Mavs trade for Walker

by **ThisizaJackMove** on Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:52 am

Bombs Away for Dallas

Funny. They still aren't better than the Lakers(w/Kobe), Sac-Town or San Antonio, and I think Minnesota would give them a run for there money.

Boston's destroyed any chance of a playoff run they had. However they get Dallas pick which will probably be in the 20's and there own pick which should be lottery. However, I expect Pierce to average 30.

by **wangster** on Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:01 am

I stil don't understand this trade, but in the order of packed-ness, the NBA would look like this...

1. Dallas
2. Minnesota
3. Los Angeles (not Clippers)

I guess Minnesota and Lakers are interchangeable but Dallas has undoubtedly become the most packed team in the league with this trade. But I just can't see any starting line-up for them that would be satisfactory. Since Dallas is my second favourite team, I really hope this will work out for them, but.... thinking about how they're going to incorporate all their firepower (with no real starting center) is making my head spin....

by **Jackal** on Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:12 am

I think another trade is on it's way, but I'm not sure...time will tell I suppose.

YouTube · by **Andrew** on Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:48 am

Dallas obviously got the better end of the deal, but I don't think it was the right deal to make. Needless to say they won't all score as much as they would like - even the 1983/84 Denver Nuggets (who scored 123.7 ppg) only featured two players who averaged over 20 ppg, and only four players on that team averaged double figures in scoring.

Tony Delk is an adequate replacement for Nick the Quick. He's not as good as Van Exel, but he should be able to play a similar role with decent results. Walker is probably going to average similar stats to LaFrentz, perhaps scoring a few more points per contest. Again, the Mavs got the better end of the deal, but didn't necessarily get that much better.

Boston can put LaFrentz to good use and Chris Mills isn't a bad guy to have coming off the bench - when he's healthy. Welsch is essentially in there to meet cap requirements in the trade and the 2004 pick may or may not be anything special. Still, I picked Boston to finish fourth or fifth in the East, and they can still do that with this team.

Overall, it's a strange trade for both teams to make. The Mavericks didn't need Walker, the Celtics didn't necessarily need to trade him. Seems like it was "Get Walker out of town, by any means necessary", rather than "Get rid of Walker, but get someone who can play the same role just as well, or better".

by **wangster** on Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:02 pm

What if the Mavs decided to play with shifts? Can you imagine that?

1st line: Fortson, Nowitzki, Jamison, Delk, Nash
2nd line: Bradley, Walker/Najera, Najera/Walker, Finley, Best

Don't you think that might actually be a good idea? If these were separate teams, I'm pretty sure they can go deep in the east. So with two of them in one package, they just might be able to conquer the west (which is the same thing as conquering the whole league)

Food for thought?.... no?

by **Old School Fool** on Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:07 pm

I thought this was a DUMB Trade it made the Mavs Stronger :lol:

by **Matt** on Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:34 pm

If there isn't another trade in line for the Mavs then this trade was pretty stupid

a lineup of
C Dirk
PF Walker
SF Jamison
SG Finley
PG Nash

would work against VERY FEW teams............against teams that count that lineup would not hold up
take for example the Lakers........Shaq and Malone would have their way with Dirk and Walker and if the Mavs wanna win they'll have to go through the Lakers
Mavs can shoot all they want but if they don't have their shots fallin then they have no one to rebound really, Fortson can do that but if he's on the court that means they have a small lineup and are susceptible on defense
Despite this trade adding another All-star the Mavs shouldn't be mentioned with the Lakers yet.........Lakers have offence & defence, pretty much everyone on the Lakers starting lineup can play both ends of the court.........Mavs have offence and very little D

by **bballer22** on Tue Oct 21, 2003 6:51 pm

i think what they are doing is getting players that they know can step up at any time if some other players will have a bad game. Cuban wants to make sure that is any1 of them get injured there will be an equal there to back him up, something that happend this year at the playoffs,
with Boston i think they are doing the T-Mac thing, wehre Paul will get all the shots he wants and avr, 30 ppg!
Cuban if using a stratagy of best D is O, and he has plenty of O and D off the bench.

by **Dramacydal** on Tue Oct 21, 2003 8:44 pm

i think the mavs should try 2 trade walker 4 a decent center...otherwise theyll be the softest team in the league without any good inside scorers...stupid trade

by **Matt** on Tue Oct 21, 2003 9:11 pm

well Walker is a good inside scorer but trouble is getting him inside, he just loves the 3pnt line so much

by **Shep** on Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:09 pm

scubilete wrote:Yeah, Dirk can play C, Dirk can play PG as well, even SG. Nobody is saying he can't. But do you want him facing Shaq, Yao, etc? or can he guard them effectively?, NO. So I still believe they will have to sit someone there.

do you want shaq facing dirk? what are the lakers going to do when they face dallas? by your logic they should start somebody like danny fortson just because he's the biggest they've got. but how is shaq going to guard nowitzki on the other end?

by **Stevan** on Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:43 pm

do you want shaq facing dirk? what are the lakers going to do when they face dallas? by your logic they should start somebody like danny fortson just because he's the biggest they've got. but how is shaq going to guard nowitzki on the other end?

I would still give the advantage to Shaq, simply because Dirk has to shoot jumpers from deep to beat Shaq, while Shaq can score on him down low, probably quite easily.

The Lakers may also drop into a zone, and encourage the Mavs to shoot the long ball. If there is any daylight, Antoine Walker is going to fire away...

Long balls = long rebounds, and since the Mavs 'Ehloesque' defense sucks in the half court game, it probably isn't much better transition wise (though I'm assuming).

The Mavs are going to be a great team, tough to beat when "on", but they are still a step behind the best in the league, and still will be beaten by teams with less depth.

Mark Cuban was supposed to be this die hard Mavs/Basketball fan, but I'm starting to believe that he's interested more so in entertainment then championships. I'm sure he (believes that he) wants to win, but his actions speak for themselves. Defence wins championships.

This is going to be a hell of a season for the NBA!! (y)

by **scubilete** on Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:56 am

Shep wrote:what are the lakers going to do when they face dallas?

Play & win, easy. Dallas just got a bunch of shooters & now weakest than ever in the post.

Shep wrote:do you want shaq facing dirk?

Shaq is the most dominant player in the whole league, did you realize that?, I don't think he needs to do much to stop Nowitzki, knowing Dirk is not a post up player. So, I obviously don't think Shaq would guard any thin guy who shoots a bunch of 3s but if he tries to come to Shaq zone, Dirk would be smacked down.

Shep wrote:by your logic they should start somebody like danny fortson just because he's the biggest they've got.

By your logic, they should start Walker who doesn't rebound & just love shooting from behind the arc, so they never get a freaking rebound & that way becoming the weakest duo of all the top teams. :roll:

Shep wrote:but how is shaq going to guard nowitzki on the other end?

Hands up, Nowitzki doesn't have the body to face Shaq. Go there & shoot a 3 that's all he can do, Lakers have Malone to take the rebs & the same Shaq now that you don't have anyone in Dallas to even try to do the job if you keep thinking in using Walker there. :roll:

Stevan wrote:I would still give the advantage to Shaq, simply because Dirk has to shoot jumpers from deep to beat Shaq, while Shaq can score on him down low, probably quite easily.

The Lakers may also drop into a zone, and encourage the Mavs to shoot the long ball. If there is any daylight, Antoine Walker is going to fire away

I wonder if people think Dirk plays in the east to make it look like he can handle the job for just being a 7 footer, not wondering that would be the weakest front line against other teams. 2 guys who just love shooting 3s playing C & PF, that would be funny to watch.

by **paul_pierce_the_truth** on Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:59 am

Boston can put LaFrentz to good use and Chris Mills isn't a bad guy to have coming off the bench - when he's healthy. Welsch is essentially in there to meet cap requirements in the trade and the 2004 pick may or may not be anything special. Still, I picked Boston to finish fourth or fifth in the East, and they can still do that with this team.

No big deal, but Chris Mills was the cap space filler, not Jiri Welsch.

An often injuried player such as Mills, who also is in the last year of his contract ($6m) is usually the cap filler, not an up in coming 23-year-old second year player. I believe Boston really wanted Welsch to complete the deal. I believe the 15 player roster will kill LaRue, but I'd rather Boston buyout Mills and sign either LaRue or someone better.

by **JdotK** on Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:10 am

At first I was shocked... but its a good trade.

Walker wasnt going to resign with the Celtics... they wernt going to give him a max contract. And we wernt going to win #17 this year with him here, so why not trade and get something for him. Now we get a decent Center who is expected to put up 15 and 8, which would be All Star numbers for Centers in the East. We get Welsch who could end up being good, we get more playing time for Banks, we will get 7mil to sign a good player next year (when Mills is no longer on the team) and we get another mid 20's draft pick where we can pick up a Good High School prospect like we did this year with Perkins or a Euro player, since they often slip down to the late 1st round, early second.

by **Old School Fool** on Wed Oct 22, 2003 5:50 am

Chris Mills is a POPULAR Player in my book.....Because he was on the Cleveland Cavaliers in NBA JAM T.E. for SNES

Pass to Price Pass To Mills......>SLAMS IT! :lol:

by **air gordon** on Wed Oct 22, 2003 7:12 am

i don't know what's all the big hoopla for. it's no major secret dallas has a somali-like frontline, but they were still one of the league's best teams last year. why wouldn't it be different this upcoming season? they've gained more then they have lost.

on defense, lafrentz provided some blocks along with a bunch of fouls. he was one of the league leaders in fouls per 48min. on offense, he was a 3pt shooting big man with no post game. most of his points in the paint came off of picknrolls or putbacks

in walker, they gain a decent defender who can guard multiple positions and a better rebounder. he does jack up a lot of 3's on 'o', but he has shown he is a capable scorer in the post when he decides to play there. also he's a much better passer/ball handler then lafrentz can ever dream of being.

losing 6 fouls to throw at shaq or whoever won't be a damaging blow to the mavs.

now to the part where i disagree (this most likely will turn into a dumb argument or a flame war)

Dallas just got a bunch of shooters & now weakest than ever in the post.

i disagree. defensively, they may have gotten 'shorter'. but jamison & walker (factor in fortson when healthy) are better defenders and rebounders then lafrentz. offensively, as mentioned ealier, walker is a capable scorer in the post when he decides to play there, something lafrentz never was. also jamison is decent as well and will present mismatches if teams put sf's on him. even dirk showed a willingness to post up smaller defenders

Shaq is the most dominant player in the whole league, did you realize that?, I don't think he needs to do much to stop Nowitzki, knowing Dirk is not a post up player. So, I obviously don't think Shaq would guard any thin guy who shoots a bunch of 3s but if he tries to come to Shaq zone, Dirk would be smacked down.

i don't doubt shaq's dominance. but if shaq were to guard dirk, dirk wouldn't have to do much either himself. occasionally take him off the dribble but mostly just hit a few jumpers to keep the big guy out lane, opening up things for every one else.

By your logic, they should start Walker who doesn't rebound & just love shooting from behind the arc, so they never get a freaking rebound & that way becoming the weakest duo of all the top teams.

walker isn't averaging 8.7 rpg by accident. dirk and jamison are pretty decent also

as for this zone defense talk, it can easily be argued the other way.

by **MAKAVELI THE DON** on Wed Oct 22, 2003 8:15 am

Wow this is unbelieveable, I don't even know what to say! It was just earlier I was watching some Sportscenter, then I look at the bottom of the screen, and see "Celtics trade Antoine Walker and Tony Delk to the Mavericks, for Raef La Frentz, Chris Mills, Jiri Welsh, and future 1st round draft pick".

When I saw that, my mouth opened wide, and I almost peed my pants! I'm serious too, it's no joke; I had to run go to the bathroom and take a piss immediately, I was shocked!

How the Dallas Mavericks pulled this trade off it's beyond me? I personally think the Celtics, have no gone from a team contesting for the East, and the playoffs; to a rebuilding team made up of young players and an All star in Paul Pierce! I feel this trade is good, both for Jamison and Walker! Jamison can finally play on a winning team, and get playtime on national tv, for fans to see, and earn a name for himself; (not that he isn't already and all star quality player).

As for Walker, I feel playing with the Mavericks is going to Walker a much better player than he is; offensively anyway! Statistically, Walker's number will go down a bit; he'll put up between 14-17 Points. Which wouldn't be bad seeing the type of team he's on and the players he's playing with. But because of the Mavs style of play; Antonie Walker's is going to be a much more dangerous 3Point shooter because he'll be getting alot more open looks than he did with the Boston!

Talk about 3Point weapons; Dirk, Nash, Finley, Delk, Walker, Jamison (sometimes), & Travis Best (when he's playing well)!

The Lakers, Wolves, and Spurs aren't going to be the only ones to look out for this season! And someone in an earlier post said, they didn't know if to cry, or to laugh for the NBA? Hey, I totally agree! But if I had a choice, I guess I would cry; because which NBA coach would want to play "D" against that line-up?

by **Vins15** on Wed Oct 22, 2003 11:50 am

actually putting Dirk on offense against Shaq the Mavs might have an advantage...Dirk can take Shaq outside while the players can attack inside...espically if Kobe's gone Finely will probably get the most chance to score and if Shaq is in the paint while Finley is driving and Nowitzki is outside Nowitzki could simply hit the three pointer

by **Shep** on Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:10 pm

scubilete wrote:Shaq is the most dominant player in the whole league

tim duncan is

scubilete wrote:I don't think he needs to do much to stop Nowitzki, knowing Dirk is not a post up player.

the second part of that sentence killed the first. shaq has a harder time guarding non post up players that post up players (if you've ever watched an nba game with shaq involved in your life), and therefore nowitzki will dominate shaq and/or get him in foul trouble with his quickness.

scubilete wrote:Dirk would be smacked down

yeh, then shaq would get a foul, dirk to the line, 2 points, dallas wins

MAKAVELI THE DON wrote:and I almost peed my pants! I'm serious too, it's no joke; I had to run go to the bathroom and take a piss immediately, I was shocked!

by **ThisizaJackMove** on Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:41 pm

Vins15 wrote:actually putting Dirk on offense against Shaq the Mavs might have an advantage...Dirk can take Shaq outside while the players can attack inside...espically if Kobe's gone Finely will probably get the most chance to score and if Shaq is in the paint while Finley is driving and Nowitzki is outside Nowitzki could simply hit the three pointer

They also have some guy named Karl Malone who is also kind of intimidating

by **Vins15** on Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:59 pm

ThisIzAJackMove wrote:
Vins15 wrote:actually putting Dirk on offense against Shaq the Mavs might have an advantage...Dirk can take Shaq outside while the players can attack inside...espically if Kobe's gone Finely will probably get the most chance to score and if Shaq is in the paint while Finley is driving and Nowitzki is outside Nowitzki could simply hit the three pointer

They also have some guy named Karl Malone who is also kind of intimidating

the problem is now Walker and Jamision are pretty good shooters as well so they'll have chances to lure Malone outside...so there is not much defense in the paint...and without Kobe's D Finley could attack the basket easier...

by **Swoosh** on Wed Oct 22, 2003 6:56 pm

Makaveli! Nice to see u post again here

! Long time!
Though at first i wasnt too enthousiastic, i'm starting more and more to believe the Mavs actually have a chance, think about it, if every guy can score or light up at any moment(not to mention all of those guys could light up at the same time), now lets say the lakers wouldnt know who to double team, they just wouldnt know cuz every guy can make shots, that's a huge problem if u go against them, 'toine said he is willing to sacrifice some of his scoring, IF he does this and IF he sets his mind on rebounding and playing defense, the mavs will be very hard to beat.
As was said here above, everyone is makin' a fuss about it, but it was the same last year, all offense and no defense and they still managed to win 60, while everybody didn't believe they could pull it off, pretty impressive imo

by **elwudl** on Wed Oct 22, 2003 8:08 pm

After all you must say Marc Cuban is a trading-'champ'. See what he got for mediocre players, inspite of Van Exel, of course. Jamison, Walker, all this guys have allstar-potential and if they are healthy they have so much offensive weapons...unbelievable. And if 1 is injured it is no problem too. Look at the Lakers if they loose Shaq or Kobe due to an injury, or the T-Wolves loose Garnett...

by **Matt** on Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:07 pm

I'm pretty sure that Payton could handle Finley if Kobes not available..........but then again Fox and George are pretty good defenders

Even if Dallas can force Shaq and Malone outside that doesn't achieve much, no one in Dallas plays in the post
Lakers on the other hand can play 4 guys on the perimeter (given Malones good shooting ability) and have Shaq down low by himself........and the Lakers have enough good 3 point shooters on the team to make Dallas pay

1 more point i would like to make..........i may come under fire for this but it's just an observation
Malone, Payton, Kobe and Shaq are more consistent group than the Mavs 5, in particular Walker who has many erratic shooting nights and plays poor defense most of the time

Besides, Lakers have 2 of the most dominant players at their positions Kobe (arguable but let's not get into it) and Shaq. Theres not a single player on the Mavs that could stop either let alone having Payton and Malone in the mix

Mavs trade for Walker

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