Bogut-Watch

Like I said, I think the NBL lacks TV coverage because it lacks popularity, not the other way around. It lost TV coverage because people lost interest in the league.

The fact of the matter is, it hasn't been given a chance to rejuvenate any of that support. When was the NBA and NBL readily available on FTA? Mid 90's? Things change quickly, we've had the Olympics in Sydney where the Australian team was being shown against the likes of the US, we've had the Athens Olympics where there was more Australian basketball news on TV then I'd seen in a long time and now we've got an Australian being the #1 overall pick in the NBA Draft... TV channels actually interrupted their pre-scheduled shows to report that Bogut had been drafted. Things change, things have changed but it's all irrelevant if the sport isn't given another chance.

You can talk about the Australian idea that it's a "girly sport" all you like, but I think that's a cop out.

It's not an excuse for anything, it's just how people see the sport. Ask any regular bloke out on the street what he thinks of basketball and chances are he'll come out with something negative or clueless about it. I grew up in the country, I've been to 8 different schools in 2 states and 2 different countries so I'm not exactly basing this off nothing.

Replays aren't the same as live TV. You're never going to have the same popularity there. I think most sports fans will agree that watching a game that you already know the result of is about 10 times less fun than being on the edge of your seat not knowing who will win.

Of course replays aren't the same, but it's not as if basketball would be the only sport replayed. Both rugby league games shown on FTA TV are delayed by hours. There is actually the chance that the result will be given away on a different networks channel before the game is actually shown. Also, the kind of people basketball in this country needs to attract to be successful isn't people like us. It's the borderline viewers who make the ratings, they're not exactly going to be online looking at boxscores are they.

In the early to mid 90s there was heaps of hype about basketball. People were interested. The real problem was it was a wave riding on the back of one man: Jordan. Perhaps the NBA is somewhat to blame for that, because at the time their international marketting attempts were not what they are today, they didn't cash in on the interest Jordan sparked and market the game rather than just one man.

As I said, things change ... but also, they could easily ride the Bogut bandwagon if he starts doing well in the NBA. There's always huge sporting interest in Australian athletes no matter what sport it is. The new age viewers (if the NBA or whatever was re-introduced to FTA) most of them won't have seen Jordan play. It's a different NBA now, things change.. this isn't the mid 90's so the same reasons can't apply.

Coverage: enthusiasts aren't enough for free to air coverage. It's on pay TV, which is where a niche market like basketball in Australia belongs.

The problem is, no one's bothered even trying to introduce basketball back in the mainstream since the mid 90's. There's been so many opportunities, and unfortunately with the way things are in this country you have to catch that bandwagoning wave to make something successful. They need to attract the casual TV viewers who probably don't know the first thing about the NBA, and that's just not going to happen any time soon but the opportunity is there. Look at the amount of interest Bogut has generated in the last few days, I've never seen basketball on the news so much in years.

Respect: When (if?) the NBL gets its act together, maybe it will get some respect. Historically it's been a bit of a joke of a competition. I think it's got a long hard road ahead of it, given its only household name (Andrew Gaze) has retired. It's basically unmarkettable at this point.

That's exactly right, it's just been in the gutter for too long and it's getting to a point where it can't really be salvaged. The NBA however CAN be marketed, I know it's probably not a good thing but they could so easily ride Bogut if he plays well and people would watch it.

I'm not sure what you expect. Channel 10 to show games even though they don't rate? Why would they do that? Especially since they can just show more crap like Big Brother which is cheap as all hell to make and rates its arse off. People to suddenly convert to basketball? Do you understand the sporting culture at all in this country? People follow the sports their parents follow, which is one or more of cricket, supercars, league, unions or aussie rules. Plus tennis if you're a chick and golf if you're rich or have illusions of sophistication.

This is where the main problem lies. As soon as anyone mentions showing basketball on FTA television people automatically think Channel 10 or the ABC. If it's to be done properly it needs one of the big two of Nein or 7 to pick it up, which of course isn't going to happen so the whole thing basically falls on it's face before it starts. Channel 10 is nothing more then a novelty, people would expect to see a "novelty" sport like basketball there. Maybe if it was on a recognized sporting channel it would garner more respect. Showing games at a decent time would probably help too, no one's going to watch a fledgling sport at 11 in the morning on a Sunday when AFL and NRL matches are going to be screened.

But I'm realistic about what I'm actualy going to get to see.

So are we, if you read the thread (and other threads where this discussion has begun) you'll notice none of us actually expect anything to happen. It won't stop me complaining about it.

It's asking for too much to expect this country to pick up basketball and run with it in a serious way. They just don't give a shit. They have their high rating sports in AFL, NRL and to a lesser extent Yawnion so why even try giving basketball a chance. The only logical reason I can think of is if Bogut surprisies everyone and becomes a star. That's the only thing that'll get this backwards country going, one of it's own making it big in someone elses league.

I think there's a little bit of chicken and the egg there. Declining interest may have led to the FTA networks (the NBL was last shown on FTA on ABC, if I recall correctly) abandoning their coverage, but abandoning the coverage did nothing to increase the interest and popularity of the league.

Yeah I know the ABC picked it up, but lets face it, once you're relegated to a network that lists netball and law bowls as their top sporting events you're struggling.

It probably is a bit of a chicken and egg situation, but my point was the NBL once had coverage and blew it.

I agree that the NBL doesn't market itself well. Ads here in Newcastle for Hunter Pirates games often use the tag "A great family night with a game of basketball thrown in". While that appeals to the casual fan, it doesn't give the league or for that matter the game much credibility. You won't get any arguments from me there.

They've been using that strategy for years though. I've only ever been to one NBL game, in the late 80s (heh, the Westside Melbourne Saints, ah memories). It was marketted as a "family" thing back then, some kids get in for free weith adults thing, I can't remember. Anyway, the atmosphere absolutely sucked, mostly because most people didn't understand the game. When you compare it to an AFL (I guess VFL back then) game, it's just a joke. A dead crowd in comfortable seating vs 30,000 people packed in like sardines at Windy Hill all one eyed Bombers supporters is no comparison. I can't imagine anyone going home from such a game and thinking "gee, live basketball is great, I'm going to go every week". Like you say, image problem.

Right again, replays and recordings aren't as exciting as live coverage because chances are you know the result or at least are aware that the outcome has been decided when you watch it. But as I said, I think a late night slot will still appeal to the hardcore basketball fans. Having some FTA coverage is more likely to draw a following than no FTA coverage at all.

Late night is given over to infomercials for cost effective purposes and complete crap that happens to be Australian and hence meets stations minimum obligations for local content. No way are they going to pay good money to put the NBA on in a dead timeslot. It wont happen until the NBA comes to the party and works out a way to get greater coverage over here.

Well I probably can't as I do have Foxtel. But the justification I'd offer is that there are a lot of basketball fans in Australia, not everyone has Foxtel and that's the only place to get any basketball coverage. Though with free to air right now, reality TV rules all, even quality scripted television (your sitcoms, your dramas etc) are pre-empted in favour of Big Brother and so on. It's ridiculous how FTA networks hold back new episodes of shows, interrupting the season run to show a bunch of reality shows that continue to drop in the ratings year after year.

It's not just about raw ratings anymore, it's about who's watching and how much shows cost to produce. Reality TV is cheap, live sport is expensive to buy the rights to. Reality TV attracts a young impressionable audience who have proven their willingness to throw money away by the amount of money they waste voting, which is what advertisers want.

As far as the NBA's concerned, I guess you could say apathy. But talking about the sport in general, it goes beyond the professional game. Obviously, the professional leagues have quite an impact on the profile of the game but people discredit the game in general. That's really what I mean about the sport of basketball not getting the respect it deserves, some of the criticisms people I know make of the game are quite ignorant. Needless to say it doesn't stop me being a fan or diminish my love and appreciation for basketball, but as someone who holds basketball in very high esteem I hate to hear some of the ridiculous things people say about it.

I can sympathise with that, after all I'm a Victorian and diehard AFL follower who lives in Queensland.

Most people know jack all about the sports they don't personally follow. I don't think you can really take their criticisms of basketball too seriously. It's really no different that a diehard fan of one team talking crap about other teams. Some people are very partiotic about their chosen sport, as well as their chosen team. Just like you'll never turn a diehard lakers fan into a celtics follower, you shouldn't be aiming to convert diehard rugby fans into basketball nuts. It's the people who take a passing interest in many sports who you've got to aim for, as well as the impressionable kids (which is where a strong Australian league, where kids could barrack for their local team, would be a huge plus).

I do understand the way sporting culture works, though as a country that loves sport I don't get why basketball is so hated. I admit I'm biased, but I consider it to be a great game, it's a spectator sport that's got a huge worldwide following so it's not as though basketball fans are some weird cult. I suppose one reason it hasn't been adopted is because it's not "Australian", but then neither are the sports we consider to be "ours". As you mentioned before, success is another factor but I still think that's a weak excuse for people to bag basketball, going against the whole ideals regarding underdogs and "battlers".

It's not "not-Autralian", it's "American" (at least in most people's eyes). With the rise in anti-Americanism over the past decade or so, it's natural people are going to feel less inclined to take an interest in sports seen to be American. There are other factors too I'd guess. Being an indoor sport in a country that's historically been outdoors loving (largely due to climate) may be one of them. Maybe the fact basketball is much more individual oriented than most of our popular team sports has something to do with it.

However, I think it's mostly that the sporting niches in this country are pretty much full. Cricket and to a lesser extent tennis and golf in the summer, and take your pick of the football codes in the winter. Throw in car racing all year round, and I think you've goit a tough sell. I mean, America has a big four of baseball, basketball, ice hockey and american football. Australia has a big four of cricket, league, union and aussie rules. Not much different there.

How about a recap show, NBA Action being the obvious choice? Surely, that level of coverage would go a little way in satisfying rabid basketball fans that don't have pay TV.

I'd love it, but I think it really comes down to the economics of it. The ball is probably in the NBA's court on this one. Figuring out some way to give a station cheap NBA coverage could be a major win in the long term for them I'd think. I don't think the networks are going to pick up coverage at market rates though, since I doubt that would make economic sense for them. Look at the situation with the AFL for example: 9 & 10 have the rights to the AFL, they're broadcasting them in Melbourne anyway so it costs them absolutely nothing to show the game live in the Northern states. They still only do so when it suits them (usually because Sydney or Brisbane are playing). They'd rather show something else that more people might watch.

The AFL is aware of this situation and next broadcasting agreement they're willing to accept a bit less money if it means live broadcasts. If the NBA is serious about this global game push they talk about, they should be doing the same sort of thing to get the game shown in countries like Australia.

Anyway, back to the subject of Bogut ...

Does anyone think he's really going to make a difference in markettingthe game in this country? I can't really see it, because on what I've seen, he doesn't fit any of the stereotypes that Australians go for in their massively popular sports stars:

* Larger than life personality: always in the news, for good or bad, for sport or personal reasons. Examples: Shane Warne, Jason Akermanis.

* Humble boy/girl next door: Great results, but it totally self depricating about it, down to earth, appealing to the Aussie idea of the stars just being "top blokes and good sorts". Examples: Cathy Freeman, Adam Gilchrist.

* Aussie batler: not always the most talented, but a real fighter who wants to win more than anything. Examples: Steve Waugh, Lleyton Hewitt.

It seems like most of the huge stars fall into one of these three categories. I don't think Bogut is enough of a fighter to fall into the batler category. I don't think he's talented enough, nor humble enough, to fall into the boy next door. And I can't see him being controversial enough to be larger than life (especially by NBA standards!). So where's the marketting hook on this guy? He's a solid but not flashy player with a fairly normal, if unexciting, personality.

Well he's kinda been fitting your first category so far... he's managed to create controversy over Kobe Bryant, and only today I think it was Chris Anstey and Luc Longley came out saying he should prove something before he starts running his mouth about players who have already been there and done it. His personality in itself isn't larger than life, but his comments are usually pretty newsworthy.

Good points. Perhaps we don't all take into account the financial situation involved, though it's frustrating to see the networks focusing on reality TV not just instead of NBA programming, but a lot of good shows both imported and home made. Aside from the NBA coverage, one of the reasons I got Foxtel is because I'm sick of free to air's lineup save for the new episodes of The Simpsons (which Ten has the rights to screen before FOX8). But even those are being pre-empted right now.

Getting back to Bogut, I think he can make a difference in marketing the game, beginning with selection at number one. Lauren Jackson went number one to the WNBA, but with all due respect to women's basketball the NBA and the men's game does have a much higher worldwide profile. Now that an Australian will be joining the ranks in such an impressive fashion - taken before any other player in the annual college draft - that's going to grab some attention.

Interesting question about the marketing hook though, good assessment of the three angles the Australian sports media loves to use. Of those three, I'd say the one he's closest to is the Aussie Battler, because of the criticisms he's faced and perhaps even his former coach making remarks in what seemed to be an attempt to derail his NBA career.

The angle I think they'll use is that he's carrying Australian basketball on his shoulders against the juggernaut of American basketball. Even though the USA placed third in the Athens Olympics in the basketball tournament, their all-time record is extremely one-sided and the NBA is widely considered to be the top league on the planet. "Andrew Bogut, beating the Americans at their own game." Obviously, it's sensationalised and it's not likely he's going to be Shaq From Down Under. But I can see that being the angle they'll use.

Looks like Bogut will be wearing #6 in the NBA, since #4 is retired by the Bucks...

Well he's kinda been fitting your first category so far... he's managed to create controversy over Kobe Bryant, and only today I think it was Chris Anstey and Luc Longley came out saying he should prove something before he starts running his mouth about players who have already been there and done it. His personality in itself isn't larger than life, but his comments are usually pretty newsworthy.

It would be contraversial at this point if someone came out and said "Kobe Bryant is the ultimate team player. He makes everyone around him better." I don't think it's that contraversial to criticise Kobe at this point.

I guess my question about his marketability is really can you see kids looking at him and saying "I want to be like Bogut when I grow up"? I can't really see it, he's just not that sort of player. It's not a criticism of him, I just don't see his game generating any real excitement, nor do I see him as enough of a personality to generate hype on his own. I mean, look at the draft comparison: Vlade Divac. A good player in his prime, sure, but I doubt anyone in their life has gone along to a game because they were excited about getting to see Vlade play.

Maybe I'm wrong, I dont know, but even assuming he turns out to be real good, can you market 10 rebounds, 20 points in solid but unspectacular jumpshots and layups, and a few solid passes a night? Unless you're Tim Duncan lead-your-team-to-the-title-and-win-MVP good, I don't really think so. Doesn't exactly scream sports tonight "play of the day" to me.

Well he's kinda been fitting your first category so far... he's managed to create controversy over Kobe Bryant, and only today I think it was Chris Anstey and Luc Longley came out saying he should prove something before he starts running his mouth about players who have already been there and done it. His personality in itself isn't larger than life, but his comments are usually pretty newsworthy.

What did he say about Kobe???

What did he say about Kobe???

Typical stuff... he's a ballhog... can't get his team to win all by himself... you know... the truth.


Who wore #4 for the Bucks, anyway...?

Junior Bridgeman whoever that is.

Sit? He was a hater til he bandwagoned.
I was saying Bogut would be number 1.

Hell naw... I actually read about him half a year or even a year before he went to the Olympics. I remember clearly statting how Aussie bball might be revived and he was Australia's next big thing. I never hated on him but I don admit I did doubt his ability.

And about FTA Tv and Bball.. the Australian Government revises its FTA policies every once in a while and sport is an important thing on the agenda. They have this 'list' that lists what is to be put on FTA and cable... Basketball is off the FTA list until 2007 at least because last year when the list was reviewed, basketball wasnt popular enough.

Bogut a multimillionaire with new contract
July 2, 2005

MILWAUKEE (AP) -- The Milwaukee Bucks signed the NBA's No. 1 draft pick Andrew Bogut to a multiyear contract Friday.

The 20-year-old Australian, who was college player of the year at Utah last season, will take part in the Bucks' summer camp workouts and play in the Minnesota Summer League July 15-19, general manager Larry Harris said.

``This is a dream come true for me,'' Bogut said. ``I've worked extremely hard to get to this point and I'm honored to be a member of the Milwaukee Bucks organization.''

ADVERTISEMENT
The Bucks did not reveal the details of the contract for the 7-foot-1 center.

Although the exact figures won't be known until after the NBA's new collecting bargaining agreement is finalized, Bogut's agent David Bauman said he expects Bogut to get around $4.2 million in his first year, $4.55 million the second year and $4.85 million the third year.

The figure should go to about $6 million in the fourth year, the team's option year, he said, while a fifth-year qualifying offer would be 30 percent higher than the fourth, or $7.8 million.

Bogut has formed the Andrew Bogut 4 Foundation to help underprivileged youths in Australia, Croatia, Utah and Milwaukee. He is of Croatian descent and played college basketball at Utah.

Harris said the team expects ``a long and promising career'' for Bogut with the Bucks.

Bogut has said he's not afraid of the expectations he faces as he joins a team coming off its worst record (30-52) in nearly a decade.

Harris now will focus on re-signing top scorer Michael Redd and other free agents, and hiring a replacement for Terry Porter, the second-year coach who was fired last week.

Longley and Anstey are white stiffs who should keep their mouths shut

He also said he is better then shane heal and andrew gaze lol...

didn't he just say he was the best australian collegiate bball player ever? if that's all he said, then that's a true statement....he's not a better player than Gaze or Heal yet as he needs a long career to surpass those guys....he will definitely be a better NBA player than any previous Aussie....he needs to play a lot of internationals for Australia to be considered better than Gaze and Heal in that respect....

I would really like to see Bogut do well. I think he seems like a really genuinely good guy.

"I hope the tall poppy syndrome hasn't started already," Bogut said.

He apologised to Andrew Gaze and Shane Heal after calling himself "much more a winner than those other" Australians who had played in the NBA, including Luc Longley, who won three championships with the Chicago Bulls.

Bogut said he was trying to contact Longley, who lives in Western Australia, to apologise.









"I have a lot of respect for those guys but it came out as if I don't and I'm pretty pissed off about that, as I'm sure they are with me," he said. "It's not what I meant."

The feisty Heal, with whom Bogut roomed in Athens, was "pretty disappointed with what he read, and he let me know it, especially since he was mentoring me at the Olympics".

"But he and Gazey both said, 'Don't worry about it and move on'," he said.

Bogut, the college player of the year in the US with the University of Utah, said if it were not for Longley, Gaze and Heal, he may never have fulfilled his dream.

"Think about it, they paved the way for me to get here. Without those guys, I probably wouldn't ever have thought of coming here and I would've just tried to make it in the (NBL)," he said.

Bogut also wants Australians to know that his loyalty will always be to his country.

When asked whether he would choose an NBA championship over an Olympic gold medal, Bogut quickly nominated the gold medal because, he said, "there's no greater honour than representing your country".

Sounds like a henuine apology to me.

Thanks for making me millionaire
By Nick Papps in New York
28jun05

ON the eve of becoming the No. 1 rookie basketballer in the world, Andrew Bogut has a message for the Aussie coaches who didn't think he was good enough.

"Thanks for this guys," Bogut said yesterday.

Just 48 hours from being the No. 1 draft pick in the NBA and an instant multi-millionaire, Bogut has singled out two junior coaches who dropped him from their teams, broke his heart and helped him become the most sought-after rookie basketballer in the world.

"Without them I wouldn't be here," the 20-year-old Victorian told The Daily Telegraph in an exclusive interview. "That was the turning point in my career."

Bogut, who grew up in the Melbourne suburb of Endeavour Hills, said that the coaches who cut him when he was 14 from the Dandenong Rangers under-16 team and the state junior team when he was 15, had inspired him to become the best.

"They did it," he said. "It really made me work hard to be better than everybody else. I worked harder than any young basketballer in Australia."

After that early setback, Bogut fought back to make the Australian junior team, the Australian Olympic team and play two seasons for the University of Utah where this year he was named the best player in US college basketball.

Tomorrow Bogut is set to be selected by the Milwaukee Bucks when they get the first draft pick in the NBA.

Bogut will pocket an estimated $15 million in the deal and land another $4 million in sponsorship and he said he couldn't wait to hear his name called.

"I will be set up for the rest of my life," Bogut said. "I've been waiting for the day ? waiting to get it done."

Bogut, who spent the weekend relaxing with his parents in New York, said he would be signing with sportswear giant Nike, in a contract believed to be worth several million dollars.

Contracts would also be signed with several companies in Croatia where Bogut is popular, due to his Croatian-born parents.

But despite the millions of dollars pouring into his bank accounts, Bogut told The Daily Telegraph that there would be no crazy spending sprees.

"I just want a nice car and a nice house," he said. "I want to get a Monaro ? I'll get one in Australia. I'm looking at a Merc over here. I want something safe."

When Bogut is drafted he will become an instant celebrity across the United States but the level-headed star said that he planned to keep his feet on the ground and avoid the off-court misdemeanors which have plagued several NBA stars.

"I will have to be careful on and off the court," Bogut said. "You see players get in trouble with the law ? I can't take anything for granted.

"I'm not going to be straying off the court. I'm not some gangster ? I'm going to lay low, be a family-type guy, not be stupid with it, do something stupid with girls or drugs and be on the front page of the New York Times."

And Bogut may soon have his parents Anne and Michael at his side permanently to keep him out of trouble with the basketballer admitting he's been talking about bringing them to the US to live.

He said his father, who owned a carburettor store in Melbourne for 20 years, had been a major factor in driving his career.

"He's worked hard all his life," Bogut said. "It would be great to have them here, but it's up to them if they want to.

"We're still talking about that."

Bogut said that he still fondly remembered growing up in his home town of Melbourne.

"It's unbelievable," he said. "When I was 11, I would play pool against my father for ages. And I would get so p..... off if I lost I wouldn't talk to him and he would understand. That's my competitive nature. Whenever I would play anything I would get so mad."

Now, nine years later, Bogut stands on the edge of basketball greatness, becoming the first Australian to be selected number one in the NBA draft.

"It's going to be a bit of history. I am the first guy to do it," he said.

- Sorry Jae for posting but I thought this would be an interesting read for ppl who dnt know Bogut's history.

Why are you saying sorry lol this is a Bogut thread

its was sorta ur idea dude.

btw, u keepin this updated everygame? make it a sticky.

Yeah I'll probably sticky it once the season starts. Summer league starts soon aswell.

Some other news: Australia's 4 nations series which also features China is to be played in sydney and melbourne I think. Yao Ming is probably going to be there and Andrew Bogut and the Bucks are making a decision whether he will play for Australia. So we could see Yao v Bogut next month.

Michael Redd going to re-sign with Milwaukee, his agent mentions Bogut...

AP NewsBreak: Redd agrees to re-sign with the Bucks
By LARRY LAGE, AP Sports Writer
July 7, 2005

Coveted free agent Michael Redd agreed Thursday to re-sign with the Milwaukee Bucks, choosing to stay with the only NBA team he's played for over LeBron James and the Cleveland Cavaliers.

``He's going to get a max deal in Milwaukee for $90-96 million, depending on what the cap is, over six years,'' Redd's agent, Kevin Poston, told The Associated Press early Thursday afternoon. ``Michael started his career in Milwaukee and hopes to end it there, too.

``It was a tough decision between the Bucks and the Cavaliers, but Michael's heart is in Milwaukee and he's excited about his future there.''

ADVERTISEMENT
click here
Redd, who was the top remaining free agent available, met with James and Cavs officials in Cleveland on Wednesday, one day after meeting with the Bucks.

The 6-foot-6 shooting guard averaged a career-high 23 points, 4.2 rebounds and 2.3 assists last season. He has averaged 17.7 points while making 39.4 percent of his 3-point shots since Milwaukee drafted him in second round, with the 43rd overall pick, in the 2000 NBA draft.

Poston said Redd, who turns 26 in August, is excited about playing with former Utah center Andrew Bogut, the No. 1 pick overall in last month's draft, and for the Bucks' next coach.

``Michael had Andrew have spoken at great length, and are really looking forward to starting something special in Milwaukee,'' said Poston, an agent based in suburban Detroit. ``We also know who the Bucks are focused in on to be their next coach, and Michael is very comfortable with him.''

The Bucks signed Bogut to a multiyear contract last week, and have been searching for a new coach since firing Terry Porter last month.

This was in an article about TJ Ford returning... Bogut plays his first summer league game tomorrow...

Ford also enjoyed playing in the same fivesome with Bogut, the 7-foot-1 center who will get his first taste of the NBA this weekend in the Minnesota Summer League.

"It don't take me long to get to know somebody," Ford said. "He's great. I'm going to vouch for him and say he'll be rookie of the year.

"I'm putting it on the line. He's got great hands, good footwork, left hand, right hand, passing skills. He's got everything a big man needs. He's only going to get better."

Ford said it is no longer the spinal cord bruising he's worried about, as he did for many months, because that has healed and doctors have pronounced him fit to play. Now he must gradually get into game shape after a layoff of more than a year.

"I'm still steps off," Ford said. "I'm doing some good things, but there are some things that I know I'm not doing good at. It's just playing against guys and being patient.

"Two more hard months, two more months. There are so many NBA guys there (in Houston). We all laugh and joke, but when it comes down to getting a workout, I'm working out against the best guys. Sam (Cassell), Steve Francis, Nick Van Exel, Damon Stoudamire.

"I feel that's a better environment for me to be in, around the best players."

On to Minnesota: While Ford heads back to Texas, the other Bucks players in camp are preparing for the five-day Minnesota Summer League. The Bucks open play at 7 tonight against the host Minnesota Timberwolves at the Target Center in downtown Minneapolis.

Other teams in the league are the Houston Rockets, Indiana Pacers, Toronto Raptors and New York Knicks.

Former Ohio State player Scoonie Penn and former Marquette star Cordell Henry will play at point guard for the Bucks' summer camp team, and ex-Vermont guard T.J. Sorrentine will help out after being added to the roster Thursday. Reece Gaines, who finished last season on the Bucks' roster after being obtained in a deal with Houston, and former Wisconsin star Kirk Penney will play at shooting guard.

But the primary focus will be on Bogut as he goes against other top young players for five successive games.

"My expectation is more on how he plays," Stotts said. "I won't get caught up in how many points and rebounds. It's important for him to learn what he can get away with; he's a smart player.

"I remember when Tim Duncan came into the summer league in Salt Lake City as a rookie. I think he probably had an average summer league, but it was invaluable to him for the process he went through.

"My concern (for Bogut) is picking up the NBA game defensively. I'll probably be looking more at the defensive end and the rebounding end. I think everybody knows he's a skilled offensive player, and that will take care of itself."

How bad the Australians would look if Bogut turns out to be the next Kwame Brown