McGrady wants Jordan to start final All-Star Game

Fine...

Michael Jordan should not be starting in the All Star Game, if he was supposed to be, the fans would've voted him in as a starter. Vince Carter should not have to offer his starting spot, he got it, so he should keep it if he so wishes. Tracy McGrady and Allen Iverson may have been noble in their offers to Jordan, but it was disrespectful to the fans that wanted to see them start. Jordan's stats do not imply starter, let alone All-Star, but it's a popularity contest, not a productivity contest, and if the fans votes were the only thing that counted (I like this idea, have the top twelve vote recipients make the team), he would've made the team.

Happy now Bob?

Oh very....

Scub thinks I know nothing about basketball history...I didn't feel the need to prove anything to him because I'm confident that I have a very good knowledge of basketball history.

I don't think anything, you were the one who came and said you know nothing.

You didn't know that Dominique Wilkins came back in '98

don't know & don't remember are 2 things very different. I can't remember every single player for every season in every team, can you? Anyway, the problem I've been trying to explain to you is the meaning you have for retirement, Dominique was playing outside the league, that means he was not retired, when you retired, you don't continue playing, not only here but in any country. If you are retired, you are retired, that's it. A huge example of that is Sabonis, do you think he came back from a retirement?, no. He just came back to the league, he was playing somewhere else you might not know, but he just stopped playing in the NBA, he didn't retire. Alonzo Mourning is not retired, the fact that he's not playing doesn't mean that the player is retired.

Guys like Magic, who you completely left off the hook for something very similar...have done the same.

I don't have to repeat everything again, do I? Jordan will have reasons for a come back, and retire again, that's my point.

Michael Jordan should not be starting in the All Star Game, if he was supposed to be, the fans would've voted him in as a starter. Vince Carter should not have to offer his starting spot, he got it, so he should keep it if he so wishes.

That's basically what I was trying to explain.

Scub wrote:
Shane, the problem is MJ Fans are not going to change, even if you show them this is white, they will keep saying that's green,

So you're saying the argument will be circular and unending...?

you have seen my comments in other threads were you and Shane have started this neverending discussion

I think you finally got one point.

Seems T-Mac and the other East All-Stars are going to try one more to get Jordan to accept the offer:

McGrady, teammates hope to talk to Jordan Saturday

Yes, I think some of the East guys are up to do something else besides offering the spot to get MJ to the starting line up.

"We are going to do something and try to convince him as a team. That's all we can do and if he doesn't take it, we tried."

Would those guys get down on their knees and do their stuff?

Anyway, this is what MJ said bfore that.

Jordan said he doesn't begrudge Carter for not giving up his spot.

"It's a Catch-22," Jordan said last week. "If he gives up his spot, some fans will be disappointed. Even me accepting Tracy's or Allen's spot would make fans look bad. That's not the way it's meant to be. Keep it the way it is. There's no bad person in this whole scenario."

Would those guys as a team get down their knees and do their stuff?

Probably more along the lines of nagging pressure. The old "If you say 'Come on!' enough times, a person will eventually cave in" theory.

And again, to MJ's credit, he has politely declined the offers so far, so if the East All-Stars do try to offer him the starting spot again, chances are he will again decline.

*sigh* I've always said your debating skills suck...

Well this previous comment gave me a different impression...

You, on the other hand, should be able to recognize my side of the argument as you are more intelligent than you're letting on...I'm criticizing you because you can do better than saying MJ is the greatest blah blah stats blah blah rings blah blah popularity...you can form a much better argument than that, and then at the same time I expect you to see my point of view; people who are intelligent and skilled at debate, a category you obviously place yourself in, should be able to recognize the other side and make a rebuttal.

Well let's see what I gathered from this chore of a conversation...

You truly in your heart believe that I'm demeaning other members but what you've been doing are just observations about their ignorance and inability to think for themselves..

I'm violating guidelines but the rule you broke should be changed...

I'm arrogant...but your comments about how much more intelligent and knowledgeable you are than other people are just honest observations...

You pepper your posts with personal attacks about me being a prick...a fool...having sucky debating skills and more...but then you don't understand why I'm not being open to your opinions. Furthermore...I've refrained from attaching any demeaning labels to you or others or calling you any names but I'm the one being childish and immature about things.

...and you don't understand how this endless harassment of members who are talking about Michael Jordan is detracting from the conversation on the board?

And you really, truly believe these things...interesting. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree because you can't understand my point of view and I definitely don't understand yours. I will, however, ask you to lay off the "ignorant" people on the board who "can't think for themselves" and who just want to talk about their favorite player. Let them do so once in awhile no matter how inaccurate you see them as being. Things will be better...

Probably more along the lines of nagging pressure. The old "If you say 'Come on!' enough times, a person will eventually cave in" theory.

The more they push him, the more staunchly Jordan is going to refuse if he really doesn't want to start. Eventually things could get embarrassing. The guys made the offer...Michael said 'no thank you.' They should leave it at that.

Well this previous comment gave me a different impression...

Quote:
You, on the other hand, should be able to recognize my side of the argument as you are more intelligent than you're letting on...I'm criticizing you because you can do better than saying MJ is the greatest blah blah stats blah blah rings blah blah popularity...you can form a much better argument than that, and then at the same time I expect you to see my point of view; people who are intelligent and skilled at debate, a category you obviously place yourself in, should be able to recognize the other side and make a rebuttal.

I never said you were good at debate...I said you thought you were a good debater. I've never said you're an imbecile or anything of the sort...so my statements were accurate. I've always said your debating skills suck...

You truly in your heart believe that I'm demeaning other members but what you've been doing are just observations about their ignorance and inability to think for themselves..

Well...yeah, I do believe that. You're directing smartass comments making fun of others opinions, and I'm saying people are ignorant - I'm not using this negatively, it's not a bad thing to be ignorant - and can't form opinions of their own, and I'm right, and they are simply observations. When people are arguing using other people's as their own and not bringing anything fresh to the table, they AREN'T thinking for themselves...that's an observation, not a slam, and there's a huge difference.

I'm violating guidelines but the rule you broke should be changed...

Every single person on the board has violated that rule at least once - the swearing rule - and should be deleted if the guidelines are followed. The way the forum is moderated now is that if there is swearing present to belittle another forum member, that's cause enough for deletion. I don't know how you're not understanding this...

I'm arrogant...but your comments about how much more intelligent and knowledgeable you are than other people are just honest observations...

Where did I say I was more intelligent and knowledgable than the other forum members? Let's see...I didn't. I said that I formed my own opinions and avoid ignorant assumptions and statements...or something like that. There's a difference...apparently you think being ignorant is a bad thing, but it's not. I'm ignorant about cars, math, and what's going on in women's minds...does that make me stupid?

You, on the other hand, never admit when you're wrong and never even begin to attempt to understand anyone else's opinion because you're simply 'right.' Your posting style has an air of "I'm better than you guys" because you never listen to anyone's opinion. If someone refutes you, they're wrong, not you, no matter what they say. You're going to say I'm the same way, but I don't know how you'd know...you're not giving me anything that I could agree with.

You pepper your posts with personal attacks about me being a prick...a fool...having sucky debating skills and more...but then you don't understand why I'm not being open to your opinions.

You're a prick and a fool because you ignored my points and questions and tried your hardest to make me look stupid by quoting partial sentences and paragraphs and destroy the context and coherency of my posts. I called you the 'childish' names AFTER you refused to even attempt to listen and understand my point of view, so you cannot say that you don't listen to me because I'm mean to you; you don't listen to ANYONE. Scub didn't call you names, and he was wrong in this post and the post about Kobe Bryant and his arrogance...by the way, the arrogance you say Kobe and LL Cool J have? I get that impression about you...

Furthermore...I've refrained from attaching any demeaning labels to you or others or calling you any names but I'm the one being childish and immature about things.

...you started this entire thing with a childish, immature comment that was completely unneeded - NOT me. You're calling me childish and immature...the comments I'm making are more adult and witty...childish, immature insults would be making fun of your appearance or using curse words...I'm not making fun of you, I'm anlyzing you and telling you what I think with a negative slant to it...observations. I'm not out and out attacking you, I'm doing it in context...you call me childish, I'll call you a prick. You already think I'm childish, and that probably wouldn't change, so I might as well call you a prick or an asshole or whatever....

...and you don't understand how this endless harassment of members who are talking about Michael Jordan is detracting from the conversation on the board?

It only occurs when people bring up Jordan Haters, Jordan being the Greatest Ever, or when some fool writes a sentence poking fun at realistic Jordan fans...

And you really, truly believe these things...interesting. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree because you can't understand my point of view and I definitely don't understand yours.

Of course I believe them...agree to disagree? Pff. Not understanding your point of view? Your point of view is easy to understand, it's that of many people, and those many people repeat said point of view GOd knows how many times. However, you NEVER tried to understand my point of view, so how could you understand it if you never TRIED? You simply posted off of other people's arguments with me and didn't even read the initial posts - you even said you hadn't read the entire post. When I asked you specific questions, you ignored me. When I asked you to present a new perspective on why Jordan was so good, you didn't, you gave me the same stuff as everyone else, and then you can't understand why I said the same thing to you that I said to everyone else. Understand yet, or do you want me to draw a picture?

I will, however, ask you to lay off the "ignorant" people on the board who "can't think for themselves" and who just want to talk about their favorite player. Let them do so once in awhile no matter how inaccurate you see them as being. Things will be better...

Gee, thanks Dad. I never said people couldn't talk about their favorite player...they still do, correct? And I do let them do it 'once in a while'...but remember, I'm going to be a teacher...and what sort of teacher would I be if I let mistakes go by because it's just easier that way? Yeah, and we wonder why the U.S. sucks now a days....