KOBE TALK (Your one-stop shop for everything Kobe!)

yeah...I know about Marbury...selfish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, IF he decides to leave it will probably be because of his own ego, not that its a bad thing as many people say.

Kobe has won 3 championips as Matmat8 said, and now its time to move on, even if he never wins another championship...he still can say "I got 3 of them", like Andrew said, what seperates him from the higher elite players, is his self success...the abbility to lead his own team to victories and maybe championships, also his name in certain individual awards like the MVP. Im 80% sure that he is gone, even after he said that he enjoyed playing for Shaq and Phil, but we all know better what he wants.

A team that has the talent, but not the right superstar in the team would be a nice fit, Im talking about teams like the Knicks, Grizzlies, Phoenix etc... That does mean that he has to take a paycut, but I think his personal goals are more important for him then the money is, Im pretty sure that he has enough money on his bank account to live with anyway.

I think it will be 1 of these 3 teams that he will play for in no particular order:

-Knicks
-Suns
-Clippers

I dont think he will be found guilty, because of the development of the case as Andrew said, and it seems that the defense has more evidence in his favour, then the accusers have against him, I wouldnt be surprised if this trial would be dismissed because of the lack of evidence against him.

Also I want to say that Kobe still will be my favourite player even if he decides to leave the Lakers, and I probably will have him in my signature and avater even if he signs somewhere else, but my heart will always be with the Lakers

Hmmm, Kobe - Amare, that's not bad, that's not bad at all.
I really hope he doesn't go to new york, I just can't picture him in a knicks jersey. Maybe because I hate the knicks, but it could be beter if they kicked that stupid Allan Houston out (Aaaaah I hate that guy).

I think Phil and Kobe are both gone...but am I the only one with the feeling that maybe two, three years down the line Phil Jackson is going to Coach Kobe again? Just a gut feeling..I know they don't like each other now, but I think Kobe might realize how good Phil was when Phil's gone.

I have the same feeling too. There is a sort of love&hate relationship b/w the 2. PJ can see how Kobe is closed to become what MJ had become. It's just the situation now that is not good for neither of them and it's because of Shaq. Kobe wants to be the leader and 1st option and he deserves it. BUt Shaq is more dominant.

It would be great to see Kobe and PJ with Isiah, but I don't think will ever happen. Do you think LA would trade him for Houston? PLease...and as a free agent the Knicks do not have money to sign him beacuse of salary cap.

How about Mcgrady for Kobe? Would you do it if you were the Magic? Think about it, T-MAc does not want to go through a rebuilding process, he wants to win now. Shaq loves t-mac. Kobe would have as many shots as he wants. Not sure though how feasibile this is...

close to becoming mj? can i have some of what you're smoking? i wouldnt compare mj to kobe if a castrate were twisting my nuts. hitting circus shots that somewhat resemble mj doesnt mean your mj, dr. j could do miracles and he's a great player, but he's nowhere near mj. vince carter can make beauties too, but he's even further from mj territory than kobe. Comparing kobe to mj because he's losing and sucks dick while losing is stupid, look at malone he's lost his whole career and hasnt learned anything. Oh and by the way kobe has lost and won where he was the SECOND priority on defense. mj has always been numero uno. hey, if kobe had anywhere CLOSE to the numbers mj had during his 8 seasons i'd be the first to bow down, but gimme a break. putting kobes name in a sentence next to mj is just plain insulting.

He's a great player dont get me wrong, just stop overrating him, he is what he is.

Magius, I love you.

*sigh* I thinks Kobe + Phil is gone. Or, Kobe could stay & Shaq is traded away. (You wouldn't be in your right mind, right?...Kupchak, need I say more?)

All I can say for now is, it's going to be a mighty entertaining off-season. Entertainment is what you get from Hollywood I guess.

close to becoming mj? can i have some of what you're smoking?

Excuse me? Maybe you were smoking too much when watching MJ playing. At the beginning MJ was like Kobe is now, forcing shots and try to win by himself, with teammates complaining. Then he realized where he was wrong and became the Jordan we rememebr in the last 6-7 years of his career with the Bulls. But MJ hasn't been always perfect, it took time . Kobe is 25 and still has many years of prime basketball ahead. I've never seen any player with that creative offensive talent, he moves all the defense, can penetrate against the best defenders in the league. Teams need to triple him most of the times. I think his playmaking skills are much better than those of MJ at 25, in fact the Bulls needed Pippen for running the offense, not MJ. But Kobe still tends to forget how to play in the right way sometime. MJ wasn't like Kobe at 25, Kobe is better. Stop remembering only the perfect games from MJ, he had bad ones as well. Read again the article posted in this forum.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2 ... id=1821993

Putting MJ and Kobe in the same sentence is not a blasfemy at all.

And by the way, that article is written by Sam Smith, who covers the NBA for the Chicago Tribune (Hello?! Chicago...) and he cites J.Dumars who defended Michael for years. Damn, I wish I wrote that article, it's exactly the way I feel...

Untill Kobe doesn't turn into MJ, let's not compare the two. It makes my stomach lurch.

On second thought, do and say whatever you all want to say. I'll need something to quote in the future.

i've already read that article and i dont agree with it, their are plenty of articles that say different written by writers just as "accredited" as mr. whatshisface. the truth is the points that this guy is using to compare are so generalized its laughable. I could easily plug iversons name in and bam! iverson is jordan. uh huh.

if you are so unrecoverably kobe-fanatic that you think kobe is better than mj at 25, well, what can i do? look at the numbers is all i can say. hey id take kobe taking as many bad shots as mj did at 25 if kobe were hitting a 50+ field goal percentage. your writer idol also seems to think present-day shaq is akin to luke longley or something, and if you want to see tripled team every possession see shaq, see tmac. kobe is not triple teamed all the time....... of course people have to step up off the pick and roll!! and if youre driving no matter who your are the defense collapses on you -- if that is your case for kobe getting almost triple teamed all the time then so is marbury, and countless other drive and dish points. if kobe is such a great playmaker i wonder how come he never averaged over 6 assists per game, oh right, we're forgetting his invisible passes to make believe players. okay, well, in that case...........

the only thing kobe has at 25 better than mj at 25 is 3 point range. thats it. other than that kobe is a far lesser player.

if you're going to say kobe is anywhere close to mj give me hard proof. give me numbers. dont give me fuzzy similarities.

and no i wouldnt call comparing mj and kobe blasphemy. more like atrocity.

i think everyone needs to stop comparing kobe to mj.

i don't think kobe wants to be the next mj. even if he did idolize jordan as a kid, any player would want to be remembered by his own name, his own way. they have similarities in style, but totally different situation. the players in the nba are different now, style of play is different. i don't even think anyone can average over 30 pts anymore if the trend in scoring and defense continues.

at least starting next season, (assuming he gets acquitted) kobe can prove to everyone (which i think what he wants) whether he can be the mvp or not. he already had 3 rings, 2 years ago and i don't think he's too challenged by the thought of winning another one with the lakers. the mvp and/or scoring title is his next goal (and eventually of course, a ring without shaq).

i don't think he's a fit for phil's triangle because it's not the same triangle used in chicago which revolved around jordan. i think he would be better off playing with a young, up tempo team where he is "the man". -Clippers, Grizzlies or Suns perhaps...

Last edited by fish23 on Thu Jun 17, 2004 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

I think Kobe doesn't want to be compared to MJ because he still loses in this comparison, and you know Kobe doesn't want to be second to anyone...

Magius (i'm trying to bring down the tone of the conversation), I don't think the answer is in the numbers. As said, the league has changed, defense is better.

And when I say he is tripled most of the times I truly mean that 3 players are told to watch out for Bryant many times, not just stepping up in a pick&roll situation.

You can tell this from these Finals, L.Brown chose not to double Shaq but to focus on Bryant. Bryant IS the engine for the Lakers, he's the one creating and making things happening. If you put Bryant in a cage where he has 2-3 players pressing on him all the time as soon as he moves one feet, the entire lakers offense lacks motion.

Detroit chose to beat the Lakers by beating Briant, not O'Neil, that alone tells a lot.

Also, take a look at one of the classic NBA finals from the 80's and early 90s...yes defense is there, but the defense we have now in the league is another story.

yes it does tell a lot considering the lakers got annihlated using said strategy. it shows that a dimnished shaq = a dimnished kobe. It shows that when kobe is the number one defensive priority for the first time in his career he shoots below 40. can you say iverson? It shows how much kobe depended on shaq to win those championships.

anyway, im tired of talking about this i dont like or dislike kobe enough to type so much about him, he's really nothing special to me. We'll just see what happens next season, okay? you have your opinions and i have mine, and i can see im not going to change yours, so i dont know why im wasting my time. i already said this like 10 threads back, i shouldve just stuck with it like smart mr. jackal

Ehehe, make one Kobe fan see reason, another pops up with the same arguments as the former Fan, do a search Andre, we've more than explained how much Kobe depends on Shaq & that Shaq is the most valuable player on the Lakers' Squad, I won't bother explaining it all over again.

Shaq is more dominant, but he is not more valuable to the Lakers than Kobe. Kobe and Shaq are both of equal value. The Lakers would've been blown out of the water in the finals if Kobe was not taking those shots. People act like Shaq was being ignored the whole time but in reality after he started strong every game he got tired and thus became less effective. Kobe is the creator, Shaq is the finisher, and Kobe is the closer.

I think some people are in for a huge shock if Kobe isn't in LA next season. What supporting cast to the Lakers have minus Bryant? The same one that couldn't hit a shot to save their life in the Finals? Please. Gary Payton can't hit a jump shot if a ring depended on it. Karl Malone is halfway to retirement. Derek Fisher is old and washed up. Slava Medvedinko is inconsistent. Kareem Rush is irratic. Rick Fox has no legs left. Devean George is unmotivated fifty percent of the time and when he is motivated he isn't consistently stable enough. Luke Walton can pass but that's about it. Brian Cook looks lost out there. This is the Lakers supporting cast.

Shaq is unstoppable when its the first half and he wants to be. But come the 2nd half and he gets tired from being run up and down the court constantly. Shaq was supposed to get a trainer to work on that, he's the best player supposedly, your best player can't fade down the stretch you need him most. His fading is two fold, one is teammates not getting him the ball but the other half is due to the fact that he's too tired to get into position and demand the ball anyway. This from your best player?

Kobe has the passion and the competetiveness every night, yes he makes bad shots sometimes but he creates the offense for the supporting cast you just read about. You have to live with those bad shots sometimes when you have that creative genius on the floor. And if you want him to pass his teammates have to hit their shots. If you want him to give it to Shaq then Shaq has to want the ball.

*sigh* As I've said, look it up. Shaq is more valuable because he commands the double team, this makes it much easier for Kobe.

We saw what happens when they don't double Shaq. Kobe = nada.

All eyes were on Bryant...

Shaq is more valuable because Shaq makes it much easier for Kobe, than Kobe does for Shaq, yes..he makes it easier, but not as easy as Shaq makes it for him.

That's a summary of all my arguments put together. Laddas was gracious enough to see I was correct. It's upto you to decide wheather you agree or not, whatever your choice, it's your choice, not much I can do about it.

I doubt people will be in such a shock next year if Bryant isnt there. What I do expect is alot of Kobe fans to turn around and say "you said he was good without Kobe. They are losing at the moment." All I have to say is Shaq is going down, that's obvious, I pity the fools that will bring up this excuse to defend Kobe next year. Shaq in 2000 > Kobe anytime.

His size still makes him more valuable, Detroit was smart, they let Shaq do his thing, without the double on Kobe, Kobe was..yeah.

Thanks, if more info is needed, I'll be glad to dig up the threads for you to read.

If you want him to give it to Shaq then Shaq has to want the ball.

Say what? Don't you read online articles etc? Don't you see games where you see Shaq fighting for position? He doesn't want the ball ?, please.

Shaq is unstoppable when its the first half and he wants to be. But come the 2nd half and he gets tired from being run up and down the court constantly. Shaq was supposed to get a trainer to work on that, he's the best player supposedly, your best player can't fade down the stretch you need him most. His fading is two fold, one is teammates not getting him the ball but the other half is due to the fact that he's too tired to get into position and demand the ball anyway. This from your best player?

Kobe has the passion and the competetiveness every night, yes he makes bad shots sometimes but he creates the offense for the supporting cast you just read about. You have to live with those bad shots sometimes when you have that creative genius on the floor. And if you want him to pass his teammates have to hit their shots. If you want him to give it to Shaq then Shaq has to want the ball.

okay i had to comment on this because it involves shaq first off you call averaging 26.6 ppgs on 63%, 10.8 rpgs, and 2.8 bpgs fading? if you're man is shooting 63% i dont care who you are you force feed him the ball if you have to. He played 5 games and only took 16.8 shots per a game!!!!! that is simply unexceptable. Watch the games, the moment they diverted from shaq were the moments the pistons made their runs. Kobe makes his teammates better? oh, is that why gary payton who just last year was arguably the second best point guard in the league just completely evaporated when playing with kobe? when was the last time since this year that another laker averaged anything close to 15 per? you've got it the other way around, shaq makes his teammates better and kobe nullifys his ability to by taking so many shots and not just simply giving it to shaq to open the floor up a little if nothing else (see divac, give it to shaq, cut, slash, use screens. easy points), Kobe should be the one taking 16 shots per and shaq 20+ with payton controlling the ball more often creating plays where he is comfortable. payton this year is payton taken out of his comfort zone and thus sucking, if you're a big league point you expect to handle the ball on a consistent basis. And dont use the excuse that nobody can hit a shot on the laker team, you know why nobody can hit a shot? because they are getting the ball so inconsistently, and contrary to popular belief most players shoot better the more they handle and the more comfortable they get with the ball. If you're only getting one or two shots a quarter its kinda hard to get in rythm dont you think?

kobe makes it somewhat easier for shaq by spreading the floor due to his 3 point range, but couldnt the same be said if sczerbiak were on the floor with shaq, or harpring? Shaq is one of a kind.

Remember, the lakers won a championship in 2000 with kobe averaging 15.6 ppgs. The only reason they cant do it again is because shaq is getting older. Anyway, its funny to notice that shaq was a .584% scorer in the regular season, played 67 games and only took 948 shots. Last year he played the same amount of games and took 1,211. Its the regular season, so thats okay, but in the playoffs theirs no excuse, you give him the ball and the shots and unless his percentage dips under 50 you keep giving it to him until he cries wolf.

EAGLE, Colo. -- The judge has granted Kobe Bryant's attorneys access to cell phone text messages sent among three people -- including the woman accusing the NBA star of rape -- in the hours after the alleged attack.


"The materials contain information that is relevant for discovery," state District Judge Terry Ruckriegle said in a decision released Thursday.


He ordered Bryant's defense team and Eagle County prosecutors to keep the messages and an accompanying letter from AT&T Wireless Communications Inc. sealed for now. Legal experts said the judge could rule later that the material is not relevant to the case.


"There's something in there," said Larry Pozner, a criminal defense attorney and past president of Colorado Criminal Defense Bar. "It has to be something more than 'I like pizza' or the judge wouldn't rule it relevant to look at."


Bryant, 25, has pleaded not guilty to felony sexual assault, saying he had consensual sex with a Vail-area resort worker in his hotel room last June 30. If convicted, the Los Angeles Lakers star faces four years to life in prison or 20 years to life on probation, and a fine of up to $750,000. The accuser turns 20 on Friday.


Defense attorneys have said the messages were sent within hours of the alleged attack among the accuser, a former boyfriend, Matt Herr, and a third, unidentified person.


Defense attorney Hal Haddon has said prosecutors did not subpoena the material, part of what he contends is an "ongoing pattern and practice of failing to look for -- and obstructing the defense's access to -- exculpatory evidence."


The judge has said the text messages might impeach statements or testimony, making them potentially "highly relevant" in the case.


Prosecutors took no formal position on whether AT&T should turn over the text messages to attorneys in the case. Herr's attorney, Keith Tooley, argued against the possibility at a recent hearing, saying the defense should not be allowed to go on a "fishing expedition."


Tooley's law office said he was out of town and he did not immediately return telephone and e-mail messages.


Criminal cases in Europe and Asia have hinged on text message evidence, but Bryant's case appears to be among the first in the nation in which the material could play a pivotal role.


AT&T Wireless fought a defense subpoena for the records, but turned them over to Ruckriegle when he asked for them. The company has said it cooperates with law enforcement but refused to discuss its policies on storing text messages.


"It's another link in the defense's chain of evidence," Pozner said of the messages. "From the beginning, this has been a case with the defense on the offensive, saying 'I can prove this.' When 'I can prove' becomes a defense team phrase, the prosecution is in trouble."


Bryant's attorneys also hope DNA samples from Herr and a co-worker of the accuser, bellman Bob Pietrack, will prove she lied about her sexual liaisons.


Tooley argued against that motion, too, saying forcing Herr to provide DNA would violate his constitutional rights and do nothing to shed light on whether the woman consented to sex with Bryant.


The woman's sexual history could be important if the judge allows it as evidence. The defense says injuries found on her during a hospital examination could have been caused by other sexual partners in the days surrounding her encounter with Bryant.

ESPN
Things are looking better and better for Kobe, I hope they can get something usefull out of this what can be used against the charges, so we might see this dismissed at all.

People, its easy to see shaq makes it easy for everyone.
yes kobe does make it easier, but ive come to believe that without shaq, kobe would struglle coz of his bad shot selection(he does hit a quite a few of the mtough ones, but i mean the ones when doubled, he hits them aswell but yous all get me)

Kobe can make it easier with driving then dishing, or finishing himself, his perimter skills and his range.
Shaq is the most dominant and you know him being there gives kobe space on the perimeter.
i say we cease the arguments and see what happens when its just shaq, and just kobe, seperated.

I dont remember the last time that Kobes defender came over to help Shaq on he defesive end, which causes Kobe to have a wide open shot. I dont feel like having these big arguments again about who is more valuable to the Lakers Shaq or Kobe, but I do want to say that Shaq is more dominant, they said that if Kobe wants Shaq to be traded, then they will try to trade him because they dont want to lose Kobe.

I do agree that 2000 Shaq > Kobe so far, but we are 4 years later now...Kobe = future, Shaq = Not.

I just don't want you guys to cry or get upset for this but if Kobe leaves the Lakers are not finished and the opponents are very aware of that.

, Pat Riley was asked once, who was the best player he had on that Lakers team, in other words "the reason why he became a winner". His answer was, Kareem. Sure I was hoping he would say Magic, who was considered the best of all time back then, but he specified Magic, Bird & MJ were right at the top, but Kareem was over the top. Jabbar back in the 80s, probably was never mentioned as the best player with Magic, Jordan & Bird but he was even greater than those.

Just like Kareem, Shaq is the most important player on the Lakers, no matter how you paint the situation, you need Shaq to win more than needing Kobe.

Where was Kobe in the finals? Kobe was behind a defensive scheme which neutralized his abilities, while Shaq was still doing the same thing he always does, dominating the paint. Everytime Shaq was in the bench, Detroit came with their run taking advantage of the situation.

Shaq right now, might not even be mentioned as the best player but he's more valuable, dominant & assure a better winning percentage than T-Mac, Kobe & Iverson. Kobe in another team will be another T-mac playing gmtb in Orlando.

Oh, right this is a Kobe talk, I think he's going, probably a sign & trade with Memphis.

Finally, a few people that agree Shaq is more important to LA then Kobe is/was. Again, I'm not saying he's not important, I'm just saying Shaq is MORE important.

I do agree that 2000 Shaq > Kobe so far, but we are 4 years later now...Kobe = future, Shaq = Not.

From the looks of it,...Kobe isn't the future of the Lakers.

Oh, and I whole heartedly agree that a Shaq led Lakers - Kobe still = a contender.

Yeah, I agree that if you take out Kobe from the Lakers that they still will be a team that can win games, the question is....How long will it take? 2/3 years maybe?

From the looks of it,...Kobe isn't the future of the Lakers.

Thats something you dont know, ofcourse he wouldnt lead them to a championship if he would have the same role players as Tracy McGrady has, with Kobe is the future for the Lakers I meant that for some good years, the Lakers got their superstar player and need to focus on talented players built around him. If they would end up with Shaq on the team and Kobe somewhere else, that means that they should realize that he wont keep up for a good quality of years, and when he stops the Lakers would end up with no star player on their team and need to start all over, while with Kobe you already have placed the first building block which can stay there for 7+ years, and need other players to fill the team up. Its much harder to start a new winning team from scratch then making one with already a star on the team.

Building around a guard isn't as easy as it sounds. Even MJ, the legendary guard had good big men up front.

Why is McGrady complaining? What does he want? A big man.

Thats something you dont know

That's why I said, "by the looks of it"...we're here to speculate & discuss, lots of stuff "we don't know", yet we discuss them.

Again, nicely said that the team should be built around Kobe, isn't that easy. You'll need a big man, a good one.