MVP Race 2017

[Andrew]

The 2017 season is in its final weeks, and the ballots will soon be all cast. Who's your personal pick for MVP, and is it the same person you think will actually win?

I'm going with Russell Westbrook, on both counts. The Thunder could actually still win 50 games, and even if they don't, will probably end up less than ten games worse off than they were last season, despite losing both Kevin Durant and Serge Ibaka. Westbrook has been carrying them all year, and he's on pace to do the unthinkable, averaging a triple-double for an entire season in the modern era. He's had some clutch performances, and been huge for them all year. Awarding the MVP to a player on a team with less than 50 wins is rare - it last happened in 1982 with Moses Malone - but given what he's done this season, and how he's carried the Thunder, I don't think it would be inappropriate for Westbrook to be another rare example. Indeed, I'd say it would be well-earned.

Speaking of close MVP races, the battle for the 1990 MVP is an interesting one to look back on, especially due to the anomaly of the player with the most first place votes ultimately missing out on the award.

[NovU]

Westbrook's triple double season indeed is incredible. Looks like Harden's almost equally impressive season is being shadowed. Harden has efficiency but Westbrook has slightly more numbers in pts and reb.

OKC had three of the today's best in their young era. Damn... What if they were able to keep them all? What if... That what if lingers in my head. What monstrous team they would have been. Might as well been 3 team conference with GSW, SAS, and OKC.

That said, Westbrook is also my pick. I never imagined triple double avg season would be possible in modern era.

[Sauru]

westbrook needs to get the award this year.

[Andrew]

If Westbrook misses out because of the Thunder's record - again, I don't think he should, but let's face it, it's a possibility - who would you give it to? I think I'd say Harden, followed by Leonard.

[NovU]

I think it should be noted that Rockets' record is just as much amazing. It wouldn't be so without Harden.

[Valor]

If Westbrook misses out because of the Thunder's record - again, I don't think he should, but let's face it, it's a possibility - who would you give it to? I think I'd say Harden, followed by Leonard.

Leonard's performances are more impressive I reckon. Harden has better stats but it is D'Antoni's offense after all.

[Lamrock]

You could make a case for any of the top four guys. I lean towards Harden myself. Like Westbrook, he puts up extremely gaudy stats and gets a lot of triple doubles. I'd take Harden's superior efficiency over the extra couple rebounds Westbrook gets to average a triple double. His defense isn't very good but neither is Westbrook's.

Is it fair to knock Westbrook for the Thunder's record? Maybe not, but that's just how MVP goes. Can't retroactively give Kobe the 2006 MVP. It's worth noting that Russ is only able to play hero ball to such a degree because of the lack of talent around him. Maybe it's a stupid argument, but it doesn't matter because I don't get a vote.

Kawhi has the textbook MVP resume, but given Westbrook and Harden having historic seasons as well as far more charisma, I don't see the media giving it to Leonard this year. I wouldn't mind him winning it, given his play on both ends of the floor. However, he's nowhere near the playmaker Harden, Westbrook or LeBron are.

LeBron is LeBron. He's great as always, and while there's nobody I'd take over playoff LeBron, he hasn't had quite as impressive a season as the other three.

If I had a fifth place vote, I'd give it to Rudy Gobert, because he's that good

[Andrew]

It's worth noting that Russ is only able to play hero ball to such a degree because of the lack of talent around him. Maybe it's a stupid argument, but it doesn't matter because I don't get a vote.

I get where you're coming from, but to me that's kind of like the old "he puts up good stats on a bad team" argument. He has more opportunity to play hero ball than others might, but he also pulls it off and against the same competition as everyone else. There are other stars on talent-thin rosters who don't have eye-popping numbers and aren't carrying their teams to records as good as the Thunder's. Speaking of better records, couldn't similar logic be applied to the MVP candidates on teams with more wins than the Thunder, ie. don't they only have better records because they have superior teammates?

In terms of efficiency, what metric are we using these days? I'm just wondering, as Westbrook is actually leading the league in PER.

[Lamrock]

Valid points. I'd have Westbrook as my second place vote but I'll take gaudy stats on a mid-50's win team over gaudy stats on a mid-40's win team in the MVP context.

My favorite (admittedly dated) efficiency metrics are true shooting percentage and win shares.

[NovU]

Don't forget the ORtg. Anything over 120 is godly, over 15 is definite superstar, over 110 is a rocker. Harden's is at 116 and Westbrook at 112 at the moment.

Westbrook's PER is nice but he has historical 41.8% usage rate compared to modest(?) Harden's 34.3%. I don't think I've seen that number before. More the use of possession, more you will create something which pads your PER.

Still Westbrook's triple double avg is nice. My heart says Westy but my brain says Harden, for the MVP.

[Andrew]

Harden's definitely a worthy candidate, and I agree that it always looks a little better when the MVP is from a 50+ win team, as that's tradition. But hey, it has happened before, and we've also seen an entire starting five be named Player of the Week before, so we're seeing a change in the way we think about these things.

[air gordon]

Don't forget the ORtg. Anything over 120 is godly, over 15 is definite superstar, over 110 is a rocker. Harden's is at 116 and Westbrook at 112 at the moment.

Westbrook's PER is nice but he has historical 41.8% usage rate compared to modest(?) Harden's 34.3%. I don't think I've seen that number before. More the use of possession, more you will create something which pads your PER.

Still Westbrook's triple double avg is nice. My heart says Westy but my brain says Harden, for the MVP.

I am curious of what Lenard's numbers would be if he had same usage as those and also afforded the luxury of not being the defensive juggernaut

Big O didn't win the mvp the year he averaged a triple double. Just saying

[Andrew]

Well, the year The Big O averaged that triple-double, Wilt also averaged 50.4 ppg and 25.7 rpg in 48.5 mpg, incredible and historic numbers in their own right.

[Sauru]

Well, the year The Big O averaged that triple-double, Wilt also averaged 50.4 ppg and 25.7 rpg in 48.5 mpg, incredible and historic numbers in their own right.

he didnt win the damn award either. how the hell do you go for 50/25 and not win MVP?

[Andrew]

Bill Russell, that's how.

[Phil89]

Westbrook is now tied with Oscar on 41. He only needs 16 total assists in the final 5 games to confirm the triple-double season

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[Phil89]

Westbrook may well have sealed the MVP against Memphis tonight. 45p/9r/10a/5s (tied career-high 8 threes). Clutch three pointers to win the game again.

Seventh time this season that he has been an assist or rebound short of a triple-double.


Amazing stats aside, I think it's more impressive that he has dragged this OKC team to within 10 wins of their total from last season, despite losing Durant and Ibaka.

[Andrew]

Amazing stats aside, I think it's more impressive that he has dragged this OKC team to within 10 wins of their total from last season, despite losing Durant and Ibaka.

I agree. The fact that he's also done something historically significant at the same time seals the deal for me.

[NovU]

Had a brief discussion with Gobert for MVP crowd the other day. Westy's teammates regressed to let Westy shine outright that includes Kanter, Oladipo, etc. But Gobert is a team booster and the best big man in the league, tremendously helping Hayward look like a max player.

I kinda see the point though. Other superstars are conscious enough about team effort, great example being LBJ.

[Andrew]

I don't know about that. That seems like it's selling Hayward a little short.

[Jackal]

Not to mention selling Westbrook short. The guy is literally carrying that team. Without him they would be lottery bound.

[Phil89]

Harden has been amazing this season, but how can you deny Westbrook now?


He has history by himself now with 42. It's ridiculous to think that he could have theoretically reached 50 for the season with all those games where he only missed out by the odd assist or rebound.

phpBB [video]

He got the record in style too. His third 50-point triple-double of the season, super clutch again. 50p/16r/10a (17-32 shooting, only 2 turnovers) and the game-winning contested three.

phpBB [video]

[Andrew]

I can't see him not winning it now. The only real argument against him is the unofficial tradition/requirement of the team winning at least 50 games. However, there's the historical precedent with an all-time great in Moses Malone, and the Thunder aren't that far off 50; indeed, they can still finish 48-34. Going back to what I said before, to achieve something so historically significant from an individual standpoint, while carrying the team so often in the clutch and finishing less than ten games worse off despite losing Durant and Ibaka...it's an incredible performance, a standout season, and a sign of how valuable he is to the team. Very worthy MVP credentials.

[benji]

Well, the year The Big O averaged that triple-double, Wilt also averaged 50.4 ppg and 25.7 rpg in 48.5 mpg, incredible and historic numbers in their own right.

he didnt win the damn award either. how the hell do you go for 50/25 and not win MVP?

The players voted for the award until 1980 when it switched to broadcasters and sportswriters.

[Dee4Three]

Russell Westbrook was the best player in the NBA this season, the fact that the Thunder almost won 50 games, after losing Durant, while battling injuries from Kanter and Oladipo.... it blows my mind. You take Westbrook off that team, and they maybe win 15 games, maybe.

He did everything for them, and the players on his team gush about him, they love him. You can tell they consider him a great leader, how can you not follow a guy like Westbrook who wants to win so bad, and lays it on the line every single night, taking no games off?

If he doesn't win it, I will be a sad guy.