Mavs trade for Walker

[Matt]

oh yeah this is from ESPN

Losing LaFrentz means the Mavericks have only lost their expensive backup center; Don Nelson had already decided that a new guy, Fortson, would start.

[Shep]

Losing LaFrentz means the Mavericks have only lost their expensive backup center; Don Nelson had already decided that a new guy, Fortson, would start.

this is bullshit. having one of those 5 players (Jamison) coming off the bench is just criminal, and if they do it, expect him to demand a trade

[scubilete]

having one of those 5 players (Jamison) coming off the bench is just criminal

Sometimes you have to understand the real game, this is not the famous Live video game.

walker is a capable scorer in the post when he decides to play there

So you are just hoping he decides to play there,

also jamison is decent as well and will present mismatches if teams put sf's on him.

I wonder if you know what are you talking about. who is talking about Jamison? Whenever you quote me again, try to use your intelligence to at least give your opinion. I'm talking about having the duo of C & PF where Jamison doesn't even have a chance.

occasionally take him off the dribble but mostly just hit a few jumpers to keep the big guy out lane, opening up things for every one else.

Shaq never guards guys shooting the 3 pt, he never did with Lafrentz, he never will if Dirk plays C. If Dirk decides just to shoot 3s & Dallas is using the combination you expect (Dirk & Walker playing C & PF), its easier for the Lakers, Walker can't take a reb over Malone & Shaq will be taking boards as well knowing he won't go that far to try Dirk to miss a shot, also Dirk is not a 50% 3pt shooter.

walker isn't averaging 8.7 rpg by accident.

by accident?, lol. I consider you meant that someone who faced (the Knicks/ Wiz/ Bucks/ Raptors) teams without any great combination of C-PF 5-4 times last year, is the same like facing (Spurs/ Queens/ Wolves/ Lakers/Rockets) 5-4 times this year the West teams who are extremely great in the post.

it's no major secret dallas has a somali-like frontline, but they were still one of the league's best teams last year. why wouldn't it be different this upcoming season? they've gained more then they have lost.

Nobody is saying they didn't win in the trade, but the combination they will use to face other teams, try to read before quoting. That way (again) we can save some time, cause you just join an argument to talk about everything else but the subject the discussion is about, like anyone is mentioning Jamison is not a great player or Fortson doesn't get rebs.

[Shep]

Sometimes you have to understand the real game

oh don't worry, i understand it, probably more than a mind of your capabilities could ever understand in a lifetime. anyone who knows anything about the nba would realise that jamison (a career starter) will not be happy coming off the bench, and therefore demand a trade to a team where he will start because a player of his caliber/talent will be wasted if getting reduced minutes

[scubilete]

i understand it, probably more than a mind of your capabilities could ever understand in a lifetime.

I doubt it, your capabilities of understanding still are saying that every 7 footer can be a Center.

Regarding liking it or not coming from the bench?, nobody does but they have to accept it, and much of them have to do it to win. I'd rather see Walker coming off the bench than Jamison but I'm not the coach, so you just have to live with his decision, whether is good or bad, that's knowing about this game.

[Shep]

your capabilities of understanding still are saying that every 7 footer can be a Center

people who follow the nba would realise that nowitzki played more minutes at center in '01, and '02 than any other position

so you just have to live with his decision, whether is good or bad, that's knowing about this game.

actually, thats called knowing nothing about this game. thats not todays nba players, that might've been the nba in the 80's for players to sacrifice playing time for winning but todays players would rather playing 38 minutes a game on a .400 team than 25 minutes off the bench for a playoff team

[scubilete]

people who follow the nba would realise that nowitzki played more minutes at center in '01, and '02 than any other position

, I wonder what were the games you were watching, obviously you're saying Dirk was the one guarding Shaq everytime they faced .

actually, thats called knowing nothing about this game. thats not todays nba players, that might've been the nba in the 80's for players to sacrifice playing time for winning but todays players would rather playing 38 minutes a game on a .400 team than 25 minutes off the bench for a playoff team

My appologies for offending the grade of your intelligence, I thought we were talking about the same game.

"but todays players would rather playing 38 minutes a game on a .400 team (you meant losers) than 25 minutes off the bench for a playoff team"

In other words players prefer to be losers rather than coming off the bench, lol. I love this forum,

[air gordon]

MIP4real wrote:
walker is a capable scorer in the post when he decides to play there


So you are just hoping he decides to play there,

no i'm not hoping. walker being able to score in the post proves your statement "Dallas just got a bunch of shooters & now weakest than ever in the post" is wrong and misinformed. [insert roll guy]

MIP4real wrote:
also jamison is decent as well and will present mismatches if teams put sf's on him.


I wonder if you know what are you talking about. who is talking about Jamison? Whenever you quote me again, try to use your intelligence to at least give your opinion. I'm talking about having the duo of C & PF where Jamison doesn't even have a chance.

my jamison remark was in response again to your ""Dallas just got a bunch of shooters & now weakest than ever in the post". it is clearly evident you are not specifying to which duo you are referring to. here is the quote:

Shep wrote:
what are the lakers going to do when they face dallas?


Play & win, easy. Dallas just got a bunch of shooters & now weakest than ever in the post.

please do use your intelligence rather then just finding an excuse to put the roll guy [insert roll guy]

Shaq never guards guys shooting the 3 pt, he never did with Lafrentz, he never will if Dirk plays C.

wrong. not often do i get to make someone my internet biatch but ....please your intelligence again. 4/9/03, the game where the lakers overcame the huge deficit, shaq guarded lafrentz. lafrentz enjoyed his best day in a mavs uniform drawing o'neal away from the paint draining 6 3pters. here is the link: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap?gid=2003040813
directly taken from the recap:

LaFrentz made consecutive 3-pointers -- with O'Neal actually going out and trying to block the second one -- to pull Dallas to 93-87

[insert big roll guy]

its easier for the Lakers, Walker can't take a reb over Malone & Shaq will be taking boards as well knowing he won't go that far to try Dirk to miss a shot, also Dirk is not a 50% 3pt shooter.

how could this be easier for shaq?! Dirk is a more consistent/unhesitant perimeter shooter then any other perimeter shooting center that shaq had to guard (divac, lafrentz). dirk isn't like lafrentz and won't camp out in 3pt land. he's one of the game's best pure shooters and can hits shots from all over. he shot 46% for the most part with someone trying to challenge. imagine what his % would be if shaq didn't come out and guard him

MIP4real wrote:
walker isn't averaging 8.7 rpg by accident.


by accident?, lol. I consider you meant that someone who faced (the Knicks/ Wiz/ Bucks/ Raptors) teams without any great combination of C-PF 5-4 times last year, is the same like facing (Spurs/ Queens/ Wolves/ Lakers/Rockets) 5-4 times this year the West teams who are extremely great in the post.

again, i don't mind making you my internet biatch, but as long as your willing....
so according to you, every other player that has similar/bigger rebounding numbers to walker's should have an asterisk to next to their name because they play in the eastern conference [insert roll guy] btw walker's rpg against your version of the west's great post teams:
vs SAS: 8.5
vs SAC: 6
vs MIN: 8
vs LAL: 6
vs HOU: 8.5
that's 7.4 rpg, actually more then what he averaged for the season and against the eastern conference. again, do me and the rest of us a favor and save us some time: look at the stats before you start making invalid statements and roll guys [insert roll guy]

[Matt]

Walker has averaged 8.7rpg but given that he's also played 39.4mpg that's not a flash number
He should really be getting 10rpg just like he did in 97-98, especially since Celts never really had a rebounder during his time

[Shep]

obviously you're saying Dirk was the one guarding Shaq everytime they faced

read it again, and then when you think u've understood, read it 3 more times....notice i never said anything about 'dirk guarding shaq every time dallas played the lakers' .

.400 team (you meant losers)

congratulations on your new found knowledge that a .400 team is losers

[scubilete]

no i'm not hoping.

Yes you are, waiting for him to decide to play in the post is a hope from you,

it is clearly evident you are not specifying to which duo you are referring to. here is the quote:

Of course I know you from past experiences and I know you never read. I know where your problem is, you get to the forum & post without looking at the subjects, right?, lol. That's great, only dumbies do that but I think it's funny to see you quoting without knowing the subject of the post or thread. Now you are asking me to specify to which duo I was referring to?, well, I wonder if you can read:

knowing Dirk is in the panel either as a C or PF here is some clear info for you

by your logic they should start somebody like danny fortson just because he's the biggest they've got.

By your logic, they should start Walker who doesn't rebound & just love shooting from behind the arc, so they never get a freaking rebound & that way becoming the weakest duo of all the top teams.

, so it is clear nobody is talking about Jamison, the thread is not about Jamison, just read, reading is fundamental.

please do use your intelligence rather then just finding an excuse to put the roll guy

, I'm sorry, I can't make you intelligent by using mine. I really use my intelligence but that doesn't make dumbies good in reading.

wrong. not often do i get to make someone my internet biatch but ....please your intelligence again.

If I ask you to use your intelligence, I don't think you are doing your best.

lafrentz enjoyed his best day in a mavs uniform drawing o'neal away from the paint draining 6 3pters. here is the link:

I don't need links Craw, I watched the game, lol. What's the big deal of Lafrentz making 3 pts. Are you trying to say that Lafrentz shot those 3s over Shaq?, lol. You really needed the link.

dirk isn't like lafrentz and won't camp out in 3pt land

Oh no, now Dirk doesn't shoot 3s. This is the 2nd funniest quote of the day.

imagine what his % would be if shaq didn't come out and guard him.

You haven't watched a Lakers game for the last 4 years, you hate the Lakers so bad that everytime you see they're going to be on tv, you go out to the streets or come online to post without reading, lol. Anyway, you are trying to say that Dirk will demolish Shaq from outside?, good, is he 100% shooter?, NO. Just get there and shoot your 3s, he has done it the last 3 years and nobody has stopped him from doing it, what makes you think the Lakers will ask anyone to try to do it?, lol. Also he has never gotten a ring shooting 3s, understood? Now you ask me to find reasons to roll eyes, lol.

that's 7.4 rpg, actually more then what he averaged for the season and against the eastern conference.

Ok, you said he averaged 8 rebs per game, now you're saying 7.4 is more than what he averaged for the season, hmmm, are you that bad in math?, I mean, just a math dumb would say 7 > 8. Well, anyway he averaged much more rebs against the West teams you said, 6 against Horry & the Lakers, 6 against Webber, lol. & that's really a lot for a PF.

I really love the arguments with you, you are funny
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shep, you meant that Dirk plays at C but doesn't guard Shaq?, so I guess that makes Shaq something else but C right? I'm sorry, either he plays C or plays PF, and I've watched the Mavs games and he does play the PF pos in his own way, so I don't think you (a mastermind of the game) are clear on that.

[air gordon]

this is all great comedy

Quote:
no i'm not hoping.


Yes you are, waiting for him to decide to play in the post is a hope from you,

the fact remains that walker is a capable scorer in the post. that shows your statement of "Dallas just got a bunch of shooters & now weakest than ever in the post" is wrong and misinformed. as for him venturing down there, this isn't like the jews waiting for the second coming of jesus.

Quote:
it is clearly evident you are not specifying to which duo you are referring to. here is the quote:


Of course I know you from past experiences and I know you never read. I know where your problem is, you get to the forum & post without looking at the subjects, right?, lol. That's great, only dumbies do that but I think it's funny to see you quoting without knowing the subject of the post or thread. Now you are asking me to specify to which duo I was referring to?, well, I wonder if you can read:

Quote:
Shep wrote:
by your logic they should start somebody like danny fortson just because he's the biggest they've got.


By your logic, they should start Walker who doesn't rebound & just love shooting from behind the arc, so they never get a freaking rebound & that way becoming the weakest duo of all the top teams.

perhaps i should have just said you are referring to no duo at all, rather just generalizing in the your response:

Shep wrote:
what are the lakers going to do when they face dallas?


Play & win, easy. Dallas just got a bunch of shooters & now weakest than ever in the post.

but that's ok. i guess we are supposed to know that you are referring to some specific duo in that response

Quote:
wrong. not often do i get to make someone my internet biatch but ....please your intelligence again.


If I ask you to use your intelligence (in case you have any), I don't think you are doing your best.

i may not be doing my best, but that does not cover up the fact that your still my internet biatch.

Quote:
lafrentz enjoyed his best day in a mavs uniform drawing o'neal away from the paint draining 6 3pters. here is the link:


I don't need links limb, I watched the game, lol. What's the big deal of Lafrentz making 3 pts. Are you trying to say that Lafrentz shot those 3s over Shaq?, lol. You really needed the link.

i'm not the one contradicting myself by saying:

Shaq never guards guys shooting the 3 pt, he never did with Lafrentz, he never will if Dirk plays C.

then say you saw that game where lafrentz shot 3's with shaq guarding him. either your ignorant or are in denial

Craw4real wrote:
dirk isn't like lafrentz and won't camp out in 3pt land


Oh no, now Dirk doesn't shoot 3s. This is the 2nd funniest quote of the day.

only you would think i was implying dirk doesn't shoot 3's. just like how you thought i was implying the bulls having a better bench then the lakers mean they are title contenders

You haven't watched a Lakers game for the last 4 years, you hate the Lakers so bad that everytime you see they're going to be on tv, you go out to the streets or come online to post without reading, lol. Anyway, you are trying to say that Dirk will demolish Shaq from outside?, good, is he 100% shooter?, NO. Just get there and shoot your 3s, he has done it the last 3 years and nobody has stopped him from doing it, what makes you think the Lakers will ask anyone to try to do it?, lol. Also he has never gotten a ring shooting 3s, understood? Now you ask me to find reasons to roll eyes, lol.

let me know when you're done putting words in my mouth so we can back to the discussion

Ok, you said he averaged 8 rebs per game, now you're saying 7.4 is more than what he averaged for the season, hmmm, are you that bad in math?, I mean, just a math dumb would say 7 > 8.

my mistake, i meant to say walker has a career avg of 8.7rpg. this past season he averaged 7.2 rebs. so my argument still stands

Well, anyway he averaged much more rebs against the West teams you said, 6 against Horry & the Lakers, 6 against Webber, lol. & that's really a lot for a PF.

that's a strawman's argument. you want to take that route, fine. walker averaged at least 8 rebounds against 3 out of the 5 powerhouse teams you mentioned. woo hoo... duncan averaged only 8.5 rebs against the crappy celts (same as walker's avg vs SAS). i guess that makes him a crappy rebounder too

I really love the arguments with you, you are funny

i'm glad you're taking a good attitude with me making you my internet biatch

[Shep]

you meant that Dirk plays at C but doesn't guard Shaq?, so I guess that makes Shaq something else but C right? I'm sorry, either he plays C or plays PF, and I've watched the Mavs games and he does play the PF pos in his own way

during games against the lakers in '01 and '02 dallas would've started bradley and lafrentz at center and played nowitzki at power forward so no nowtizki didn't guard shaq

you (a mastermind of the game)

yay! you're learning!

[scubilete]

i may not be doing my best, but that does not cover up the fact that your still my internet biatch.

Nah, you are doing your best, that's the best you can do.

you would think i was implying dirk doesn't shoot 3's.

lol, let's see.

dirk isn't like lafrentz and won't camp out in 3pt land

There you have it, You keep talking all the crap you want, internet biatch, lol. Look at it, you are worse everyday, and you think by showing how dumb you can be, you're making others have a bad time, it's for me a pleasure to see you acting stupid.

let me know when you're done putting words in my mouth so we can back to the discussion

Putting words in your mouth, lol. hmmm, I wonder how do you call other things?

my mistake

Your mistake, oh so I'm not putting anything in your mouth, you're just making mistakes, ok .

i'm glad you're taking a good attitude with me making you my internet biatch

No problem, just keep it in your mouth as I put it there, don't let it out.

Anyway, you started all this for not reading.

I don't care who will, if Finley is better than those 2, good. I just don't see the Mavs using the combination of Dirk & Walker to face Shaq & Malone, KG & Kandi, TD & Nesterovic, Webber & Miller (Divac) "see there's no Jamison", Those still have the advantage, so it's better to have Dirk in PF & someone else who can rebound at least & in this case is not Walker which means if Walker doesn't move back to SF, he might have to sit down.

do you want shaq facing dirk? what are the lakers going to do when they face dallas? by your logic they should start somebody like danny fortson just because he's the biggest they've got.

I wonder if people think Dirk plays in the east to make it look like he can handle the job for just being a 7 footer, not wondering that would be the weakest front line against other teams. 2 guys who just love shooting 3s playing C & PF, that would be funny to watch.

Still, no Jamison unless you're making Jamison the C

Oh sorry, I wonder if you can read anything around, or at least your brain can process any data. , I see Jamison there, you introduced him as the next C?, or you want Jamison to play PF?, hmmm, I'm your biatch, lol, I wonder how can I be your biatch when you have something so big in your mouth.

[Matthew]

I really love the arguments with you, you are funny

i'm glad you're taking a good attitude with me making you my internet biatch[/quote]
lol man, dont bother with him crawford.. some people are just retards

[Andreas Dahl]

since ya'll be quoting the hell out of each other, it though'd quote Dr. Seth:

Antoine Walker is a fat-ass babyseal cretin that should be downsized with a shovel

so beautifull

[Mikki]

<-- toine...

[air gordon]

I really love the arguments with you, you are funny

i'm glad you're taking a good attitude with me making you my internet biatch

lol man, dont bother with him crawford.. some people are just retards[/quote]
thanks, i'm taking your advice. should have seen the signs earlier

[benji]

By the way, back on Michael Finley, when it came time to extend contracts, Finley got a better deal than Nowitzki,

due to the CBA guidelines Finley could recieve more money for a maximum contract...which is why Duncan's max is less than KG's and so on...

I'm going to be honest...once I saw more than five quotes in a post I stopped reading...but I did see some people who were wrong on a few key points...

Dallas was the ninth best team in the league last year on the defensive end, and then they got better in this trade. LaFrentz and Welsch (If Mills played a lot, I would've been surprised) weren't even speed bumps defensively, they were more like grooves on the side of the road to wake you up when you fall asleep and start drifting. LaFrentz is a displaced Power Forward with long arms which allows him to get blocks, but he's much like Mutombo of a few years back, in that he swats at way too many shots and ignores the other aspects of defense. LaFrentz also is a hacker, foul trouble is a serious problem.

Walker is a surprisingly good defender. Especially when he fronts the post (which was Boston's key to shutting down teams down low despite not having any good defenders) and he's big enough and has good enough movement to defend if he gets posted up. Tony Delk meanwhile is a great defender at the point (joining Best, who, healthy, in a backup role should regain his defensive prowness of the past) and skilled enough to be able to defend most SG's in the league.

I don't see how Dallas didn't get better and push itself farther ahead of everyone in the league not located in Arrrhnold's new home. Dallas was the best team in the league by quite a margin last season, and then they added two near All-Star level players (losing only an aging PG, who while very talented was not a long term answer and a misplaced power forward). Not only that but they upped their defense by a huge margin by making this deal.

Everyone talks about how the Mavericks can't stop Shaq/Duncan down low. They haven't had anybody to really do that, well, ever. LaFrentz couldn't do it, and Bradley doesn't move properly to do it. Then again, no in the league can really stop either of them. All the Mavericks did in this deal was improve their overall defense and push their offense to an astounding state (Dallas was first in the league offensively by a huge margin as well, and they have gotten far better).

Don Nelson is smart to start Fortson at the Center, but not smart to start Walker. Fortson can take the opposing teams better of the two frontcourters (C and PF) slowing them for weakside help from Dirk (if I'm Nelson I focus on this) if he's getting demolished and he's better starting because of his rebounding, which offsets his lack of offense and defense, and bringing him off the bench weakens the bench offensively. Bringing Walker off the bench is smarter than Jamison because Walker has more depth to his game and Jamison's offensive ability would mesh better with Dirk's (though they might be the worst individual defensive forward tandem in the league). Walker can come off with Bradley, Najera, Best/Delk and Howard/Abdul-Wahad, be the primary scoring threat, and he should then be a near-lock for sixth man award. However, against almost every team in the NBA they could play Walker starter minutes and have Forston start but play reserve minutes.

Let's take a look at a team...the Lakers. For example, while Shaq might score easier on Dallas inside than other teams, Kobe will have a much tougher time against Dallas offsetting the extra 10 points Shaq might get. Dallas was one of the best teams, if not THE best team in the league defending the two guard last season, Kobe's offensive production was sliced in half, McGrady's by over a third, Pierce's by three fourths. I haven't looked at other positions, but only a few teams were even within shouting distance of Dallas level of stopping the two guard. And those were the defensive powerhouses of the league: New Jersey, Sacramento, San Antonio and Detroit.

Last season Dallas was crusing through the season well on the path to win it all easily, but two untimely injuries (Finley during the season, then Nowitzki in the playoffs...and to some extent Van Exel's nine games hurt...and Najera's 34 definately hurt) derailed them and opened it up for San Antonio. This year they got better on both ends, and beefed up the bench quite a bit. Like scub said, the pressure is on them, as they are now the favorites to win it all.

[scubilete]

some people are just retards

I know, they are also sad cunts

[Matthew]

Dallas was the ninth best team in the league last year on the defensive end, and then they got better in this trade. LaFrentz and Welsch (If Mills played a lot, I would've been surprised) weren't even speed bumps defensively, they were more like grooves on the side of the road to wake you up when you fall asleep and start drifting. LaFrentz is a displaced Power Forward with long arms which allows him to get blocks, but he's much like Mutombo of a few years back, in that he swats at way too many shots and ignores the other aspects of defense. LaFrentz also is a hacker, foul trouble is a serious problem.

They were ninth? I didnt know that..as for Lafrenz, you say he has long arms and swats at alot of shots, which i agree.. but when a player does this, it usually creates intimidation when the opposition tries to score on him. Thats simply somthing Toine cant do..

Walker is a surprisingly good defender. Especially when he fronts the post (which was Boston's key to shutting down teams down low despite not having any good defenders) and he's big enough and has good enough movement to defend if he gets posted up.

His defense reminds me alot of Karl Malones actually, both have quick hands and not really shot blockers. But unless Dallas puts in a half court trap and tries to force turnovers, I cant see them being too effective defensively.. but they do have alot of offensive firepower, so they will probably win 55 plus games again. But they will struggle in the playoffs like last year, and if they dont get lucky with teams getting hurt they will most likely see a (much) earlier exit then last season.

Tony Delk meanwhile is a great defender at the point (joining Best, who, healthy, in a backup role should regain his defensive prowness of the past) and skilled enough to be able to defend most SG's in the league

I agree with that except that Dallas will most likely go zone, so if delk comes in as their point guard, he wont match up with the other teams point or shooting guard all the time.

Dallas was the best team in the league by quite a margin last season, and then they added two near All-Star level players (losing only an aging PG, who while very talented was not a long term answer and a misplaced power forward). Not only that but they upped their defense by a huge margin by making this deal.

How were they the best team last season? They got of to a great start, but struggled towards the end and crawled through the playoffs.I think they improved their on the ball defense, but their offense is what improved the most in this deal, which is imo what they didnt need to focus on.

Everyone talks about how the Mavericks can't stop Shaq/Duncan down low. They haven't had anybody to really do that, well, ever. LaFrentz couldn't do it, and Bradley doesn't move properly to do it. Then again, no in the league can really stop either of them. All the Mavericks did in this deal was improve their overall defense and push their offense to an astounding state (Dallas was first in the league offensively by a huge margin as well, and they have gotten far better).

But before they could at least match up with duncan or shaq in terms of size (well at least as good as anyone could on paper). Now you have a situation where dallas has to score 70, 75 plus point per halves games.. and come playoff time that could be disasterous, even with the team they have.

Let's take a look at a team...the Lakers. For example, while Shaq might score easier on Dallas inside than other teams, Kobe will have a much tougher time against Dallas offsetting the extra 10 points Shaq might get. Dallas was one of the best teams, if not THE best team in the league defending the two guard last season, Kobe's offensive production was sliced in half, McGrady's by over a third, Pierce's by three fourths. I haven't looked at other positions, but only a few teams were even within shouting distance of Dallas level of stopping the two guard. And those were the defensive powerhouses of the league: New Jersey, Sacramento, San Antonio and Detroit.

The lakers arent just a two man team anymore, so if Kobe is struggling, its not shaq who has the sole responsability to pick up the slack in scoring. Malone and payton have the tools and know how on offense to do this. Like i said before, Dallas will be a great on the ball defensive team, but I think they will struggle big time down low.

Don Nelson is smart to start Fortson at the Center, but not smart to start Walker. Fortson can take the opposing teams better of the two frontcourters (C and PF) slowing them for weakside help from Dirk (if I'm Nelson I focus on this) if he's getting demolished and he's better starting because of his rebounding, which offsets his lack of offense and defense, and bringing him off the bench weakens the bench offensively. Bringing Walker off the bench is smarter than Jamison because Walker has more depth to his game and Jamison's offensive ability would mesh better with Dirk's (though they might be the worst individual defensive forward tandem in the league). Walker can come off with Bradley, Najera, Best/Delk and Howard/Abdul-Wahad, be the primary scoring threat, and he should then be a near-lock for sixth man award. However, against almost every team in the NBA they could play Walker starter minutes and have Forston start but play reserve minutes.

But.. this could be foiled so easily if the guy nowitzki is marking just cuts to the hoop. Either he will get to the line or the team will collapse (or both), which will open things up for the outside shooters for the other team. Against the Lakers and spurs yes everyteam has to double shaq or duncan, but now the mavs have to double guys like cwebb, kg, rasheed wallace or any guy who can back his way down towards the basket.. thats why i think they (dallas) will be in trouble in the playoffs

This year they got better on both ends, and beefed up the bench quite a bit. Like scub said, the pressure is on them, as they are now the favorites to win it all.

I still think the lakers are the favourites in most peoples eyes, but i like sacramento.. but thats for another day

[Eugene]

I know I suggested that Walker should be traded in an earlier post, but not like this. I think the Celts could have done a little better than Raef Lafrentz, and the Mavs really didn't get a whole lot better defensively.

I think the Celtics made out okay in this trade. I don't think the trade made sense as far as building for the future is concerned, since Walker's contract expires before Lafrentz's does, and the future first round pick is in the high twenties. But, it looks like Walker was going to leave anyway, it looks like a step in the right direction, i.e. pseudo-rebuilding around Paul Pierce.

I was watching the first half of the new look Celts versus the T'wolves (Note 1), and I thought Raef Lafrentz was looking terrific (Note 2). Raef was moving without the ball, running the floor, hustling after loose balls, all the things that Antoine wasn't doing when he was playing for Boston (Note 3). It really looked like Raef could help the team with his energy and his three point shooting--which came in total context of the team offense.

If Raef Lafrentz can keep up this kind of effort, if not the production, then the trade will have evened out. Kedrick Brown looks ready for a bigger role, Vin Baker looks great, and most important of all Paul Pierce looks ready to finally form the triumvirate of equally-devasting-made-for-debate two guards, along with Kobe and T-Mac (Note 4). Danny Ainge was infatuated with Jiri Welsch and his ability to shoot the ball, but I've not seen him yet, so I'll take Ainge's word for it.

But there's still one thing that bothers me. Raef Lafrentz, when he first came to Dallas, seemed to be everything Dallas was hoping for. Then he tailed off. And that happens with most trades: players come out energetic and rejuvenized by the new prospects and scenery, and have a couple of good games. Then, they fall into stagnation, where they're doing their jobs, but not much more. Or not even as well as they need to. That's why they get traded in the first place. (Note 5). We can't confirm that Lafrentz will keep up the intensity and performance. Glenn Robinson, Shareef Abdul-Rahim, and numerous others show the same kind of pattern. How do we know that Lafrentz, who has already shown signs, will be different than any of them?

So, while I'm very confused, and I'm sure you are too, the short answer it this: The outlook actually looks pretty good, as long as Lafrentz keeps it up. If he doesn't, then Boston fans won't show much patience with him or the team.

On the Mav's end, they got more potent offensively, but I think took a half step back defensively.

When the Mav's field their best five, they'll have a line-up of Walker, Nowitzky, Jamison in the front court and Finley and Nash in the back. Walker, Nash, and Finley are all capable of handling the ball and initiating the break. Each player can outlet to any of the other four. They'll run, and run, and run, and score a bunch of points.

Their soft middle just got softer. I don't believe they'll use Fortson as the centerpiece of their varous zone defenses, and I don't know how effective Shawn Bradley will be. And Walker... yes, he can be a good defender; he's strong enough, and quick enough. But, his biggest problem will be getting motivated. When four other guys on the floor will be playing half-hearted defense, what's going to motivate Walker to play any defense at all? Most of the time for the Celts, he was playing matador defense anyway. And do you really want him playing D against Shaq or Duncan? He'll pick up too many fouls or expend too much energy to be effective on the other end (Note 6).

On offense, they'll have a lot of options. But again, Walker can either flourish in the first-come first-shoot offense, or become too trigger happy. In all honesty, Walker hasn't met a shot he didn't like. So, depending on which Walker plays in the game, they'll have the most potent offense in the league, or the most erratic offense in the league. Also, Walker did look good in his first game. But, what's to stop him from falling into that same rut that I mentioned earlier? He was traded because he took too many threes and didn't play inside. You're going to tell me he's going to be any better for the Mavericks?

If the best 5 starts, then the bench is awfully thin. They can counteract that by sending either Walker or Jamison to the bench. Jamison has already agreed, but will Walker like coming off the bench? And can either of them be the explosive scorer that NVE was? I don't think that will matter. Since players are subtituted in pairs, the Mavs will always have at least two or three scoring threats on the floor. But they won't have the defense to make up for the lost scoring.

Bottom line, Mavs improved their offense, stayed same on defense. Walker is more talented than Raef, but may also be a bigger risk. They've been on the verge of a championship for a long time. I don't think they needed to add another offensive weapon, but it could push them over the top. Or, the lack of defense will keep them from winning it all.

All the best,

Eugene

Notes:

(1. They looked pretty terrible, but that's a post for another time)

(2. I also thought Tommy Heinsohn was in denial. Danny Ainge just took Tommy's livelihood away. For earlier part of the game, Tommy sounded tame, apathetic, and generally unenergetic, until Lafrentz came alive)

(3. Let's face it, it's a known fact that superstars rarely move without the ball--which is why Michael Jordan, Kobe (sometimes), Reggie, TD, are all so special, because they move without the ball)

(4. You can argue that Pierce was already there, but let's face it. He was good--great even-- but he wasn't quite there yet. It looked like it was going to be Vince, but he went down, and then we had no one to contend with Kobe and T-Mac, but with the leadership Pierce as shown and the passing, it looks like we're finally going to have a third)

(5. There's always exception to every rule, but really, when was the last time someone got traded and flourished and stayed there? Marbury? Kidd? T-Mac? They're superstars, and with special circumstances. NJ was custom-made for Kidd. The Nets sent Marbury packing before he finally realized his potential. T-Mac's T-Mac. Just watch for Ray Allen, and see if he doesn't fall into the same rut that got him traded out of Milwaukee, and don't even get me started on Mutombo and Van Horn)

(6. You're right, Dallas couldn't get much worse on defense anyway, so their game plan may have been to just concentrate on offense. But you can't outshoot everyone in the league, even with the crew they have. There's only so many shots, and so many possessions to go around. Just because you have 5 guys who can average 25 a game doesn't mean you're going to average 125 pts a game as a team. You have to stop the other team)

[Matthew]

When I read your post, it hit me, maybe the celts traded walker to give vin baker the opportunity to start?

[benji]

I really don't want to do quotes...but...maybe a few...

They were ninth? I didnt know that..as for Lafrenz, you say he has long arms and swats at alot of shots, which i agree.. but when a player does this, it usually creates intimidation when the opposition tries to score on him. Thats simply somthing Toine cant do..

Indeed, in order the Top Ten was: New Jersey, Sacramento, San Antonio, Detroit, Indiana, New Orleans, Boston, Denver, Dallas and Phoenix.

The problem with LaFrentz is he doesn't create any intimidation. He's not an intimidating player, he's easily pushed around down low and the only reason he manages to block shots is his long arms and is wilding swinging not because he positions himself well (ala Duncan).

In my opinion, Dallas should take a look at a half court trap, it has worked wonders for a bunch of average defenders in Boston. Even without it Walker is a much better defender than LaFrentz, even without fronting the post. Dallas last season won 60 games and one can honestly say that if healthier 65 was in reach. They struggled in the playoffs not necessarily because of their inside defense though, Portland came out with a great defensive scheme after the third game, stretched the zone and then use beasts like Randolph and Sabonis, Sacramento and San Antonio are monster defensive teams and all of them were able to slow Dallas to the point that Nick Van Exel became their top weapon and then Dallas' defense started to slip as they began to panic. Dirk getting hurt prevented the Mavericks from winning it all, they were on track to do just that despite their various flounders. Of course they will need to recover and figure things out quicker so they don't face what they did in Portland.

Dallas really cut back on the zone last year and when they did go zone, they did run a matchup zone so Nash and Finley often stayed with their man.

How were they the best team last season? They got of to a great start, but struggled towards the end and crawled through the playoffs.I think they improved their on the ball defense, but their offense is what improved the most in this deal, which is imo what they didnt need to focus on.

In terms of difference between defensive and offensive efficency the Mavericks had a huge lead by getting 8.6 (SA and SAC both had 6.5...though I would consider a healthy SAC's to be closer, if not equal to Dallas'). They might have needed something else, but this deal still was a major coup for them.

They couldn't really match up with Duncan or Shaq in terms of size though, LaFrentz isn't really big and he doesn't play big. I think the shorter but bulkier Fortson will actually be felt more downlow. I don't think they have to score 70-75 points in a half considering there's only a handful of teams that could even crack 60.

Malone and Payton won't be attacking down low, nor will they be 30 point threats like Kobe. Taking Kobe out of a game is a huge factor in beating the Lakers. Like, I prefaced my statement with, I haven't looked at the other positions, only shooting guard so I don't know where else (if anywhere) Dallas was just suffocating defensively.

I don't know why suddenly Dallas has to double guys they didn't before. LaFrentz is worse overall defensively than Fortson because he doesn't hold his ground, and we've already established he's far worse than Walker. Dallas now has four guys up front who hold their ground as well as anyone in the league even if they're flawed elsewhere, Bradley, Najera, Fortson and Walker. There's also the fact that Webber, KG and Wallace don't often make forays into the post and Nowitzki is big enough to at least slow them.

I think that the fact they improved their defense, combined with the fact they pushed their offense to a point unmatched since the first Bulls threepeat is enough to negate the flaws in their low post defense.

I still think the lakers are the favourites in most peoples eyes

Most people are uninformed and just look at the names however. Dallas and Sacramento should be the only real favorites.

[scubilete]

Most people are uninformed and just look at the names however. Dallas and Sacramento should be the only real favorites.