2017 Playoffs: (1) Boston vs. (8) Chicago

[Dee4Three]

Hoiberg's substitutions are killing us, why he kept on yanking Lopez is beyond me. Dude was pretty much THE reason why we came back to take a small lead in the 3rd quarter.

Also, why does he keep playing MCW? I think it's pretty obvious he has no chance of guarding Isaiah Thomas by now, Celtics go on big runs whenever MCW is on the floor...

After 2 nice games looks like we are back to this nightmare reality. How sad Canaan gets dusted off and turns out to be the best of the worst as next pg up

Lopez should played for sure even if Boston played him off the court with their pick n roll game.

Wade stunk again. C'mon maaaaan

Stevens goes with the unlikely small lineup and now Hoiberg has no answer to it

Rondo hurry back

Why is Cameron Payne not playing? He hasn't even been given a chance in this series.

Also, how can these PG's perform so badly? Why such the drop off for MCW? Is it because when he was with the 76ers/Bucks, his stats were inflated because they were so bad? I mean, he looks really bad out there. He can't guard anybody, and his shot selection boggles my mind, he literally gives them nothing. Why not have Butler run the point even more?

I also don't understand why Portis is getting limited touches, he clearly has the ability to create his own shot, and his shot selection was solid. He was getting people up in the air on his outside shot pump fake, and stepping in. He also gives the team needed energy.

I mean, I'm happy for the Celtics (being a huge fan), but I think Hoiberg is making a ton of mistakes.

[air gordon]

Lol are these pg questions serious? Why is he bad? Cuz he stinks! So does Payne and grant. Butler @pg should only happen only in small spurts. Otherwise he'll be gassed out like he was yesterday

Yeah portis could play more. Especially since Niko is playing poorly. What are the other tons of mistakes is Fred making. You know this is a team that backed into the playoffs and lost their only legit pg, right?

[Dee4Three]

Lol are these pg questions serious? Why is he bad? Cuz he stinks! So does Payne and grant. Butler @pg should only happen only in small spurts. Otherwise he'll be gassed out like he was yesterday

Yeah portis could play more. Especially since Niko is playing poorly. What are the other tons of mistakes is Fred making. You know this is a team that backed into the playoffs and lost their only legit pg, right?

Yes, they are serious. These are NBA players, and one of them (MCW) has put up impressive numbers in his career, he literally looks like crap out there. And Payne was getting minutes in OKC (16.0 MPG), but hasn't gotten off the bench, so yes... they are serious questions. MCW has career averages over 13 PPG, over 5 APG and over 5 RPG, along with 1.5 SPG, so he has not been a scrub in his career. So implying that my question is somehow stupid, with your reasoning being "Cuz he stinks!", isn't an actual answer to the question. Something else happens for a player to completely drop off like that, something about the atmosphere, the coaching, or maybe.. just maybe.. he doesn't give a shit anymore? IDK.

Of course I know they lost Rondo, clearly. The mistakes he has made have to do with Portis not getting more touches/minutes, Lopez getting yanked when he should be on the floor, not having his backup PG's being prepared to play in the post season, as well as questionable defensive assignments throughout the game (Like MCW on I.T. and getting burned by him over and over). There were also a couple possessions offensively where I.T. was switched having to guard Butler, and the play call was to isolate Wade on Bradley in the post, which worked only once. Butler should have had the ball on the occasions.

I don't think he is managing the series well, in my opinion. I also think his players don't respect him, reports emerged over the course of the season that the veterans were completely tuning him out, and just running whatever they wanted to. The report was from an NBA scout

http://nesn.com/2017/03/nba-scout-believes-that-jimmy-butler-dwyane-wade-ignore-fred-hoiberg/

[air gordon]

I'm sorry I thought it was common knowledge MCW while a capable defender he is an inefficient scorer, a high turnover rate pg with a terrible perimeter shot.

Payne is worse. Not sure what stats you are looking at but he's has one of the worse PER of active players. he's been so bad he was sent to the d league despite management forcing him into the lineup

That stinks

Having MCW guard IT makes sense. Too bad he did it very bad lol. This isn't poor preparation. This is them being bad and the celtics being able to space out the defense (IT playing awesome)

Counting poor play selection on one hand is generalizing. They were successful sets the bulls ran, in fact many times in a row to get IT switched on the bigger guard/ or the multiple open 3's created but missed by Bulls players

The bulls lack the ball movement and 3pt shooting success they had in the first 2 games

That's old news the players don't respect Hoiberg. Why don't you pull some articles that came out after game 1 and 2

[Dee4Three]

I'm sorry I thought it was common knowledge MCW while a capable defender he is an inefficient scorer, a high turnover rate pg with a terrible perimeter shot.

Payne is worse. Not sure what stats you are looking at but he's has one of the worse PER of active players. he's been so bad he was sent to the d league despite management forcing him into the lineup

That stinks

Having MCW guard IT makes sense. Too bad he did it very bad lol. This isn't poor preparation. This is them being bad and the celtics being able to space out the defense (IT playing awesome)

Counting poor play selection on one hand is generalizing. They were successful sets the bulls ran, in fact many times in a row to get IT switched on the bigger guard/ or the multiple open 3's created but missed by Bulls players

The bulls lack the ball movement and 3pt shooting success they had in the first 2 games

That's old news the players don't respect Hoiberg. Why don't you pull some articles that came out after game 1 and 2

Wow, chill out. What is wrong with you? Do you have any idea how you come off?

I stand by my comments 100%, the players don't respect him, a new article doesn't need to come out to see that. They didn't suddenly start respecting him at the end of the season/playoffs. The MCW crap is concerning, and he shouldn't be playing this poorly, on defense or offense, but he is. That's why it's questionable.

You state the Bulls lack the ball movement and shooting success, that's correct. The ball movement hasn't been as crisp in general, Rondo didn't have the ball 100% of the time in those first 2 games. But part of the ball movement is also on the coach to discipline his players to move it more and create better shots, the Bulls offense hasn't looked good in my opinion in the last two games because of a lack of it.

When I come on here to talk about basketball, I don't come on here for the "know it all" attitude, or to have someone shit in my mouth when I post something. Grow up and check your tone.

I know plenty about the game and have followed it closely for around 25 years, my post was absolutely worthy of the forum and this thread.

[air gordon]

I know plenty about the game and have followed it closely for around 25 years, my post was absolutely worthy of the forum and this thread.

Dee, when you say MCW posted impressive numbers and wonder why CP22 is not playing, it doesn't help your cause

i may not come off as your buddy but i do bring facts to this discussion, not just simple conjecture. so i said MCW and payne stink. now you have your facts as to why they stink. if i didn't pat you the back while telling you this, so be it. if you want to disagree with my arguments, i'm cool with it. actually i encourage it. just bring something to the table worthy of discussion. let the mods do their job if the discussion is going the wrong way.

did rondo have the ball in his hands 100%? of course not. but he knows how to control the pace, read defenses, get defense to commit to him even though he doesn't like to shoot from anywhere on the court. while butler is competent to run some sets on offense, hes nowhere near rondo on pg skills. we've seen it with him and wade many times during the regular season.

hoiberg is easy an target for criticism. from what i gather from the national coverage, he's like a punching bag for them. it was nice for a change to see him get some credit for games 1 and 2. i agree he has a hand in the bulls defeats just not to your degree. what schemes can he come with up against a very good boston defense?? i don't believe its lack of discipline, this team is short on 3pt shooting and lacks players who can create shot for themselves. and i'm sure he'll be the focus of more criticism if the bulls lose instead of mediocre pg play, inconsistent play from niko and wade.

[Dee4Three]

I know plenty about the game and have followed it closely for around 25 years, my post was absolutely worthy of the forum and this thread.

Dee, when you say MCW posted impressive numbers and wonder why CP22 is not playing, it doesn't help your cause

i may not come off as your buddy but i do bring facts to this discussion, not just simple conjecture. so i said MCW and payne stink. now you have your facts as to why they stink. if i didn't pat you the back while telling you this, so be it. if you want to disagree with my arguments, i'm cool with it. actually i encourage it. just bring something to the table worthy of discussion. let the mods do their job if the discussion is going the wrong way.

did rondo have the ball in his hands 100%? of course not. but he knows how to control the pace, read defenses, get defense to commit to him even though he doesn't like to shoot from anywhere on the court. while butler is competent to run some sets on offense, hes nowhere near rondo on pg skills. we've seen it with him and wade many times during the regular season.

hoiberg is easy an target for criticism. from what i gather from the national coverage, he's like a punching bag for them. it was nice for a change to see him get some credit for games 1 and 2. i agree he has a hand in the bulls defeats just not to your degree. what schemes can he come with up against a very good boston defense?? i don't believe its lack of discipline, this team is short on 3pt shooting and lacks players who can create shot for themselves. and i'm sure he'll be the focus of more criticism if the bulls lose instead of mediocre pg play, inconsistent play from niko and wade.

Umm, MCW did post impressive numbers, it absolutely helps my cause/case. He has not been a scrub in his career, and has been known as a good defender, and a player who can bring a scoring punch while also hitting the boards and dishing out assists. That absolutely validates me bringing it up.



Bringing Payne up is logical, Barkley brought him up last night during the show. Barkley questioned whats wrong with him, and why he isn't playing. Which is what I am wondering.

My critiques of Hoiberg are absolutely valid.

1. It's been proven he's not respected by his veterans
2. He has poor lineup management, yanking Lopez out when he shouldn't be out, and not giving Portis enough minutes or enough touches
3. Not having control of his team, players not disciplined properly

All 3 of those things can certainly impact the outcomes of games. Its not just Hoibergs fault, a lot of it is still obviously on the players. Wade was a no-show last game, Butler looks aggressive sometimes, other times he stands in the corner watching the action, Mirotic is damn near invisible on the floor sometimes, not impacting the offensive or defensive ends in a positive way. It's certainly a combination of both the players and the coach.

Again, I stand by my comments 100%.

[Valor]

Couldn't guard IT for shit aside, MCW even managed to throw an inbounds pass out to the sidelines with little defensive pressure. He may have put up some decent numbers in the past, but as a Bulls player for this series at the least, he's done and should be benched. Payne is just shit, I said it when we "acquired" him (through charity work by giving OKC a shitload of assets), and I'll say it again now. What's wrong with him is he can't play, period.

Our best lineup during game 4 was Canaan, Wade, Butler, Niko, and Lopez, with Butler/Wade as the point guards and Canaan as a spot up shooter in the corner, that was the lineup that got us back from the deficit and actually took the first and only lead of the game in the 3rd. While it's sad that Canaan looks like he's the best option, that's just reality right now and unless Hoiberg starts Butler and Wade in the backcourt together and use some size to punish Boston going small, that should be the lineup eating most of the minutes. Lopez's presence inside was a massive reason why we won the first two games and I am still puzzled as to why Hoiberg benched him after our big run and never used him again in the 4th. Dreadful decision. I know he got taken out by Boston's pick and roll, but offensive rebounding and paint presence is our only shot at winning. Our defensive rotation is a mess anyways so I doubt we can win with defense, just stick Canaan on IT and hope for the best.

Can't believe I'm saying this but, we don't really stand a chance without Rondo.

[NovU]

MCW has never been a good player. He's a career .400 shooter with absolute garbage points per possession rate. Your offense gets killed playing him. Canaan's not much better. Payne's rookie season pretty much tops their top seasons. Problem is he's still in erratic learning phase while MCW and Canaan are in their prime at age of 25. Unfortunately Jerian Grant isn't much better option neither, he's practically a tweener between Payne and MCW with lower ceiling.

It's a tough task anyone alone in this league to defend Isaiah Thomas who's already proved to be an elite scorer, one of the top in the league. Might as well put more focus on offense and score some easy basket. Slow footed Wade and Butler tanking to get freethrows are hard to watch. Predictable and boring.

[Dee4Three]

Yeah, my thing is that MCW isn't impacted the game AT ALL.... as a Celtics fan, I love it. But what the hell.

I agree with Valor's best 5, with the exception of Niko when the Celtics go with the second unit (When Jerebko or Olynyk are in). I like Portis in that spot instead against that unit.

Rondo will still be out for game 5, hopefully the Celtics take care of business.

[big-shot-ROB]

I am sorry because I am about te be a little rude, which I do not tend to be here in the NLSC. I guess I have been reading too much the NBA Youtube comment section. The Bulls fanbase needs to relax about Rondo, the guy had 2 good games, but was trash during the hole entire regular season, getting even completly out of the team rotation at times. Him not getting injured could have meant something for the bulls, but IMO wouldn't have mattered. The C's are the top seed for one reason, and they had a couple of rough games, but it was clear they were going to bounce back, with o without Rondo.

The Bulls can't keep up with the perimetre guys in Boston, they only chance is to dominate the paint, but with the cons of having to keep up with the shooting and mobilty of C's bigs. Surely, they don't have any guy like Butler, who can impact both sides of the court at the level he does, but I always thought this series would get back to the predictions.

[Dee4Three]

I feel like Playoff Rondo is a leader, this coming from a Celtics fan who watched him during all his years in Boston. The way he played in the first 2 games, will of course get any Bulls fan/Rondo fan excited and optimistic. But, I agree... he didn't do much at all during the season, and was a distraction for a decent chunk of it. Do I think Boston would have won games 3 and 4 anyway? Yes... I do.... I think those first two games were a punch in the mouth to the C's, and was embarrassing. I also believe in Brad Stevens, and I think his lineup adjustment was huge, and I loved his rotations in games 3 and 4 (although, I would have liked to see a little more of Rozier in the second half of game 4).

Rondo is the best PG on the team, but I still feel the Celtics would have/will take this series.

[air gordon]

Dee,
Mcw has a negative offensive career rating. It's empty stats. He is poor efficiency wise and has a high usage rate to top it off. He had fairly high raw total amount of assists but at the expense of a high turnover rate

Payne's TS% is worse than mcw but at a higher usage rate!

Its makes plenty sense to understand why they shouldn't be on the floor

The hoiberg situation- how can the players respect or lack of respect be measured?! When the teams loses, it seems to come up. What about when they win?

Sure I'll concede some of criticisms of Hoiberg's rotation. At some point Lopez should have came back in in the 4th

Portis played 22mins and had some opportunities. Won't complain about it

I'd like to see a portis-niko frontcourt. If hoiberg is intent on spacing the floor on offense and be mobile enough to rotate on D (his reason for benching lopez in the floor), roll with that duo

I know the Bulls were playing with house money heading into they playoffs. As mentioned before it was amusing that actually won for a change by playing a nice floor game on both sides of the ball. Games 1 and 2 were a joy to watch for a change.

[Dee4Three]

I'm good with that Air Gordon.

I wonder how often Portis and Niko have been on the floor together, I don't remember that combination on the floor hardly at all the last 2 games.

[air gordon]

Ha don't play revisionist historian. You talked about playing with more heart and horford to man up. And had a mini eulogy haha

No one guessed green would be Stevens counter (and successful)and the Rondo injury is just as big

I don't see any lineups of portis Niko on 82games site

[Dee4Three]

Ha don't play revisionist historian. You talked about playing with more heart and horford to man up. And had a mini eulogy haha

No one guessed green would be Stevens counter (and successful)and the Rondo injury is just as big

I don't see any lineups of portis Niko on 82games site

They played with more heart and Horford manned up, so maybe my breakdown helped... somehow.

[Andrew]

I am sorry because I am about te be a little rude, which I do not tend to be here in the NLSC. I guess I have been reading too much the NBA Youtube comment section. The Bulls fanbase needs to relax about Rondo, the guy had 2 good games, but was trash during the hole entire regular season, getting even completly out of the team rotation at times. Him not getting injured could have meant something for the bulls, but IMO wouldn't have mattered. The C's are the top seed for one reason, and they had a couple of rough games, but it was clear they were going to bounce back, with o without Rondo.

I can't speak for the reaction of Bulls fans elsewhere, but as far as us Bulls fans who post here frequently, we've been fairly consistently disappointed with Rondo for most of the season. He finally seemed to be making a difference in those first two games, and his injury leaves the team without a point guard who's proven themselves reliable at any point of their career, so it's fair to say it's had an impact on their ability to at least be competitive. I don't doubt that there are Bulls fans out there who were getting ahead of themselves and too excited about his performance, but I don't think any of the Bulls fans around these parts would vehemently disagree with you on those points.

[NovU]

Here's why one of the best defensive players in the league like Butler who semi successfully guarded LBJ in the past cannot stop Isaiah.

phpBB [video]

[air gordon]

Ha good old coach Nick actually did a breakdown of it

On those hesitation then turn and go it looks like a carry. He gets in 2 steps before the next dribble. But that's watching in slow motion. In this era I don't see it getting called as a violation. Sadly for the Bulls

High pick and roll. Let's see if the Bulls can adjust. Badly need a vintage playoff wade game and Niko to go. Bonkers

[Dee4Three]

I bet he gets called for a carry tonight. I can almost guarantee it.

[air gordon]

just one violation being called would make Hoiberg a genius

[NovU]

WADE cmon. Too many unforced turnovers. He's trying too hard to get that meaningless triple double.

EDIT: Offense is just terrible. Do they have any set plays? Or is ISO all they got with everyone else watching.

EDIT: Turrible. Seems like the Bulls gave up.

EDIT: It's fucking sad to see Bulls players fighting the refs and not the Celtics. Rondo is badly missed.

[Dee4Three]

Nice job C's.

One more. Let's take this in 6.

[air gordon]

im pretty sure on the replay you see the ref see crowder has a figure four on lopez legs and still didn't call it

butler playing through a knee injury smh

[Dee4Three]

im pretty sure on the replay you see the ref see crowder has a figure four on lopez legs and still didn't call it

butler playing through a knee injury smh

Watching Butler in the 4th, it's like he didn't exist. He was just hanging out in the corner on offense.

Must be the knee, he wasn't aggressive at all.

And Crowder clearly had Lopez's legs tied up on that play, I don't blame Lopez for getting pissed.