The Official Babcock is a motherfucker thread

[fgrep15]

#7: Toronto: D

Charlie Villanueva, PF, Connecticut (#7)
Joey Graham, SF, Oklahoma State (#16)
Roko Ukic, PG, Croatia (#41)
Uros Slokar, PF, Slovenia (#58)

The Raptors shocked the world (and screwed up the entire draft in the process) by taking a player who plays the only position on their team (PF) that they have absolutely no need for in Charlie Villanueva. Rob Babcock was apparently so infuriated at being ripped all year for taking Rafael Araujo solely because he filled a need that he went out and got the only position that he didn’t need at all thanks to Chris Bosh and Matt Bonner. Villanueva sure isn’t a small forward or, god forbid, a center, so how is he going to get minutes without giving up 120 points a night? He might anyway even as a power forward. Thankfully for the Raptors their draft didn’t end here. They got the most athletic player in the draft in Joey Graham, a player who is going to bring some much needed toughness and attitude, along with picking up what, on paper, looks like the steal of the draft in Roko Leni-Ukic at #41. Ukic is the kind of guy who has the potential to make every single GM that passed on him look like an absolute fool. That is…if he ever comes to the NBA. Ukic is supposedly about to sign a mammoth contract ($750,000 per year net) with Barcelona, with a huge NBA buyout included. It will take well over a million dollars a year from the Raptors to be able to bring him over. The fact that, according to NBA sources, the Raptors supposedly reneged on their promise to Ukic with the #16 pick isn’t going to help matters much either when it comes time to bringing him over.

The jury is still out on Uros Slokar. Sometimes he looks like a much slower version of Nowitzki (or maybe a poor man’s Matt Bonner?), and sometimes he looks soft and timid even by European standards. Either way, he’s probably not an NBA player.

The sad thing is, the Raptors are trying every trick in the book to try and justify their moves to their huge fan base. They say that Danny Granger has a knee problem, but according to his agent and other NBA teams we spoke to drafting right around them, he is “as healthy as can be”. The Raptors say that Gerald Green was never interested in coming to them, but according to his agent Andy Vye “we never got the feeling that they were seriously interested”.

http://draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1029

Meh....

[RA the Blazer]

Nuff Said!

[FendeR`]

When I watched UConn games, I definitely didn't see a versatile SF with decent dribbling skills and a jump shot. What I saw was a post player and a rebounder, and far from a lottery pick. Nothing like Donyell Marshall. And you can't say he would play an Amare Stoudemire type role, because Amare is just so incredibly athletic (miles ahead of CV). If the Raptors make the playoffs next year (which I doubt), it won't have anything to do with this guy. And even though I know you're just standing up for your favorite team in some respect, you know that you're overrating some guys when you say

"Ukic really intrigues me, I see him as more of a Combo guard, a Ginobili with more point instincts (you think he'll be as agile and quick as Manu, and this year?) Graham is a beast, an athletic shut down defender (everyone is stronger in the NBA, so he might struggle in that respect, and I doubt he will be shutting down many NBA stars in his rookie year) and Villanueva (though probably not worthy of the 7th pick) is a great prospect that will be able to carry the load with Bosh (maybe the garbage load, but I doubt it) ... Mo Pete can still drain the tre and slash (he misses his share of shots) , and Rose is still a post up 3 with veteren moves on the baseline (he doesn't have that many great moves in the post, he does have a few I'll add to your credit though) . Throw in Bonner (good shooter, match up problem at the 3 spot) and Sow (athletic garbage man with potential) (I hope you really aren't expecting very much at all from him) , and the Raptors have a great future.

Just seems like your expectations are pretty high, especially for the rookies. You have good points though, I don't mean to drag on a big argument or something though.

[cklitsie]

All the Raptors fans are expecting too much from Roko Ukic now, just to make their draft picks look a little better.

Also, not trying to defend Villanueva or anything, but don't bitch about his eyesbrows and his looks. He has some sort of disease which is the reason of his baldness, at least on his head I might add, before VanK starts imagening stuff.

[Username123]

I read somewhere than CV is a good dunker. But that PIC WOW!!! Yes some one can fill the void of VC because CV is here. I think Mo-Pete can stop trying to do High Flying dunks.

[FendeR`]

I really, really, really hope that you're joking about the VC-CV comment.

[Its_asdf]

I read somewhere than CV is a good dunker. But that PIC WOW!!! Yes some one can fill the void of VC because CV is here. I think Mo-Pete can stop trying to do High Flying dunks.

Are you serious? Filling the void of VC? I just don't see that happening. Why should Mo-Pete stop dunking? Care to give a reason why?

[Username123]

Yea i am serious about filling the void of VC. I am not talking about the point scoring but the dunking. Of course he is not VC but we have a good dunker in our team. Not like Mo-Pete who always tries to get put backs but never does.

[RA the Blazer]

Yea i am serious about filling the void of VC. I am not talking about the point scoring but the dunking. Of course he is not VC but we have a good dunker in our team. Not like Mo-Pete who always tries to get put backs but never does.

Exactly! Mo tries, but hes just not athletic enough to do it very well.

I'm happy someone else has an optimistic look at CV3. I hate all the negativity that the Toronto Media and ESPN homers (Greg Anthony, Stephen A. Smith) put on the pick. Let GM's do they're jobs people, if hes a bust and doesn't fit into they're system THEN you can start bitching!

[Its_asdf]

Yea i am serious about filling the void of VC. I am not talking about the point scoring but the dunking. Of course he is not VC but we have a good dunker in our team. Not like Mo-Pete who always tries to get put backs but never does.

What do you mean? Mo-Pete's dunks are t3h pwn. I actually think Mo Pete can be a pretty good dunker if he wanted to.

CV is a pretty good dunker, but even with his athletiscm, I don't see him wowing the crowds with anything too fancy.

[FendeR`]

It's not a matter of "fitting into their system" as the Raptors are a lost franchise right now. You can say they are moving into an up-tempo system, but that's pretty much diminished into a disguise that GM's use to make you think that their teams are making strides forward. And as for the lashing out at Toronto for their pick at 7, what are we supposed to do, sit back and act like the draft never happened until the end of next year when we know how all the rookies performed? Everyone is trying to figure out how the new rookies are going to perform, so don't say we can't say anything about what we think of certain picks.

[cyanide]

[color=#006699] Yea i am Let GM's do they're jobs people, if hes a bust and doesn't fit into they're system THEN you can start bitching!

I agree with that, but it's always sweeter if, if they turn out to be really good picks as the season progresses.

[Username123]

CV is a talented player but everyone in Toronto is pissed because he is not worthy pick at 7. There were other people with much better talent than him like Granger, Green, McCants and May. CV cant do under the leg windmill but he can please the crowd with good dunks.
RA the Blazer is right about judging the rookies as of now, but if you are not a good player going into the draft you wont expect really high results from him at the end of the season.

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

Ukic is the kind of guy who has the potential to make every single GM that passed on him look like an absolute fool. That is…if he ever comes to the NBA. Ukic is supposedly about to sign a mammoth contract ($750,000 per year net) with Barcelona, with a huge NBA buyout included. It will take well over a million dollars a year from the Raptors to be able to bring him over. The fact that, according to NBA sources, the Raptors supposedly reneged on their promise to Ukic with the #16 pick isn’t going to help matters much either when it comes time to bringing him over.

Don't go overlooking this fact... This new contract might keep Ukic in Europe for as much as 4 years...

[FanOfAll]

Artest is 6'7. CV is not really capable of playing SF, especially defensively, and we have Graham, MoPete, and Jalen at SF. If we got CV with plans of playing him at SF, why would we draft Graham a SF, nor a SG/SF, but a SF?

Villanueva can guard guys like Bruce Bowen, Andres Nocioni, Corliss Williamson, Josh Smith (play off him), 'Melo, Jamison/Jeffries, etc. I don't think Villanueva will play much 3, but he certainly can play it in spot duty.

I think many of you forget that Raptors played Bosh and Marshall together quite frequently. Villanueva is bigger than Marshall and probably the same post defender. Of course you won't see much of Bosh and Villanueva against Shaq or Big Z, but do you really think centers like Adonyl Foyle/Troy Murphy, Marcus Camby (jump shooting big like Murphy), Joel Pryzbilla, Chris Mihm, Mark Blount/Raef LaFrentz, etc. are going to give Bosh or Villanueva problems? The answer is no. The only teams that have a significant size and offensive post advantage over the Raptors lineup of Bosh/Villanueva are the Heat, Bulls, Cavs (or whatever team Big Z goes to), and Rockets. The other teams either lack post scoring from the center spot or lack a significant bulk advantage.

When I watched UConn games, I definitely didn't see a versatile SF with decent dribbling skills and a jump shot. What I saw was a post player and a rebounder, and far from a lottery pick.

You missed his freshman games. He focused more on post play last year. His freshman year, he played more on the wing and inside, but last year (a lot due to need), he played mostly inside.

If it were Graham at 7 and CV3 at 16 would you still be bitching?

Villanueva would not have been there at 16. Calhoun said 2 of the 3 teams after the Raptors were interested in Villanueva, which I believe is bogus. However, I do know the Warriors (#9) liked Villanueva and the Bobcats (#13) liked him as well. I don't know about the Magic though. I'm sure the Nets would've strongly considered Villanueva had he been there.

[fgrep15]

Villanueva can guard guys like Bruce Bowen, Andres Nocioni, Corliss Williamson, Josh Smith (play off him), 'Melo, Jamison/Jeffries, etc. I don't think Villanueva will play much 3, but he certainly can play it in spot duty.

They said his lateral quickness we not that good on the perimeter against PF's in College. He can guard someone like Corliss or whatever, but Melo? Melo has a pretty quick first step, can shoot the jumper, and get's to the line well, he's definately not going to be guarding anyone like that. Hey, but at least now we have 3 teams in which we can play Charlie against at PF

I think many of you forget that Raptors played Bosh and Marshall together quite frequently

We also lost a lot of games playing Bosh and Marshall together frequently, had one of the worst interior defenses in the league, and were beat up by everyone inside. It's nothing to rejoice about....

Of course you won't see much of Bosh and Villanueva against Shaq or Big Z, but do you really think centers like Adonyl Foyle/Troy Murphy, Marcus Camby (jump shooting big like Murphy), Joel Pryzbilla, Chris Mihm, Mark Blount/Raef LaFrentz, etc. are going to give Bosh or Villanueva problems? The answer is no. The only teams that have a significant size and offensive post advantage over the Raptors lineup of Bosh/Villanueva are the Heat, Bulls, Cavs (or whatever team Big Z goes to), and Rockets. The other teams either lack post scoring from the center spot or lack a significant bulk advantage.

Yea, we thought the same thing last year too till every guy over about 255lbs basically became a dominant post player against the Raptors, or a rebounding machine. The other problem is that CV is not even know as a good defender right now out of athleticism. Marshall was at least a smart defender, and he played very well against a lot of people defensively, mostly Duncan and KG.

Villanueva would not have been there at 16. Calhoun said 2 of the 3 teams after the Raptors were interested in Villanueva, which I believe is bogus. However, I do know the Warriors (#9) liked Villanueva and the Bobcats (#13) liked him as well. I don't know about the Magic though. I'm sure the Nets would've strongly considered Villanueva had he been there.

The Nets would've taken Charlie, no if's and or but's about it. They needed a PF, but that also liked Antoine Wright a lot, and their were no PF's left at their position.

Charlie is a good player, it's not about talent like I've said many times, it's about him not filling a need or being the BPA at the Raptors pick, so picking him made little sense, and still doesn't make much sense. Granger would've been a great pick, he's a good offensive player, and said to be a better defender than Graham, even the Raptors.com scouting they put up has Granger as the better defender, and says Graham might not be able to guard quicker SF's, though I don't know about that. Having both of them on the team would just be amazing.

Some people were saying the Raptors were the ones that caused him to fall by reporting his knees were not in great shape though no one else found any problems

[FanOfAll]

They said his lateral quickness we not that good on the perimeter against PF's in College. He can guard someone like Corliss or whatever, but Melo? Melo has a pretty quick first step, can shoot the jumper, and get's to the line well, he's definately not going to be guarding anyone like that. Hey, but at least now we have 3 teams in which we can play Charlie against at PF

Whose they? The same guys who touted DeSagna Diop? 'Melo does have a pretty quick first step, but Villanueva is long and as you saw, 'Melo is working almost exclusively in the post now. It could change next year, but that's where he's scoring most of his points (and the line). i counted more than 3 teams lol, and I could list more, or you could look at it this way. Last year (or er, 2 years ago), when the Pistons won the championship, they played Corliss at the 3 for several 5 minute stretches during games. Sure, Corliss struggled defensively a bit, but that's where team defense comes into play (and that's why the Pistons were the best defensive team). Why not let the Raptors dictate the matchups? Put Villanueva at the 3 and let him post up the smaller guy.

We also lost a lot of games playing Bosh and Marshall together frequently, had one of the worst interior defenses in the league, and were beat up by everyone inside. It's nothing to rejoice about....

Yea, we thought the same thing last year too till every guy over about 255lbs basically became a dominant post player against the Raptors, or a rebounding machine. The other problem is that CV is not even know as a good defender right now out of athleticism. Marshall was at least a smart defender, and he played very well against a lot of people defensively, mostly Duncan and KG.

Marshall a smart defender? Marshall let guys score on him in the post night in and night out. IIRC, Bosh was the one who played somewhat well against Duncan. The best thing on defense Marshall did was rebound the ball, which is what Villanueva and hopefully the development of Hoffa will fill.
However, let's look at it another way. Marshall is gone basically, so who would you have drafted? Frye? Who couldn't even grab 8 rpg in his senior year (Villanueva grabbed more rpg than Frye)? Frye's a soft and average defender anyways. Diogu? Who is exclusively a 4? Granger? I love Granger, but he doesn't help the lack of depth up front.

The Nets would've taken Charlie, no if's and or but's about it. They needed a PF, but that also liked Antoine Wright a lot, and their were no PF's left at their position.

I actually think if May and Villanueva were there, the Nets would've selected May.

Charlie is a good player, it's not about talent like I've said many times, it's about him not filling a need or being the BPA at the Raptors pick, so picking him made little sense, and still doesn't make much sense. Granger would've been a great pick, he's a good offensive player, and said to be a better defender than Graham, even the Raptors.com scouting they put up has Granger as the better defender, and says Graham might not be able to guard quicker SF's, though I don't know about that. Having both of them on the team would just be amazing.

Some people were saying the Raptors were the ones that caused him to fall by reporting his knees were not in great shape though no one else found any problems

I would've loved Granger too and he would've been my pick at #7, but Villanueva's a pretty good pick too.