
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:51 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby air gordon on Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:03 pm

Let's not overstate it. In that awesome 7 game series against the pacers, Jordan guarded... Not Mark Jackson, not Reggie Miller, but Chris Mullin

So I guess breathing is underrated too since hardly anyone talks about it
Derrick is a legend, no matter what. I don’t like how you explained that
Jabari Parker in response to a reporter asking him to comment on Derrick Rose's "fall from grace"
User avatar
air gordon
 
Posts: 7551
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:06 pm
Location: windy city

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:27 pm

Mullin was 3rd on the team in scoring that year (Behind Smits and Miller). Jackson averaged 8.3. Mullin was not the worst offensive player on the floor at all. So that is not a good comparison.

Also, in game 7 Jordan was on Miller for a good portion of the game, and Miller only hit one shot on him.

LeBron covers the worst player on the opposing team it seems every game, sometimes even the worst bench player (Like Liggins).

LeBron as a defender is a joke next to Jordan.

Jordan also held Miller to 0 Fgs guarding him in the 4th quarter of game 7 in that series.

Taking on the best scorer in the 4th quarter of a game 7? Who would have thought.

phpBB [video]
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 6808
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby air gordon on Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:49 pm

if you watched the games, replay or not, you would know Mark Jackson was a key cog to the Pacers defense. Pippen harassing himself early on was key in the opening games. Jackson came up big when Pippen was in foul trouble

Phil Jackson admitted he put Jordan on Mullin so Jordan could save his energy.

and it was Pippen, not Jordan, guarding Magic as a big key in that Bulls-Lakers finals

as i said, let's not use hyperbole or overstate on how Jordan was this defensive terror 24/7. in hulk voice "Jordan great defense! smash!". ok we all know now even if some people don't talk about it that much
Derrick is a legend, no matter what. I don’t like how you explained that
Jabari Parker in response to a reporter asking him to comment on Derrick Rose's "fall from grace"
User avatar
air gordon
 
Posts: 7551
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:06 pm
Location: windy city

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:54 pm

It's Jordan stopping Miller in general in game 7, hes guarding the best player on the Pacers.

And just stop, don't compare Mullin even at that point in his career to Mbah a Moute, Roberson, etc.

Jordan took on the challenge in game 7, he took on the challenge at 38 against the likes of Carter, TMAC and Pierce in the regular season.

Mocking my attempt to show Jordan's defensive strength, as well as mental strength to guard the best player, while showing the exact opposite out of the supposed "Best player in the world? This is of course pertaining to the hulk smash comment. And Uh oh, did I also annoy you with posting basketball videos on a basketball forum? You have had a problem with that in the past.

This is a relevant topic as it pertains to the way basketball history is looked at/will be looked at, especially when looking back at LeBron's career. More than relevant, actually hoping more people jump in on this thread. Most people I see comment on other forums, or FB, or Youtube videos, or people I talk to at work, consider LeBron one of or THE greatest all around player of all time. That includes defense.

Any comment on LeBron's putrid defense? The 1:40 mark play? Or his guarding the worst player every game?
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 6808
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Sauru on Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:12 pm

Andrew wrote:It's hard to call Michael Jordan underrated, but when it comes to his defense, I think sometimes he was. At the very least, it doesn't get nearly as much attention as his offense, which admittedly was prolific and spectacular, thus it's what people focused on.



to me this just proves that most people watching basketball and commenting about it have no actual understanding of it. Jordan is the best to play the game because of his defense. the fact that he had such a complete game. sadly we have people who harp on the fact that he didnt fire up 97 3's per game but thats to be expected with todays NBA fan
User avatar
Sauru
 
Posts: 7726
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 11:01 am

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Andrew on Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:39 pm

Triple-doubles have also become the standard for measuring all-around play now. Of course, when Nikola Jokic already has more triple-doubles through his first three seasons than LeBron James did through his first three, I'd suggest it's an indication of the way that the game has changed (strategically, stylistically, and in terms of the rules), rather than skill level or any particular point about a specific player.
NLSC Webmaster/Administrator
Image
Contact: Email | Twitter
Release Threads: NBA Live 08 | NBA Live 07 | NBA Live 06 | NBA Live 2005 | NBA Live 2004
Story Threads: NBA 2K13 | NBA Live 06 (Part 2) | NBA Live 06 (HOF) | NBA Live 2004 (HOF)
NLSC: Podcast | The Friday Five | Monday Tip-Off | Wayback Wednesday | 20th Anniversary of NBA Live | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube


Support The NLSC Hosting Fund: Patreon | GoFundMe

Image
Like my work? Want to help out with the NLSC Hosting Fund? Please consider leaving a tip!
User avatar
Andrew
45? That's a bad luck number!
Administrator
 
Posts: 104866
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:51 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:34 am

Andrew wrote:Triple-doubles have also become the standard for measuring all-around play now. Of course, when Nikola Jokic already has more triple-doubles through his first three seasons than LeBron James did through his first three, I'd suggest it's an indication of the way that the game has changed (strategically, stylistically, and in terms of the rules), rather than skill level or any particular point about a specific player.


I agree with this.

All around basketball player, doesn't mean just points/rebounds/assists. People will state LeBron had an all time great NBA finals because of those 3 stats, disregarding the fact that he shot a putrid FG% in the second half of games in the series, got destroyed by Durant individually (Durant shot over 60%), and he was a ghost on defense otherwise (Lack of effort looked to be the part of it). That's why he is the ultimate stat padder, lay off your man hoping he misses the shot, that way you are in the area to get a rebound. That's why players accused him of waiting to make the assist pass instead of the right pass. Or in blowouts, him quickly trying to put up points before he gets taken out (By plowing to get fouled).

The casual fans, and teenagers/kids... only see the triple double, or the high scoring totals, and they think he is the greatest. People who actually pay attention to the games, watch him play, and can understand what is going on, know better.

This my friends, says it all.

Image
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 6808
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Andrew on Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:44 am

I wonder if part of LeBron's problem is pacing himself, especially now that he's in his 30s and playing heavy minutes every year with so many trips to the Finals. He'd start out like a house on fire in the first half of each game in last year's Finals, putting up big numbers, then wilted in the second half. As they aged and had more mileage on their bodies, a lot of the greats developed new tricks and picked their spots effectively, still putting up big numbers and being effective without burning themselves out. LeBron is still a great athlete, but he relies very heavily on that. I feel like he sometimes pushes too hard too early on, racking up gaudy first half stats, but it comes back to bite him when he runs out of steam and can't utilise his athleticism...especially come the championship round after a long NBA season.
NLSC Webmaster/Administrator
Image
Contact: Email | Twitter
Release Threads: NBA Live 08 | NBA Live 07 | NBA Live 06 | NBA Live 2005 | NBA Live 2004
Story Threads: NBA 2K13 | NBA Live 06 (Part 2) | NBA Live 06 (HOF) | NBA Live 2004 (HOF)
NLSC: Podcast | The Friday Five | Monday Tip-Off | Wayback Wednesday | 20th Anniversary of NBA Live | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube


Support The NLSC Hosting Fund: Patreon | GoFundMe

Image
Like my work? Want to help out with the NLSC Hosting Fund? Please consider leaving a tip!
User avatar
Andrew
45? That's a bad luck number!
Administrator
 
Posts: 104866
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:51 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby air gordon on Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:54 am

Sauru wrote:
Andrew wrote:It's hard to call Michael Jordan underrated, but when it comes to his defense, I think sometimes he was. At the very least, it doesn't get nearly as much attention as his offense, which admittedly was prolific and spectacular, thus it's what people focused on.


to me this just proves that most people watching basketball and commenting about it have no actual understanding of it. Jordan is the best to play the game because of his defense. the fact that he had such a complete game. sadly we have people who harp on the fact....

well said

Jordan was a great player on defense. It is impressive during his older years he was doing what he was doing.

Hooray for youtube for having archived footage. We’re very fortunate to have access to it. Post away all you like

I’m merely mentioning that despite all the greatness and defensive prowess of Jordan, he wasn’t always 100% max effort/always guarding the best players.

I suggest you find other people to discuss basketball with if they didn’t think Jordan played great defense and think Lebron James is playing good defense this year.


Jokic is an awesome offensive player. i don't think i've heard him reffered to as a great "all around player" or even above average defender/rim protector.

LOL, where is Q's response
Derrick is a legend, no matter what. I don’t like how you explained that
Jabari Parker in response to a reporter asking him to comment on Derrick Rose's "fall from grace"
User avatar
air gordon
 
Posts: 7551
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:06 pm
Location: windy city

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:58 am

I have heard people state that Jokic is a great all around player. Christ, in a broadcast Reggie Miller said it (and compared him to Chris Webber), which got completely laughed at and shut down by Charles Barkley.

Also, I didn't state it was just people I talk to, I stated I see those comments everywhere. It's on forums, blogspots, FB, Youtube, everywhere.

And yes, Youtube is a beautiful thing. Archived videos are a beautiful thing. Nice that we have all of that for reference, and use in basketball discussions.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 6808
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby air gordon on Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:19 am

Andrew wrote:I wonder if part of LeBron's problem is pacing himself, especially now that he's in his 30s and playing heavy minutes every year with so many trips to the Finals. He'd start out like a house on fire in the first half of each game in last year's Finals, putting up big numbers, then wilted in the second half. As they aged and had more mileage on their bodies, a lot of the greats developed new tricks and picked their spots effectively, still putting up big numbers and being effective without burning themselves out. L....especially come the championship round after a long NBA season.

t's just not James. even a legend like Magic wasn't guardin gother teams best players. Rodman didn't guard the Dream until the 4th quarter of games. Pop sits his players for an entire game (lol) and Kerr limits his guys minutes and they aren't even 30 yet.
Derrick is a legend, no matter what. I don’t like how you explained that
Jabari Parker in response to a reporter asking him to comment on Derrick Rose's "fall from grace"
User avatar
air gordon
 
Posts: 7551
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:06 pm
Location: windy city

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:25 am

But when you are proclaiming yourself all the time as the best player in the world, surely you can guard somebody else besides the worst player on a team, right? And taking off plays entirely to let people waltz into the paint, that effort level consistently? I mean, c'mon.

LeBron is trying to get stats to help his legacy, period. LeBron cares about LeBron, he wants everybody to "Check his stats".

Most overrated player in NBA history.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 6808
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Andrew on Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:33 am

Admittedly I was going off on a bit of a tangent there as I was actually referring to LeBron's offense in last year's Finals, not his tendency to guard other stars. In the first halves, he was unstoppable. In the second, he was more sluggish, no longer finishing at the rim, shooting a woeful field goal percentage, and so on. As I said, he might not be pacing himself well, and still relying too much on athleticism, which is coming back to bite him if he's running himself ragged in the first half and is running on empty come clutch time. Just an observation, because it was night and day in the first and second halves throughout the Finals.
NLSC Webmaster/Administrator
Image
Contact: Email | Twitter
Release Threads: NBA Live 08 | NBA Live 07 | NBA Live 06 | NBA Live 2005 | NBA Live 2004
Story Threads: NBA 2K13 | NBA Live 06 (Part 2) | NBA Live 06 (HOF) | NBA Live 2004 (HOF)
NLSC: Podcast | The Friday Five | Monday Tip-Off | Wayback Wednesday | 20th Anniversary of NBA Live | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube


Support The NLSC Hosting Fund: Patreon | GoFundMe

Image
Like my work? Want to help out with the NLSC Hosting Fund? Please consider leaving a tip!
User avatar
Andrew
45? That's a bad luck number!
Administrator
 
Posts: 104866
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:51 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby air gordon on Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:52 am

people and or internet. if you're finding the same opinons, go fishing elsewhere lol

judging by the lack of responses.. the issue may be the source :lol: shame on me btw

Andrew,
Yeah could be fatigue/his age catching up (even though the nba finals games are spaced out). a younger, uber beast, james was quite unrelenting. even guarding best players at the end of games. maybe GSW does a better job adjusting and they do have the advantage of ability of having multiple guys defend him.
Derrick is a legend, no matter what. I don’t like how you explained that
Jabari Parker in response to a reporter asking him to comment on Derrick Rose's "fall from grace"
User avatar
air gordon
 
Posts: 7551
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:06 pm
Location: windy city

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby shadowgrin on Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:58 am

Andrew wrote:Triple-doubles have also become the standard for measuring all-around play now.

That's been the case even in the past though.
Magic, Bird, Grant Hill, Jason Kidd, all can drop a tripdub any given night and were considered all-around players despite the lack of defense or shooting range.
HE'S USING HYPNOSIS!
JaoSming2KTV wrote:its fun on a bun
shadowgrin
Doesn't negotiate with terrorists. NLSC's Jefferson Davis. The Questioneer
 
Posts: 23042
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 6:21 am
Location: In your mind

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Andrew on Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:13 am

That's fair. It also feels like they're being treated as a definitive mark of greatness, though. Are triple-doubles more common because today's players are better, or has the game changed in a way that makes them more commonplace? Furthermore, with the emphasis on them as markers of skill and greatness, are players chasing them more actively?

I feel it's a mix of the latter two. That's not to say we don't have great players in the league right now, but if Nikola Jokic is getting triple-doubles easier than LeBron used to over a decade ago, I think it's fair to say the game facilitates it a little more now. Not that Jokic isn't a fine player, but he isn't LeBron, then or now.
NLSC Webmaster/Administrator
Image
Contact: Email | Twitter
Release Threads: NBA Live 08 | NBA Live 07 | NBA Live 06 | NBA Live 2005 | NBA Live 2004
Story Threads: NBA 2K13 | NBA Live 06 (Part 2) | NBA Live 06 (HOF) | NBA Live 2004 (HOF)
NLSC: Podcast | The Friday Five | Monday Tip-Off | Wayback Wednesday | 20th Anniversary of NBA Live | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube


Support The NLSC Hosting Fund: Patreon | GoFundMe

Image
Like my work? Want to help out with the NLSC Hosting Fund? Please consider leaving a tip!
User avatar
Andrew
45? That's a bad luck number!
Administrator
 
Posts: 104866
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:51 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:51 am

shadowgrin wrote:
Andrew wrote:Triple-doubles have also become the standard for measuring all-around play now.

That's been the case even in the past though.
Magic, Bird, Grant Hill, Jason Kidd, all can drop a tripdub any given night and were considered all-around players despite the lack of defense or shooting range.


I agree with this to an extent.

I am talking about LeBron literally guarding the worst player on the floor in pretty much every game this season, and the lazy aspect of his defense as well. I am also trying to point out the blind fan base that laments him as a top tier defender (still), and the best player in the world, when he clearly does not play both sides of the ball at an above average level. His defense this year, seems below average.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 6808
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Jackal on Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:44 am

Calling Lebron the most overrated player in history is a bit of a hyperbole. At least it is to me. I'm by no means a fan, but the things he's done, the dominance he's displayed over the game for one and a half decade is pretty damn amazing. I agree with you that he's extremely arrogant and pretty unlikable because he seems very calculated/fake, but most overrated in the history of the game? Eh.

I'll admit I tend to watch Laker games mostly given my schedule these last few years but I think Miami Lebron guarded a lot of the opposing teams better players at the time.

phpBB [video]


phpBB [video]


Also it's pretty amazing he could pretty much guard 1-5. Some plays he was on Tony Parker and a few on Tim Duncan.
Image
User avatar
Jackal
 
Posts: 14842
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:59 am

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:56 am

I agree that he took better players when he was with the Heat,I watched a game the other night where they played the Knicks and he guarded Melo most of the game.

But the last few years, it's been pretty bad. He needs to take more pride in his defense, even if it's just showing more effort.

But as long as he keeps putting up the stats, I don't think he really cares.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 6808
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Andrew on Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:58 pm

Jokic just got a triple-double in 14 minutes, 33 seconds. His numbers were even bigger by the end of the night, which further demonstrates how today's game is facilitating big numbers, in particular triple-doubles. Still impressive, but it's being an overrated stat.
NLSC Webmaster/Administrator
Image
Contact: Email | Twitter
Release Threads: NBA Live 08 | NBA Live 07 | NBA Live 06 | NBA Live 2005 | NBA Live 2004
Story Threads: NBA 2K13 | NBA Live 06 (Part 2) | NBA Live 06 (HOF) | NBA Live 2004 (HOF)
NLSC: Podcast | The Friday Five | Monday Tip-Off | Wayback Wednesday | 20th Anniversary of NBA Live | Facebook | Twitter | YouTube


Support The NLSC Hosting Fund: Patreon | GoFundMe

Image
Like my work? Want to help out with the NLSC Hosting Fund? Please consider leaving a tip!
User avatar
Andrew
45? That's a bad luck number!
Administrator
 
Posts: 104866
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 8:51 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby benji on Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:25 pm

lost a more detailed post, not going to rewrite it

but this is beyond silly, foolish jordon guarded those guys because the wizards didn't have anyone else

and it's beyond silly to try and use it to "point out a flaw in the perception of LeBron" that he's somehow overrated and not the most dominant player of his era, and has been so on both ends, because he's wisely conserved and yet still completely dominates, much as the other dominant monsters like Foolish Jordon or Shaq (who still to this day has never guarded a pick and roll, by anyone, not even children) or whoever else, were spared excess possessions when they could be and yet still dominated games because that's just smart allocation

LeBron's last three playoff runs have been historic by defensive metrics, someone playing 700+ minutes with a DPM of 4+ is super rare, less than twenty players have done it since the merger, and LeBron did it each of the last three playoffs. 800+ minutes and DPM of 5+ is even more rare and LeBron did it in back to back years, something only one other player has ever done also in a Finals split, Ben Wallace in 2004 and 2005.

Jordan's 1991, Duncan's 2003 and LeBron's 2016 are the three main choices for arguably the greatest playoff runs in post-merger history.
User avatar
benji
 
Posts: 14531
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:09 am

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby benji on Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:30 pm

you're pretty much revisiting the Skip Bayless argument from this classic:
phpBB [video]


only after five further straight years of LeBron leading his teams into the NBA Finals, and with a bundle of rings to show for it, and even more absurd seasons and playoffs by every metric than he had abused to 2012's point in history
User avatar
benji
 
Posts: 14531
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:09 am

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:41 pm

benji wrote:lost a more detailed post, not going to rewrite it

but this is beyond silly, foolish jordon guarded those guys because the wizards didn't have anyone else

and it's beyond silly to try and use it to "point out a flaw in the perception of LeBron" that he's somehow overrated and not the most dominant player of his era, and has been so on both ends, because he's wisely conserved and yet still completely dominates, much as the other dominant monsters like Foolish Jordon or Shaq (who still to this day has never guarded a pick and roll, by anyone, not even children) or whoever else, were spared excess possessions when they could be and yet still dominated games because that's just smart allocation

LeBron's last three playoff runs have been historic by defensive metrics, someone playing 700+ minutes with a DPM of 4+ is super rare, less than twenty players have done it since the merger, and LeBron did it each of the last three playoffs. 800+ minutes and DPM of 5+ is even more rare and LeBron did it in back to back years, something only one other player has ever done also in a Finals split, Ben Wallace in 2004 and 2005.

Jordan's 1991, Duncan's 2003 and LeBron's 2016 are the three main choices for arguably the greatest playoff runs in post-merger history.


This comment has so many flaws, I'm not even touching it.

In regards to being overrated, he absolutley is. And my friend, you have fallen for the stat padding. Not only is it obvious that his defense is abysmal the last few years.

Overrated? Absolutely. Do the majority of people fall for his stat padding? Of course.

No comment on him guarding the worst player on each team almost every night? Or the rest on the times he literally shows no effort at all?
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 6808
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby benji on Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:04 pm

If he's being overrated (by whom?) then what's his accurate "rating"?

How in the fuck is he supposed to be able to "stat-pad" his defensive metrics playing as many minutes as he does? How is he supposed to "stat-pad" his way to historic performances on that end? At his minutes where's he leaching the defensive "stat-padding" from if it's so obviously abysmal? Where's he "stat-padding" his all-around efficiency from at his usage rates and minutes?

What player has dictated the game year after year more in this era than LeBron? It's his to control as much as it was Foolish Jordon's and Shaq's in their primes. The only other player within the same solar system as those three during this quarter century is Duncan.

Considering he's led his teams to seven straight NBA Finals with a decade of all-time level performance, I can't see the argument that he's a modern version of Anthony Mason only with extra "stat-padding" that doesn't count on account of it being from extra efficiency and unmatched on-court dominance on both ends.

I did comment on your Skip Bayless tier argument in both posts. air gordon already took it as seriously at it needed to be considering it's based around highlight clips. Please reread, revise and resubmit, thanks.
User avatar
benji
 
Posts: 14531
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:09 am

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby NovU on Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:19 pm

Andrew wrote:Jokic just got a triple-double in 14 minutes, 33 seconds. His numbers were even bigger by the end of the night, which further demonstrates how today's game is facilitating big numbers, in particular triple-doubles. Still impressive, but it's being an overrated stat.

This is why I prefer metrics over raw stats. Possession based is way to go.


Today's ball game is played in completely different manner, no doubt. It's weird to see guards in top 10 rebounding category.



On topic anyone that actually know bball 101 should realize LBJ always been a great defender, both eye test and metrics obviously tell the same story. This is not an argument this is a fact. A very basic ball science.

Playing defense has become a much harder task to pull off these days. Pace is faster, no hand checking, more strict refereeing, teams playing more team plays, no more 1 on 1s, etc. This is why teams score more and more efficiently these days. And in Jordan's days, defenders could throat punch and get away, in today's league, 10 game suspension is guaranteed. LBJ's been a very successful team defensive anchor at more defensively significant position, and his teams have been defensively stellar throughout his career. Numbers back this up. benji's right regardless what other guy says(couldn't read, foe listed), on his knees licking Jordumb's balls. :lol:
THX TO DOPE-JAO FOR THE SPECIAL SIG! <3
Image
Enjoy! <3 Jao
User avatar
NovU
Crap, what am I going to brag about now?
 
Posts: 11220
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:50 pm

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby shadowgrin on Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:12 pm

My favorite Jordan defensive work was when he let Ron Harper guard and tire out Gary Payton in the 96 Finals and Jordan just switched on Payton late in games or end of quarters. Amazing hustle and smarts from Jordan that LeBron could only dream of.
HE'S USING HYPNOSIS!
JaoSming2KTV wrote:its fun on a bun
shadowgrin
Doesn't negotiate with terrorists. NLSC's Jefferson Davis. The Questioneer
 
Posts: 23042
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 6:21 am
Location: In your mind

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby hova- on Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:43 pm

NovU wrote:
Andrew wrote:Jokic just got a triple-double in 14 minutes, 33 seconds. His numbers were even bigger by the end of the night, which further demonstrates how today's game is facilitating big numbers, in particular triple-doubles. Still impressive, but it's being an overrated stat.

This is why I prefer metrics over raw stats. Possession based is way to go.


Definitely. For teams/players you cannot watch every night (and most of us cannot watch every match of our favorite team and/or other teams, the metric stats are the way to go.

But what I really noticed: I was watching every of the first ~30 matches of the Mavs and it really gives you a feeling and sense of what a player does well or not. But then sometimes it is not even backed up by the stats ... which makes me doubt some stats as they are a bit general and rarely account helping out on defensive mistakes by other guys.

Another example is playing good denial defense or even playing lockdown D so that the player will just pass the ball instead of creating himself. Stuff like these is hard to see in stats and I wonder how else you could measure it except by eye test.

@Dee

"LeBron being most overrated ever" is just a simple thesis that

a) is too general (by whom? in which regard? only on D? how do accomplishments and expectations correlate? how do you measure 'being overrated'? How do you compare that to other players ?)

b) is very controversial (given his accolades and his 'peak' assumingly being only two years ago in the Finals)

c) somehow seems biased as you usually have been known as a "generation 80ies 90ies > nowadays" rider.


I also don't see how it is LeBrons fault when he is not guarding the best player on the opposing team - even if it is his decision, why should he not try to rest on defense in order to make plays on offense?

Further I feel like guarding Durant (an example that has been brought up quite often here) is not really something that it is worth to waste energy - with his lenght, shooting touch and overall skill, Durant will hit the same impossible shots, no matter if JR Smith or LeBron or Michael Jordan in his prime is defending him. So I rather let him do his thing and spend my energy on offense.

That 1:40 video example: dude, this is ONE play. I will certainly find a play on youtube where Michael Jordan does not look good on D. Further nobody picked up KD (LeBrons fault at first, but no one helped out - bad communication) and when KD is on a free lane around the three point line, coming with speed, it is too late (except you want to send him on the hardwood).

All in all, I can accept the thought of LeBron being a worse defender than Jordan and being a lazy defender (especially during regular season)

I cannot accept the whole "overrated" thing and the (sorry to say that) totally biased perception you have of LeBron in comparison to legends from back in the days.
User avatar
hova-
Two time Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 5108
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:33 am
Location: Augsburg, Germany

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Dee4Three on Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:52 pm

Haha, YES. This is what I wanted.

While we will disagree about him being overrated, I appreciate all the people that jumped on this.

About stat padding, it was rumored that his own teammates were accusing him of it. And, it's pretty obvious when you watch him play that he's doing it. I consider a lot of his stats empty.

Even in the finals, the commentators mentioned that he was doing it. He was feverishly getting layups in the final minute or so, even when the game was decided.

I think his taking the worst offensive player on defense, and always looking for the assist pass (by holding the ball so long), absolutely helps him acheive his desired numbers.

The stat padding/overrated comments stand, but again I appreciate all the people that jumped in on this one.


The comment above about "One Play" in regards to the 1:40 mark.

Seriously... who guards a man like this on an inbounds pass from the opposite side of the floor. Here, have a free basket.

phpBB [video]


phpBB [video]


phpBB [video]


LOL to the 1:00 min mark, when he tries to yell at Jr Smith and Smith doesn't know what the hell he is talking about.

phpBB [video]


phpBB [video]



The play before he goes off on his team, he just stands there and doesn't help.

phpBB [video]


So many plays in this series. The 0:53 mark is more of that lovely "just stand there" defense he plays.

phpBB [video]


Here is LeBron getting torched by the Jet.

phpBB [video]


More goodies from the Mavericks series. At 2:04, Bosh yells at LeBron for making him cover the corner three.

phpBB [video]


Here is LeBron taking Paul George (Good), but getting beat not only to the hoop, but George getting wide open shots.

phpBB [video]





Here is a complete lie:

Postby shadowgrin on Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:12 am

My favorite Jordan defensive work was when he let Ron Harper guard and tire out Gary Payton in the 96 Finals and Jordan just switched on Payton late in games or end of quarters. Amazing hustle and smarts from Jordan that LeBron could only dream of.


Right, because Jordan only covered Payton in the 4th quarter, or after he was tired out. Not that he started the game off on him in the finals... that couldn't have happened! Wait... Game 2 he was on him right from the start, Game 3 he was... wait...Game 5? no way.... Did you also forget that Ron Harper was also an elite defender? Him being on Payton also makes sense, both could take him. And both did.

phpBB [video]


phpBB [video]


phpBB [video]



Stop acting like it's one or two plays here and there. Wherever he thinks he can take a play off, he will. And, a lot of his defensive effort issues (And incapabalilites) show up in the playoffs.
Last edited by Dee4Three on Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:40 am, edited 9 times in total.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 6808
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby air gordon on Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:04 am

shadowgrin wrote:My favorite Jordan defensive work was when he let Ron Harper guard and tire out Gary Payton in the 96 Finals and Jordan just switched on Payton late in games or end of quarters. Amazing hustle and smarts from Jordan that LeBron could only dream of.

don't you dare discredit, Jordan. i don't care if some bum named labradford smith dropped 37 on him either. i.. want... to.. be.. like.. Mike

while i'm a fan of millsap, i'd prefer to see Denver roll with the Jokic and 4 wing players lineup. while bum Zeller was getting freebies on them, it's fun watching Denver play
Derrick is a legend, no matter what. I don’t like how you explained that
Jabari Parker in response to a reporter asking him to comment on Derrick Rose's "fall from grace"
User avatar
air gordon
 
Posts: 7551
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:06 pm
Location: windy city

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby NovU on Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:50 am

Calling LBJ an 'overrated' defender goes to show how a fan can be blinded by pure ignorance and hatred. What if I said Jordan's the manufactured hero on defense just because it's a common practice for media to hype up anything Jordan. He wasn't even the best defender on his team many years especially in his old days when he made the all nba defensive team.




Defense btw is largely a team activity especially in modern era where hero ball is often avoided in order to favor transition and set plays. Teams run faster and shoot faster, it's harder to be a defender especially with less tools(hand chack, soft calls) available nowadays.

While I also think LBJ as he got older has become a sleeper on defensive end during regular season, he was a step up great for the playoffs. Same thing with Kawhi. The Spurs were a better defensive team with Kawhi on bench. But we'd go remember only the great defender Kawhi on selective memory.
THX TO DOPE-JAO FOR THE SPECIAL SIG! <3
Image
Enjoy! <3 Jao
User avatar
NovU
Crap, what am I going to brag about now?
 
Posts: 11220
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:50 pm

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:01 am

NovU wrote:Calling LBJ an 'overrated' defender goes to show how a fan can be blinded by pure ignorance and hatred. What if I said Jordan's the manufactured hero on defense just because it's a common practice for media to hype up anything Jordan. He wasn't even the best defender on his team many years especially in his old days when he made the all nba defensive team.




Defense btw is largely a team activity especially in modern era where hero ball is often avoided in order to favor transition and set plays. Teams run faster and shoot faster, it's harder to be a defender especially with less tools(hand chack, soft calls) available nowadays.

While I also think LBJ as he got older has become a sleeper on defensive end during regular season, he was a step up great for the playoffs. Same thing with Kawhi. The Spurs were a better defensive team with Kawhi on bench. But we'd go remember only the great defender Kawhi on selective memory.


In what way did he step up great in the playoffs last year? He got torched by Durant when he was on him, Durant shot something crazy like 65% with him covering him.

And it's not "pure ignorance and hatred". Watching both of them on defense, I see Jordan as a far superior defender not only effort wise, but smarts wise. In vice versa, I can say that you are being biased towards LeBron (and ignorant) by not only standing up for his defensive deficiency. but downplaying it as much as possible in order to keep your POV about him.

While it's easy to see when you are watching him play over the years, it's nice that Youtube has videos breaking down some of it.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 6808
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby air gordon on Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:27 am

benji wrote:If he's being overrated (by whom?) then what's his accurate "rating"?

How in the fuck is he supposed to be able to "stat-pad" his defensive metrics playing as many minutes as he does? How is he supposed to "stat-pad" his way to historic performances on that end? At his minutes where's he leaching the defensive "stat-padding" from if it's so obviously abysmal? Where's he "stat-padding" his all-around efficiency from at his usage rates and minutes?

What player has dictated the game year after year more in this era than LeBron? It's his to control as much as it was Foolish Jordon's and Shaq's in their primes. The only other player within the same solar system as those three during this quarter century is Duncan.

Considering he's led his teams to seven straight NBA Finals with a decade of all-time level performance, I can't see the argument that he's a modern version of Anthony Mason only with extra "stat-padding" that doesn't count on account of it being from extra efficiency and unmatched on-court dominance on both ends.

I did comment on your Skip Bayless tier argument in both posts. air gordon already took it as seriously at it needed to be considering it's based around highlight clips. Please reread, revise and resubmit, thanks.

Image
Derrick is a legend, no matter what. I don’t like how you explained that
Jabari Parker in response to a reporter asking him to comment on Derrick Rose's "fall from grace"
User avatar
air gordon
 
Posts: 7551
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:06 pm
Location: windy city

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:38 am

Image[/quote]

Great movie. I appreciate this.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 6808
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby air gordon on Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:48 am

really? that's terrific. now go ahead an answer benji's post..or not and just lose more credibility and gain more troll status. at least we have a few youtube vids to watch now

If he's being overrated (by whom?) then what's his accurate "rating"?

How in the fuck is he supposed to be able to "stat-pad" his defensive metrics playing as many minutes as he does? How is he supposed to "stat-pad" his way to historic performances on that end? At his minutes where's he leaching the defensive "stat-padding" from if it's so obviously abysmal? Where's he "stat-padding" his all-around efficiency from at his usage rates and minutes?

What player has dictated the game year after year more in this era than LeBron? It's his to control as much as it was Foolish Jordon's and Shaq's in their primes. The only other player within the same solar system as those three during this quarter century is Duncan.

Considering he's led his teams to seven straight NBA Finals with a decade of all-time level performance, I can't see the argument that he's a modern version of Anthony Mason only with extra "stat-padding" that doesn't count on account of it being from extra efficiency and unmatched on-court dominance on both ends.

I did comment on your Skip Bayless tier argument in both posts. air gordon already took it as seriously at it needed to be considering it's based around highlight clips. Please reread, revise and resubmit, thanks.
Derrick is a legend, no matter what. I don’t like how you explained that
Jabari Parker in response to a reporter asking him to comment on Derrick Rose's "fall from grace"
User avatar
air gordon
 
Posts: 7551
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:06 pm
Location: windy city

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:00 am

I think you can absolutely stat pad your defense. I've stated the way he pumped up his offensive stats by the way he plays defense as well. Just watching him play defense is all you need to do.

And by the way, don't be a tool Air Gordon. if there is anybody who is best at not answering questions, it's probably you. Numerous times you will ask questions, and someone will answer and ask an additional question, which you turn into another question instead of answering.

What are your thoughts on LeBron's defense the last few years, specifically his effort? What do you think about his own teammates accusing him of stat padding, and commentators also noticing it and mentioning it (In the NBA Finals)? What are your thoughts about him taking the worst player on the opposing team each night this season? What are your thoughts about Shadowgrin stating Jordan only took Payton in the 4th or at the end of quarters when he was tired out, when in reality Jordan started 3 of the 6 finals games on Payton right at the start of the game? What do you think of NovU calling me biased and blinded by hate, when he could certainly be being biased himself with his comments about LeBron?

Yes, the videos are there for your enjoyment. Hopefully you watched them all.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 6808
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:20 am

Rondo is another example of someone who stat padded his defense. Rondo was always an overrated defender, in my opinion.

Also, I never said LeBron was a shit defender. I said he was an overrated defender, I believe he has been his whole career. I stated that he is taking basically the worst player on every team every night now, that is not inaccurate. I stated that I was impressed with Jordan through the ages of 38-40 taking some of the best players in the league, that's also not innacurate.

You Lebron fans... are you going to be alright? Be realistic about who he is as a defender today, and how he's been exploited in the past (sometimes in the biggest moments in the playoffs). It's okay to admit that the man has flaws, and it's okay for someone (me) to not only consider him overrated, but not the best player in the world.

It will be okay guys.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 6808
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby air gordon on Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:43 am

Dee4Three wrote:I think you can absolutely stat pad your defense. I've stated the way he pumped up his offensive stats by the way he plays defense as well. Just watching him play defense is all you need to do.

And by the way, don't be a tool Air Gordon. if there is anybody who is best at not answering questions, it's probably you. Numerous times you will ask questions, and someone will answer and ask an additional question, which you turn into another question instead of answering.

What are your thoughts on LeBron's defense the last few years, specifically his effort? What do you think about his own teammates accusing him of stat padding, and commentators also noticing it and mentioning it (In the NBA Finals)? What are your thoughts about him taking the worst player on the opposing team each night this season? What are your thoughts about Shadowgrin stating Jordan only took Payton in the 4th or at the end of quarters when he was tired out, when in reality Jordan started 3 of the 6 finals games on Payton right at the start of the game? What do you think of NovU calling me biased and blinded by hate, when he could certainly be being biased himself with his comments about LeBron?

Yes, the videos are there for your enjoyment. Hopefully you watched them all.

i'll do you a solid this time. i don't answer your questions because the discussion turns into a hyperbolic longwinded one man ego filled circle jerk. did the ball go in the basket? you respond with the Homer's Iliad plus some youtube vids.

i honestly don't give a shit about your mind blowing questions & thoughts or your happenings with other forum users. i posted in the thread because i thought andrew's comment of jordan being underrated was preposterous. its like we need to have a pre recorded message listing all of his great accomplishments to make sure he doesn't get shorthanded.

the forums have had this stuff come and go and quite honestly i should resist from even engaging. i should know better. i should just be like benji and go hibernate.
Derrick is a legend, no matter what. I don’t like how you explained that
Jabari Parker in response to a reporter asking him to comment on Derrick Rose's "fall from grace"
User avatar
air gordon
 
Posts: 7551
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 4:06 pm
Location: windy city

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:45 am

Well it was a pleasure to have you join the discussion, even if it was just briefly.

You are welcome any time.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 6808
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby hova- on Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:38 am

Dee4Three wrote:Well it was a pleasure to have you join the discussion, even if it was just briefly.

You are welcome any time.


Some of your comments are liking spitting from the top of an ivory tower. I don't like it at all.
User avatar
hova-
Two time Hall Of Famer
 
Posts: 5108
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:33 am
Location: Augsburg, Germany

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Dee4Three on Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:46 am

hova- wrote:
Dee4Three wrote:Well it was a pleasure to have you join the discussion, even if it was just briefly.

You are welcome any time.


Some of your comments are liking spitting from the top of an ivory tower. I don't like it at all.


Nobody said you had to like my comments, and if I am treated a certain way I will also deal out some of my own sarcasm/remarks.
"I don't know if I practiced more than anybody, but I sure practiced enough. I still wonder if somebody - somewhere - was practicing more than me." - Larry Bird

Check out my YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvHJXrqit8Dc6HBY5P6EmAA
User avatar
Dee4Three
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 6808
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:34 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Jordan at 38-40 guarding the best players

Postby Jackal on Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:25 am

You're not really dealing out sarcasm or remarks though, you're just coming off as someone who likes the smell of their own farts so much they have to thank others for farting around him but subtly try to remind them that yours ultimately smells better.

But I don't care enough to be bothered so carry on.
Image
User avatar
Jackal
 
Posts: 14842
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:59 am

Next

Return to NBA & Basketball

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest