Best in the game (NOW)

[YoG!]

Not many people include Gilbert Arenas in there top 10 while I think he's atleast at number 10 at the moment

[---]

Hes very good, but I don't think hes quite there yet.

My List:

1. Kobe Bryant
2. LeBron James
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Dwyane Wade
5. Tim Duncan
6. Dirk Nowitzki
7. Allen Iverson
8. Paul Pierce
9. Elton Brand
10. Tracy McGrady

Just Missed: Carmelo Anthony, Steve Nash, Shawn Marion, Shaquille O'Neal, Gilbert Arenas, etc.

[J@3]

I like that list... I'd probably shift a few guys around and probably replace McGrady with someone else, but otherwise I'd go for that.

[Riot]

It is, check it out:

When asked if he’d want to leave Minnesota if the team didn’t improve, Garnett said, “I got to…If you’re not working towards a championship, then why are we in this? I’m in it to win, man, I’m not in it to be coming back talking about next year. I’m 30. I’ve probably got 4 to 5 years, you know what I’m saying? My clock is ticking, man. I’m almost like a woman who’s trying to get pregnant. My years are limited, so my clock is definitely ticking.”

That good enough for you? And it's not so easy to boom get a trade whenever you want. KG is an investment to Kevin McHale and he's not going to give him away.

No that isn't good enough for me. He said that along with a lot of quotes. You realize that a few weeks earlier he said he was "in it for the long haul" and that if he demands a trade he could consider himself a "coward"? Garnett is emotional player who hates to lose. He wants to stay here and he wants to make it right here. If he wanted a trade he could get it. The point of the matter is this...he doesn't want a trade and he wants to stay here.

Plus, the whole point of the argument was you saying he gave up on the team and tanked. He did totally the opposite.

[sdot_thadon]

Just wait and see this season, T-Wolves made additions this summer, but I'm not sure thats enough to reach KG happiness, he's trying to give them a chance to do right by him. Unfortunately in Minnesota he will never win, nor AI in philly.

[Dramacydal]

i wudnt even trade shawn marion for KG

Thank god you're not a GM and never will be.

[BigKaboom2]

1. Shaquille O'Neal (Wondering how this is disputed - if not for Wade, he would average 28 and 14 and he's still unstoppable just because of his girth)

2. Kevin Garnett (Also somewhat impossible to debate)

3. Lebron James (Stats last year were absurd)

4. Dirk Nowitzki (Unstoppable from mid-range)

5. Shawn Marion (Does everything)

6. Elton Brand (Best pure post player last year)

7. Andrei Kirilenko (Does more of everything than anyone else)

8. Kobe Bryant (Any of the guys before him could have achieved his PPG average last year if no one else was taking any shots, IMO - Lakers games were so boring I couldn't even watch them. I'm definitely not putting Iverson on this list despite his scoring average, and Kobe has a more foolish offensive philosophy than Iverson. At least A.I. gets a good deal of assists, but the Lakers are going nowhere when they've only got one consistent offensive threat)

9. Dwyane Wade (Just for being one of the first to fully exploit the strategy of getting all the other team's bigs in foul trouble and shooting freebies all day long)

10. Yao Ming (So skilled for his height)

[Weiland]

KG = emotional? so what?im pretty sure majority of the nba players are emotional...

[Laxation]

1. Shaquille O'Neal (Wondering how this is disputed - if not for Wade, he would average 28 and 14 and he's still unstoppable just because of his girth)

Are you really this retarded, or are you just saying this to create an argument. This is a serious question btw.

2. Kevin Garnett (Also somewhat impossible to debate)

Impossible, or you just cant do it since you have no idea

8. Kobe Bryant (Any of the guys before him could have achieved his PPG average last year if no one else was taking any shots

If it was so easy to put up 35ppg, a LOT more people would be doing it.

10. Yao Ming (So skilled for his height)

Just because he is tall it doesnt make him any better. Thats like trying to justify Nate Robinsons win in the dunk contest...

[Amphatoast]

why even respond to such a post. After reading line 1 you know he knows shit about ball.

[sdot_thadon]

1. Shaquille O'Neal (Wondering how this is disputed - if not for Wade, he would average 28 and 14 and he's still unstoppable just because of his girth)

2. Kevin Garnett (Also somewhat impossible to debate)

3. Lebron James (Stats last year were absurd)

4. Dirk Nowitzki (Unstoppable from mid-range)

5. Shawn Marion (Does everything)

6. Elton Brand (Best pure post player last year)

7. Andrei Kirilenko (Does more of everything than anyone else)

8. Kobe Bryant (Any of the guys before him could have achieved his PPG average last year if no one else was taking any shots, IMO - Lakers games were so boring I couldn't even watch them. I'm definitely not putting Iverson on this list despite his scoring average, and Kobe has a more foolish offensive philosophy than Iverson. At least A.I. gets a good deal of assists, but the Lakers are going nowhere when they've only got one consistent offensive threat)

9. Dwyane Wade (Just for being one of the first to fully exploit the strategy of getting all the other team's bigs in foul trouble and shooting freebies all day long)

10. Yao Ming (So skilled for his height)

wow. Shaq and Yao, I'm from Houston and I love Yao, but don't make me laugh. 3 thumbs down.

[Qmx323]

Shaq is definately no where near himself when he was averaging 28 and 14 back in 2000 or something, He isn't in the top 5 in best individual talent but he is still top 10 in value and affect he has on a team and his surrounding players. (i.e. Heat wasnt a serious contender till shaq come in, and the lakers went from top 3 or 4 teams to the middle tier w/o Shaq.

Kobe still owns though, and he is probably the best individual player in the league. (who else has had a 81 point game? even if it was against the raptors, he literally brought the lakers to the W, when they were down 12-14 at halftime i think)

[air gordon]

It matters when the talent level you are comparing is so close. By the numbers D-wade was prettty close to Bron and Kobe except when it comes to the three-ball, so basically thats their leg-up on Wade. That and maybe defense.

as i said, going off of just individual talent, i give the nod to bryant. but best overall...personally i put more stock into a player who wins the NBA title as hands down the best player on his own team. Larry, Magic, and even Zeke would taunt Jordan for his lack of titles despite his status in the league and popularity with the fans

but hey- i didn't say my list was the best one out there.. feel free to criticize it but not me lol

Riot- enough of the Garnett apologizing aleady sheesh. Dirk is a big man and he almost lead his team to the championship

[sdot_thadon]

but hey- i didn't say my list was the best one out there.. feel free to criticize it but not me lol

Don't get me wrong, I respect your opinion and everyone else's as well.

Riot- enough of the Garnett apologizing aleady sheesh. Dirk is a big man and he almost lead his team to the championship

lol, true. But Dirk was no match for the referees.

[Riot]

Dirk Nowitzki is the only big man who is having much success in the new NBA. However, Garnett is twice the defensive player that Nowitizki is and I believe Garnett is a better all around player. The only advantage Nowitzki has is he is on a more talented team and he has a lot better range than Garnett.

Do you disagree with me that this is now a guard's league? Have you noticed that all the league's top big men (Garnett, O'Neal, O'Neal and Duncan) all had off years? It is because the league is turning itself into a guard's league and big men are being left behind.

[Matthew]

Oh quit complaining about the referees. As AG eluded too, all aggresive offensive players get the benifit of the calls: Kobe does, Magic, Bird, Jordan, they all did. Wade enjoys some calls, but its just a superstar thing. Ben Wallace clearly fouled shaq with that big block in game 5, but his reputation got him a no call.

And riot, the players you listed are all in decline due to injury and age. How is it that Dwight Howard, Yao Ming, Elton Brand, Dirk all had career years?

[Riot]

Yao Ming didn't play that much, Dwight Howard is only in his 2nd or 3rd year so having a career year isn't that impressive, Elton Brand gets most of his points on offensive rebounds and I already said Dirk is the exception.

Garnett is only 29-30 years old and the same is said for Duncan. Jermaine O'Neal is younger than those two.

You obviously did not pay attention to the new rule changes last year because you act as if it is the same game as always. The hand check rule makes it impossible to guard quick perimeter players. That is why guys like Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Iverson, etc are all emerging as the best players in the league and why most big men are being left behind.

[Matthew]

When Yao did play after the ASG though he was impressive. Garnett may "only" be 30, but like Jermaine O'neal, they both came in as tweeners as have been in the for what, 12 seasons now? They aren't in their prime as much as you'd like to believe. Duncan also has played a hell of a lot of basketball the past 4 seasons. 2 Championship seasons, olympics with team usa in 04. He was bound to break down sooner or later.

As for the rule changes, thats simply to combat help defense. Team defense became so good the rules commitee needed to make a change to give the guy driving the lane some hope of getting to the basket without being tackled. Since the 80's, the game has always been about skill, whether your a footer or a 6'4 2 guard. The fact that your trying to blame the rule changes for Garnetts decline is pretty sad. Just face facts, he isnt the same player he was 2 years ago.

[sdot_thadon]

The fact that your trying to blame the rule changes for Garnetts decline is pretty sad. Just face facts, he isnt the same player he was 2 years ago.

Ouch, the truth hurts. I could have sworn the hand-check rule change happend a few years back?

Do you disagree with me that this is now a guard's league?

It has become a guard's league, but that's because quality bigs are few and far between now. And our concept of a good big man is not as great as it used to be.

Oh quit complaining about the referees. As AG eluded too, all aggresive offensive players get the benifit of the calls: Kobe does, Magic, Bird, Jordan, they all did. Wade enjoys some calls, but its just a superstar thing. Ben Wallace clearly fouled shaq with that big block in game 5, but his reputation got him a no call.

I say this not because Wade got the calls, but because Dirk didn't get the same superstar treatment, ie:respect. Dirk had a very strong season and playoffs up until the finals(where he attempted to be agressive but wasn't rewarded)......i almost feel like Cuban screwed his own team.

[shobe81]

1. KOBE BRYANT (This guy is a clone of MJ & skillwise the closest to MJ ever till present and some future! UNSTOPABLE!!! His got the 3's, midrange jumpers, fadeaways, inside penetration, good 1 on 1 defender, when his mad His at his best! This guy has the slager, hart, and is the top of clutch shooters next to: MJ, Bird, and Reggie Miller. Remember clutch is not the last buzzer shot of game, it's also making the big moment shots through out the game, the game changer IMO. I dont care how much people dislike him and bitch about how he is selfish, thats your opinion and is not a matter of fact because you cannot prove that he is selfish. He has proved damn well enough that he can do something with a crappy team nearly wooping the 2nd seeded Suns candy asses (The Rocks term) It's not his fault when he passes the ball to open shooters and they cannot make the shot while he takes the blame as being selfish yet having to bail out his team on nearly every difficult circumstances buzzer-shot. Ok I'll stop talking about him cause I can keep going!


Gap

2. KG - (Doesn't have a good team, he brings hart, energy every time with nearly MVP type performance and numbers.)

3. Lebron James - (Too much hype, everyone keep saying he will be the best of all time, well HIS NOT RIGHT NOW SO UNTIL HE IS THEN DONT OVERRATE HIM.

4. Dirk Nowinzkie (Dirk change your damn last name, so hard to spell (He took his team to the Finals without any "Superstars" on his team, enough said, he is a very good 7ft player, and unstopable on offense.)

5. Tim Duncan (MVP's, 1st NBA teams about every year, fundamentals, offensive machine and a great defender, his game is overlooked A LOT.)

6-10 Wade, Shaq, T-Mac, Iverson, & Yao

6. Wade (is IMO a bit overrated for what people say he is, all he really does well is draw fouls, shoot inside jumpers, and penetrate/attack the basket, somewhat good help defender, but he gets calls too much, come on refs! Also he HAS SHAQ... HELLO!!!

7. Shaq (Still dominant force of the NBA, demands double teams, cant hit a freethrow if his life depended on it but he does bring CHAMPIONSHIPS.)

8. T-MAC (Has soo much talent but injuries and lack of willingness keeps him from hitting the top spot, lets see what he brings to the table this year.)

9. Iverson (For his height, his amazing, speed, skills, defensive steals man, inside penetration ability, playing through pain, and HART!)

10. YAO (Probably the best center right next to or behind Shaq, fundamentally sound, he can hit freethrows, midrange jumpers, good post player but too damn weak!)

11. SHAWN MARRION (This guy is so underrated it's not even funny, just too damn underrated so I had to give him some love.)

[Laxation]

And riot, the players you listed are all in decline due to injury and age.

Have you noticed that all the league's top big men (Garnett, O'Neal, O'Neal and Duncan) all had off years? It is because the league is turning itself into a guard's league and big men are being left behind.

Wait a minute... surely both of these wouldnt be factors in their decline... No. It must be one or the other.

[Matthew]

Jesus you're dumb. Go talk about my cock again.. "matthew your dick"

[Laxation]

Fuck off matthew you dum shit

your arguing its entirely age fucking over the big guys, riot is saying is its completely the refs
its pretty obvious its both...

[CERVANTES]

The best player right now is Kobe Bryant, but I have to say I don't like his selfishness. He's not even one of my favourite players.

[Matthew]

Fuck off matthew you dum shit

You call me "dum" yet you can't even spell the word?

It is age the reason for decline, otherwise every big man would be going into decline.