the Great Debate: Kobe or T-Mac?

[Rens]

Laker wouldn't easily win a game without Kobe, Magic may not lose a game without Tracy.

Hehe yeah right... Shaq wouldn't win games for the Lakers.. while I'm sure Pat Burke would for the Magic

[ningtong88]

Hehe yeah right... Shaq wouldn't win games for the Lakers.. while I'm sure Pat Burke would for the Magic

Did you watch Magic vs. Knicks, they played without T-mac, and they won, that proved without T-mac, Magic still can win.
I said Lakers wouldn't easily win a game without Kobe, that happened last season, when Kobe got suspended, but not yet this season, and you know why.
From last night's game Kobe proved he is better than T-mac, he scored 21 of his 27 points during 4th quarter, and with 9rebounds and 8assists. Don't say that Shaq is the only one carry the team. Magic got Mike Miller, Grant Hill, they both are all stars, why don't you say Mike Miller and Grant Hill also carrry the team?

By the way, from last night's great comeback game, Lakers are really back.

[MC Hao]

From last night's game Kobe proved he is better than T-mac, he scored 21 of his 27 points during 4th quarter, and with 9rebounds and 8assists.

Yeah, one game proves everything, doesn't it?

Magic got Mike Miller, Grant Hill, they both are all stars, why don't you say Mike Miller and Grant Hill also carrry the team?

Mike Miller?? All star?

Did you watch Magic vs. Knicks, they played without T-mac, and they won, that proved without T-mac, Magic still can win.

That's because they have depth now. Back in 00-01, it was all T-Mac, it was him who led the Magic to the playoffs.

[Eugene]

Yeah, one game proves everything, doesn't it?

No, it doesn't. However, that one game proves that Kobe Bryant has the capabilty and the willingness to initiate a complete change in the game, something McGrady has yet to do...

I'm pretty certain T-Mac also has that ability, but when a player is at such an elite level, the question is no longer "can he do it" or "will he do it," it's "has he done it."

Eugene

[ningtong88]

Back in 00-01, it was all T-Mac, it was him who led the Magic to the playoffs.

That was two years ago. Now is now, the new season means start at zero. If you talk about the past, you know how T-mac got into the Toronto, he cheated!!

In last night's game, Kobe was kinda injuried on the third quarter, he wasn't suppose to keep playing, but he did, what's that?????

[GloveGuy]

Kobe might have the capability to do it but it doesn't mean that he will always do it. I think it'll be a once in a career thing for him. It definitely won't happen again. We can't say that if T-Mac's team is down by a lot after 3 and he failes to make such a comeback that he isn't good as Kobe because Kobe isn't always gonna do that. First I'd like to see the Magic down by that much after 3 because the Lakers were playin like shit until the 4th. One game proves very little.

[MC Hao]

One game proves very little.

I agree, gloveguy.

[Eugene]

Kobe might have the capability to do it

Kobe does have the capability, as he has shown, which is my point.

but it doesn't mean he will always do it.

I agree wholeheartedly... however, he can do it, and has done it, while T-Mac has not -- which again, is my point.

It definitely won't happen again.

Just like I can't prove that it will happen again, you can't prove that it definitely won't happen again.

Ideally, such a situation will not occur again if only for the fact that Shaq continues to put up his numbers and the rest of the Lakers team has woken up, but I think Phil Jackson can sleep easier at night knowing that the Lakers have a chance to win every night because of what Kobe did in that game. Conversely, I doubt the Lakers would hang their hats on that because as you stated, such a performance is very rare.

Ultimately, what I'm saying is, all I'm saying is, this one performance has defined (or redefined) him as a player. We now know that he can do things that only very special players can, regardless of how often he can do it.

And until T-Mac shows the same ability, it's difficult for me to pick him over Kobe Bryant. The game was just too remarkable to dismiss, and it should be taken into consideration when comparing the two players, especially when they are so close on so many levels.

[MC Hao]

ok, let's look at the voting:

Kobe: 42%
T-Mac: 57%

It's clear, T-Mac's better, at least the majority of people in this thread think so.

[TheBob]

It's not clear that Tmac is better than Kobe based on 42 votes. I'm sure many people are voting very subjectively and are just voting for their favourite player.

[GloveGuy]

And until T-Mac shows the same ability, it's difficult for me to pick him over Kobe Bryant.

Once T-Mac is put in the position to do that, he COULD do it. Not day in and day out. But he does have the ability to take over a game. Sadly we haven't seen that this year because the Magic haven't been blown out. You can't say that just because T-Mac hasn't done it that he can't because his moment hasn't come yet. Kobe's moment came and it passed. If the Lakers get blown out after the 3rd again, it is highly unlikely that they will make such a comeback.

[Eugene]

You can't say that just because T-Mac hasn't done it that he can't because his moment hasn't come yet.

And I'm really not saying that. But at this level, and I think I've mentioned this, a player has to be judged by what he has done, not what he can or will do.

Otherwise, your points are valid. It is highly unlikely such a comeback will happen again, but if history means anything, I'd still put my money on Kobe. At the very least, I'd not give up on him or the Lakers.

To say that Kobe's moment has come and passed sounds like you're saying he's washed up, or not the focus of the league anymore. That's not what you meant, though, is it?

[Boyk]

career
bryant: DRPG 3.5 SPG 1.33 BPG 0.62
mcgrady: DRPG 4.3 SPG 1.24 BPG 1.35

let me know when my knowledge of the game is up to speed there bandwagon-boy. Kobe's a Shooting Gaurd, T-Mac is a Shooting God. Master of defense AND offense. Recognize!

Stats mean Jack!!
When i say defense i mean kobe can go out there and get told to shut down someone, and he will, T-Mac cant do that, and dont say he can or that would really make you look stupid

and you say t-mac master of offense............HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
He was shutdown completley today vs the nets!!
4-20 16pnts 3rebs 3asts lol
he struggles agaisnt good defenders(jefferson and kidd today, garnett a while back and theres more)
kobe can dominate anyone if he really felt like it, but now shaq is back, kobe tries to get more involved, so dont tell me t-mac is the shooting god and the master of defense and offense when he really isnt

[:digerati:]

When i say defense i mean kobe can go out there and get told to shut down someone, and he will, T-Mac cant do that, and dont say he can or that would really make you look stupid

Prove It.

He was shutdown completley today vs the nets!!
4-20 16pnts 3rebs 3asts lol

16pts is hardly "shutdown completely", look how many players can't get that normally.

he struggles agaisnt good defenders(jefferson and kidd today, garnett a while back and theres more)

Garnett is more than a good defender, he's a tremendous defender (far better than Kobe).

kobe can dominate anyone if he really felt like it

There's quite a few players he couldn't dominate, namely Garnett.

Did you watch Magic vs. Knicks, they played without T-mac, and they won, that proved without T-mac, Magic still can win.

Come on, it's the Knicks. The Knicks!

[Jowe]

Sadly we haven't seen that this year because the Magic haven't been blown out

Wat do you call the 134-92 magic loss to the golden state warriors

[Clinton]

Come on, 42 points isn't a blowout

[Boyk]

to the guy who told me to prove that kobe can shutdown anyone

hmmmmmmm look what he did to michael finley in there 28pnt comeback win
the last three years in the playoffs\finals he has shutdown most of the offensive threats for each team they have faced

damn man theres so much proof that ill be here forever

and i think t-mac was shutdown, 4-20 form the field is the stat that shouts at me, not the 16pnts, the points came from free throws and there aint really much you can do about stopping free throws

just face it kobe haters and t-mac lovers

kobe is better, wake up to reality

[air gordon]

"the points came from free throws and there aint really much you can do about stopping free throws"

if you do not want someone to shoot free throws. (t-mac in this case), avoid fouling him when he is in the act of shooting.

[Clinton]

if you do not want someone to shoot free throws. (t-mac in this case), avoid fouling him when he is in the act of shooting.

There are times when a player is just going to get free throws. TMac is so hard to defend one on one that sometimes he is going to get around you and you have to give up a foul. He attacks the rim so much that the big men have to do something, they can't just leave a lane to the rim , they have to contest the dunks, make him not try it again in the game.When the opposition is over the foul limit he is going to get automatic shots on any foul. TMac takes the technical free throws.

[bishibashiboy]

16pts is hardly "shutdown completely", look how many players can't get that normally.

that's true...but still..T-mac is averaging double that this season..so i would call that a successful shutdown.

i think T-mac CAN shut ppl down more so than Kobe..and he has the potential to be an awesome defensive player because of his height and his reach..but he's just too lazy and lacks the motivation!
so definitely Kobe plays all out D better than T-mac right now.

[air gordon]

clinton, i understand your points. but IMO, defenses can still avoid putting t-mac on the FT line.

it is the opposing team's fault in the first place if t-mac is shooting the free throw for a technical foul. avoid the T's and you aviod him on the line for freebees.

yes, t-mac is vastly talented in getting to the rim. opposing defenders need to push him to where the help side is available. or even consider a double team. orlando is full of streaky shooters, i'd rather have some other guy on the magic score most of the points then t-mac.

[TheBob]

I agree with limpdilznik here. When you're defending a player such as Tmac, Kobe, Pierce or Carter your number one priority should be to keep them away from the rim. The reason being these players are all very good finishers and can normally get their pretty easily (although Carter choses not to quite often ). It is far more likely for them to have an off day shooting jumpers than it is them having an off day finishing around the basket. If you double team a player or trap them it should be pretty easy to keep them from getting to the foul line.

[bishibashiboy]

words from the man himself..check out the end:

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/rosen/021210.html

i always thought he never worked hard enough..

[T_McGrady]

McGrady, definitely. Kobe's having a better season, but McGrady, who's already like extremely good, has potential to improve even more.

Also, I mean just look. T-Mac can lead a team. Kobe can't. I don't wanna sound like a Kobe hater (he's my 2nd fav player after T-Mac) but you did remember last season when Shaq was on the injured list? Without Shaq, Kobe's other teammates are no better, no worse than T-Mac's. Guess what? He had a horrible record, something like 2 wins outta 11. If the Magic had that for the season, they would have having Yao on their roster right now.

[mkool8]

but McGrady, who's already like extremely good, has potential to improve even more.

So, you're saying that Kobe no longer has the potential to be really good? I believe that both of them still have the potential to improve even more.

Also, I mean just look. T-Mac can lead a team. Kobe can't.

It's true that T'Mac has proven that he can lead a team with the Magic because it was presented to him. When he came to the Magic, Grant Hill was hailed as the savior of the franchise. But, as you know Grant was injured for most of two seasons so T'Mac was given the chance to lead a team and is now proving it.

Kobe on the other hand has never had the chance to lead a team for a majority of the season. He was being a good leader when Shaq was injured, but the rest of Lakers were probably just waiting for Shaq to come back, and thus somewhat ignoring what Kobe has been doing (or maybe the rest of Lakers are just bad followers that a good leader doesn't mean a thing). You really shouldn't say that Kobe can't lead a team. When Shaq retires and Kobe's the one leader of the team, then, only then can you tell me that whether Kobe can lead or not.

And believe me the rest of the Magic is a much better team than the rest of the Lakers.