The point remains the same: Shaq will always need some other player who can carry the team in the last minutes and it has to be a very good player, not a role player. This was the point of my posting, with Shaq + role players you don't win.
I'm not saying that with Kobe+role players you will win for sure, I don't know, but at least I know that in my last 2 minutes I can give him the ball.
KOBE TALK (Your one-stop shop for everything Kobe!)
by magius on Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:18 pm
their is no blur between who was more important to the lakers -- shaq was more important. Shaq needs kobe like bread needs butter, yes, the butter is important, but you can also have miracle whip, jam, turkey or ham. Shaq won the lakers first championship in 2000 with kobe averaging 15.6 points per game, and that is a telling statistic. Kobe has never won a championship without a big chunk of superhuman in the middle averaging less than 28 points per game and 12 boards per game.
Shaq may have never done so either, but i would be willing to believe that he eventually would've with or without kobe. in his second year in orlando he took a crap team to the playoffs, in his third year to the finals, in his fourth to the conference finals. If shaq needs kobe so equally then why didnt kobe win the playoff mvp not once? I would understand this if the lakers had won the championship only once, but they have won it thrice! In detroit, thomas and dumars were somewhat equally important to the piston championships and they split the playoff mvps the 2 years they won the championship. The showtime lakers had 2 equally important players in magic and kareem and they both had their share of playoff mvps. Mj was undoubtebly the most important bull and he won the playoff mvp every time, not to say that he didnt need the team or pip or rod, he did, but they needed him much more to have been able to win. Duncan was undoubtebly the playoff mvp the 2 times the spurs won, so was hakeem. Could the people who vote for playoff mvps who have voted the right person almost every time have gotten it wrong 3 times in a row?! Or, maybe just maybe, could you have gotten it wrong? think about it.
If kobe is as great as you seem to believe why has he never been regualr season mvp? He plays with shaq is a valid point, since how can someone be the league mvp when he's not even the mvp of his own team? Mj played with arguably the greatest rebounder in nba history in rodman, and if not the greatest, among the greatest wing defenders of all time in pip, and yet somehow he was still voted mvp. If kobe is anywhere near mj then he wouldve won at least one mvp even playing with shaq, one of the greatest centres in nba history.
like i said, kobe is great, not as great as you portray him. stop the overrating. kobe can hit amazing shots, it doesnt make him amazing.... that look you saw on west's face when kobe made a beautiful play? I could've sworn i saw it when kobe forced his third straight shot and clunked. Just because kobe's young it doesnt mean he's going to change, did iverson change?
I somewhat understand the lakers picking youth in kobe over shaq, but in the long run it seldom works when you build for the future. Stick with the best of what you've got and work hard and success inevitably comes, throwing away something already great for the chance of something greater rarely works, in fact it almost always seems in hindsight to be the stupidest thing you could've ever done.
You win championships with big men, the lakers just threw theirs away. Apparently they have had enough of succesful teams and prefer a succesful indiviual player. So be it.
i would not be surpised if the reason jax left is because management informed him of their future decisions. I'm not saying it is the truth, im just saying i wouldnt be surprised.
Shaq may have never done so either, but i would be willing to believe that he eventually would've with or without kobe. in his second year in orlando he took a crap team to the playoffs, in his third year to the finals, in his fourth to the conference finals. If shaq needs kobe so equally then why didnt kobe win the playoff mvp not once? I would understand this if the lakers had won the championship only once, but they have won it thrice! In detroit, thomas and dumars were somewhat equally important to the piston championships and they split the playoff mvps the 2 years they won the championship. The showtime lakers had 2 equally important players in magic and kareem and they both had their share of playoff mvps. Mj was undoubtebly the most important bull and he won the playoff mvp every time, not to say that he didnt need the team or pip or rod, he did, but they needed him much more to have been able to win. Duncan was undoubtebly the playoff mvp the 2 times the spurs won, so was hakeem. Could the people who vote for playoff mvps who have voted the right person almost every time have gotten it wrong 3 times in a row?! Or, maybe just maybe, could you have gotten it wrong? think about it.
If kobe is as great as you seem to believe why has he never been regualr season mvp? He plays with shaq is a valid point, since how can someone be the league mvp when he's not even the mvp of his own team? Mj played with arguably the greatest rebounder in nba history in rodman, and if not the greatest, among the greatest wing defenders of all time in pip, and yet somehow he was still voted mvp. If kobe is anywhere near mj then he wouldve won at least one mvp even playing with shaq, one of the greatest centres in nba history.
like i said, kobe is great, not as great as you portray him. stop the overrating. kobe can hit amazing shots, it doesnt make him amazing.... that look you saw on west's face when kobe made a beautiful play? I could've sworn i saw it when kobe forced his third straight shot and clunked. Just because kobe's young it doesnt mean he's going to change, did iverson change?
I somewhat understand the lakers picking youth in kobe over shaq, but in the long run it seldom works when you build for the future. Stick with the best of what you've got and work hard and success inevitably comes, throwing away something already great for the chance of something greater rarely works, in fact it almost always seems in hindsight to be the stupidest thing you could've ever done.
You win championships with big men, the lakers just threw theirs away. Apparently they have had enough of succesful teams and prefer a succesful indiviual player. So be it.
i would not be surpised if the reason jax left is because management informed him of their future decisions. I'm not saying it is the truth, im just saying i wouldnt be surprised.
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magius - Posts: 1406
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by Ruff Ryder on Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:43 am
Wow!!! Look at this now!!!
Shaq wants out of LA, PJ is gone, and now Kobe is right where he wants to be. He gets to be the main man if he stays and will be in the rebuilding process.
Shaq wants out of LA, PJ is gone, and now Kobe is right where he wants to be. He gets to be the main man if he stays and will be in the rebuilding process.
'Retired'
"You can’t drive a knife into a man’s back nine inches, pull it out six inches, and call it progress."-Malcolm X
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Ruff Ryder - Posts: 5996
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by . on Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:14 am
Psycho Jackal wrote:Yes, that we shall.
A question to all those that side with Kobe, why do you think every team wants to have Shaq on their team?
Because he still is the most dominant player in the league, and many teams think they have the complete team and all they need is a dominant player to win a championship.
They rather win now then they rebuild to win in the future, which is what the Lakers are doing. The curent Lakers are not winning with Shaq, they want Kobe for the future rather then Shaq for 2 years, while other teams dont mind that he is done after a couple of years because they want to win so badly.
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by Steve04 on Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:23 am
http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-plaschke19jun19,1,7862371.column?coll=la-headlines-sports-nba-lakers
Maybe if the anti-Kobe/Kobe bashers laid out their point of view this logically as this writer did then I could see what they're saying more. I'm closer to agreeing with Bill Platshke than you guys. Do I think Kobe can lead a team to the finals and win? Yes. Did the Lakers need to choose Kobe over Shaq, Phil, Jerry West? Heck No..Kobe's young enough that you could have kept Shaq and Phil until they retire and then he would get his team. Sad really..
Maybe if the anti-Kobe/Kobe bashers laid out their point of view this logically as this writer did then I could see what they're saying more. I'm closer to agreeing with Bill Platshke than you guys. Do I think Kobe can lead a team to the finals and win? Yes. Did the Lakers need to choose Kobe over Shaq, Phil, Jerry West? Heck No..Kobe's young enough that you could have kept Shaq and Phil until they retire and then he would get his team. Sad really..
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by Jackal on Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:19 am
gamewiz wrote:Maybe if the anti-Kobe/Kobe bashers laid out their point of view this logically as this writer did then I could see what they're saying more.
All of them chanting, "Ko-be, Ko-be, Ko-be."
Ya'll do enough Kobe Chanting, I won't go into that.
Well, what do you know, I think a little like the writer.
Replace O'Neal? No chance.
Yeah, the Lakers can just find another 7-foot, 340-pounder whose giant back has shouldered three championships.
Shaq is the vocal point of those three championships.
Hey, there are all kinds of guys out there who have been so dominant, the league changed the rules in hopes of slowing them
O'Neal's most enduring quality isn't his scoring or his rebounding or even his intimidation, even though all are among the league's best.
It's his singularity.
In the NBA, there is nobody like him, and may never be anybody like him, and even at age 32 with shifting moods and questionable work habits, he is an irreplaceable freak of nature.
The league has a handful of Kobes, maybe not in the final two minutes, but certainly in the course of a season, and none of them are capable of winning a championship by themselves.
Kobe can be replaced, Shaq however, can't.
I don't understand how a team can be a players, if that player is replaceable. Look at how many guards are in the league, there are enough guards out there that can do Kobe's job.
"Getting it done without Shaq seems to be extremely difficult. I think Orlando found that out the hard way," Fisher said, referring to O'Neal's defection in 1996. "And hopefully the Lakers won't have to find that out, in terms of not having a team with Shaq on it."
Everyone seems to realise how hard it will be without Shaq except the people that are making the decisions. (Buss)
Buss must think everything is just swell today, his team soon to be in the hands of his favorite son, the coach and players to be of Bryant's liking, everybody young and fun and willing to throw everything to No. 8.
Now Kobe can have all the shots he wants...etc etc.
We haven't said these things? Just because it's written by some LA times writer, you will believe it.
All those things, I've said it, not in the same words, but I've said it.
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Jackal - Posts: 14877
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by magius on Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:13 am
gamewiz wrote:http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-plaschke19jun19,1,7862371.column?coll=la-headlines-sports-nba-lakers
Maybe if the anti-Kobe/Kobe bashers laid out their point of view this logically as this writer did then I could see what they're saying more. I'm closer to agreeing with Bill Platshke than you guys. Do I think Kobe can lead a team to the finals and win? Yes. Did the Lakers need to choose Kobe over Shaq, Phil, Jerry West? Heck No..Kobe's young enough that you could have kept Shaq and Phil until they retire and then he would get his team. Sad really..
if you dont understand what we've written then maybe you should get glasses. Its not our job to make you understand, its a privilege offered free of charge. Maybe if kobe lovers had actually read what people have written they'd realize we are not all just chanting "i hate kobe! i hate kobe!", we are saying kobe is overrated because [read everything we've written]. Its not my fault your english comprehension is lacking.
seriously, why are you trying to insult our intelligence? by making such petty comments you're insulting your own intelligence, if you dont like what someones saying don't attack the person, attack the argument. Attacking the person is the clearest sign that you are in fact losing an argument. And no, i'm not attacking you, i'm simply responding to an insult in kind.
And you know, showing an article and saying "oh look he says the same things as me and therefore i'm right" really isn't as conclusive as you seem to think, because i can give you a hundred other articles that say different.
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magius - Posts: 1406
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by Steve04 on Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:22 am
Don't put words in my mouth PJ, I never said I totally agreed with him. I happen to think Kobe can be the focal point of a team and they can succeed. I just don't agree with how the Lakers are going about things.
And magius, you're absolutely correct. Trying to reason with you all is like trying to get a blind man to see. So guess what, I post a post saying I'm closer to agreeing with the LA Times writer! And you all get upset. Just like I knew you would. Riiight. As for attacking the argument, I've tried that and none of us are going to budge so what good does it do? We just keep going in circles. None of us really have any real basis to back up our claims because Shaq and Kobe have never played seperately yet, so its really just a bunch of biased people spouting off their opinion as the bible truth and ridiculing those who say otherwise. Including Mr. Plastchke(Can't seem to spell his name) from the LA Times. As for my english comprehension, I wonder about yours because that article is the opposite viewpoint of mine.
"And you know, showing an article and saying "oh look he says the same things as me and therefore i'm right" really isn't as conclusive as you seem to think, because i can give you a hundred other articles that say different."
He thinks Kobe is overrated, I don't. I think Kobe is the best SG in the league. You don't. I think Shaq is the most dominant center in the league but he's declining. You think he's the most dominant center in the league. You think it was Kobe's fault the Lakers lost the finals, yet you said in another thread if he had made 45 pts they still would've lost. I think the blame is on Kobe, and the supporting cast because they couldn't make a jump shot and thus he tried to take matters into his own hands. You don't. Fine. We can disagree. I don't think Kobe's perfect. You seem to think I do. I don't think Shaq is perfect, matter of fact he takes plays off. But that's right, it's Kobes fault..if he wouldn't hog the ball Shaq wouldn't be compelled to take plays off and not get in shape for the season and not regularly crash the boards . You disagree. That's fine. One of us will eat crow next season. Or Shaq and Kobe will be back and we'll all look like fools.
And magius, you're absolutely correct. Trying to reason with you all is like trying to get a blind man to see. So guess what, I post a post saying I'm closer to agreeing with the LA Times writer! And you all get upset. Just like I knew you would. Riiight. As for attacking the argument, I've tried that and none of us are going to budge so what good does it do? We just keep going in circles. None of us really have any real basis to back up our claims because Shaq and Kobe have never played seperately yet, so its really just a bunch of biased people spouting off their opinion as the bible truth and ridiculing those who say otherwise. Including Mr. Plastchke(Can't seem to spell his name) from the LA Times. As for my english comprehension, I wonder about yours because that article is the opposite viewpoint of mine.
"And you know, showing an article and saying "oh look he says the same things as me and therefore i'm right" really isn't as conclusive as you seem to think, because i can give you a hundred other articles that say different."
He thinks Kobe is overrated, I don't. I think Kobe is the best SG in the league. You don't. I think Shaq is the most dominant center in the league but he's declining. You think he's the most dominant center in the league. You think it was Kobe's fault the Lakers lost the finals, yet you said in another thread if he had made 45 pts they still would've lost. I think the blame is on Kobe, and the supporting cast because they couldn't make a jump shot and thus he tried to take matters into his own hands. You don't. Fine. We can disagree. I don't think Kobe's perfect. You seem to think I do. I don't think Shaq is perfect, matter of fact he takes plays off. But that's right, it's Kobes fault..if he wouldn't hog the ball Shaq wouldn't be compelled to take plays off and not get in shape for the season and not regularly crash the boards . You disagree. That's fine. One of us will eat crow next season. Or Shaq and Kobe will be back and we'll all look like fools.
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by magius on Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:50 am
your second paragraph, first sentence is right because ive been saying that all along, but you know what? its just plain fun. So what do i care? As for the rest, read on:
I didnt get mad, if you can call it that (more like amused), because you agreed with the article. It was because of this: "Maybe if the anti-Kobe/Kobe bashers laid out their point of view this logically as this writer did then I could see what they're saying more." You are basically saying we are stupid and illterate, maybe you didnt mean it (in fact in hindsight you probably didn't), but that is still what that sentence sounds like, and just in case you did mean it i felt the need to respond. If you didnt, sorry.
As for the article, i apologize
I didnt want to register so i just assumed that he was saying what you've been saying. By the time i got to the article link i couldnt care less what it said after you called us illogical brain farts. Hey, maybe my girlfriend's pms is catching and im just sensitive, but that is how i read what you wrote. If you didn't mean it i take it all back. Anyway, it would be nice if you could post the article, because i really dont feel like registering, if not, oh well, its the end of the world
using your last paragraph as a blueprint, here is how i feel about the situation (i know it was intended for jackal, but fuck it):
He thinks kobe is overrated, I do too. I also think that kobe is still nevertheless the best SG in the league. I think Shaq is the most dominant center in the league and i also know he's obviously declining, i take my chances and win at least one championship. I dont think it was kobe's fault the lakers lost the finals, I think it was detroit's fault. I think that if their is blame to be spread among the lakers it is for all of them save shaq, but again i think its detroits fault so thats moot. I dont think you think kobe's perfect, i think you think kobe's better than he really is. I don't think that Shaq is perfect, but taking plays off or not, he is the closest thing to perfect in the paint in this league, he's not a perfect player, but he's a winning player. I also think you win championships with big men and theres nobody bigger. I never said that kobe caused shaqs imperfections, i just feel that kobe's far outweigh shaqs if you want a team that will win it all. Yes, one of us will eat crow, and yes if so and so happens we'll look like fools
happy summer.
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magius - Posts: 1406
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by Jackal on Tue Jun 22, 2004 8:38 am
magius wrote:He thinks kobe is overrated, I do too. I also think that kobe is still nevertheless the best SG in the league. I think Shaq is the most dominant center in the league and i also know he's obviously declining, i take my chances and win at least one championship. I dont think it was kobe's fault the lakers lost the finals, I think it was detroit's fault. I think that if their is blame to be spread among the lakers it is for all of them save shaq, but again i think its detroits fault so thats moot. I dont think you think kobe's perfect, i think you think kobe's better than he really is. I don't think that Shaq is perfect, but taking plays off or not, he is the closest thing to perfect in the paint in this league, he's not a perfect player, but he's a winning player. I also think you win championships with big men and theres nobody bigger. I never said that kobe caused shaqs imperfections, i just feel that kobe's far outweigh shaqs if you want a team that will win it all. Yes, one of us will eat crow, and yes if so and so happens we'll look like fools
There, it's all summed up right there. About the article, you mentioned you would comprehend us better had we said the stuff the writer said, in a way you're making us look stupid. Thus, implying: You guys can't express whatever it is you're trying to say. Sure, I use wrong words from time to time but someone always gets the message.
I too don't think you think Kobe is perfect, I've seen you say that Kobe has had an off game or didnt do something right, but then a guy like Sit comes along and just posts:
Kobe = Number 1.----->? Huh? That sort of stuff pisses me off...he's the best SG, undoubtedly, not even I've said he's not.
Just some fans aren't willing enough to say that Shaq's value is more...at the moment. Maybe not in the long run since he is declining, but still winning now > maybe winning.
Anyways Gamewiz, you're one of the few that actually posts legitimate stuff about Kobe.
As I've said, the season will unravel numerous mysteries for us, let's wait with baited breath.
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Jackal - Posts: 14877
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by Steve04 on Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:34 am
Magius and PJ, I'll admit, I posted that article and commented like that because I was frustrated that we either weren't seeing eye to eye or we weren't agreeing. But you know what? If we all agreed all the time life would be boring. I guess in my fit of frustration I did that to get under you all's skin, and it obviously worked. But I shouldn't have done it, so I apologize. So now we can carry on our good natured banter and debates/arguments.
- Steve04
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by Fresh8 on Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:28 pm
Bryant makes transformation from phenom to star
By Kris Schwartz
Special to ESPN.com
As a rookie, Kobe Bryant won the Slam Dunk contest, just as Michael Jordan had in his first season.
"[Kobe] is going to have to make a stand, because when you are really good, people don't like you. He just has to draw a line in the sand and say I'm not backing down anymore," says Charles Barkley on ESPN Classic's SportsCentury series.
Kobe Bryant, who helped the Lakers win three straight NBA championships and is now accused of sexual assault, will be profiled on Wednesday and Thursday (August 6 and 7) at 7 p.m. ET.
He parachuted into the NBA directly from high school, an 18-year-old man-child with a self-confidence bordering on arrogance. Kobe Bryant had to grow up in public -- and he has done so, although the evolution has been difficult and fitful.
The 6-foot-7 Los Angeles Lakers guard was prematurely compared to Michael Jordan, but he persevered, working relentlessly, and over time his game has ripened. He relishes the moment that many run from and craves to have the ball -- and the game -- in his hands. When he beat San Antonio with pyrotechnic fourth quarters in back-to-back playoff games in 2002, Spurs coach Gregg Popovich suggested that Bryant had acquired that Jordanesque "uncommon will to win."
Bryant learned to discard flamboyance for flamboyance's sake. He learned to hoard the special moves and save them for the special moments. It's a hard transition from gunner without conscience to the player that others turn to at winning time.
"I've kind of grown into this role," Bryant said, "where my teammates look at me and expect me to deliver." He was 23 when he said that.
Bryant was bred to play basketball. His father, Joe, played on three NBA teams in eight seasons. While a member of the Philadelphia 76ers, Joe's third child was born on Aug. 23, 1978. Kobe was named after a Japanese steakhouse in King of Prussia, Pa.
In 1984, a year after wrapping up his NBA career, the 6-foot-9½ Jellybean took his game to Italy. He became a popular star in the Italian League, averaging 29.7 points over seven seasons for four teams. His enthusiasm and dazzling play also earned him a new nickname: "Magic."
During breaks in the action in his father's games, Kobe entertained the crowd with his fancy dribbling and shooting. He played basketball by himself after school. Besides his father, he also had help in learning the game from overseas.
Kobe's grandparents not only sent tapes of what the Bryants were missing culturally (e.g., "The Cosby Show" and "The Fresh Prince of Bel Air"), they sent videos of NBA games to Italy. Kobe grew up watching Michael Jordan, Larry Bird and Magic Johnson. At nine, Kobe was breaking down his first video scouting tape, and he had a fondness for Magic and the "Showtime" Lakers.
With few American families in Italy, the Bryants grew close. They picked up the Italian custom of long dinners, and Kobe sat around with his parents and two older sisters.
In December 1991, the Bryants moved back to the U.S., to the Philadelphia suburb of Ardmore. The next year, Kobe entered Lower Merion High School. By the summer of his junior year, he was playing pickup games with members of the 76ers. As a senior, Bryant led the Aces to the 1996 Pennsylvania state championship. He was selected national player of the year by USA Today and Parade magazine. Off the court, Kobe received press when he took singer and actress Brandy to his prom.
But Bryant faced a major decision: What level to play on next? With good grades, he could play for any college. Or he could also make the jump straight to the NBA, as Kevin Garnett had done a year earlier.
On April 29, 1996, Bryant announced he would "take his talent to the NBA." A big reason for his skipping college was so he could play while Jordan was still in the league.
With the 13th pick in the draft, Charlotte selected Bryant. Fifteen days later, he was a Laker when Jerry West traded starting center Vlade Divac for the untested teenager.
As a rookie, Bryant won the Slam Dunk contest, just as Jordan had in his first season. But while Jordan had averaged 28.2 points as a rookie after playing three years at North Carolina, the less experienced Bryant averaged just 7.6 points in 15.5 minutes.
His last game that season defined his young career. With the Lakers facing elimination in Game 5 of the 1997 Western Conference semifinals against Utah, Bryant had the ball with the score tied and just seconds remaining. He threw up an airball and the contest went into overtime. Bryant tried to take charge again, but airballed three more shots. The Lakers lost, ending their season.
Nine months later, he was the youngest player to start an All-Star Game. The buildup was immense. Bryant's full-page photo appeared against a full-page photo of Jordan's. The showdown was on, and Bryant was ready to duel, frequently going one-on-one with MJ. Although the East won and Jordan was named MVP, Bryant led the West with 18 points. Afterwards, Jordan told Bryant he admired his game and to keep being aggressive.
During the regular season, Bryant continued to come off the bench, starting just one game. However, with increased playing time, he more than doubled his scoring average to 15.4.
Bryant's game, smile, and demeanor drew the attention of advertisers. He campaigned for Adidas, Sprite, Spalding and McDonald's. But Bryant wasn't always so easily accepted by everybody.
His must-win attitude didn't get him on the side of his fellow Lakers early in his career. He kept to himself, rarely going out with teammates, sometimes sitting in his hotel room studying videotape. After dunking and soaking up the media attention, Bryant was nicknamed "Showboat" before he even played a game for the Lakers.
In his third season, Bryant became a starter, and he averaged 19.9 points, 5.3 rebounds and 3.8 assists in the lockout-shortened campaign. After the Lakers were again eliminated in the playoffs, former Chicago Bulls coach Phil Jackson was hired.
In his first season utilizing Jackson's triangle offense, Bryant averaged 22.5 points. In Game 7 of the 2000 Western Conference finals against Portland, Bryant shined. With LA down by 15 points in the fourth quarter, he piloted a comeback. He finished with 25 points, 11 rebounds, seven assists and four blocks in the Lakers' 89-84 victory.
In Game 4 of the NBA Finals, after Shaquille O'Neal fouled out in overtime, Bryant led the Lakers to a 120-118 victory. Although hobbled by a sprained left ankle, he scored eight of his 28 points in the extra session. Two games later, the Lakers gained their first NBA title in a dozen years. Bryant had truly arrived, and the team chemistry was flowing -- or so it seemed.
In the off-season, Bryant worked harder than ever. He believed that he, not Shaq, should be the focus of the offense. Earlier in their careers, there were hard feelings between two, culminating in O'Neal slapping Bryant during a pickup game.
Shaquille O'Neal, left, and Kobe Bryant show no signs of conflict at playoff time.
Bryant was shooting more in the 2000-2001 season as he averaged 28.5 points, fourth highest in the league. However, the Lakers didn't dominate as expected. The media had a field day. Quotes were plastered in the headlines about the rift between Bryant and O'Neal. But when the playoffs came, there was no sign of a conflict. In interviews, the two stars went out of their way to praise the other. Los Angeles breezed, setting a record by going 15-1 and beating the Philadelphia 76ers for the 2001 NBA crown.
During that season, on April 18, 2001, Bryant married 19-year-old Vanessa Laine. But life wouldn't be joyful for long.
When Bryant returned to Philadelphia for the 2002 All-Star Game, a harsh hometown crowd awaited him. He was booed almost every time he touched the ball. While Bryant earned the MVP award with 31 points, he admitted that he was hurt by the fans' reaction.
In 2002, Bryant was named first-team all-NBA for the first time after averaging 25.2 points (sixth in the league), 5.5 rebounds and 5.5 assists. In 2003, when the Lakers' streak of three consecutive titles ended, Bryant was voted first-team all-NBA again as he averaged 30 points (second in the league) and had career-highs in rebounds (6.9 per game) and assists (5.9).
Through his first seven seasons, Bryant has averaged 21.5 points, 5.0 rebounds and 4.2 assists. And as each year passes, the comparisons to Jordan intensify.
In July 2003, Bryant, who is known for his wholesome off-court persona, was charged with one count of sexual assault, a Class 3 felony that is the equivalent of rape, on a 19-year-old woman at a resort hotel where she worked in Edwards, Colo. With his wife at his side, Bryant said he was guilty of adultery, but was innocent of the rape charge. "I didn't force her to do anything against her will," he said.
I liked reading this aritcle even though it was a year ago...it made me feel that the writer was saying that Kobe may have wrecked his career because of last summer...but the writer made me respect Kobe's work ethic even more
By Kris Schwartz
Special to ESPN.com
As a rookie, Kobe Bryant won the Slam Dunk contest, just as Michael Jordan had in his first season.
"[Kobe] is going to have to make a stand, because when you are really good, people don't like you. He just has to draw a line in the sand and say I'm not backing down anymore," says Charles Barkley on ESPN Classic's SportsCentury series.
Kobe Bryant, who helped the Lakers win three straight NBA championships and is now accused of sexual assault, will be profiled on Wednesday and Thursday (August 6 and 7) at 7 p.m. ET.
He parachuted into the NBA directly from high school, an 18-year-old man-child with a self-confidence bordering on arrogance. Kobe Bryant had to grow up in public -- and he has done so, although the evolution has been difficult and fitful.
The 6-foot-7 Los Angeles Lakers guard was prematurely compared to Michael Jordan, but he persevered, working relentlessly, and over time his game has ripened. He relishes the moment that many run from and craves to have the ball -- and the game -- in his hands. When he beat San Antonio with pyrotechnic fourth quarters in back-to-back playoff games in 2002, Spurs coach Gregg Popovich suggested that Bryant had acquired that Jordanesque "uncommon will to win."
Bryant learned to discard flamboyance for flamboyance's sake. He learned to hoard the special moves and save them for the special moments. It's a hard transition from gunner without conscience to the player that others turn to at winning time.
"I've kind of grown into this role," Bryant said, "where my teammates look at me and expect me to deliver." He was 23 when he said that.
Bryant was bred to play basketball. His father, Joe, played on three NBA teams in eight seasons. While a member of the Philadelphia 76ers, Joe's third child was born on Aug. 23, 1978. Kobe was named after a Japanese steakhouse in King of Prussia, Pa.
In 1984, a year after wrapping up his NBA career, the 6-foot-9½ Jellybean took his game to Italy. He became a popular star in the Italian League, averaging 29.7 points over seven seasons for four teams. His enthusiasm and dazzling play also earned him a new nickname: "Magic."
During breaks in the action in his father's games, Kobe entertained the crowd with his fancy dribbling and shooting. He played basketball by himself after school. Besides his father, he also had help in learning the game from overseas.
Kobe's grandparents not only sent tapes of what the Bryants were missing culturally (e.g., "The Cosby Show" and "The Fresh Prince of Bel Air"), they sent videos of NBA games to Italy. Kobe grew up watching Michael Jordan, Larry Bird and Magic Johnson. At nine, Kobe was breaking down his first video scouting tape, and he had a fondness for Magic and the "Showtime" Lakers.
With few American families in Italy, the Bryants grew close. They picked up the Italian custom of long dinners, and Kobe sat around with his parents and two older sisters.
In December 1991, the Bryants moved back to the U.S., to the Philadelphia suburb of Ardmore. The next year, Kobe entered Lower Merion High School. By the summer of his junior year, he was playing pickup games with members of the 76ers. As a senior, Bryant led the Aces to the 1996 Pennsylvania state championship. He was selected national player of the year by USA Today and Parade magazine. Off the court, Kobe received press when he took singer and actress Brandy to his prom.
But Bryant faced a major decision: What level to play on next? With good grades, he could play for any college. Or he could also make the jump straight to the NBA, as Kevin Garnett had done a year earlier.
On April 29, 1996, Bryant announced he would "take his talent to the NBA." A big reason for his skipping college was so he could play while Jordan was still in the league.
With the 13th pick in the draft, Charlotte selected Bryant. Fifteen days later, he was a Laker when Jerry West traded starting center Vlade Divac for the untested teenager.
As a rookie, Bryant won the Slam Dunk contest, just as Jordan had in his first season. But while Jordan had averaged 28.2 points as a rookie after playing three years at North Carolina, the less experienced Bryant averaged just 7.6 points in 15.5 minutes.
His last game that season defined his young career. With the Lakers facing elimination in Game 5 of the 1997 Western Conference semifinals against Utah, Bryant had the ball with the score tied and just seconds remaining. He threw up an airball and the contest went into overtime. Bryant tried to take charge again, but airballed three more shots. The Lakers lost, ending their season.
Nine months later, he was the youngest player to start an All-Star Game. The buildup was immense. Bryant's full-page photo appeared against a full-page photo of Jordan's. The showdown was on, and Bryant was ready to duel, frequently going one-on-one with MJ. Although the East won and Jordan was named MVP, Bryant led the West with 18 points. Afterwards, Jordan told Bryant he admired his game and to keep being aggressive.
During the regular season, Bryant continued to come off the bench, starting just one game. However, with increased playing time, he more than doubled his scoring average to 15.4.
Bryant's game, smile, and demeanor drew the attention of advertisers. He campaigned for Adidas, Sprite, Spalding and McDonald's. But Bryant wasn't always so easily accepted by everybody.
His must-win attitude didn't get him on the side of his fellow Lakers early in his career. He kept to himself, rarely going out with teammates, sometimes sitting in his hotel room studying videotape. After dunking and soaking up the media attention, Bryant was nicknamed "Showboat" before he even played a game for the Lakers.
In his third season, Bryant became a starter, and he averaged 19.9 points, 5.3 rebounds and 3.8 assists in the lockout-shortened campaign. After the Lakers were again eliminated in the playoffs, former Chicago Bulls coach Phil Jackson was hired.
In his first season utilizing Jackson's triangle offense, Bryant averaged 22.5 points. In Game 7 of the 2000 Western Conference finals against Portland, Bryant shined. With LA down by 15 points in the fourth quarter, he piloted a comeback. He finished with 25 points, 11 rebounds, seven assists and four blocks in the Lakers' 89-84 victory.
In Game 4 of the NBA Finals, after Shaquille O'Neal fouled out in overtime, Bryant led the Lakers to a 120-118 victory. Although hobbled by a sprained left ankle, he scored eight of his 28 points in the extra session. Two games later, the Lakers gained their first NBA title in a dozen years. Bryant had truly arrived, and the team chemistry was flowing -- or so it seemed.
In the off-season, Bryant worked harder than ever. He believed that he, not Shaq, should be the focus of the offense. Earlier in their careers, there were hard feelings between two, culminating in O'Neal slapping Bryant during a pickup game.
Shaquille O'Neal, left, and Kobe Bryant show no signs of conflict at playoff time.
Bryant was shooting more in the 2000-2001 season as he averaged 28.5 points, fourth highest in the league. However, the Lakers didn't dominate as expected. The media had a field day. Quotes were plastered in the headlines about the rift between Bryant and O'Neal. But when the playoffs came, there was no sign of a conflict. In interviews, the two stars went out of their way to praise the other. Los Angeles breezed, setting a record by going 15-1 and beating the Philadelphia 76ers for the 2001 NBA crown.
During that season, on April 18, 2001, Bryant married 19-year-old Vanessa Laine. But life wouldn't be joyful for long.
When Bryant returned to Philadelphia for the 2002 All-Star Game, a harsh hometown crowd awaited him. He was booed almost every time he touched the ball. While Bryant earned the MVP award with 31 points, he admitted that he was hurt by the fans' reaction.
In 2002, Bryant was named first-team all-NBA for the first time after averaging 25.2 points (sixth in the league), 5.5 rebounds and 5.5 assists. In 2003, when the Lakers' streak of three consecutive titles ended, Bryant was voted first-team all-NBA again as he averaged 30 points (second in the league) and had career-highs in rebounds (6.9 per game) and assists (5.9).
Through his first seven seasons, Bryant has averaged 21.5 points, 5.0 rebounds and 4.2 assists. And as each year passes, the comparisons to Jordan intensify.
In July 2003, Bryant, who is known for his wholesome off-court persona, was charged with one count of sexual assault, a Class 3 felony that is the equivalent of rape, on a 19-year-old woman at a resort hotel where she worked in Edwards, Colo. With his wife at his side, Bryant said he was guilty of adultery, but was innocent of the rape charge. "I didn't force her to do anything against her will," he said.
I liked reading this aritcle even though it was a year ago...it made me feel that the writer was saying that Kobe may have wrecked his career because of last summer...but the writer made me respect Kobe's work ethic even more
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Fresh8 - The poster formerly known as Sit
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by Andrew on Tue Jun 29, 2004 4:34 pm
Good read, though MJ didn't actually win the dunk contest in his rookie year; he was runner-up to Nique. That's a pretty pedantic and irrelevant point though. 
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Andrew - Retro Basketball Gamer
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by Fresh8 on Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:26 pm
It's not my fault they compared him to MJ so many times!
Maybe the writer was saying that KObe has the potential to be Jordan BUT at the end....the time when he wrote it...he must have thought Kobe wrecked his career!
Maybe the writer was saying that KObe has the potential to be Jordan BUT at the end....the time when he wrote it...he must have thought Kobe wrecked his career!
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Fresh8 - The poster formerly known as Sit
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by th3gh05t on Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:00 pm
ok. since the kobe vs jordan @ 25 was locked. . .
i would have to say, watch the jordan dvds. u will nver say kobe is better, or even equal to jordan. Nobody is. and who the hell said kobe was a better passer/ ball handler than jordan. remember jordan pulling a dribbling exhibition 1997 against the knicks or something. all i think of kobe is his almost travelling/palming moves when he was a rookie.
o yea remember when there was like 20 games left in 88 or 87 or something, when bulls pg was injured, he averaged almost a triple double on those games. (i read in some jordan magazine)
any1 see jordan blocking EWING, nOT 1x, but 2x! 1 with pat fading away, and 1 break away. u guys think kobe can do tha? tsk tsk... nope
jordan dominated the game, even that chuck daly guy said he was embarassing the league coz he was that good.
"you're not just facing this guy. You're a fan of his" - mark jackson
i dont think any1 has said the same thing about fobe. i like kobe too. but i just laugh at ppl trying to compare kobe and jordan. also, i think kobe is in his prime, i cant see him getting any better.
hell, who scores back to back 40pt game at age 40. i doubt kobe would be able to do that.
similarities:
-cockiness
-winning
-killer instincts
-walk
-talk
-strut
differences:
-"prove-people-wrong" attitude (mj)
-hops (mj)
-hands (mj)
-height (mj)
-foot quickness (mj) -
-~>he has thousands of moves, his feet are so quick -drexler
-speed (mj)
-clutch (mj)
-grace (mj), stiffness (kobe)
-~>somehow, mj's moves are lot better lookin the kobe's
-power (mj)
-defense (mj)
-3pt (kobe)
-mid range (mj) *fadeaways, fadeaways. . . fadeaWAYS!! *shudders*
-statue (MJ! DUH) -~> kobe will never get one
ok, thanks. thats my essay. AHHA
i would have to say, watch the jordan dvds. u will nver say kobe is better, or even equal to jordan. Nobody is. and who the hell said kobe was a better passer/ ball handler than jordan. remember jordan pulling a dribbling exhibition 1997 against the knicks or something. all i think of kobe is his almost travelling/palming moves when he was a rookie.
o yea remember when there was like 20 games left in 88 or 87 or something, when bulls pg was injured, he averaged almost a triple double on those games. (i read in some jordan magazine)
any1 see jordan blocking EWING, nOT 1x, but 2x! 1 with pat fading away, and 1 break away. u guys think kobe can do tha? tsk tsk... nope
jordan dominated the game, even that chuck daly guy said he was embarassing the league coz he was that good.
"you're not just facing this guy. You're a fan of his" - mark jackson
i dont think any1 has said the same thing about fobe. i like kobe too. but i just laugh at ppl trying to compare kobe and jordan. also, i think kobe is in his prime, i cant see him getting any better.
hell, who scores back to back 40pt game at age 40. i doubt kobe would be able to do that.
similarities:
-cockiness
-winning
-killer instincts
-walk
-talk
-strut
differences:
-"prove-people-wrong" attitude (mj)
-hops (mj)
-hands (mj)
-height (mj)
-foot quickness (mj) -
-~>he has thousands of moves, his feet are so quick -drexler
-speed (mj)
-clutch (mj)
-grace (mj), stiffness (kobe)
-~>somehow, mj's moves are lot better lookin the kobe's
-power (mj)
-defense (mj)
-3pt (kobe)
-mid range (mj) *fadeaways, fadeaways. . . fadeaWAYS!! *shudders*
-statue (MJ! DUH) -~> kobe will never get one
ok, thanks. thats my essay. AHHA
- th3gh05t
- Posts: 108
- Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 11:09 am
by Andrew on Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:45 pm
(I'm moving this discussion from another thread)
I'd say Kobe will consider it. If he was 100% certain he wanted to remain a Laker, he would not have opted out and would be negotiating an extension instead. But I'm guessing he'll stay in LA, with Shaq most likely moving on.
fgrep15 wrote:ESPN's David Aldridge reports that the Suns are prepared to offer Los Angeles Lakers free agent guard Kobe Bryant a six-year deal in excess of $80 million. According to a source, the Suns are expected to make the offer just after midnight ET, the first allowable time for free agents to be contacted. The source also told Aldridge that the Suns will try to meet with Bryant's representatives on Friday in Los Angeles.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1832381
I'd say Kobe will consider it. If he was 100% certain he wanted to remain a Laker, he would not have opted out and would be negotiating an extension instead. But I'm guessing he'll stay in LA, with Shaq most likely moving on.
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