IN THEIR PRIME, which big man was the best?

Shaquille O'neal

Arvydas Sabonis didn't have shit against SHAQ!

I'll give you a hint. TRY TO READ

Compare their stats then!

Judge players by the game of basketball and don't rate them high just because their Lithuanians. If they're good, ok then, but Shaq is better than Sabonis.

What has Dirk done again?

Just about everything KG has. Granted KG has won an MVP trophy but that doesnt mean Dirk doesnt deserve one. What exactly has KG done in the playoffs? Dirk wins that battle clearly. I would pick Dirk before KG any day

Has Dirk led the league in rebounds? How about double-doubles? Has he been on the All-Defensive teams? Has he led the league in efficency? Did he break Larry Bird's 20-10-5 consecutive season record? Nope. The guy is a great player on a great team with a great coaching staff. There use to be a time when Dirk Nowitzki couldn't win in the playoffs.

Dirk Nowitzki has always been on a more talented team than Kevin Garnett. Even in 2003-2004 the Dallas Mavericks have had more talent than the Wolves. Dirk Nowitzki has always been on a talented team that has always come short. For most of KG's career he has been on a less talented team that he helped turn into overachievers. Dirk's team has been unachievers for his whole career until this past year.

You would take Dirk Nowitzki over Kevin Garnett anyday of the week? Well, I will respectfully call you a dumbass.

lol riot, Garnett wouldn't have driven to the basket against the Spurs defense like Dirk did in the last possession in regulation in game 7

you need to declare some kind criteria with this Dirk vs Garnett debate. you just can't pick and choose whichever stats are in KG's favor and claim because of that, he's clearly the superior player

anywho

i would like to put the Dream at the head of this list. i don't think it's clear cut decision between him and Shaq. Hakeem did embarass Shaq in that one finals series, but as mentioned, Shaq had yet to hit his prime. But as mentioned by others already, Olajuwon did play in the last era of "great big men".

Shaq was probably the more "dominant" force offensively and some of the teams Hakeem played on did pretty shitty but Shaq was neither the defensive presence nor clutch player Hakeem was (several DPOY awards along with many 1st all Defensive team selections)

Wilt Chamberlain is clearly the single most dominant center in the history of basketball, but he lacks the defense and team play that Russell had, so in redoing my list of greatest Big Men ever....

Bill Russell
Wilt Chamberlain
Shaq
Hakeem
Kareem

Do you guys agree that Kevin Garnett is the far superior defensive player? Because if so, that is 50% of the game right there that Garentt has a head-start in.

Okay, you mentioned Dirk going right to the rim in a clutch situation. That was a great play by Dirk Nowitzki. I'm not denying that he is a great player and he is more "clutch" than Garnett simply because of his playing style. However, overall Garnett is the better player and he has had the better career.

Career numbers-
Dirk Nowitzki: 22ppg (46% FG), 8.5rpg, 2.5apg, 1spg, 1.1bpg
Kevin Garnett: 20.4ppg (49% FG), 11.2rpg, 4.5apg, 1.4spg, 1.7bpg

Dirk has the better playoff numbers but he also has had more weapons therefore creating less pressure. With that said, this year in the playoffs he has been amazing and you have to give him some major props. But you can't say he has had the better career because of this one postseason when you compare him to other postseason tries and his team grossly underachieved. He has had A LOT of talent on his team's in the past and never got the job done. If you are going to crictize Garnett for not getting it done with limited talent then you have to get on Nowitzki for not getting it done with a lot of talent.

hey i'm not picking one or the other. don't get me invovled.

i'm just replying to your remark of if KG was on the Mavs, they'd be in the same spot haha

so basically you're saying to determine which player is better, you can only look at individual stats, correct?

another question- not just to you but for anyone who would care to respond- if Dirk gets a championship, does that make him "better" then Garnett?

Wilt was by far more individually talented and skilled than Bill Russell, yet Bill Russell had the greatest basketball mind in the history of the game, along with the excellent team skills and 11 championships in 13 years.

So, often times, even though Wilt's numbers are never going to be touched, Bill Russell will be ranked higher.

It seems in this case that Garnett has probably a great heart for a competitor, but he's not as offensively talented, but yes he is a much better defender, but he isnt an unreal or even top 5-8 or even 10 low post defender like Russell was.

When KG blocks a shot he sends it into the 10th row, when Russell blocked a shot he sent it to a teammate on the fast break.

KG so far has had a more successfull career, he's been a perennial all star and the MVP, and he's feared for his versatility, but if from ten years from now Dirk has 2+ championships i think we'll look at Dirk as the better player. He's also only 27 verses 30, and Dirk is the kind of guy who will always have his shooting to fall back onto when he's 38, KG not so much.

Wilt was by far more individually talented and skilled than Bill Russell, yet Bill Russell had the greatest basketball mind in the history of the game, along with the excellent team skills and 11 championships in 13 years.

So, often times, even though Wilt's numbers are never going to be touched, Bill Russell will be ranked higher.

It seems in this case that Garnett has probably a great heart for a competitor, but he's not as offensively talented, but yes he is a much better defender, but he isnt an unreal or even top 5-8 or even 10 low post defender like Russell was.

When KG blocks a shot he sends it into the 10th row, when Russell blocked a shot he sent it to a teammate on the fast break.

KG so far has had a more successfull career, he's been a perennial all star and the MVP, and he's feared for his versatility, but if from ten years from now Dirk has 2+ championships i think we'll look at Dirk as the better player. He's also only 27 verses 30, and Dirk is the kind of guy who will always have his shooting to fall back onto when he's 38, KG not so much.

Well first off, Garnett is one of the most phyiscally gifted players in the game (maybe even history). He has the ability to dominate games. The problem with him is 1. his teammates can't get him the ball in the post because he gets fronted and then they also play behind him and 2. he is too passive and unselfish to try and demand the ball and take over a game offensively. If there is an open guy Garnett will find him. There are positives and negatives to that.

Secondly, people seem to forget that Garnett is one of the best shooting big men in the game today. Now, he is no Dirk Nowitzki but he does shoot 53% from the field and most of those are 18 footers (the only place he can get the ball). Dirk has more range, but Garnett also has range. I think the major difference and edge that Garnett has over Dirk is footwork in the post. There are many who consider Garnett to have the best footwork in the league.

You know, as sad as it is, I haven't even seen Kevin Garnett play. I've just seen highlights from ESPN and such. Garnett, as good as he is, you don't hear much about him. I guess you don't hear much because he plays for the T'Wolves.

Well, its Shaq 100 percent. When I look at his numbers for I center, I wanna die caus e there just unstoppable.

I wanna die caus e there just unstoppable.

Could I persuade you to look at his stats a tad longer than you usually do?

On topic: I think I have to say who I think is the better big man, even if it is all bias.

I think people are overrating Tim Duncan a bit. He hasn't played against any of the top tier centers in the league... he was more of an oversized power forward.

Here's my list....

Shaquille O'Neal
Hakeem Olajuwon
Karl Malone
David Robinson
Tim Duncan
Dirk
KG

I left Ewing off because I really don't know much about how he played... dont think I could give a fair judgement. I put Dirk over KG because I think this year Dirk has come into his prime, and this years playoffs and regular season has been better than any season KG has had. I don't care who he has around him... he almost always has to make his own shot. Jason Terry is no assist man. He's an all around good player this year, stepping up his defense, and carrying his team through the playoffs.

Hakeem vs Shaq.....Offense.....comparable....YES
Hakeem vs Shaq.....Defense.....comparible.....NO, Hakeem easily wins. He was just a complete defender......1-on-1, coming from the weak side, stealing the ball.

Hakeem posted 100 blocks + 100 steals in a season for at least 6 seasons. Excellent numbers for a C.

One can argue hakeem in his couple prime seasons was better than shaq's prime seasons...but consistency goes to shaq. His career as a whole has never really had any lows...compared to hakeem.

The best big men ever:

1.) Wilt Chamberlain
2.) Bill Russell
3.) Shaquille O'Neal
4.) Hakeem Olajuwon
5.) Kareem Abdul Jabaar
6.) Karl Malone
7.) Patrick Ewing
8.) David Robinson
9.) Tim Duncan
10.) Kevin Garnett

1. Arvydas Sabonis (in the 88-92, before playing in the NBA, he was the best center in the world, he outplayed all of the USA centers in the '92 Olypmics, it's just that he alone coudn't drag the team. That was told by many many experts, so this is not just my opinion)

Yeah, yeah I don't want to hear that shit. Olympic games, European rules. It isn't the NBA, and that's what we're judging this on. Arvydas was a great player, definitley one of the top 2-3 european players ever but he doesn't belong on this list. Not even close.

Hakeem ahead of Kareem? Whoa, any explanation as to why? Also the Ewing over Duncan is almost as absurd.

what happened to bill russell, chamberlain and all the other greats? is this 90s and on or something?

Shaquille O'neal

Arvydas Sabonis didn't have shit against SHAQ!

I'll quote]give you a hint. TRY TO READ[/
Compare their stats then!

Judge players by the game of basketball and don't rate them high just because their Lithuanians. If they're good, ok then, but Shaq is better than Sabonis.

*repeat*
I'll give you a hint. TRY TO READ

Why do I have to repeat myself? Read my replys and then MAYBE you'll undertand.

Why dont you read the responses to your reply?

Shaquille O'neal

Arvydas Sabonis didn't have shit against SHAQ!

I'll quote]give you a hint. TRY TO READ[/
Compare their stats then!

Judge players by the game of basketball and don't rate them high just because their Lithuanians. If they're good, ok then, but Shaq is better than Sabonis.

*repeat*
I'll give you a hint. TRY TO READ

Why do I have to repeat myself? Read my replys and then MAYBE you'll undertand.

I've already red your posts and they doesn't change my oppinion.
Why would i read them again? You're not a basketball professor

Hakeem ahead of Kareem? Whoa, any explanation as to why? Also the Ewing over Duncan is almost as absurd.

13 years in a row of 50% fgp or better is the main reason Hakeem is ahead of Kareem. Kareem was incredible, no question. But Hakeem revolutionized the Center position. He had the best footwork any Center has ever had, and he was a better rebounder then Kareem.

Ewing over Duncan is a pretty simple choice in my opinion. I think we are all caught up in Duncan because were in the moment with him. Ewing had injury problems over the course of his career, but he maintained his consistency for 13 seasons before you started to see any type of decline in his game. Duncan just finished his 9th season and we are already seeing a decline. It was all about consistency with Ewing, plus the fact that he was a better shot blocker and free throw shooter.

Shaquille O'neal

Arvydas Sabonis didn't have shit against SHAQ!

I'll quote]give you a hint. TRY TO READ[/
Compare their stats then!

Judge players by the game of basketball and don't rate them high just because their Lithuanians. If they're good, ok then, but Shaq is better than Sabonis.

*repeat*
I'll give you a hint. TRY TO READ

It doesn't seem that you read it, because you said to compare their stats.
Anyways, have your opinion, I have mine

Why do I have to repeat myself? Read my replys and then MAYBE you'll undertand.

I've already red your posts and they doesn't change my oppinion.
Why would i read them again? You're not a basketball professor

Hakeem Olajuwon
Shaquille O'Neal. He is almost useless in the 4th quarter, though, that's why I prefer HO over him any day
Tim Duncan
David Robinson
Patrick Ewing
Kevin Garnett

and...

Dirk Nowitzki. He is one of my first choices, but I don't list him above any of those players because he is a totally different type of player.

He can shoot 3's, his FT% is simply unattainable by most of the PF-C (s) in the league, if any... and his clutch factor is superior too. Game 6 vs SA, the 3-pointer vs Memphis G in game 3.., and his clutch plays in World Basketball Championship, are good examples

He is inmensely difficult to defend, causing headaches for every defender who tries to cover him

He lacks some inside game skills compared with KG, for instance, but he is an overall more talented player everywhere on the court. KG with better teammates would not have had such great overall stats. With a rebounder like Dampier around, he wouldn't grab 13 rebounds per game, for example

ewing over duncan? thats a joke. remind me, how many mvp's does ewing have again? how many final's mvps? oh thats right, he never won a championship, i'm sorry. Its not that people are overestimating duncan because he's playing in the present (in fact maybe you're overestimating ewing because he played in the past), its that people are understimating duncan because they're caught up in the stats. Block as many shots as you want, score as many points, and for what? duncan is a proven winner time and time again. ewing is to him as copper is to gold.

I also do not think duncan is declining. I think he had an off year, and I think he will bounce back next year, time will tell. Regardless even if he had an off year I would take his career over ewings any given day and christmas.

anyway, my greatest big would probably be bill russell, but from the list:
1. hakeem
2. shaq
3. duncan
4. robinson
5. garnett
6. ewing
7. nowitzki (1 great year doesn't put him over kg yet imo, show it to me again next year.... or win a championship. whichever comes first. with time and success he will undoubtebly leapfrog 5 and 6)

What has Dirk done again?

NBA FInals: Dirk 1, KG never...

I have shaq as the best centre ever, and only behind Russell (bill would be a pf in todays game) in terms of big men.

Last time I checked, it was the Dallas Mavericks who were in the NBA Finals, not Dirk Nowitzki alone. Because if my calculations are correct that means Dirk Nowitzki is a mere .08 percent of the team (or so). It helps when you have other teammates who can pick up the slack and play good, smart basketball (Terry, Harris, Howard, Stackhouse, etc) and a great young coach who has preached defense, something Nowitzki is just learning about. Not to mention the fact that Avery Johnson is an extremely smart coach, he also has the best coaching staff in the league.

So, don't try that stupid little "Dirk is in the NBA Finals so he is better" excuse. Dirk has always had a better team than Garnett but this is the first year he's getting the Finals because of Avery Johnson and the other guys who have brought defense to Dallas. Dirk, obviously, is a large part of what they do but don't think for a second that they wouldn't be where they are today if they had Kevin Garnett instead of Dirk Nowitzki.

you had to have expected some responce to your initial post about what has dirk ever done. you said that in defense of kg and really, its kg who has done nothing. i mean i like him and all but he has really done nothing. i think kg is overhyped and talked about way too much. i want to see him step up, take over the game in the playoffs, carry his damn team to a win and then come back 2 nights later and do it all again.