the 07 ROCKETS thread

[---]

Assists are the direct result of good passing. Big men don't have equal oppurtunity to make a pass leading to a bucket compared to guards. The fact that there are alot of guards averaging less than what Shaq did makes that stat more impressive than moast people think.

Shaq has always been the go-to guy on all his teams (except Miami). Yao has always been at the most, a second option, hence the lower shot attempts.

[Zoom]

Assists are the direct result of good passing. Big men don't have equal oppurtunity to make a pass leading to a bucket compared to guards. The fact that there are alot of guards averaging less than what Shaq did makes that stat more impressive than moast people think.

Yes, they are a direct result of good passing but good passing doesn't indicate unselfishness. Think of it this way. Shaq gets his dimes because whenever he got the ball, teams would rotate onto him. A double team. What do you get when Shaq has two defenders? An open player for an open shot. Sure, it takes skill to make the pass to create a play to score easily off; good for Shaq... he's got court vision and players who can make the open shot.

On the other hand, Yao Ming gets the ball, he may not be able to set up the pass for the other player to score directly... that though doesn't mean he's unselfish. In fact, Yao Ming has often been criticised for passing out of good scoring opportunities. Players and Coaches have often stated that Yao needs to be a bit more greedy and take all his chances. I remember when Stevie used to be on the team, Van Gundy often wanted to run the offence through Yao. It never happened. Yao Ming has never ever shot mroe than 12 times a game until last season. And an increase in shot attempts a game is due mostly to the fact that TMac was out last season.

Yao Ming freely passing to his team mates even when the offence is run through him and playing unselfish basketball is not reflected through statistics.

Shaq has always been the go-to guy on all his teams (except Miami). Yao has always been at the most, a second option, hence the lower shot attempts.

Lower shot attempts and shooting at a better percentage is a result of better judgement therefore smart play and unselfish play.

Some quotes about Yao:

"He's a great player," the Rockets coach said after Sunday's 89-84 victory over Orlando. "Anybody who wants more from him is missing the whole point.

"If you want a poster child for what the NBA should be, it's Yao Ming. He's unselfish, totally loyal — to teammates, coaches, management. You never hear him say, 'My guys have got to get me the ball.' You never hear that.

I've always believed Yao was going to be one of best to play the game because of what he can do at 7-5. I think some tabbed him unfairly because he's not a Shaq, a player who will just mow you down inside. He's a finesse big man, a very unselfish player. His skills were on full display Sunday night.

[---]

I wont deny the fact that Yao is a very skillful passer, equal if not better than Shaq in fact. I just can't see why you called Yao more of a team player. Shaq has always been known as a good passer, and a great teammate. Is it because Yao is a nice guy? Is it because of the Shaq/Kobe fued? The simple fact his Shaq has been more of a team player than Yao throughout eithers career. Yao would often pass out of good scoring oppurtunities because up until recently, he was never a confident basketball player.

[Zoom]

Well bascially if you read I wrote:

Yao will probably remembered for the fact that he is more of a team player.

That's the truth. If Yao is great. At the end of all of it, he will be remembered as more of a team player when compared to Shaq. Shaq will be remembered for his dominance in the paint. Yao will be remembered otherwise. I'm actually complimenting Shaq in a way. It's just the truth. I wasn't taking anything away from Shaq.

[arrell]

Yao 34 points, 14 rebounds against Miami.
Shaq 15 and 10.

From USAtoday
Shaquille O'Neal was dominated, but he wasn't impressed.

Yao Ming won his matchup with O'Neal, finishing with 34 points and 14 rebounds Sunday night to lead the Houston Rockets to their fourth straight victory, 94-72 over the Miami Heat.

``He's pretty much the same, just big, 7-6,'' O'Neal said. ``He's just doing what he's supposed to do.''

Yao scored 20 points in the second half, when Houston outscored Miami by 25 points.

``My only chance against Shaq is to keep him on the run,'' Yao said. ``Shaq is much stronger and bigger than me. My only chance on beating him is to keep running and running against him.

``Every time I score on him I was happy like a kid, like a kid getting candy on Halloween because it's really too hard to score on him, too hard. He's just great.''

[Jackal]

Thats what Shaq said. I wonder if he says that about himself... 'I'm fat so I can take up space in the lane... thats what I do..' I know he wouldnt... he's just a bitch Yao is better than him, he just can't hack it.

If being fat was a skill, Robert Traylor would be one of the best big men in the league. Is that the case? No. He's just a bitch? He's the bitch you bitches' bitch piggybacked and won three championships. I just have to say "Look at the Finals MVP trophies", try denying Shaq wasn't the main bitch on that bitch of a team, bitch. Yao is indeed better than him now, why dispute that? I won't.

To go as far as calling Shaq a bitch though? As long as you have known Shaquille, that you would take anything he says seriously is something to scoff at. I totally disagree with the notion that Yao is not skillful and is only making use of his height. Two words come to mind if that were the case, Shawn Bradley. But I'm not flipping out because Shaq said it. It's Shaq. Need I say more?

Can't he just say Yao is better?

Will any aging former playboy to the ladies admit a new and suave not from his own country fellow is better? If the old playboy who doesn't mean shit won't do it, why expect it from Shaq who is so used to the "Best Center in the League" tag? I know you despise the fact because of your solid argument about him being a bitch, but let's be realistic here. Ten years from now when Bryan Mai Tai is dropping 75 points on the Lakers, will you ask Kobe the humble to say Bryan is better? Would you expect that from him?

Yao will probably remembered for the fact that he is more of a team player.

Really, what the hell are you on about? Shaq isn't a team player? You do realise that Shaq is one of the best passing big men in the game, right? As someone else reminded you, have you totally forgotten about the assists Shaq used to dish out? Let me put it this way, they used to play the triangle offense, Shaq would get doubled, he would pass to team mate A and team mate A would pass to team mate B to get the open score. Take Shaq out of that equation and you've got...hehe, you've got the Lakers now. His passing may not have shown up in the forms of assists, but a lot of people scored thanks to him. Not a team player? Who are you trying to convince? Schoolgirls?

In the season where he was closest to 4 assists a game, he was averaging 3.8 APG. In that season, Shaq averaged 21 shots a game and 10.4 from the charity stripe which indicates more shots than the 21 shots per game indicate.

The man led the league in field goal percentage, are you saying Phil Jackson is inadequate as a coach that he preferred to put the ball in Shaq's hands constantly? Yes, those stats just prove that Shaquille O'Neal is a ball hog and not a team player, don't make me pull out Kobe's stats on everyones ass.

Shaq has been lucky to have had good rosters and players to work with.

Seriously, who the fuck do you think you're talking to? You make this statement almost as if you're convinced it's Shaq's fault for having a good team around him.
See up for the statement about a lot of people scored thanks to him. A spot up shooter is good on his own merits but not constantly having a hand in your face or a body bumping you because your defender is hanging on Shaq's arm so that he can go brick free throws does help their scoring.

I would've gone on with the rest of your posts, but to be honest, these are the same arguments people like K08E4MVP used in a debate years ago. I'm not about to go in to this all over again, people tend to forget key things over the course of years and I'm not going to make it my task to remind people of the fact that Shaquille O'Neal shouldn't just be considered a "bitch" because of that mouth of his.

Have a nice day fellas.

[---]

Good post Jackal (I can't think of you as Don now). I agree, I think alot of people are forgetting how Shaq has always been known as a great passing big man and a great teammate. If Shaq is a bitch I don't know what that makes the rest of the league.

[Jackal]

I'm not disputing he has a mouth, but when you've achieved what he has, why not?

[MacGuyver]

``Every time I score on him I was happy like a kid, like a kid getting candy on Halloween because it's really too hard to score on him, too hard. He's just great.''

thAT shows how humble Yao is, is shaq ever that humble?

[theflash02]

i conclude that:

In the mid season.. Yao WILL get INJURED.. Either TMAC or YAO.. PERIOD


On Shaq vs Yao:

YAO is better than SHAQ!! Yao can score in the paint outside the paint by himself.. SHAQ mostly gets his points from passes.. When they play a 1on1 game.. I highly doubt SHAQ will win.. PERIOD

[Zoom]

If being fat was a skill, Robert Traylor would be one of the best big men in the league. Is that the case? No. He's just a bitch? He's the bitch you bitches' bitch piggybacked and won three championships. I just have to say "Look at the Finals MVP trophies", try denying Shaq wasn't the main bitch on that bitch of a team, bitch. Yao is indeed better than him now, why dispute that? I won't.

To go as far as calling Shaq a bitch though? As long as you have known Shaquille, that you would take anything he says seriously is something to scoff at. I totally disagree with the notion that Yao is not skillful and is only making use of his height. Two words come to mind if that were the case, Shawn Bradley. But I'm not flipping out because Shaq said it. It's Shaq. Need I say more?

With the calling Shaq a bitch part, I guess i sort of overreacted to what he said. I think Yao is better and all but he doesn't admit it. As you said, it's Shaq talking. You can have your own opinion and say that he has every right to say anything he likes and as you said, should I take anything he says seriously. My opinion though is that at the time I thought he was just a sore loser who had nothing better to say. perhaps that's a compliment to Yao but I overreacted. Now though, I guess I understand that it's not really any big deal.

will you ask Kobe the humble to say Bryan is better? Would you expect that from him?

I get your point. He wouldn't.

Really, what the hell are you on about? Shaq isn't a team player? You do realise that Shaq is one of the best passing big men in the game, right? As someone else reminded you, have you totally forgotten about the assists Shaq used to dish out? Let me put it this way, they used to play the triangle offense, Shaq would get doubled, he would pass to team mate A and team mate A would pass to team mate B to get the open score. Take Shaq out of that equation and you've got...hehe, you've got the Lakers now. His passing may not have shown up in the forms of assists, but a lot of people scored thanks to him. Not a team player? Who are you trying to convince? Schoolgirls?

I'm not saying Shaq is bad or he's a very very selfish player. I am very aware that the ball goes through him on nearly every play in every game. To get guys open and everything. I'm not saying he's not a team player. What I was trying to get across is that at the end of the day, Yao Ming will be remembered more as a team player than a dominant low post force (ie. Shaq). I'm not saying Shaq isn't a team player. All the arguements about Yao being unselfish was Flite saying Shaq has been more unselfish than Yao. If you watch games, Yao is very unselfish but I never said anything about Shaq not being selfish.

And I guess even if I said he was selfish, he had every right to be that way. And as i've said, in the end when someone says Yao and Shaq. First thing that comes to mind will be that Shaq will be remembered as the low post force and Yao will be remembered as an unselfish big man who had skills along with his 7-5 frame but didn't dominate the post like O'Neal did. That's how I see it, not my fault you either don't agree or understand what I'm trying to get across.

The man led the league in field goal percentage, are you saying Phil Jackson is inadequate as a coach that he preferred to put the ball in Shaq's hands constantly? Yes, those stats just prove that Shaquille O'Neal is a ball hog and not a team player, don't make me pull out Kobe's stats on everyones ass.

Right... you don't include the whole statement i wrote? Comparing Yao's shot attempts to Shaq. Flite_23 says: Shaq was more unselfish than Yao ever has been. I argue that that isn't true.

Also, you must think of me as some Kobe lover who can't see the truth. Well, let me tell you that Kobe has flaws as does everyone else. I think that fans of Kobe who don't see these flaws are just blind. So I will even tell you Kobe's flaws: Poor shot selection, Ego/arrogance and lack of trust in his team mates leading to and from selfishness. I am totally aware that Kobe has been and probably still is a ball hog in a way. Especially three seasons ago during the NBA Finals, I came to a painful realisation of how bad he had become in trying to go himself all the time. So I am totally aware of Kobe's ball hogging abilities.

Seriously, who the fuck do you think you're talking to? You make this statement almost as if you're convinced it's Shaq's fault for having a good team around him.

I was saying Shaq has been in teams where he has had a good bunch of role players/shooters. I've already said that he was able to get the double team and free up those guys. I never said it was Shaq's fault. In fact, I also undertsand Shaq's effect on the performance of his team mates. *Cough cough*... Damon Jones. However, I'm saying that Yao doesn't have spot up shooters on his team.

I'm not going to make it my task to remind people of the fact that Shaquille O'Neal shouldn't just be considered a "bitch" because of that mouth of his.

Yeah well, I'm not saying the player is bad... I just don't like his foul mouth. And I didn't like his comment about Yao; he was generalising that yao was only good because he was tall. I guess it's not in Shaq to directly compliment an opponent... so I guess it's just too bad for me isn't it?

[1CenT]

Mcgrady is forcing too many shots, he needs to watch some penny hardaway tape, mcgrady is a great shooter, still a very athletic player, and hes got length...

If he played like Kobe right now, 21points 50% shooting, he would be great...

I'll love to see Mcgrady averaging 23 points, 8 assists, 6 rebounds on like 45+% shooting..
And Yao bringing like 28/12 a night.

[MacGuyver]

we have a game tomorrow rocket fans, cheer for our team against the mighty spurs! goodluck

[Cloudy]

i conclude that:

In the mid season.. Yao WILL get INJURED.. Either TMAC or YAO.. PERIOD

Ha ha! Fuck you.

[CMJ3]

Yao had an off game. 6 rebounds for a 7-6 center is a bit weird. Mcgrady on the other hand played well 26 points 8 rebounds and 6 assists. Too bad the spurs won. Looks like they got more support from the bench.

[Matt]

Jeff Van Gundy sucks ass as a coach.

[Nel]

Jeff Van Gundy sucks ass as a coach.

I agree. He let that 19pt lead slip away. This guy doesn't know anything about adjustments. He really sucks. I am this close to believing that he really is not the right coach for this team. All defense but their defense cost them the game.

[Matt]

despite their low ppga, Houston isn't really as good as ppl believe. They just limit the possessions in the game.

Van Gundy should have called a TO when Spurs hit back to back 3's.

[MacGuyver]

well shall we start offerring rick adelman a contract?

[1CenT]

well shall we start offerring rick adelman a contract?

can you imagine the creative offense? having mcgrady, shane, bonzi get off to good starts, and yao is gonna give you the 25 points either way.. that'll be awsome

[kinokong]

no d though.... we saw how far a great offense got the kings to.... and are seeing how a good offense is leading the pistons

[Matt]

it's not like Rockets are playing good D now

[Laxation]

no d though.... we saw how far a great offense got the kings to.... and are seeing how a good offense is leading the pistons

detroit is hardly playing good offence...

[MacGuyver]

i'm sticking with JVG for now i guess

[Matt]

and a note on the Kings......trading Peja for Artest has turned the team from very crap on D to one of the better teams, Adelman never had that. He always had to coach fruit cake defenders.....Divac, Peja, Webber