Steve Francis Returns to the Rockets

by **Air Zoom Kobe I** on Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:06 pm

Avery was a defensive player and a playmaker so he wasn't gonna shoot. Magic could do everything

http://www.click2houston.com/video/13728148/index.html

Steve Francis Press Conference :mrgreen:

by **[Q]** on Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:35 pm

ben, i understand your statistical argument for the 3 rockets pgs but assist % is important, but it isn't the end-all argument for point guard effeciency.

i'd say assist to turnover ratio is also an important one.

by **benji** on Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:59 pm

Assist to turnover ratio is pretty meaningless and makes little sense.

Fred Hoiberg led in 01-02...Matt Bullard was higher than John Stockton in 99-00...Alvin Williams and Jeff McInnis topped Kidd and Stockton in 01-02...Laettner over Kidd in 02-03...

A guy who sits in the corner waiting for a pass and doesn't put the ball on the floor, can get assists, but won't get turnovers. By making it a ratio it punishes guys who have the ball more (like say...point guards) over guys who don't have to bring the ball up. Turnovers are more related to points in value, than assists.

I'm not saying point guard efficiency, most of the point guards are superior in quality and efficiency to the Rockets point guards. But they are not "pass-first" point guards. Assist ratio says, when the player has the ball, how likely is he to get an assist. And the Rockets point guards are within the markers set by recent champion point guards. And "pass-first" point guards actually aren't winning titles.

I'm not saying the Rockets point guards are as good, or even good enough for them to win titles. But that "pass-first" point guards aren't necessary to win titles, and may infact may be irrelevant.

by **NovU** on Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:37 am

like i said rafer isn't even a good passer. he is pass first minded cuz he sux pretty much in everything else. remember when he missed like 30 field goals in a row last season?
and benji is definitely right on this one. you don't need pass first pg to win title at all. even jason williams won title. tyrone lue won. fisher won. billups won. parker won. compare them to prime days francis. not much better or worse... just need to be matured to be the champ, and francis is at that stage of career where can provide maturity & veteran leadership off and on the court. and that's what makes rockets so dangerous this year. those saying rafer > francis is bullcrap. where's ur brain?

by **Sauru** on Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:22 am

i gotta disagree with your arguement benji. then again i think people, myself included, will put players as a pass or shoot first with no grey area. i think players like lets say tony parker. you could say he is a shoot first, seems that way to me, but he also knows when to make the pass and when he has to just go and score on his own. a player like francis who is also considered shoot first can get assists but really never tries to set up teammates or help them improve.

so i guess the arguement should not be pass first vs shoot first but team first vs self first

by **jonthefon** on Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:21 pm

That's pretty solid there.

Great point guards have generally been team-first over self-first. Even guys with egos like Isiah Thomas.

by **1CenT** on Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:46 pm

steve francis sorry.. lol

I don't think Houston's problem is in the PG situation.. the teams that won a championship the last decade

Spurs
Heat
Pistons
Lakers
Bulls

They all had role players that didn't cause significant chemistry problems..
Francis as a role player can be a problem, same with Mike James... Rafer isn't a chemistry problem, he just can't shoot or pass very well..

Out of those 3 guys... I doubt Houston will be lucky enough to have all 3 of them do well (play their roles)

+ the championship run will rely on Yao and Tmac.. Yao still hasn't delivered at a superstar level, Tmac's shooting is soo inconsistent.. it is hard unless the role players play really well..

Still too much things need to go right for them to make it all the way..

We'll see wut happens this season..

Tmac needs to be back in the upper echelon of the elites.. And Yao ming needs to get there inorder for them to win.

by **Drex** on Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:51 am

Spurs
Heat
Pistons
Lakers
Bulls

They all had role players that didn't cause significant chemistry problems..

What about Kobe?

by **Sauru** on Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:43 am

1CenT wrote:steve francis sorry.. lol

I don't think Houston's problem is in the PG situation.. the teams that won a championship the last decade

Spurs
Heat
Pistons
Lakers
Bulls

They all had role players that didn't cause significant chemistry problems..
Francis as a role player can be a problem, same with Mike James... Rafer isn't a chemistry problem, he just can't shoot or pass very well..

since when is tony parker a role player? i mean to say, since when is the finals mvp just a role player, since billups was one also?

by **Anthony15** on Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:47 am

Drex wrote:
Spurs
Heat
Pistons
Lakers
Bulls

They all had role players that didn't cause significant chemistry problems..

What about Kobe?

Yes, Lakers can't be in that list. Kobe does hurts it, not much of a passer, even though he does gets hot and pulls out wins for them.

by **Sauru** on Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:52 am

i may be wrong but i think he meant the point guards were role players who did not cause chemistry problems

by **maceo24** on Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:41 am

Thats kinda what i was getting at before. He said it much better though. Point guards have to bring continuity to the offense, and at his best, I don't see Francis bringing that to that team. James, maybe. Franchise, no.

by **NovU** on Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:57 pm

I don't think chemistry will be a problem for francis in houston. Obviously, his days at NY killed his reputation and was seen as a chemestry problemetic pg. But that's cuz his space was limited mostly due to starbury and crawford. He'll be back to his former self now. And houston never was a team with great chemistry anyways. It was always T-mac & Yao show and strong defense. So when it mattered most, they collapsed on offensive end when the duo couldn't provide. Now Francis can be the 3rd option which houston really lacked. He's a great playmaker and a good defender. and years of experience in playing alongside yao will prove all doubters wrong. mark my word, he's a great fit for rockets.

by **McDwyane** on Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:10 pm

I hope he can start out strong again.

YouTube · by **shadowgrin** on Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:25 am

Watch Yao's rebounding numbers go up as T-Mac and Franchise try to jack shots and outshoot each other.

by **maceo24** on Sat Jul 28, 2007 3:29 am

I think they already had a solid 3rd option in Shane Battier. Hes a solid shooter and if they actually used his talents a little more (offensively), he could get them 15-20 a game.

Maybe I'm too tough on Francis, though. I was never a big fan when he was at maryland, and have absolutely despised him for what he did when he was drafted. It set new precedents for the league, none of which were good.

by **NovU** on Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:32 pm

when rockets brought him, it was for his hustle plays not cuz he's a playmaker or a great scorer.

francis is widely hated cuz what he did to vancouver but ppl gotta let bygones be bygones.

by **Its_asdf** on Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:33 pm

francis is widely hated cuz what he did to vancouver but ppl gotta let bygones be bygones.

Yeah, lets just let every player take advantage of their situation and just not report and then forget about it. Playing in the NBA is a privilege that Francis took advantage of. I could've understood (but I probably would've still hated him) if he was a free agent or something, but there are many less fortunate players out there and the guy got to be drafted as a lottery pick and not some second rounder who struggles to even make a team. He should've been more fortunate of the position he was in, and he got away without any punishment. It sickens me.

I'm sure that Francis has matured though. He's probably a lot more humble after sucking so hard because he didn't get the ball a zillion times a game like he usually did during his early Houston days. Maybe he's finally realized that dribbling the ball around the perimeter trying to be a human sportscentre highlight reel isn't going to do anything for his team...

by **1CenT** on Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:11 pm

Sauru wrote:
1CenT wrote:steve francis sorry.. lol

I don't think Houston's problem is in the PG situation.. the teams that won a championship the last decade

Spurs
Heat
Pistons
Lakers
Bulls

They all had role players that didn't cause significant chemistry problems..
Francis as a role player can be a problem, same with Mike James... Rafer isn't a chemistry problem, he just can't shoot or pass very well..

since when is tony parker a role player? i mean to say, since when is the finals mvp just a role player, since billups was one also?

i must be on crack..or drunk the time i wrote this...

by **Sauru** on Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:35 pm

well that would explain it lol

YouTube · by **shadowgrin** on Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:36 pm

^^ or retarded?

Saw a days old articleabout Stevie's return to Houston:

Steve Francis has spurned the Clippers, Heat and Mavericks to return to his original team, the Grizzlies err, the first team he ever played for, the Rockets.

A lot of people (including myself) figured Francis was a shoe-in to sign with the Clippers, where he would be reunited with man-friend Cuttino Mobley. But as FanHouse reader cdrive pointed out, Francis has a pretty good friendship with Yao Ming, as well, which may have been a factor.

WTF is that supposed to mean? :lol:

A user comment were strange as well:

2. Cuttino just slit his wrists in a tub of tepid water.

And a good one:

4. Welcome home Stevie! No hard feelings little fella, we still love ya! I am still the top dog, and Yao and I are now buddies too, he has grown so much while you were gone, so don't go getting your panties in a wad as the 3rd option, Remember the three Musketeers! OOOhh and please just one more favor, please pass the damn ball this time. Now lets go get our title.

Thanks your hommie.
T-Mac

by **Air Zoom Kobe I** on Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:20 am

Its_asdf wrote:
francis is widely hated cuz what he did to vancouver but ppl gotta let bygones be bygones.

Yeah, lets just let every player take advantage of their situation and just not report and then forget about it. Playing in the NBA is a privilege that Francis took advantage of. I could've understood (but I probably would've still hated him) if he was a free agent or something, but there are many less fortunate players out there and the guy got to be drafted as a lottery pick and not some second rounder who struggles to even make a team. He should've been more fortunate of the position he was in, and he got away without any punishment. It sickens me.

I'm sure that Francis has matured though. He's probably a lot more humble after sucking so hard because he didn't get the ball a zillion times a game like he usually did during his early Houston days. Maybe he's finally realized that dribbling the ball around the perimeter trying to be a human sportscentre highlight reel isn't going to do anything for his team...

If Charlotte let go of what Kobe Bryant did to them, Vancouver can let go of what Steve Francis did to them. Compared to what happened in Charlotte in '96 to what happened to Vancouver in '99, the results speak for themselves.

Francis is going to start. I believe he will be a 16/5/5/1 steal type of guy. 30% chance he's an allstar.

by **TheMC5** on Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:32 am

Air Zoom Kobe I wrote:
Its_asdf wrote:
francis is widely hated cuz what he did to vancouver but ppl gotta let bygones be bygones.

Yeah, lets just let every player take advantage of their situation and just not report and then forget about it. Playing in the NBA is a privilege that Francis took advantage of. I could've understood (but I probably would've still hated him) if he was a free agent or something, but there are many less fortunate players out there and the guy got to be drafted as a lottery pick and not some second rounder who struggles to even make a team. He should've been more fortunate of the position he was in, and he got away without any punishment. It sickens me.

I'm sure that Francis has matured though. He's probably a lot more humble after sucking so hard because he didn't get the ball a zillion times a game like he usually did during his early Houston days. Maybe he's finally realized that dribbling the ball around the perimeter trying to be a human sportscentre highlight reel isn't going to do anything for his team...

If Charlotte let go of what Kobe Bryant did to them, Vancouver can let go of what Steve Francis did to them. Compared to what happened in Charlotte in '96 to what happened to Vancouver in '99, the results speak for themselves.

Yeah, except Charlotte has a bit more basketball history than does Vancouver, and although the Hornets ended up moving, they didn't have to wait too long for the Bobcats. If Francis had played for Vancouver, I'd bet they'd still have a team, as they may have actually won some games. At the very least they would have had an exciting player.

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:16 am

Kobe Bryant didn't do anything to Charlotte as far as I can remember. The Lakers wanted him but didn't expect he would still be around at the 24th pick and thus made an arrangement with the Hornets to draft him and trade his rights for Vlade Divac. There have been whispers about his camp indicating to the Nets that he wouldn't play for them if they'd picked him at the 8th spot but there was never any public tirades or "Get me out of here" demands like Francis did in Vancouver.

by **Sauru** on Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:34 am

francis even said before the draft he would never play in canada.

Steve Francis Returns to the Rockets

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