Kobe asks to be traded-Then takes it back-Wants out again

LMAO @ the Kobe soap opera. Maybe he wants the attention, or maybe he's pressing the front office to make a trade for another superstar no matter what (that means, trading Bynum, Odom or whoever they need).

He tells the media there is absolutely nothing LA can do to get him back next year, now he says he wants to stay. The below statement is incredible accurate.

LMAO @ the Kobe soap opera. Maybe he wants the attention

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Kobe isn't the guy to build around, he's like a Dwade.

Kobe won rings because of Shaq.
Dwade won a ring because of Shaq.

I don't see LA getting another guy similar to Shaq in the near future, the only hope for kobe is to go somewhere with a guy like Shaq (like dwight howard or something like that)

That would be some dream come true for me. Kobe in Orlando - that'd be just incredible. But a little non realistic really

made by me...
looks shitty but kobe in CHI.

That would be some dream come true for me. Kobe in Orlando - that'd be just incredible. But a little non realistic really

Yeah unrealistic, I meant he can't be built around, but can complement a guy a franchise can build around (like DH)

You act like Kobe is all about statistics, being the man and building his legacy as one of the greatest individual players of all time rather than winning.

Kobe would not have just said "Oh no" to missing the playoffs or losing in the first round. We all know he has incredible drive, probably the most of any player since Michael Jordan. Cut him some slack, if he didn't care so much about losing and only cares about being the 'man' and scoring points, he wouldn't be asking for a trade. he is in the perfect situation to be the 'man' right there in LA, why would he openly welcome a trade?

The guy wants to win, and since Shaq left (who the Lakers management said they were not willing pay, not Kobe's fault) he has been given this team that is basically, well, Lamar Odom and not much else. The front office had the pieces to pull a blockbuster trade this year. They gave away an All Star in Caron Butler for one of the worst picks in NBA history. They have made bad decisions, and theres no hiding that the Lakers are going no where right now, and wont be for a long time. That's obvious when you draft a 17 year old center.

Kobe wants to win. However he won't, no matter how much he does, as a Laker with this current team. That's why he wants out.

its called sarcasm.

of course kobe wants to win, but he wants to the win as the man. now that he obviously can't he is backtracking.

not talking to anyone in particular, but I just thought how convinient it is that kobe has always had an excuse. when accused of rape, he says "look! shaq has a mistress!" when the lakers lost, "shaq is fat!" when shaq leaves, "the lakers kept telling me shaq was fat!" when the present lakers lose, "the lakers management is fat!"

Wow.

well it seemed like you thought I was avoiding answers, so I saw fit to answer every conceivable quote. i am not deliberately trying to avoid answers, as I am sure you are not, but its not like either of us do not miss things, or sometimes don't respond to certan points.

Steve Nash was the last player the added to become a contender. Amare, Marion, Joe Johnson were already Suns before he and Quentin Richardson came to Pheonix.

are you telling me that steve nash is not the core superstar that team is run through?

I respected your opinion about the Lakers owing Shaq more respect then they showed him. I felt they were far too defensive. Ok shaq did say "pay me motherfucker" to Jerry Buss (which was incredibly stupid when you consider the risk/reward factor), but Shaq was amazing in L.A.

I still respect your stance on what happened there.

But I can't respect your contradiction with Kobe here.

Kobe took the blame for Shaq being traded. Even Jerry Buss said publicly that it was his decision to trade O'Neal. So it really can't be disputed that it wasn't Kobe's fault Shaq got dealt. Even if it was Jerry Buss choosing between the two, it would still not be Kobes fault.

I'd like you to show me something about Kobe indirectly taking shots at everyone in the organization. I really don't want hear say or ex-players with their own agenda's.

But even if you can produce some evidence of that, surely you have to acknowledge the guy you defend(Shaq) did the exact same thing you blast Kobe for allegedly doing. Before Phil Jackson came in, Shaq was quoted saying to many then current teamates that the Lakers will never win with Kobe on the team.

I don't care if you hate the way he plays, or if you hate his arrogance or his self centerd way of thinking. You can't justify your double standard here.

a double standard is when i take a different position on a similar occurence. there is no double standard here. I am criticizing the fashion of kobe's trade request, which is completely different from the fashion of shaq's trade request.

are you also telling me that by kobe very basically saying "I want to get traded because my team sucks" he is not throwing his team under the boat. Where is the double standard here when you say that kobe needs teammates to win, but when he does win his teammates are beside the matter? You tell me.

What is he sposed to do? Off the court, Kobe is responsible for Kobe. He isn't Shaq's father. He doesn't have to go into Jerry Buss and say "pay shaq, motherfucker" like Shaq said to him while he was at courtside.

Shaq dug his own grave in LA. Kobe not demanding that shaq get an extension is not the same as him demanding shaq to be traded.

no he doesn't have to. but sometimes what you don't say is more important than what you do.

for example, if someone accuses you of murder, and you know your mother (or whoever) was a witness and knows you're innocent, but doesn't say anything at your trial - is she not at fault because she didn't say anything?

Are you saying he's not demanding a trade because of the quality of his teamates?

I am saying that he is demanding a trade because of the quality of his teammates, which is exactly the same as "demand[ing] a trade because the laker management seem[s] content with this current laker squad."

I personally wouldnt call it a "failed rebuilding."

So you think Kobe only opted out to get the Laker management to crawl to him. If thats the case, do you also think that:

although these are completely different occurences to that which we were inititally discussing (regarding free agency), I'll try to answer them.

Shaq only demanded a trade to get the Lakers to crawl to him?

yes, but unfortunately it didn't work.

Karl Malone only retired to get Laker management to crawl to him?

no he was old, and he knew the lakers had no chance of winning a championship without shaq.

Allen Iverson demanded a trade to get Philly management to crawl to him?

no. his trade request is similar to kobe's in many ways, though the fashion of it, though ridiculous as well, was not quite as. I respect both trade requests for what they are, i don't respect that it throws each players teams under the boat, and I don't respect how they were handled. does the team need to get better? sure. but, also, at the same time, are YOU part of the team? yes.

i wouldn't build a team around iverson either.

Steve Nash opted out in 2004 to get Dallas management to crawl to him?

yes, he wanted fair value in regards to money, dallas wouldn't give it to him. In kobe's case he could get no more money anywhere else, the only reason he would do so are the reasons stated.

Him saying he wants to be traded, but also saying he loves LA doesnt mean he backed off his word.

Its called a distinction without a difference. Like someone hypothetically saying I love gender equal rights, but those bitches should be cooking and cleaning. again politics 101. also he backed off more later, i.e., the phil jackson talk.

They're absolute idiots if they feel Andrew Bynum is too high value for Jason Kidd. I don't think there's a big market for KG or Jermaine O'Neal. Chicago has had plenty of chances to go after Garnett and they haven't. Who else would be interested?

one, it was not bynum for kidd straight up.

two, kg and jo are not actively being shopped. meaning they are demanding HIGH prices. don't think gms haven't asked, but the price, right now, is too high. the lakers are not the only team that are looking to get better.

So ok, if Garnett/ J.O./ Kidd are available and hypothetically the Lakers do indeed get one of those players, and the Lakers reach say the conference finals, are you saying you would not have built around Kobe?

You can have the greatest players of all time and put them by themselves, give them scrubs and say when it fails "well i wouldnt have built around them either".

even if that happens I still wouldn't build around kobe the way his game is now. there is no great leader there, and he plays the blame game too often. building around a superstar, imo, is about building an identity around a similar personality.

if that changes, if he changes, i'll be happy to change my stance. and if he does change, that change will directly result in winning, not the other way around.

Convenient.

red herring.

How is it not? Think about free agents. Think about trades. Think about drafting. Every team is looking out for themself in one way or another. Teams are trying to do any other teams any favours.

i guess you are, in general, right. but if so its no different than anything else in life.

The lakers pretty much built around Shaq and Kobe and it worked. But staying true with the comparison with Shaq, how many guys have complimented him exactly? Or better yet, how many guys have complimented Shaq better then the evil Kobe Bryant?

penny and dwade ring a bell?

there is a reason free agents flock to shaq led teams for lesser money and lesser roles. its not just because of his looks.

They fucked that up and dont seem to even be motivated to even attempt to bring in someone who could help Kobe.

Think about West. Do you think he said "well shit, theres no way we can get kobe" in 1996? Of course not. He went out there and got a deal done.

By them saying they are satisfied with the roster and there won't be any changes, then yes I think they are short changing themselves. Remember, these are the same guys who traded Shaq.

i don't recall mangagement saying they were 'satisfied.' and even so, again, tell me what they can do RIGHT NOW? their best trade bait is injured and off to surgery, their draft pick is mediocore, they have no cap room. What are they supposed to say? What are they supposed to do RIGHT NOW? they can't do anything right now, but when they can they will. It's like a little kid saying I want an xbox RIGHT NOW!

again, what are they supposed to say? I am sure they are trying to do something. did west say i have no faith in our team? did west say I want to trade every one of those sonofabitches? no. by doing so you seem desperate and undervalue your players greatly - not only personally, but more specifically in terms of trade value.

Thinking back to that draft, why would they be so against going after and bringing Derek Fisher back? He could help them immediately, and Utah if they want to get anywhere they will have to have a legitimate shooting guard.

what do you mean?

Amazing.

thank you.

the steve nash thing is stupid. dallas didnt want to pay him what he is clearly worth. nash leaving dallas cant be compared to this kobe thing at all.


btw magius, amazingly, i agree with almost everything you are saying so far in this thread

The more and more I think about it, Magius and I should do the open court feature here at NLSC. But back on topic:

not talking to anyone in particular, but I just thought how convinient it is that kobe has always had an excuse. when accused of rape, he says "look! shaq has a mistress!" when the lakers lost, "shaq is fat!" when shaq leaves, "the lakers kept telling me shaq was fat!" when the present lakers lose, "the lakers management is fat!"

To Kobes defense, he does take alot of criticism. Its the same way Penny used to be criticised, and Vince Carter used to get it too. Its the backlash. The media creates these huge expectations and hype around young players and when they don't live upto them, thats when the backlash hits.

are you telling me that steve nash is not the core superstar that team is run through?

That's an interesting question. I think Steve Nash is the most irreplaceable guy on that Suns team. But is he the core, like Jordan was the core to the bulls or bird was the core to the celtics? I have to say no.

And you cant say the suns were built around Nash when he was thier final piece. Thats like saying the 2004 pistons were built around Rasheed Wallace.

a double standard is when i take a different position on a similar occurence. there is no double standard here. I am criticizing the fashion of kobe's trade request, which is completely different from the fashion of shaq's trade request.

are you also telling me that by kobe very basically saying "I want to get traded because my team sucks" he is not throwing his team under the boat. Where is the double standard here when you say that kobe needs teammates to win, but when he does win his teammates are beside the matter? You tell me.

A trade demand is a trade demand. Scottie Pippen did a very similar thing with Barkley to get traded, and you didn't hear a word of backlash for Pip.

Kobe is like Terrell Owens: It doesnt matter he says or does, there will always be criticism surrounding it.

for example, if someone accuses you of murder, and you know your mother (or whoever) was a witness and knows you're innocent, but doesn't say anything at your trial - is she not at fault because she didn't say anything?

Whoa easy. Shaq dug his own grave in LA, and Laker management already had their mind made up. Kobe is not Shaq's mother. Shaq was not on trial for murder. And considering the past relationship I can totally understand why Kobe couldnt care less if Shaq was traded.

But that still doesnt mean Kobe demanded him to be dealt.

I personally wouldnt call it a "failed rebuilding."

So would you call it a successful one?

Shaq only demanded a trade to get the Lakers to crawl to him?

yes, but unfortunately it didn't work

Your initial criticism of Kobes trade demand was he wanted to lakers to crawl to him, that was his motive. Now can you start to see where the contradiction and double standard lies? You say Shaq was justified to demand a trade, but Kobe wasnt. Yet you feel their motives were identical in your mind.

Thats a double standard.

Karl Malone only retired to get Laker management to crawl to him?

no he was old, and he knew the lakers had no chance of winning a championship without shaq.

Agreed. But one could argue he was just waiting for the Lakers to crawl to him, and they didn't he walked away.

Quote:

Allen Iverson demanded a trade to get Philly management to crawl to him?

no. his trade request is similar to kobe's in many ways, though the fashion of it, though ridiculous as well, was not quite as. I respect both trade requests for what they are, i don't respect that it throws each players teams under the boat, and I don't respect how they were handled. does the team need to get better? sure. but, also, at the same time, are YOU part of the team? yes.

Of course, but sometimes you have to be realistic and not be so Kevin Garnettish. And sometimes its in both parties interests that they part ways. Philly is in a better position to rebuild now then if they had Iverson still.

Theres nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade.

yes, he wanted fair value in regards to money, dallas wouldn't give it to him. In kobe's case he could get no more money anywhere else, the only reason he would do so are the reasons stated.

So it's justified to demand a trade or leave via free agency to persue more money, but its not ok to do that if you want to be in better position to win?

one, it was not bynum for kidd straight up.

The inclusion of Bynum is what stopped the deal.

two, kg and jo are not actively being shopped. meaning they are demanding HIGH prices. don't think gms haven't asked, but the price, right now, is too high. the lakers are not the only team that are looking to get better.

Which makes the failed aquision of Jason Kidd even worse. They could of gotten him at an unbelievably cheap price and they couldn't pull the trigger.

even if that happens I still wouldn't build around kobe the way his game is now. there is no great leader there, and he plays the blame game too often. building around a superstar, imo, is about building an identity around a similar personality.

Adding one last peice means they would of built around Kobe.

if that changes, if he changes, i'll be happy to change my stance. and if he does change, that change will directly result in winning, not the other way around.

How many laker games have you seen since shaq was dealt? I often see him talking to Smush Parker when he's struggling, offering encouragment. He did the same with Bynum before that game against shaq when he got a dunk on O'Neal. He's helped Walton and Kwame develop. If you say he hasnt improved as a leader, then you're incredibly misguided.

penny and dwade ring a bell?

Wade won a championship virtually by himself. Penny never did that. Shaq and Kobe won together, complimenting each other. And 3 titles together is better then one failed finals appearance for penny and one championship with wade.

Nobody complimented Shaq better then Kobe.

The more and more I think about it, Magius and I should do the open court feature here at NLSC. But back on topic:

i would be interested in that actually

The more and more I think about it, Magius and I should do the open court feature here at NLSC. But back on topic:

what is that?

To Kobes defense, he does take alot of criticism. Its the same way Penny used to be criticised, and Vince Carter used to get it too. Its the backlash. The media creates these huge expectations and hype around young players and when they don't live upto them, thats when the backlash hits.

in vince carter and kobe's case sometimes for good reason. i haven't really followed penny that much, so I'll leave that in the air.

and of course that is the nature of being a great player, to handle pressure. if no one expected anything of them then they wouldn't be great. in terms of the nba, expectation is a direct result of being a great player, and in turn should be considered a compliment.

I like to think that my own criticism doesn't result from expectation, but of course, if I were Freud, that would be impossible, considering I acknowledge that kobe is a great player.

That's an interesting question. I think Steve Nash is the most irreplaceable guy on that Suns team. But is he the core, like Jordan was the core to the bulls or bird was the core to the celtics? I have to say no.

And you cant say the suns were built around Nash when he was thier final piece. Thats like saying the 2004 pistons were built around Rasheed Wallace.

i disagree, i think nash is integral to phoenix's offense, without him it turns into complete dissaray.

also the role players brought in were brought in to complement nash's game and the system phoenix is able to implement with him running their offense. i think that is building enough. you cannot say the same of sheed.

A trade demand is a trade demand. Scottie Pippen did a very similar thing with Barkley to get traded, and you didn't hear a word of backlash for Pip.

again it was the fashion of the trade request that i was initially criticizing, not the trade request itself.

a trade request is not simply a trade request. karl malone being traded from utah is not the same as iverson being traded from philly.

Kobe is like Terrell Owens: It doesnt matter he says or does, there will always be criticism surrounding it.

actually it does matter what he is saying or doing, because that leads to the criticsm. Its not like he simply said "hello" and I saw fit to criticize it; it's not that he asked to get traded, its how he asked (or didnt.... or did) that is puzzling to say to the least, and, I think, speaks volumes to his character.

it is true that some people blindly criticize kobe, but I like to think I have valid reasons to back my criticism.

don't you think it is unfair to say that just because he has been voraciously criticized in the past, perhaps sometimes unfairly, therefore all following criticism must be void, and, in essence, be result of senseless persecution?

Whoa easy. Shaq dug his own grave in LA, and Laker management already had their mind made up. Kobe is not Shaq's mother. Shaq was not on trial for murder. And considering the past relationship I can totally understand why Kobe couldnt care less if Shaq was traded.

But that still doesnt mean Kobe demanded him to be dealt.

again, sometimes what you don't say is more important than what you do say.

you have two players with a very openly bad relationship, probably among the worst in nba history, one is coming into free agency, and hasn't resigned, opting to test the waters. Kobe doesn't have to say anything, actions speak louder than words.

So would you call it a successful one?

i wouldn't call a team building around kobe rebuilding. even if I personally wouldn't build around him, if you have him you are not rebuilding.

Your initial criticism of Kobes trade demand was he wanted to lakers to crawl to him, that was his motive. Now can you start to see where the contradiction and double standard lies? You say Shaq was justified to demand a trade, but Kobe wasnt. Yet you feel their motives were identical in your mind.

Thats a double standard.

no, my initial criticsm of kobe's trade demand was the fashion of the trade demand. I said nothing initially about him wanting the lakers to crawl to him.

again I wasn't even concerned about his motives to begin with...... but, i'm curious, how do i feel their motives were identical? i think shaq wanted out for money, I think kobe wants out because he doesn't want to shoulder the blame.

There is no double standard between these two very different instances.

Agreed. But one could argue he was just waiting for the Lakers to crawl to him, and they didn't he walked away.

I guess if you really wanted to you could.

Of course, but sometimes you have to be realistic and not be so Kevin Garnettish. And sometimes its in both parties interests that they part ways. Philly is in a better position to rebuild now then if they had Iverson still.

Theres nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade.

exactly, although i may not respect it, you are right, there is nothing wrong. the point is that kobe is not calling a spade a spade imho.

So it's justified to demand a trade or leave via free agency to persue more money, but its not ok to do that if you want to be in better position to win?

It is the fashion of the request, or whatever I'm supposed to call it, i am criticizing and what it says about the player, not the justification of the demand.

Which makes the failed aquision of Jason Kidd even worse. They could of gotten him at an unbelievably cheap price and they couldn't pull the trigger.

i'm not sure it would've been such a great deal personally. kidd needs to control the ball, kobe needs to control the ball, kidd doesn't extend the d with his shot. I'm not sure the lakers would've been any better off than jersey now is - which barely got into the playoffs in the EAST. while at the same time trading a bluechip big, and pretty much the future of their frontcourt. I think if you trade bynum you save it for a big, la doesn't need another wing more than they need a big. It's not neccessary for the triangle to have a great pg, but they do need someone to handle the paint at the very least defensively.

How many laker games have you seen since shaq was dealt? I often see him talking to Smush Parker when he's struggling, offering encouragment. He did the same with Bynum before that game against shaq when he got a dunk on O'Neal. He's helped Walton and Kwame develop. If you say he hasnt improved as a leader, then you're incredibly misguided.

sure he's improved; i never said he detoriated or even stagnated. there wasn't much to improve on though.

and he's still not a leader i'd build around just because he talks to his teammates now.

Wade won a championship virtually by himself. Penny never did that. Shaq and Kobe won together, complimenting each other. And 3 titles together is better then one failed finals appearance for penny and one championship with wade.

its called inside out basketball, wade did not win a championship virtually, physically, or any other kind of "lly" by himself. Was he the finals mvp? yes? but to say he won it by himself is misguided.

o'neal and wade won a championship together, just like shaq and kobe won a championship together. and I have never said that shaq won a championship alone - only that he was, in my mind, unarguably the more important player. In the case of miami wade was the more important player, the finals mvp, but shaq was neccessary. In the case of la shaq was the more important player, the the three time finals mvp, but kobe was neccessary.

Nobody complimented Shaq better then Kobe.

that may be true, but the point is so many players, stars and roles, compliment shaq. can you say the same about kobe?

Nobody complimented Shaq better then Kobe.

that may be true, but the point is so many players, stars and roles, compliment shaq. can you say the same about kobe?

Kobe hasn't played with enough good players for that argument to be valid.

Imagine Kobe playing with a post player with simular talent to a D-Wade or Penny in his prime - don't you think he would be succesfull in that situation?

Let's hope he gets JO next season and we'll see.

You don't honestly believe JO will be the answer to their problems do you?

He's habitually injured. The Lakers will still need a point guard, small forward, a center, and a bench (because Kwame isn't cutting it, and you're trading away your future in Bynum).

Odom means more to the Lakers than you may think. With their horrible PG situation there is really no better ball distributor than Lamar...

Lakers need a complete overhaul. By this time next year they will be in no better of a situation.

i think odom gets a bad rep and its undeserved. for some reason people expect him to play to the level of shaq. i dont understand that at all. odom helps the team alot but no one sees it, they just throw it all on him. the lakers as a team are not that great. i mean they are good and can win alot of games but they play out west and its not easy there. they nearly beat the suns last season and ran into them again this year. the only way i could see the lakers getting out of round 1 this season is if they happened to get to the 5th seed then they might have had a chance. even then they would just lose in round 2. good team but trading everyone for 1 player wont help them.

Trading Bynum for O'Neal is plain dumb. That's work thrown away. Kareem should just leave if he's traded.

I hope he isn't traded. I want West back, I know West wouldn't trade him, Kupchak just could.

We need KG not JO.
Odom,Kwame and Radman. for KG and for some draft pic would be nice.

Nobody complimented Shaq better then Kobe.

that may be true, but the point is so many players, stars and roles, compliment shaq. can you say the same about kobe?

Kobe hasn't played with enough good players for that argument to be valid.

Imagine Kobe playing with a post player with simular talent to a D-Wade or Penny in his prime - don't you think he would be succesfull in that situation?

Let's hope he gets JO next season and we'll see.

their are maybe one or two, if you're lucky, maybe three, post players at the calibre of shaq or with comparable talent to dwade and penny per a generation.

I don't have to imagine, I've already seen it. But the chances of another shaq coming around are very, very slim. And the chances of the lakers getting him is equally slim.

are you telling me that you think it is easier to build around the wing, rather than through the post?

the argument is not whether another shaq would compliment kobe, the argument is whether players, in general, regardless of whether they are stars or not, compliment either one more.

Nobody complimented Shaq better then Kobe.

that may be true, but the point is so many players, stars and roles, compliment shaq. can you say the same about kobe?

Kobe hasn't played with enough good players for that argument to be valid.

Imagine Kobe playing with a post player with simular talent to a D-Wade or Penny in his prime - don't you think he would be succesfull in that situation?

Let's hope he gets JO next season and we'll see.

their are maybe one or two, if you're lucky, maybe three, post players at the calibre of shaq or with comparable talent to dwade and penny per a generation.

I don't have to imagine, I've already seen it. But the chances of another shaq coming around are very, very slim. And the chances of the lakers getting him is equally slim.

are you telling me that you think it is easier to build around the wing, rather than through the post?

the argument is not whether another shaq would compliment kobe, the argument is whether players, in general, regardless of whether they are stars or not, compliment either one more.

I am just saying that Kobe deserves a chance to play with a great post player - and I think JO fits that description. Sure, the Lakers will still have a thin lineup, but having two of the best players in the game and a weak supporting cast still beats having 1 of the best players in the game, a good forward and a weak supporting cast.

Sure, trading Bynum is short sightet, but Kobe has said that he wants to win now rather than later, so the Lakers has to do something drastic. If Kobe demands a trade (without taking it back an hour later), the Lakers could end up in an even worse situation.

The alternative is to trade Kobe now for some young talent.

jeez magius and Matthew, those are some huge arsed posts

i still think making the trade for oneal will hurt the lakers if they have to lose both odom and bynum but if thats what it takes to make kobe happy and shut him up then ya kinda have to do it. i would just go to kobe and kinda say "are you sure this is what you want" that way when it blows up in his face he cant start pointing his finger again, though i bet he still would

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archi ... wants_out/

More Kobe-drama from unnamed realgm sources.

I am really hoping forsome blokbusters this summer.

A blockbuster trade could be great but which team has enough good players to trade for Bryant BUT also to keep in order to win a championship ?

Knicks :
Bulls :
Detroit

Lakers can have Billups & Hamilton if we get Kobe.

i still think making the trade for oneal will hurt the lakers if they have to lose both odom and bynum but if thats what it takes to make kobe happy and shut him up then ya kinda have to do it. i would just go to kobe and kinda say "are you sure this is what you want" that way when it blows up in his face he cant start pointing his finger again, though i bet he still would

His recent comments that he still wants to leave even while the JON trade is in the works pretty much tells me he doesn't think trading Odom/Bynum for JON is going propel LA to a championship...and nobody else believes that either because it's basically a fair trade.

LA better be careful here, there's nothing to stop Kobe from reiterating his desire to leave NEXT year either, or even even next trade deadline in the spring. LA can force Kobe to stay for 1 more full year, the year after they have to trade him or let him walk for nothing as his contracts ends in Player Option, not Team Option. If they trade Odom/Bynum for JON, Kobe can still leave in 2 years and now they don't even have Bynum to work with...once JON really slows down their future is Jordan Farmar.

I think LA should see remember the mishandling of the Vince Carter situation. Toronto basically forced him to stay and just wouldn't trade him, and it got to the point where they had to trade or him he would walk for nothing, and they got Aaron Williams & some draft picks for him (which netted i think Stephen Graham). Had they traded him sooner, when the VC hype was hot, they could have gotten a VERY good player for Carter.

Kobe's game is very much based on athleticism, even on his jump shot. He doesn't really lose his man running through screens (Rip can do this forever IMO) or shaking them with a dribble...he just elevates over them...and i'm seeing him get blocked/defended a little better every year. I don't think Kobe is gonna keep trucking into the 30s at this elite level like Kidd or Duncan, who are mostly mental/skill players.
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great read, pretty much sums it all up. the lakers cant give away everything for 1 player it just wont work. imo the lakers may want to consider trading kobe, then again, many fans will probably hate them and it could come back to bite them in the ass

but then again, despite all the Kobe fanboys and all the Kobe lovers out there, there will ALWAYS be Laker fans. I for one would go back to being a big-time Laker fan like I was in the 90's if Kobe (along with Kwame, Cook, Sasha, Mihm) were gone. I mean, what would people do? become Clippers fans? I don't think so. The clips would get a few fans but not many.

just look at the Celtics... they've sucked for a long time and they still have a great fan base.