I love it...
Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:20 pm
This is great, from what I have read of the Lakers comments after the game, they still don't seem to think they lost because of the Pistons. They beat themselves, again. They weren't making their shots, could that be because ... gasp ... the Pistons defense actually may be better then the Lakers offense. You may have not noticed, but it wasn't like the Lakers were taking all kind of open shots and missing them, nearly ever shot was contested. They even contest Shaqs shots as much as they can. It's hard when someone that big is allowed to throw his weight around, and never get called for anything. Shaq takes so many free throws, most of them coming on fouls where a Piston player's face had the audacity to get in the way of his swinging elbow, or other things like that. Shaq gets away with so much, and this is why he appears to such a great and formidable player. You know, three times he was given another chance to make free throw after missing one, and he missed all three chances. Those stupid lane violations were getting old. But hey, you gotta feel sorry for the refs. They are doing their best to hand these games to Lakers so the NBA can get their money from ratings, but the Lakers just aren't taking the help.
Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:01 pm
Usually I see games a day or two after the fact (but will follow them online), and usually not before I've seen the results elsewhere. However I watched this game live. I could certainly get used to that. It was certainly worth the 50 minute drive to my cousin's place. 
Anyway, a couple of random thoughts: Shaq's slam off Gary Payton's "pass" in the first quarter should have been called offensive interference. Likewise, the goaltending call against Kobe in the second quarter looked like a block to me. At the end of the day it didn't matter, but a couple of interesting calls (especially the goaltending call on Kobe).
Speaking of Kobe, his shot selection wasn't great tonight as has already been noted. From the time he put up that ill-advised three in the first couple of minutes, I figured it was going to be a similar situation to Game 3. He still has a tendencey to fire before he should, as soon as he gets the ball and he feels he has good position. He managed to score 20, but he shot 8/25 and did little else apart from getting a steal and a couple of assists. A lot of shots simply looked forced. He only attempted two free throws, but he wasn't taking the ball to the basket much.
Shaq was dominant with 36 and 20. Even after he scored 17 in the first half I sort of expected the Lakers to move away from him, and for long stretches during the third they did; bad idea. A couple of ill-advised shots elsewhere when Shaq was having such a great night certainly kept the game close in the second half which ultimately worked in the Pistons' favour. Had they allowed Shaq to continue piling up the points in the third, they might have blown the game open and taken an advantage into the final period.
Still, the Pistons' play was just as responsible for the outcome as the Lakers'. Billups, Hamilton and Sheed all made some big shots in the final six minutes. I figured the Lakers would charge back and take the lead when it was 70-67, but Billups' three was huge.
Mark Brown and Chris Weitzman (I believe they're the guys who commentate NBA games on ESPN International) criticised the Lakers for allowing the Pistons to run so much time off the clock in the final minute, but the game was pretty much decided at that point, in my opinion. Fouling the Pistons would have basically just widened the gap.
I'm not about to count the Lakers out until the Pistons actually win the title, but to say that the Lakers will storm through the next three games to win in seven is to greatly underestimate the Pistons. I think there's a very real chance the series could end in Game 5, though let's wait until the game is played before we make anything official.
Anyway, a couple of random thoughts: Shaq's slam off Gary Payton's "pass" in the first quarter should have been called offensive interference. Likewise, the goaltending call against Kobe in the second quarter looked like a block to me. At the end of the day it didn't matter, but a couple of interesting calls (especially the goaltending call on Kobe).
Speaking of Kobe, his shot selection wasn't great tonight as has already been noted. From the time he put up that ill-advised three in the first couple of minutes, I figured it was going to be a similar situation to Game 3. He still has a tendencey to fire before he should, as soon as he gets the ball and he feels he has good position. He managed to score 20, but he shot 8/25 and did little else apart from getting a steal and a couple of assists. A lot of shots simply looked forced. He only attempted two free throws, but he wasn't taking the ball to the basket much.
Shaq was dominant with 36 and 20. Even after he scored 17 in the first half I sort of expected the Lakers to move away from him, and for long stretches during the third they did; bad idea. A couple of ill-advised shots elsewhere when Shaq was having such a great night certainly kept the game close in the second half which ultimately worked in the Pistons' favour. Had they allowed Shaq to continue piling up the points in the third, they might have blown the game open and taken an advantage into the final period.
Still, the Pistons' play was just as responsible for the outcome as the Lakers'. Billups, Hamilton and Sheed all made some big shots in the final six minutes. I figured the Lakers would charge back and take the lead when it was 70-67, but Billups' three was huge.
Mark Brown and Chris Weitzman (I believe they're the guys who commentate NBA games on ESPN International) criticised the Lakers for allowing the Pistons to run so much time off the clock in the final minute, but the game was pretty much decided at that point, in my opinion. Fouling the Pistons would have basically just widened the gap.
I'm not about to count the Lakers out until the Pistons actually win the title, but to say that the Lakers will storm through the next three games to win in seven is to greatly underestimate the Pistons. I think there's a very real chance the series could end in Game 5, though let's wait until the game is played before we make anything official.
Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:29 pm
I agree, that's a good article. I think the Lakers' biggest weakness the last couple of years has been over-confidence. Often they realise an opponent is for real and can turn it up (or flip that "switch"), but that's a dangerous approach; sometimes it comes too late.
Even if that's the case, they're leaving it pretty late to start playing their best. If they have been coasting, they picked a bad time to do it, and a bad time to stop doing it. If they don't play their best in the next game, that could it be it.
Again, I'm not ready to count the Lakers out, but Detroit are in great shape to take Game 5 and the title. Shaq's right - the Lakers are capable of beating Detroit on any given night. But like the article says, it's not enough to just expect it to happen, they have to go out and do it.
The Article wrote:"We know we can play with this team," O’Neal said. "We know we haven’t played our best yet."
Even if that's the case, they're leaving it pretty late to start playing their best. If they have been coasting, they picked a bad time to do it, and a bad time to stop doing it. If they don't play their best in the next game, that could it be it.
Again, I'm not ready to count the Lakers out, but Detroit are in great shape to take Game 5 and the title. Shaq's right - the Lakers are capable of beating Detroit on any given night. But like the article says, it's not enough to just expect it to happen, they have to go out and do it.
Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:59 pm
Just on thing I noticed from the article:
The dufuss of a writer said Prince had a 72-inch wingspan. Maybe the artist formerly known as Prince, but not Teyshaun. 72 inches is only 6 feet! His arms would look STUPID lol.
He meant 7'2"
The dufuss of a writer said Prince had a 72-inch wingspan. Maybe the artist formerly known as Prince, but not Teyshaun. 72 inches is only 6 feet! His arms would look STUPID lol.
He meant 7'2"
Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:07 pm
I think the Lakers are too proud. They need to admit that Detroit is killing them, instead they come up with some sort of excuse that it's themselves they have to blame. And partially they do, but the majority of their problems lay in what the Pistons do. They have no answer
Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:57 pm
whlee75 wrote:All those who blame Kobe for not passing the ball...
I am just wondering who else he can pass it to except for Shaq?
Then he should keep passing the ball to Shaq.
Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:14 pm
Kobe played terrible in this series if you dont count game 2, YOU CAN NOT SHOOT OVER A PLAYER WITH A 7FT WINGSPAN!!!
Either get to the rim which he can but just doesnt for some reason, or give it to Shaq. Why does he only drive to the hole if they need a score, when they are down by 6 or something with 2 minutes to go, yeah...hell drive then, so why not during the whole freaking game instead of jacking up shots?!?
Malone, take the damn shot when you are left open and when there are 5 seconds on the shotclock, why pass it to Payton or Kobe who nearly have to shoot it with their left hands to get it close to the rim, you are the greatest power forward ever so start acting like one.
I really dont know what to say and I am really upset, if someone upsets me even more in person today, he can count on a fist in his face
The Pistons still havent won the series so its not impossible Lakeshow!!! please start playing smart basketball on the offensive end, I admit the Pistons defense is vert good, but not perfect...just think before you do something please. I still believe
Either get to the rim which he can but just doesnt for some reason, or give it to Shaq. Why does he only drive to the hole if they need a score, when they are down by 6 or something with 2 minutes to go, yeah...hell drive then, so why not during the whole freaking game instead of jacking up shots?!?
Malone, take the damn shot when you are left open and when there are 5 seconds on the shotclock, why pass it to Payton or Kobe who nearly have to shoot it with their left hands to get it close to the rim, you are the greatest power forward ever so start acting like one.
I really dont know what to say and I am really upset, if someone upsets me even more in person today, he can count on a fist in his face
The Pistons still havent won the series so its not impossible Lakeshow!!! please start playing smart basketball on the offensive end, I admit the Pistons defense is vert good, but not perfect...just think before you do something please. I still believe
Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:10 pm
Just saw some highlights...man Kobe had a horribe shot selection! I saw him run in through the lane and jump back sideways and try and score....
He said his usual line,"My shots werent dropping!" At this rate anyone can play like Kobe...miss 20 shots in a game...pretty easy to achieve hey? I'm not hating my favourite player...I'm frustrated that his stubborness is costing our championship!
And read an article somewhere...saying that the Lakers are screwed because they overpayed George and should have drafted Tayshaun Prince instead of Rush....(Even though they got Rush via trade) and now they have no money
He said his usual line,"My shots werent dropping!" At this rate anyone can play like Kobe...miss 20 shots in a game...pretty easy to achieve hey? I'm not hating my favourite player...I'm frustrated that his stubborness is costing our championship!
And read an article somewhere...saying that the Lakers are screwed because they overpayed George and should have drafted Tayshaun Prince instead of Rush....(Even though they got Rush via trade) and now they have no money
Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:09 pm
Shaq says the pressure is on Detroit because they have to try to finish off the Lakers.. with they way the Pistons are playing oraganized basketball, they're gonna do just that on wednesday. They showed their exceptional composure and depth in the previous games and i dont see why that shouldn't be evident in the next game(s).
Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:39 pm
Homer wrote:well east got the champs after years.Well guys i think it is over !! Lakers aint comin back from 3-1.well if they do it it will be a great comeback.But no way (maybe if they win game 5)!!! who is gonna get MVP ? Rip,Billups,Ben,Sheed tough choice.but i think they gotta go with Rip or Sheed.
not a tough choice
billups no doubt
constantly tearing the glove apart each and every game
'sheed had only one good game, ben is well, ben
rip was missing the first 2 games
Oh, and everyone keeps on saying Lakers haven't played yet...
4 games down, 3 to go, either play or go home without the ring is what it melts down to...
Also Kobe is just fustrated no one is hitting shots...either he shoots a bad shot or he passes it to someone for a brick [someone other than shaq]
Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:05 pm
Well..no matter wat- I'll still be rooting for the Lakers in the end!
And plus..if we lose- won't the summer be interesting!
And plus..if we lose- won't the summer be interesting!
Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:15 am
I'm still holding on to faint hope..but it seems this is all but over.
Regarding Kobe Bryant: Your shot selection is bad. May I remind you what Michael Jordan did when they implemented the Jordan rules? He drove to the hoop, and number two, he developed that killer fade-away jumpshot. Get in the gym, and develop that fade away to perfection. That is the kind of shot that breaks defenses hearts after they've expanded so much energy so you won't score, and it was also one reason why Jordan was so unstoppable. Kobe also needs to bulk up a little more and go down in the post. What a horrible shot selection. I can and will blame him for it, but what the heck is with his teammates shooting bricks. The Lakers lost because Kobe had a terrible shot selection and the supporting cast was not hitting the wide open shots he gave them when he passed the freakin ball.
Regarding Shaq:He was the only Laker that did anything. I don't have to say more.
Regarding Payton: Came to play tonight...for the first half. Where the heck were you come crunch time? Why did you stop creating your own shot when the Lakers needed it most? If they are swarming Kobe and you cant pass it to Shaq because he was missing FTs then create something one on one!! You did it before!
Regarding poor free throw shooting, shooting peroid: As terrible as the Lakers shot tonight, they still had a chance to take this game. But their bane came back to bite them. They missed a ton of FT's down the stretch, Shaq in particular, and how about those two misses by Devean George!!!! You are a better FT shooter than Shaq, why, after he makes TWO do you go and negate them by missing yours?!?!
Plus the Lakers couldn't hit their big shots. The game came down to who executed down the stretch. Pistons did. Lakers did not. Pistons pulled away. Pistons have a shot to finish em off at the Palace.
One other note. The Pistons had better not let this go back to LA. There is no way the Lakers lose a game 6 IMO. and game 7 could be crazy.
Regarding Kobe Bryant: Your shot selection is bad. May I remind you what Michael Jordan did when they implemented the Jordan rules? He drove to the hoop, and number two, he developed that killer fade-away jumpshot. Get in the gym, and develop that fade away to perfection. That is the kind of shot that breaks defenses hearts after they've expanded so much energy so you won't score, and it was also one reason why Jordan was so unstoppable. Kobe also needs to bulk up a little more and go down in the post. What a horrible shot selection. I can and will blame him for it, but what the heck is with his teammates shooting bricks. The Lakers lost because Kobe had a terrible shot selection and the supporting cast was not hitting the wide open shots he gave them when he passed the freakin ball.
Regarding Shaq:He was the only Laker that did anything. I don't have to say more.
Regarding Payton: Came to play tonight...for the first half. Where the heck were you come crunch time? Why did you stop creating your own shot when the Lakers needed it most? If they are swarming Kobe and you cant pass it to Shaq because he was missing FTs then create something one on one!! You did it before!
Regarding poor free throw shooting, shooting peroid: As terrible as the Lakers shot tonight, they still had a chance to take this game. But their bane came back to bite them. They missed a ton of FT's down the stretch, Shaq in particular, and how about those two misses by Devean George!!!! You are a better FT shooter than Shaq, why, after he makes TWO do you go and negate them by missing yours?!?!
Plus the Lakers couldn't hit their big shots. The game came down to who executed down the stretch. Pistons did. Lakers did not. Pistons pulled away. Pistons have a shot to finish em off at the Palace.
One other note. The Pistons had better not let this go back to LA. There is no way the Lakers lose a game 6 IMO. and game 7 could be crazy.
Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:20 am
It's simply amazing the way Detroit has controlled this series. Except for that one lapse in Game 2, the Pistons have dictated the tempo. I don't see the Lakers coming back.
Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:33 am
I'm glad Shaq is showing up. I always thought he was the most important player on the Lakers during their title runs (and his MVPs pretty much show that), but he has been the consistent leading scorer in this series. In Game 4 he tried a hell of a lot harder than anyone on his team, and the best part is I didn't see him complain one time to the referees.
IMO, the Lakers should throw in the towel the next game. To me they don't deserve to be in the Finals with the way they're getting severely outplayed... this should have ended tonight in a sweep.
IMO, the Lakers should throw in the towel the next game. To me they don't deserve to be in the Finals with the way they're getting severely outplayed... this should have ended tonight in a sweep.
Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:04 am
whlee75 wrote:All those who blame Kobe for not passing the ball...
I am just wondering who else he can pass it to except for Shaq?
EXACTLY. PASS IT TO SHAQ. HE's BIG, HE'S HOT, HE's DAMN GOOD. So why not pass it to him? (The caps were no mistake.) It's plain and simple. Easy as pie. I could do it better.
Step 1. Grab ball
Step 2. Look at Shaq (it's easy, he's HUGE.)
Step 3. Pass to Shaq
Step 4. Crush your ego.
Step 5. Watch as the shot goes in. Cuz it will. It's Shaq for God's SAKE!
Larry Brown seems to know Kobe's ego too well...Why? Well, gee, a certain 76er of course! Allen Iverson! Larry Brown knew Kobe wouldn't pass and executed that in PERFECTION. I despise you Kobe.
Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:10 am
bangyounh wrote:Larry Brown seems to know Kobe's ego too well...Why? Well, gee, a certain 76er of course! Allen Iverson! Larry Brown knew Kobe wouldn't pass and executed that in PERFECTION. I despise you Kobe.
LOL, actually Kobe did pass..just that all the times he did his teammates didn't hit anything. Thus he tried to do it himself.
Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:19 am
Well...I have to say my stay on the Laker bandwagon was a short one. Make room Pistons fans...cuz here I come to join the cause!
Go PISTONS Go!
(By the way...make note that your best challenge came from...who else? The New Jersey Nets. So that makes them the second best team in the league AFAIC.)
Seriously though, I can't wait to see all the stupid columnists and announcers eat crow about all that "Leastern Conference" junk they'd been talking about for the past few seasons. I could just feel that it was going to come back and bite them.
Go PISTONS Go!
(By the way...make note that your best challenge came from...who else? The New Jersey Nets. So that makes them the second best team in the league AFAIC.)
Seriously though, I can't wait to see all the stupid columnists and announcers eat crow about all that "Leastern Conference" junk they'd been talking about for the past few seasons. I could just feel that it was going to come back and bite them.
Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:28 am
The East is still weaker though, if the Pistons were playing Minnesotta I think they'd have a much bigger challenge than the Lakers.
The one thing is that their are a lot of defensive Eastern teams, s the East teams know how to play against them, and even the Nets are a good defensive team, but the West doesn't have that many, and the teams will not be used to the looks of teams that just surround you and get to your head with their defense.
Even Milwaukee was putting up a better fight, they won one in the Pistons home, but this will give the East some respect.
The one thing is that their are a lot of defensive Eastern teams, s the East teams know how to play against them, and even the Nets are a good defensive team, but the West doesn't have that many, and the teams will not be used to the looks of teams that just surround you and get to your head with their defense.
Even Milwaukee was putting up a better fight, they won one in the Pistons home, but this will give the East some respect.
Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:34 am
bangyounh wrote:Oh yea, even IF the Pistons win or WHEN the Lakers win, Shaq will get finals MVP. He should, he gave it his all.
Screw Kobe.
I hate you now Kobe.
Learn how to pass. Look it up in a dictionary.
P-A-S-S. It's only four letters, even a high schooler like you could find that out. Pass it to shaq the next three games or else...
GO SHAQ! GO LAKERS!
ben gave it his all, sheed gave it his all, prince, lindsey, rip, billups, the whole detriot team gave it their all. one of them should be finals MVP an one of them will be.
Yessie4200 wrote::evil:
YA HEARD!!!!!
Dream On.
Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:00 am
the one thing that i am sick of most is those camera guys just showing luke walton like he is god wtf??!! he was good in game two but thats it....the pistons have a very good chance of winning the championship...my prediction for game 5 is that the lakers will win if shaq doesnt mess up the jumball again
Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:15 am
Could it just be a case where the Lakers have the tendency to play down to the level of their competition? They've done it over and over again and I think this time is where it catches up to them.
Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:27 am
Robby wrote:Redbulls wrote:The reason Phil hasn't played Russell according to some media here is because of Michael Jordan. Phil consultant with MJ about Russell's stint in Washington and I guess MJ didn't think too highly of him.
Could you list some of the sources where you heard that because I'd like to know more about this?
I heard it on the radio, some guy named Vick the Brick Jacobs said it. He works for a local sports radio station in L.A. XTRA SPORTS 1150 AM and always has inside info on the Lakers. I also heard today that Fox,Kobe,Shaq,Devean, and Fisher approached Phil to start them in game 4 because they had the most experience running the triangle. According to this same source Phil said he would think about and would discuss it with the rest of the team. Mabey Phil will do it in game 5. I don't think you want Fox or George on Sheed though.
Anyways, based upon Kobe's last two performances.... can we please stop the MJ comparisons? MJ would never jeopardize a championship to prove he was "the man." Unless Kobe wills the Lakers to make history and come back from 3-1 in the Finals, he's going to have a hard time convincing people that he will be the greatest SG of all time.
Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:36 am
Redbulls wrote:Could it just be a case where the Lakers have the tendency to play down to the level of their competition? They've done it over and over again and I think this time is where it catches up to them.
No.
It looks to be a case where they can't play UP to the level of competition.