Nash is no MVP

[Jowe]

Wow, there's many fucken haters on this forum.

The MVP of the league shouldn't be the player who is most valuable to his team.

You're an idiot.

Shouldn't be the most valuable to his team?
Gee, mvp does stand for most valuable player for a reason.


Nash is excelling at what a pg is suppose to do. Setting his teammates up, making sure the offence is scoring.

Duncan and KG do what they have to do for their positions. Fill out the stat sheets

But imo nash is the mvp atm, with probably duncan/james next.

Kg shouldn't be mentioned because his team is blowing chunks atm.

[Ataraxia]

put Nash in Dre's Cavs days n he'll be nothing but a poor man's Jason Hart.....he has so many options, Kidd just had 2 options but he use to get 10 assists a night....so its not like halleujah for him to have 11....
I know u guys r gonna say Dre had to do everything for the Cavs....but then how does that relate to so many assists per game....what not like Ricky Davis = Q-Rich, Lamond Murray = Joe J, Big Z = Amare????

hes no MVP, hes just a mental boost......Brevin Knight is averaging 9.2 per game having only Emeka Okafor and Gerald Wallace to practically pass to.....

yeah the Suns may suck without him.....but so do alot of teams without their star players....another thing the Suns have is their still all learning...none of them except maybe Marion have hit their "best days".....

bah.......we to this.....theirs gonna be a 101 topics before the season ends abt why this guy should be MVP......

[air gordon]

tPick-n-roll huh? Could it have possibly been Utah's best offensive player, Karl Malone? Regardless, I stand by my point that Nash, who isn't exactly guarding Paul Pierce or Tracy McGrady, is a liability, and the two examples you brought up were not.

i could go back and name many games/series where the aforementioned 2 would get toasted by their assignments but i guess this is difference of opinion.

regardless, my point is the mvp can be someone who isn't a defensive stalworth.

Exactly, team defense shouldn't be a factor, so the point that Phoenix isn't a defensive-playing team is irrelevant. Nash still stinks at half of what basketball is all about.

hehe sorry but what were we debating about again?

The point I was trying to make was that Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett are still more valuable players to any team than Steve Nash is.

ah ok i just wanted to point out you were going about the wrong way of doing it

jae- silly rabbit the mvp is the arguably is most coveted individual award so why wouldn't the mvp discussion be a hot topic halfway through the season. there was a midseason awards thread too btw

[The GOAT]

The point I was trying to make was that Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett are still more valuable players to any team than Steve Nash is.

It's not about who is more valuble to ANY team. It's to THEIR team. And the way the team plays should affect the decision, because If Nash contributes the most to the way his team wins (which I think he does), then that is MVP status.

[GloveGuy]

Where do you get that? The MVP isn't based on hypothetics such as how valuable Duncan would be on another team. As I said, it's about what is actually happening at the moment! On the other hand if you believe the MVP should go to the best player, fine... Duncan and Garnett take the nod. However, the MVP award is supposed to based on who is most valuable to his or her team (And yes, they usually only look at the elite teams in the league). It's been proven year and year and year after year.

You're an idiot.

Shouldn't be the most valuable to his team?
Gee, mvp does stand for most valuable player for a reason.

It's not about who is more valuble to ANY team. It's to THEIR team. And the way the team plays should affect the decision, because If Nash contributes the most to the way his team wins (which I think he does), then that is MVP status.

The way I see it, Nash's value to his team only shows their over-dependence on him. The Suns have the perfect parts to their system, and when one key part is out, it will crumble. Whenever Amare gets injured(if he does), you will notice a considerable drop in their play. Nash is just their to set people up, obviously something that Barbosa can't do, but I bet many other PGs can. And this is just one side of the ball. He's always going to be horrendous on the other.

It's really gotten to the point where they suck so much without him, that I say he's been doing too much. Just because the Spurs system isn't as contingent on Tim Duncan's play, doesn't mean his presence and value is as great as Nash's, does it?

And we're probably never going to know how good they are, because Duncan isn't nearly as injury-prone as Steve Nash. They could quite possibly suck just as much, but I doubt that Popovich would let that happen. He'll let Robert Horry play his game in Duncan's spot. D'Antoni probably thought he could get Barbosa to play Nash's role, which just isn't gonna happen.

[The GOAT]

It's really gotten to the point where they suck so much without him, that I say he's been doing too much. Just because the Spurs system isn't as contingent on Tim Duncan's play, doesn't mean his presence and value is as great as Nash's, does it?

Why is it a bad thing taht he is so important to his team? Isn't that what the MNP is, the most important player to his team in the league?

[NNpF]

I just got one thing to say...

Again, I am not hating on Nash, I would love for him to win MVP. But some of you keep saying how bad the Suns play was with Nash not in the line-up. Who's to say they would do any better if Amare gets injured.

Lets say he did and they went 0-5 without him, and when he comes back they start racking up the wins again, does that mean Stoudemire should be MVP?

Or if the same Happens when Marion is out for example. I'm just saying that I don't think you can base MVP status on what happens when a player gets injured, because it could go the same way if another player on the same team gets injured.

[cyanide]

I just got one thing to say...

Again, I am not hating on Nash, I would love for him to win MVP. But some of you keep saying how bad the Suns play was with Nash not in the line-up. Who's to say they would do any better if Amare gets injured.

Lets say he did and they went 0-5 without him, and when he comes back they start racking up the wins again, does that mean Stoudemire should be MVP?

Or if the same Happens when Marion is out for example. I'm just saying that I don't think you can base MVP status on what happens when a player gets injured, because it could go the same way if another player on the same team gets injured.

They wouldn't be as good without Marion and Amare, for sure, but the Suns have a lot of offensive firepower. Nash is the one that runs the plays, and the other guys are there to score. If they lose a player, there's still other guys that can step up.

[Jowe]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=250202016

Nash's Suns beat KG "OMG MVP!!!!111!" Twolves.

108 -79



Nash kept hudson to 5/15shooting and 11pts

[Alvin]

nash won't be the mvp... remember jason kidd bout 3 years ago? he was hyped to be the mvp, and how he was able to lead the nets to the eastern conference 1st seed in the playoffs... and yet duncan won it...

nash may be good, he may be able to make the players around him better, but doesn't shaq and duncan do so too? also, he scores less and does not defend as well...

i still think duncan has a better shot of winning it. garnett probably won't especially if the wolves play the same way they do now...

[Jowe]

Have you got proof to back up the no defence stance everyone is vomitting out?

I don't think Duncan will win it, due to emergence of Ginobili as a superstar and Parker as well.

Garnett won't win it, unless they go on some crazy ass winning streak.

[Alvin]

got no hard facts, it's just based on what i see when i watch him play anyways, defense doesn't really show up in the stat sheet. that's just my opinion.

[fgrep15]

Have you got proof to back up the no defence stance everyone is vomitting out?

I don't think Duncan will win it, due to emergence of Ginobili as a superstar and Parker as well.

Garnett won't win it, unless they go on some crazy ass winning streak.

He gives up 48% shooting to his opponents, that would be fine if he was playing C or PF, but he plays PG. The Suns opponents shoot 7% better when he's on the floor as opposed to when he's off, and they get 9% more assists when he's on the floor as opposed to off, which is likely due to them getting less dribble penetration.

Ginobili isn't a superstar, just an All-Star, but I don't think Nash won't [not will] win it because of the emergence of Amare as a top 10-15 player in the league. The Suns have 3 top 20-25 players in the league in Nash, Amare, and Marion, with Amare and Nash being in the top 10-15.

Parker is good, but at best a in the 30's - 40's in terms of ranking among players in the league.

They wouldn't be as good without Marion and Amare, for sure, but the Suns have a lot of offensive firepower. Nash is the one that runs the plays, and the other guys are there to score. If they lose a player, there's still other guys that can step up.

The only losses that would hurt the Suns are Marion, Amare, and Nash. Joe Johnson and Q-Rich can be replaced by Jackson, and for the short term they can survive without them for the most part.

If Marion goes down, they become an even worse defensive rebounding team that they already are. Their defense isn't near bad at all like some people think, it's actually above average to good as a team, but their defensive rebounding is bad.
Also with Marion out, it takes away the bulk of their steals which lead to fastbreak points, and it also hurts their interior defense because of his shot blocking.

With Amare out it might be even worse, Jake Voskuhl didn't average 24 points a game after Marbury left, and Steven Hunter is offensively challenged. If Amare goes down, they have no inside scoring at all, they don't have his shot blocking inside, their defensive rebounding suffers again as Marion isn't going to be averaging 15 rebounds a game, and they become a strictly jumpshooting team. Their team FG% won't be #2 in the league anymore, they'll be shooting 44% or so. It will also mean Q-Rich will get more shots, which as we all know is never a good thing.

[J@3]

Jowe gets so fired up about this. I had an argument with him on MSN about the whole Nash thing, I copped about 15 rolling eye smileys in the space of 5 minutes before he started swearing at me