Challenge: Your All-Time Starting Five, for $15

[Andrew]

But I will argue Wilt is better and dominates his position even more.

Unless he has five fouls, or it's a really important game. Then he might as well be Dwayne Schintzius, according to those who played with and against him.

[NovU]

Never mind. Here's mine(revised from above). Again, mine bases that Wilt is a must have player. And the rule was to make the team exactly at $15, not a penny more or less.

(1)
PG: MAGIC johnson (5 dollar)
SG: MICHAEL Jordan (5 dollar)
SF: SCOTTIE pippen (1 dollar)
PF: KEVIN garnett (1 dollar)
C: WILT chamberlain (3 dollar)

(2)
Same as Above but
Wade($1) replaces MJ($5)
LBJ($5) replaces Pippen($1)

Compare these to your:

pg - Magic
sg - Jordan 5
sf - Pippen 1
pf - Duncan
c - Olajuwon

Pretty similar. But just different players at pf and c. What you guys think?

[Andrew]

Can't really go wrong there, either.

[Sauru]

pretty sure this is the best team you can make.

hmph, I disagree.

You guys base that MJ is the must-have player. But I will argue Wilt is better and dominates his position even more. And consider his $3 price tag, I will boldly go with Wilt over Jordan. There's a significant gap between Olajuwon and Wilt btw, and cost difference is only $2.

Pippen is a great deal at $1. But just for $2 more, you get Durant. Also Wade at $1 is a steal too and he probably is closer to #2 or 3 in SG list.

when building a team i always take into account how they team would play together. i understand most people just grab the top 5 guys and say thats the best team but not me. if you want me to give me 5 best players i will but if it asks for the best team then i will build an actual team


also i would take pippen over durant straight up

[Andrew]

Changing it up slightly...considering that a few of those players can play at least a couple of positions really well, what would your lineup be if you played a couple of them out of their primary position, still utilising the same dollar amounts?

A couple that come to mind:

G: Scottie Pippen ($1)
G: Michael Jordan ($5)
F: Larry Bird ($5)
F: Dirk Nowitzki ($2)
C: Shaquille O'Neal ($2)

G: Scottie Pippen ($1)
G: Michael Jordan ($5)
F: LeBron James ($5)
F: Dirk Nowitzki ($2)
C: Shaquille O'Neal ($2)

G: Dwyane Wade ($1)
G: Michael Jordan ($5)
F: Scottie Pippen ($1)
F: LeBron James ($5)
C: Tim Duncan ($3)

[NovU]

when building a team i always take into account how they team would play together. i understand most people just grab the top 5 guys and say thats the best team but not me. if you want me to give me 5 best players i will but if it asks for the best team then i will build an actual team

Fair point. That's also the reason why I prefer Jordan/Pippen combo over LBJ/Wade .

But my opinion was because Wilt could downright manhandle Olajuwon on both end of the floor. Hence the reason, I would include Wilt at nearly any cost(mere $2 over Olajuwon so it's no brainer anyhoo). He can be Shaq on offense or Bill Russell on defense. It just depends what task you ask for. Also neither Pippen nor Jordan was a great 3pt shooter like Dirk. So I opted to include Dirk in my first list because spacing is valued in modern basketball. Dirk could be the overlooked piece in the puzzle of the list because he can knock down .400% 3pt.

G: Scottie Pippen ($1)
G: Michael Jordan ($5)
F: Larry Bird ($5)
F: Dirk Nowitzki ($2)
C: Shaquille O'Neal ($2)

G: Scottie Pippen ($1)
G: Michael Jordan ($5)
F: LeBron James ($5)
F: Dirk Nowitzki ($2)
C: Shaquille O'Neal ($2)

G: Dwyane Wade ($1)
G: Michael Jordan ($5)
F: Scottie Pippen ($1)
F: LeBron James ($5)
C: Tim Duncan ($3)

Point guard-less teams. Honestly I am not sure how it would fare because none of them played much without pg in the line up much afaik. But I think the first team can do really well in modern era basketball because 3pt can be deadly with Dirk/Bird combo. 2nd team would be fun to watch too because of LBJ's versatility. 3rd team also is interesting, suits the small ball era really well.

This is a fun idea, allowing alt position. I will come up with one or two later maybe. But I'm still inclined to believe including one PG is nicer way to build.

[Andrew]

I'm not sure that Wilt would have completely dominated Olajuwon. After all, he admitted that had trouble with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar when he came along. I'm not suggesting Wilt would have been a scrub had he played a few decades later, but he didn't face the number of talented and athletic seven footers that would be in the league in the eras that followed him. Again, not suggesting he wouldn't be a star and an all-time great, but I'm not sure that his dominance would've been quite as pronounced, his numbers quite as gaudy. All the other centres on that list are great players in their own right.

[NovU]

AFIAK Wilt had 3 distinct periods - in his first he was putting up 35-50 ppg; in his second incarnation during the mid 60s philly 76ers run Wilt was a 20ppg scorer who was much more of a facilitator/defensive presence who in the words of a guy named Bill Russell: "is playing better than I used to -- passing off, coming out to set up screens, picking up guys outside, and sacrificing himself for team play" he played with multiple hall of famers, lead the league in assists and captained a team that set the record for most wins and then won a title. In his third incarnation he became a sub 20ppg player who focused on rebounding - he was never the same player post knee surgery. And this is time when Kareem came into league young. Wilt's career was closing in to an end by this time.

Wilt was bigger than Shaq(tho slightly) and more athletic. (Also to count setting big 8 track and field records or the fact that he dominated pro volleyball in his 40s) I'm just inclined to believe that gap between Wilt and rest of pack is larger than most people's perception, just as there's clear disparity between class of Kobe and MJ.

[Andrew]

I'm not trying to take anything away from Wilt - though no one is immune to criticism, and he had his shortcomings, the same as everyone else - but I also believe that Olajuwon is part of an elite group of bigs from his era that can hold their own against the players that came before and after them. It's not that Wilt wasn't great, it's that Olajuwon - and Kareem, and The Admiral, and Shaq, and a few others in that class - were great too.

[Sauru]

when building a team i always take into account how they team would play together. i understand most people just grab the top 5 guys and say thats the best team but not me. if you want me to give me 5 best players i will but if it asks for the best team then i will build an actual team

Fair point. That's also the reason why I prefer Jordan/Pippen combo over LBJ/Wade .

But my opinion was because Wilt could downright manhandle Olajuwon on both end of the floor. Hence the reason, I would include Wilt at nearly any cost(mere $2 over Olajuwon so it's no brainer anyhoo). He can be Shaq on offense or Bill Russell on defense. It just depends what task you ask for. Also neither Pippen nor Jordan was a great 3pt shooter like Dirk. So I opted to include Dirk in my first list because spacing is valued in modern basketball. Dirk could be the overlooked piece in the puzzle of the list because he can knock down .400% 3pt.

my original team actually had stockton,jordan,pippen,dirk,kareem. i felt this team was the best offensive team you can make but i ended up going with the better defensive team.

[[Q]]

You guys base that MJ is the must-have player

I agree. I think people have built up his legacy so much in their minds that he's basically a no-brainer pick for a lot of people. I've watched bulls games from 97-98 on nba tv and imo there's not much difference between Jordan and Kobe. Just personal preference really. I'd go magic, Kobe, pippen, Duncan, shaq. I was $1 short of getting LeBron

[Andrew]

Oh...gonna respectfully disagree there, Q.

That said, there is room for preference. With so many all-time greats and viable alpha dogs who've won championships on that list, and even the $5 lineup being a pretty damn good team, MJ isn't the only choice for a "must-pick" player.

[NovU]

LoL, Q. I just can't respect your opinion but each to own I guess.

even the $5 lineup being a pretty damn good team

You know wut's funny. $1 worth players team would beat $4 players team.

[Andrew]

I'm not sure about that. A lot of rings, a lot of talent on the $4 team.

[NovU]

In second thought, I think $4 team actually has advantage in 3 out of 5 positions.

[Sauru]

You guys base that MJ is the must-have player

I agree. I think people have built up his legacy so much in their minds that he's basically a no-brainer pick for a lot of people. I've watched bulls games from 97-98 on nba tv and imo there's not much difference between Jordan and Kobe. Just personal preference really. I'd go magic, Kobe, pippen, Duncan, shaq. I was $1 short of getting LeBron

you must not of watched a lot of games then

[Andrew]

There is a certain narrative about Michael Jordan that some people do fanboyishly cling to, but that doesn't mean a lot of the things that are said about him aren't valid points.

Also, new lineup:

G: Magic Johnson ($5)
G: Michael Jordan ($5)
F: Larry Bird ($4)
F: Kevin Garnett ($1)
C: Brad Lohaus ($0)

[Sauru]

hey when jordan loses in the finals maybe i will stop always making him my first pick for all time teams

[NovU]

People remember only the skill set. That's why in their mind Kobe's equal to Jordan and not Wade. A lot of those same people are the ones that make wild claims like Hakeem's the best center ever. Problem is they can't think beyond the skill set. Efficiency is always overlooked.

Second overrated factor is the # of trophies which in most cases are bias. Championship is team achievement. MVP, DPOY, junks like these are mostly popularity contest and advertisement for the league. But a lot of people like to put too much weight into these junks.

[Andrew]

Skillset, championships, and individual awards aren't completely irrelevant, either. Similarly, efficiency isn't necessarily the be-all, end-all factor, though for what it's worth, Hakeem's still up there on the career PER leaders.

[NovU]

They are relevant but excessively relevant in most cases.

Just as Kobe, Hakeem also gets overrated often because of rings and skillset. I find it ridiculous just as some of you find Kobe MJ comparison ridiculous.

[Andrew]

Well, pretty much anyone can be overrated or underrated, I suppose. I don't know that Hakeem is widely overrated; a fairly common cry is that he only won championships because of MJ's retirement in the mid 90s, which is selling him a bit short. After all, he was a great player, one of the best centres of all-time. The best, though? I don't know about declaring that definitively, and I would probably take someone else ahead of him in that debate. But he's no slouch, no weak link as a $1 option.

[kevC]

Is Chris Paul free?

Paul - $0
Jordan - $5
James - $5
Dirk (for spacing) - $2
Olajuwon - $1

$2 left for hot dogs.

[Andrew]

Yeah, the point guard list could be better. Chris Paul, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, and Gary Payton are all snubs there. I'd put two of them on the list over Thomas and Frazier.

[Sauru]

isiah thomas still mad that people now see how overrated he was and how underrated pippen was