NBA FINALS "LAKERS vs. PISTONS"

[magius]

andrew, you are jinxing the pistons! please refrain from subtle references inclined towards a certain team unless its the team i dont like. thank you.

[Fresh8]

The team nedds to learn about- There is no I in Team!

[kevC]

dammit andrew! you and your jinxing ways

[Andrew]

I already jinxed the Lakers by picking them at the start of the year, and I've been powerless since the Heat/Hornets series. The Pistons are safe to my unfortunate power.

[magius]

you just jinxed the pistons safety against your jinx. im only warning you once, andrew.......

[Andrew]

OK, OK, I won't say anymore.

Steven Dilbeck is one person who seems to believe that the Lakers won't be able to overcome the history of the 3-1 deficit: Lakes out of gas?

[air gordon]

Sorry for the misinterpretation but I really think that the Lakers are a better team when they run, which is possible, in my opinion.

no worries about the misinterpretation... i've given the strategies that detroit has been using to limit lakers from running, would you care to explain how you think the lakers can fastbreak more?

I agree that the triangle offense is much more suited for a Derek Fisher-like player, though it doesn't mean that Fisher is better than Payton.

the triangle also plays to the talents of george, walton, rush, medvedenko, fox... pretty much what's left of the lakers rotation. i didn't say fisher is better then payton but going off the coaching decisions, it appears that fisher's role has expanded and he'd probably be more effective if he wasn't injured

it's obvious that the Lakers aren't playing to their strengths. If they were, than an all-star calibur player in Payton would be allowed to penetrate more often and create shots for other players. I would think that it would lessen the load for both Kobe and Shaq.

i think it's more of the piston defense then the lakers not taking advantage of their strengths. i for one would continue to run the offense through shaq, not the 'all-star calibur' payton . despite big ben's D, shaq has a much more sizeable advantage then payton has over billups (if any). i don't want it sound like i'm trying to bash Payton but can you say with a straight face that he is still an all start caliber player, let alone has the advantage over Billups in that matchup?

I'd really have to disagree about Billups getting burned by Payton. If Shaq would step up on the pick-and-roll, Billups wouldn't be nearly as efficient. And it's not all GP's fault. The Lakers were killed by the pick-and-roll last year by Hudson and Parker, and now they're getting their asses handed to them by Billups.

it's not entirely GP's fault, but i'll stand by my opinion that chauncey has owned him in their matchup. let's just agree to disagree.

As you can see, I really don't understand Phil Jackson's methods. I have no reason why he's doing what he's doing. I think he's just scared for a change in style. He seems too stubborn to realize that the triangle can fail

i don't either but i'm not going to question his moves with the resume he has.

[Riot]

The team nedds to learn about- There is no I in Team!

there is a me

[Fresh8]

Thanks man...

[Matt]

im officially telling everyone that i will make a post after the Finals....not just about the finals.....so there, i take up one of the allowed posts

Go Pistons!!!

[Riot]

Thanks man...

just pointing that out!

[RedTorro]

I said it once and I'll say it again.... send Kobe to court! That will snap him out of his shooting slump. All he needs is a reminder that he can either be Shaq's bitch and keep passing him the ball or he can be somebody's prison bitch and be passing the soap.

[GloveGuy]

no worries about the misinterpretation... i've given the strategies that detroit has been using to limit lakers from running, would you care to explain how you think the lakers can fastbreak more?

Obviously if they limit the offensive rebounds, which they can do, they will be able to run the break more often. And it is possible to limit the rebounds. Some of the ones that Prince and Hamilton are getting are just ridiculous. There was no effort to box out by either George or Bryant. The ball just fell right into their hands.

What they'd also have to do is stop having Kobe bring the ball up. I don't see the point of it if you're expecting this guy to score. The rebounder, be it Shaq or Malone, has to be looking to break. Right when they get the rebound they've got to give it quickly to Payton who can fly down the court with Bryant and George on their side. Obviously all of this depends on the permission of Phil Jackson.

i think it's more of the piston defense then the lakers not taking advantage of their strengths. i for one would continue to run the offense through shaq, not the 'all-star calibur' payton . despite big ben's D, shaq has a much more sizeable advantage then payton has over billups (if any). i don't want it sound like i'm trying to bash Payton but can you say with a straight face that he is still an all start caliber player, let alone has the advantage over Billups in that matchup?

I'm certainly not saying to run the offense through Payton but Phil's gotta loosen that leash he has on him. I mean, during the regular season, the Lakers actually ran plays for Malone and Payton. The triangle wasn't used nearly as much. Don't you remember in the beginning of the year when the Lakers offense was looking unstoppable? Then Phil just said enough with it. Payton's numbers and role started to fall and the Lakers weren't nearly as dominating, if dominating at all.

Then as the playoffs came closer, Phil just decided to run plays Kobe and Shaq. Now we're in the Finals and Payton wants to get these guys running. Make Chauncey play a little defense.

Anyone who followed the Lakers this year knows that they play ten times better when they abandon the triangle. The Pistons have an answer for the triangle, and I feel that Phil is just playing into the hands of Detroit right now.

The stats between Billups and Payton are so lobsided because Larry Brown gives Billups that free range. Billups has confidence in himself to do what he's capable of. Payton's confidence has shot out the window and that's affecting him on both sides of the floor. It's taking him out of the games.

[Jackal]

if you care to dig it up i picked detroit over jersey and over indiana against the crowd, and detroit over la in 7 before the series started so there!!!! arrrrrrrrrr.

Ehehe, it wasnt directed towards you, I saw the Detroit over LA pick in this thread from the beginning. Shane picked them too.

I know bandwagonner isnt a word, but you're the one bragging about using big words.

PJ- come back to me with this man talk when mommy and daddy are done changing your diaper, er i mean done putting you to bed, or at least when you're allowed to stay up past your bedtime on a weekday

[off topic]*sigh* No, I won't come back to you because you would resort to petty comments such as these. I didnt insult/degrade you in any way. For all you know I could've been talking about Magius. (I wasnt though, but still...no need for insults like this.) Calm down, no need to get offended that you lost a bet and couldnt accept the fact you lost. Please, spare me the crappy insults.
You say you won't comment on my posts, yet after I ask you not to PM me, you bring it into this thread. Can we please just leave it alone. You lost, you couldnt stay away, stop trying to make it look like I did something wrong. [/off topic]

[magius]

its sad seeing shaq dimnish just like it was sad seeing the dreams game fade. Do you guys think that if he (shaq) works out in the offseason and gets his ass in gear he can return to old form? Or has years of punishment delt and punishment taken finally taken its toll? I remember the days he averaged 30 points EVERY playoff game. he's still dominant, just not as dominant. i can never imagine shaq coming off the bench ever, i think he will retire before that happens and become a bloody sherrif

I know bandwagonner isnt a word, but you're the one bragging about using big words.

somebody forgot the quotation mark in isnt. tsk tsk tsk. barbarian.

[Jackal]

Ehehe, shutup Magius.

its sad seeing shaq dimnish

*sigh* It's very sad. You just keep watching to see the flashes of old.

Do you guys think that if he (shaq) works out in the offseason and gets his ass in gear he can return to old form?

No, I don't think he could return as the Shaq of old. I doubt he'll average 30 something points per game consistently again. Even if he does manage to work his ass off and really get into shape (which I doubt, he's too lazy when it comes to doing this), other teams are given much more latitude whilst playing against Shaq. Before, if a foul was called on Tim Duncan, the same foul would be called on Shaq. Now a days, given Shaq's history of dominance against every team + player, the refree's have changed their mindset. Oh, a foul on Duncan isnt equivalent to a foul on Shaq, he's bigger, he can take it.

So yeah, in short, I doubt he'll be able to average 30 something on a consistant basis again. As much as that pains me to say it.

[air gordon]

Obviously if they limit the offensive rebounds, which they can do, they will be able to run the break more often. And it is possible to limit the rebounds. Some of the ones that Prince and Hamilton are getting are just ridiculous. There was no effort to box out by either George or Bryant. The ball just fell right into their hands.

What they'd also have to do is stop having Kobe bring the ball up. I don't see the point of it if you're expecting this guy to score. The rebounder, be it Shaq or Malone, has to be looking to break. Right when they get the rebound they've got to give it quickly to Payton who can fly down the court with Bryant and George on their side. Obviously all of this depends on the permission of Phil Jackson.

if bryant and george are making big efforts to box out, how are they to get out on the transition?

LAL controlling the boards? this is easier said then done. i figured since the pistons won game 1, LAL would try to hit the boards harder but it just hasn't happened. i don't know if it's lack of heart, pistons getting back on defense, or the pistons wearing them down. maybe all 3. until i see it happening, i'm not convinced that LAL can 'turn the faucet on' and start controlling the boards and running like the dallas mavs

I'm certainly not saying to run the offense through Payton but Phil's gotta loosen that leash he has on him. I mean, during the regular season, the Lakers actually ran plays for Malone and Payton. The triangle wasn't used nearly as much. Don't you remember in the beginning of the year when the Lakers offense was looking unstoppable? Then Phil just said enough with it. Payton's numbers and role started to fall and the Lakers weren't nearly as dominating, if dominating at all.

Then as the playoffs came closer, Phil just decided to run plays Kobe and Shaq. Now we're in the Finals and Payton wants to get these guys running. Make Chauncey play a little defense.

Anyone who followed the Lakers this year knows that they play ten times better when they abandon the triangle. The Pistons have an answer for the triangle, and I feel that Phil is just playing into the hands of Detroit right now.

The stats between Billups and Payton are so lobsided because Larry Brown gives Billups that free range. Billups has confidence in himself to do what he's capable of. Payton's confidence has shot out the window and that's affecting him on both sides of the floor. It's taking him out of the games.

imo i thought the lakers were pretty darn hard to beat in the regular season because their big 4 were healthy and devean george was hitting his shots.

now it's the finals- defenses are tougher, the game tempo is slowed down, and the opposition is able to make adjustments. i can see why phil is going to his 2 stars. and it's a great idea to have bryant initiate the offense in half court sets- he is the team's best penetrator and detroit has been double teaming him...

free range or no free range, Billups numbers across the board are up.

anyway, i'm not sure if i want to continue the discussion on billups vs payton. i'm not trying to insult, however it seems your undying support and biasedness towards payton is clouding your judgement. especially when you don't answer about my questions about billups being an all star or being the better player in the PG matchup

[VMS]

I have had it up to here with the "Let's see what the Lakers did wrong..."

SHUT UP!

Maybe, just maybe, the PISTONS did something right! Get over it. Just because the Lakers lose, it's not there fault. The Pistons have played textbook basketball, executing plays flawlessly, and ever since game 2, been unbeatable clutch players.

If you don't like what I said, then you won't wan't me making $50. How can you stop this? Get your team to play well.

[Riot]

Nicely Said.


I can't believe I'm saying this but it seems like the Lakers aren't motivated. Like they don't care. It's the NBA Finals and they aren't motivated...it's pretty sad

GO PISTONS! GO CHAUNCEY!

[VMS]

All that pent up rage against the Lakers...

That felt goooooooood.

(yes, I am aware that living around basketball and being a shut-in during games in unhealthy, but I love it I can't believe that I could hate anything so much)

don't take what I say personally, if you do, then you must be a Laker fan.
(just kidding )

[GloveGuy]

anyway, i'm not sure if i want to continue the discussion on billups vs payton. i'm not trying to insult, however it seems your undying support and biasedness towards payton is clouding your judgement. especially when you don't answer about my questions about billups being an all star or being the better player in the PG matchup

Alright, I guess I exaggerated a bit when I said that Payton's an all-star calibur player right now, but we saw what he's capable of last year, and how much of a drop off could he really have over one year. His stats just don't speak for his capabilities. But I do think that this whole Billups dominating Payton thing is blown over. Much of it has to do with the Lakers inability to guard the pick-and-roll.

and it's a great idea to have bryant initiate the offense in half court sets- he is the team's best penetrator and detroit has been double teaming him...

Once again, I disagree. I thought it was wrong of Phil to take that role away from Payton. That used to be the only thing he was doing, and now Phil wants to take that away from him? Way to boost the confidence in your point guard.

I also disagree with your statement in that Kobe is a better penetrator. GP made a living throughout his career in going to the hole and making the defense collapse on him, easily finding the open man. If Phil wants Payton to do anything, that's what Payton should be doing, making Shaq and Kobe's job easier.

[Riot]

I totally agree with you. The Billups matchup is a little bit blown over.

[Alcoholic]

You can already see the amount of ticky tacs they are calling on the lakers... Shaq barely bumped prince, he just spun around and flopped.

[Riot]

You have to call that foul. One, Shaq didnt even get ball. Two, If prince goes hard to the floor like that after running into Shaq I think they should call something, he might be damaged goods lol.


I think that was a good call by the refs.

[Alcoholic]

Kobe won't fall down like that, but that doesn't mean he doesn't get as banged up as Prince.