How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby Jeffx on Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:40 am

Sauru wrote:all legend players would be fine in any era


Exactly
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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby air gordon on Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:09 am

shadowgrin wrote:Horace Grant was more skilled than what Taj Gibson has.
Grant would still get 25-30 mpg today like Gibson does.

yeah i'd have to agree with that. Grant's ability to switch and defend would get him a starters role. limited offensively but could hit an open jumper and finish at the rim. good call


Jeffx wrote:
Sauru wrote:all legend players would be fine in any era


Exactly

no disrespect to the players who played when the game was young but do you think a player like Mikan could compete against someone like hakeem or Cousy vs even a Westbrook?
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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby NovU on Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:14 am

Sauru wrote:many borderline point guards from the past i feel would be improved today while many bigs would just be worse.

Maybe.

I can imagine David Robinson playing just as good if not better while Olajuwon having slight dip in his production in today's league.


One obvious advantage today's ball handling players have over ex-ball handers is travelling/carrying rule that has become charmin toilet paper soft. Even Kawhi Leonard would get called for travelling violation 5 to 10 times a game under past rule. Isaiah Thomas wouldn't get away playing a single possession without being called for palming violation. Ex guys didn't have luxury of softened travelling.
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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby air gordon on Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:30 am

the Admiral playing even better and the Dream not? the dream already played in the modern 4+1 offense in houston and was more skilled scorer than D-Rob
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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:45 am

Both Hakeem and David Robinson would flourish, no reason to think Hakeem would be any worse than Robinson. Hakeem demanded a double team every single play, even up to the late 90's. Both ran the floor very well, and both were knock down mid range shooters. I watched Nurkic and Lopez do whatever they wanted on the floor the other night, no reason to think that Robinson or Hakeem would be any less effective (In fact, picturing Nurkic or Lopez trying to guard either Robinson or Hakeem is funny). Nene dominated the Thunder with 28 points in a big win during the playoffs last year, Mosgov had 28 and 10 in the NBA Finals a couple years back as well. The big man position is still important (I have League Pass now and watch as many games as I can) The teams that focus on integrating a talented big man (Insert the process) absolutely can get the job done.

I could see the "less effective" argument possibly with players like Dave Corzine, but not with the BIGS who not only had all the tools, but were exceptional athletes.
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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby [Q] on Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:47 am

Jeffx wrote:
Sauru wrote:all legend players would be fine in any era


Exactly

And he was already shooting 3s and playing PG in Phoenix I don't see why he can't learn to shoot 3s like Brook Lopez has done. I could see Barkley being like a draymond green type hybrid player.
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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:52 am

[Q] wrote:
Jeffx wrote:
Sauru wrote:all legend players would be fine in any era


Exactly

And he was already shooting 3s and playing PG in Phoenix I don't see why he can't learn to shoot 3s like Brook Lopez has done. I could see Barkley being like a draymond green type hybrid player.


With the difference being Barkley was even more athletic, and he had an elite post game, was a better rebounder (MUCH better position rebounder), had a deadly mid range shot, etc etc.

The talent difference between the two isn't even close.
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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby NovU on Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:22 am

air gordon wrote:the Admiral playing even better and the Dream not? the dream already played in the modern 4+1 offense in houston and was more skilled scorer than D-Rob

5 second back to the basket rule should have impact on his play, also removal of illegal defense as well. It would be stupid for teams to let their defenders to go honest 1 on 1 versus Hakeem in the post when you can clog, presume and not stay in arm's length of their man no more. It was anti Shaq rule which brought pretty much death to post up games....
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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby shadowgrin on Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:36 am

Hakeem didn't even pound the ball in the post with his back to the basket when he faced Shaq and Magic double teams in the 1995 Finals, he'd do faceups and quick post moves to produce 33-11-5-2-2.

Hakeem would still be fine today.
Probably end up as a way better version of Whiteside.
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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby NovU on Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:53 am

I am sure he'd be more than fine as well. However I still think Robinson would fare better while Hakeem's impact is comparably less than in his era due to style of basketball not favoring post up no more.

What similarity do you see in Whiteside? I don't see much.
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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:47 am

Hakeem could average almost 30 a game on face ups from the elbow. Not sure how that doesn't fit into today's NBA, as stated above, Hakeem when playing Shaq would routinely pummel him from mid range face-ups. Not only that, back to the basket is still a way to dominate in todays NBA. I can point to Nurkic and Lopez who routinely still score back to the basket, Horford as well. They can do both.
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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby NovU on Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:52 am

Days have changed my friend. Goes to show why statistics are valuable in our discussion.

Teams run less post up plays because it is one of the least effective ways to score points in today's era.

This much above is factual, let's not argue here.



Perhaps Hakeem can do just as well or better. You go ahead and believe he would, I just think David Robinson's game complements today's era better. Nobody's right in this hypothetical discussion, you don't need to force your view down into my throat.
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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby Dee4Three on Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:57 am

I didn't say that the post games utilization in todays NBA hasn't changed. I said that it could still be gone to, and that even if not he could do an amazing amount of damage in the face up game.
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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby Sauru on Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:38 am

air gordon wrote:
Jeffx wrote:
Sauru wrote:all legend players would be fine in any era


Exactly

no disrespect to the players who played when the game was young but do you think a player like Mikan could compete against someone like hakeem or Cousy vs even a Westbrook?


if you go far enough back you will find players who were considered great but not really. assuming we just pick them up from the time they played and placed them in a game today then no i dont think mikan or cousy would be good. however if you took westbrook and put him back in that game he would get called for travel literally every time he touched the ball. the game was just too different then and under developed.
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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby shadowgrin on Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:20 pm

NovU wrote:What similarity do you see in Whiteside? I don't see much.

Not the skillset obviously, Olajuwon is a thousand years ahead of Whiteside in that one.

Similarity of scoring area - within 10 feet of the basket, mostly no threes, and the occasional midrange shot.
Both also known for their defense, though Anthony Davis on defense is more similar to Hakeem.

Hakeem's rebounding numbers would probably stay the same or vastly improve considering the amount of threes being jacked. Same with his steals and blocks, no illegal defense so he can roam around to intercept passes to the post or camp on the low block for them blocks.
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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby NovU on Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:50 pm

Fair points.



Whiteside is a headcase. I don't think he'll ever live up to his contract. That's aside the point but...
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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby air gordon on Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:38 am

NovU wrote:I am sure he'd be more than fine as well. However I still think Robinson would fare better while Hakeem's impact is comparably less than in his era due to style of basketball no

Refresh my memory. What was admirals scoring game? I'll be honest I didn't see much of him play til Jordans 1st retirement and when he played the Bulls, he would destroy whichever slow footed big they put on him
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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:24 am

I know you were asking NovU, but I watched Robinson through his primed years and later on.

He was a knock down shooter from 10-15 feet out, but quick enough to get by anybody who was in front of him. You will see that numerous times in the video below. Look how quick his first step was off the pump fake, he was like a guard in THAT body. Pretty insane.

He was good back to the basket, but not like Hakeem. Hakeem had an array of moves to go to, Robinson was more power with some soft touch as well.

Watch Robinson run the floor like a guard at 4:20, seriously.... how intimidating is that? Running the floor he was faster than Hakeem. Defensively, these guys amassed absurd steals and blocks numbers, they would do that and more in my opinion today.

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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby hova- on Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:30 am

This guys genes ... his upper body looks so shredded. Still one of those players who might be a bit overrated in my opinion (or at least he is seen as one of the bigger "star" players of the 90ies), because withtout that tanking season and that TD pick he never would have gotten a ring.

Not to take anything away from him, but for me he is more 3rd tier star player (First tier: Jordan, Bird etc.; second tier: Shaq, Wade etc.)

Time for discussion :D :P
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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:42 am

I personally put him on that second tier. I don't think he ever had a super talented group around him before Duncan, in fact, Sean Elliot is the only other notable name besides a brief stint with Rodman. He still amassed 59 wins in 95-96 (Look at that roster....), 62-20 in 94-95, 55 wins in 93-94, 49 in 92-93, 47 in 91-92, and 55 in 90-91. He was a winner before Duncan, he just didn't get a title. His supporting casts were always average, his numbers were also out of this world in a league that had dominant big men.

Robinson could do it all, I can't knock him for not winning a title. Charles Barkley didn't win one, be is a true legend and on tier 1 or 2 for me.

I could see if Robinson had a bunch of years not making the playoffs (Like the Kings Cousins). He was also a KEY contributor to the 98-99 title even after his injuries that had him sidelined. He averaged 15.6 PPG, 9.9 RPG, 2.4 BPG and 1.6 SPG. If he hadn't been hurt in 96-97, who knows what Robinson would still have been doing.

I also put Ewing on that second Tier.
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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby air gordon on Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:25 am

thanks. appreciate the the vid but i can find lots of Drob vids of him schooling slugs like Luc Longley. how were lots of spurs games available to you in the 90's? how often were they on national TV before league pass started?

i knew he could run the floor like a gazelle and from what i remember teams would match up their PF on him to counter his quickness. his combination of speed & agility for his size is rarely matched even nowadays

but yes- Drob was past his prime when TD came along. TD was already a beast coming into the league and once he figured out passing out of the double team. game over

i have to say those teams Drob was part of pre duncan... Cousins hasn't had a roster comparable to that. his best teammate wasn't even a fringe all star- rudy gay
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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:36 am

I said I watched him through his primed years, not that I watched him a lot. When I watched him, that's what I witnessed. And yes, nationally televised games and most games vs Celtics. Also, he was a constant in the postseason through his career. I would literally sit in front of my tv with a pad and paper and write down stats of every Celtics game, for years, including obviously against the Spurs.

I think Robinson had average rosters, that's just my opinion. I think he was by far the elite player on all those teams with good and even great regular season records. Agreed that Cousins had squat, I certainly don't disagree with that.

Either way, I put him on that tier two. I think he was a better player overall than Duncan, but that is again just my opinion. The thought of that primed David Robinson with Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, and the rest of the Duncans Spurs supporting casts... geesh. I can't even imagine.

Either way, we can only speculate.
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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby air gordon on Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:52 am

there's really no need to go that route. i was merely asking how so many spurs were at your disposal to draw your conclusions. you have a lot to share regarding him from the games you have watched.

Thanks for your opinion
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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby Dee4Three on Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:59 am

What route? The comparison route? It also doesn't hurt to go there with my opinion. It's staying on the topic, because it's been mentioned that he only won titles with Duncan. Who knows what Robinson in his prime would have done with those Duncan Spurs championship teams later on. My opinion is that a primed Robinson is better than a primed Duncan, perfectly relevant.

Robinson was a very good passer as a big, no worse than Duncan. His athleticism in the pick n roll with Parker would be almost impossible to guard, and he was also a good mid range shooter. His defensive prowess also exceeded Duncans. By the way, I like Duncan, but I don't think Robinson should be talked about as worse of a player based on when they were both playing, and who they had around them.
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Re: How good would Charles Barkley be in modern-day NBA?

Postby air gordon on Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:06 am

ok so i misunderstood thinking it was sarcasm. you really sat with your notepad and jotted stats for every game. my mistake. carry on
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