bird slams pierce...

How many championships has Pierce won?

You can't be considered great, unless you win at least one. Or at the very least carry your team to the nba finals.

WOW. how many hall of famers did bird play with the whole starting 5 was good and they even had good players off the bench.

Now name another good player besides pierce of the same level on the celtics now. Jefferson,gomes,West none of them. lets put this to and end. Bird played on a much better team. he had all the help in the world, Pierce is a one man show with nobody else of his calibur around him.

you saying peirce is better than bird?

Bird had a three year run as the best player in the league. A five year run as one of the three best players.

Pierce has never even been the best player at his position.

Wait, has anybody actually argued Pierce is better...or are we all attacking a strawman.

WOW. how many hall of famers did bird play with the whole starting 5 was good and they even had good players off the bench.

1979 Boston Celtics' starting 5: Dave Cowens, Cedric Maxwell, Chris Ford, Jeff Judkins, Tiny Archibald
29 wins

1980 Boston Celtics' starting 5: Dave Cowens, Larry Bird, Cedric Maxwell, Chris Ford, Tiny Archibald
61 wins
See the difference?


on topic: Bird > Pierce

WOW. how many hall of famers did bird play with the whole starting 5 was good and they even had good players off the bench.

1979 Boston Celtics' starting 5: Dave Cowens, Cedric Maxwell, Chris Ford, Jeff Judkins, Tiny Archibald
29 wins

1980 Boston Celtics' starting 5: Dave Cowens, Larry Bird, Cedric Maxwell, Chris Ford, Tiny Archibald
61 wins
See the difference?

Wow I didn't know that, good stat

Lock the thread please, after Masilo's post it's over.

WOW. how many hall of famers did bird play with the whole starting 5 was good and they even had good players off the bench.

1979 Boston Celtics' starting 5: Dave Cowens, Cedric Maxwell, Chris Ford, Jeff Judkins, Tiny Archibald
29 wins

1980 Boston Celtics' starting 5: Dave Cowens, Larry Bird, Cedric Maxwell, Chris Ford, Tiny Archibald
61 wins
See the difference?


on topic: Bird > Pierce

great debut.../me hi-fives the rookie poster.

Thanks.

Actually it wasn't Bird all alone - the Celtics made a lot of changes in 1978/79: They swapped ownership, had two coaches (Dave Cowens took over as player-coach after 14 games), and had to fight with a lot of injuries.

In 1979/1980 with new coach Bill Fitch they were able to play to their full potential, but Bird's impact can't be denied.

Thanks.

Actually it wasn't Bird all alone - the Celtics made a lot of changes in 1978/79: They swapped ownership, had two coaches (Dave Cowens took over as player-coach after 14 games), and had to fight with a lot of injuries.

In 1979/1980 with new coach Bill Fitch they were able to play to their full potential, but Bird's impact can't be denied.

Well said, and I couldn't agree more.

WOW. how many hall of famers did bird play with the whole starting 5 was good and they even had good players off the bench.

1979 Boston Celtics' starting 5: Dave Cowens, Cedric Maxwell, Chris Ford, Jeff Judkins, Tiny Archibald
29 wins

1980 Boston Celtics' starting 5: Dave Cowens, Larry Bird, Cedric Maxwell, Chris Ford, Tiny Archibald
61 wins
See the difference?


on topic: Bird > Pierce

great debut.../me hi-fives the rookie poster.

Agreed. That definitely ended the argument

Masilo should be rookie poster of the year In other words, I hope you stick around.

LMAO, DaTruth36 trying to downplay it with that post.^^

Damn man, that really is funny isn't it?

Yup, it is. I like laughing at you.

Wow I didn't know that, good stat

That "stat" is being used in a slightly misleading way. As Masilo admits. Take a look at the top eight minute guys on each of the teams.

1979->1980
1. Maxwell (75.4% of minutes, 19.9 PER) -> Bird (74.3%, 20.5)
2. Ford (66.8%, 14.3) -> Archibald (72.0%, 15.3)
3. Cowens (63.9%, 15.2) -> Maxwell (69.0%, 19.0)
4. Archibald (42.2%, 13.1) -> Cowens (54.3%, 14.8)
5. Judkins (38.6%, 14.5) -> Ford (53.2%, 13.0)
6. White (37.0%, 10.2) -> Carr (50.2%, 14.6)
7. Rowe (31.0%, 7.7) -> Robey (48.2%, 12.7)
8. Chaney (27.3%, 9.7) -> Henderson (26.7%, 12.7)

Not only did the top eight guys play over two thousand more minutes , the average PER went from 14.2 to 16.2. Maxwell the teams best player became the teams second best player and fell to third in minutes. Only three players cracked 50% on the 1979 team, six did on the 1980 team (and Robey was close) while only one guy cracked 67% on 1979, three did on 1980. Cowens and Ford (second and third on 1979) fell to fourth and fifth. The upgrades from White and Rowe to Carr and Robey combined with more minutes for a better Archibald is almost as big as adding Bird for nobody.

The team also went from 19th on defense to 5th. 19th on offense to 1st.

Though, if you want to make the case that Bird made his teammates better, here's a good place for that argument. Using Dean Oliver's ORtg (the guy works for the Sonics if you want his to know his street cred) look at the changes in Bird's teammates from 1979 to 1980:
Maxwell: 121 -> 124
Ford: 102 -> 111
Cowens: 103 -> 104
Archibald: 100 -> 115
Judkins: 106 -> 110
(Of course...replacing White (90), Rowe (91) and Chaney (93) with Carr (105), Robey (109), Henderson (101) probably helped a ton...as did adding Bird's 109 for free...)

Bird certainly made the team better, and as I said he's certainly better than Pierce, but giving him all the credit for that turn around is like blaming Carmelo Anthony, Jason Kidd or Steve Nash only for their teams respective turns from lottery to good/great.

Damn, Benji, are you a statistician or an accountant by any chance?