If this is true, say goodbye to Kobe Bryant..

yes shane, true, but nobody noticed them till a week later, which is enough time to make the injuries manually.

As Shane said, they can usually tell when injuries are self-inflicted. Consider that bruises do not always show up straight away, and some injuries are not apparent until further examination.

and to almost every single one of your arguments............you dont KNOW who the girl is either. you wouldnt know if shes a compulsive liar or has psychotic episodes.

That's true, we don't. And we don't know how Kobe behaves away from the cameras either. As I said in the summation thread, we should heed the advice of the article in PBT and believe everyone.

and dont bring up theres never been any records of it, coz then kobes clean record can be used

If there's substantial evidence that Kobe raped her, then his clean record will be meaningless.

and her statement still is very unbeleiveable, if anyone truly can believe that to heart, then they really must hate Kobe....................or be racist.

That's the kind of conclusion that Shane and I are referring to. Again, if you don't think Kobe is a wonderful person who could never commit a crime, you're a hater. Does the hater debate ever end?

Consider you are taking the opposite stance, that none of these allegations are true. You are instantly dismissing the claim and asking us to do the same, else we're haters or worse, racists. The race card should not be played. Race has nothing to do with this case. I do not mean any offense, but if Kobe's lawyers try to make race an issue, then it's a real cop out. Dismissing any claim against a person on the basis that it's an act of racial discrimination is wrong.

You say that her claim is unbelievable. However, the law does not see it that way. The law sees enough evidence to make an issue out of it. And again: Kobe admitted to having sex with her. He admitted committing adultery. He concedes that he had sexual intercourse with the alleged victim. Kobe is not stupid, he would not admit to something he didn't do. One more time: Kobe committed adultery, he had sex with her. That part of the story at least is true.

And in light of that fact, saying that it wasn't consensual is not an absurd claim. Consider the possibility that the allegations are true. Consider that not only do we not know the girl, but we don't know Kobe either. We know his persona, but we don't know the person. We can't know for sure whether he's different behind closed doors. We don't know if he has some negative habits or not. One thing's for certain though. He's human like the rest of us, and that means he isn't perfect. He's just as capable of doing something bad as the rest of us.

That's the kind of conclusion that Shane and I are referring to. Again, if you don't think Kobe is a wonderful person who could never commit a crime, you're a hater. Does the hater debate ever end?

sorry andrew, but i never said if you think kobes guilty your a hater. i said if you beleive that outragous pathetic statement.

yes kobe did have intercourse with this girl, but that is a more of a reason for her to self inflict injuries. and it doesnt take a week for a bruise to show!.

My reason for that being a more of a reason is cause she may have regretted it, and Kobe may have disrespected her in another way, so therefore she makes this up to get back. you never know, it is all possible.

Of course it's possible. But Kobe being guilty is a possibility too. And just because Kobe is not guilty does not mean the girl is a gold digger either.

Consider you are taking the opposite stance, that none of these allegations are true. You are instantly dismissing the claim and asking us to do the same, else we're haters or worse, racists. The race card should not be played. Race has nothing to do with this case. I do not mean any offense, but if Kobe's lawyers try to make race an issue, then it's a real cop out. Dismissing any claim against a person on the basis that it's an act of racial discrimination is wrong.

yes Race can be used as an issue. Coz as i have read, Bigatry is very common in courts of Colorado. It was in a ESPN article, so yes it is an issue, and coz the Victim is white, a white girl, then it is gonna make it very interesting.

Sure, bigotry exists. Sure, race can be an issue. But is every case involving people of different race built upon racial prejudice? Are you suggesting that the DNA evidence has been fabricated so that the law can punish an innocent black man? And are you suggesting the charges should be dismissed as racism and no further action be taken?

Most importantly, would race be an issue if this black man wasn't a famous basketball player?

Of course it's possible. But Kobe being guilty is a possibility too. And just because Kobe is not guilty does not mean the girl is a gold digger either.

yes it is, but im saying i cant see him being guilty.

becuase to me it doesnt all add up.
the week for the injuries to be recognise, the pitiful statement, even OD.

can you see where im coming from?

yes it is, but im saying i cant see him being guilty.

Honestly, can you see Kobe committing adultery? I'm guessing you would say no right? Well, so now he admits to doing it; you believe it? So now you say, "I can't see him being guilty." That is just the same thing in terms of you think he can do nothing wrong. That is just total BS, ANYONE can commit a crime. So sit back and wait for the trial to start and see whether he is guilty or not.

Travis

Let's not confuse capable and likely. Is Kobe likely to have committed rape? I would say no, it doesn't fit his character. But is he capable? He's physically capable of committing that crime. He's capable of sexual intercourse and he's no doubt stronger than the alleged victim. He's definitely capable of committing the act of rape, though it would be out of character for him to do so.

I sure hope this wasn't a message to me!

Of course not! I actually enjoy having discussions with you because you don't assume that I'm wrong or a hater or disagreeing just to disagree or whatever... that was to the 'Kobe's innocent because he's my favorite player and the Lakers will win the next two titles!' people...

yes shane, true, but nobody noticed them till a week later, which is enough time to make the injuries manually.

The one guy who talked to the press didn't notice them till a week later. And, like I've already said many times, doctors and medical examiners can tell if injuries are self-inflicted.

and to almost every single one of your arguments............you dont KNOW who the girl is either. you wouldnt know if shes a compulsive liar or has psychotic episodes.
and dont bring up theres never been any records of it, coz then kobes clean record can be used

Like Andrew said...Kobe's clean record (if it is in fact truly clean) won't matter if he's found guilty of rape. It might help in sentencing, but other than that, it won't play any part in a trial. The only reason her attempted overdose is mentioned is for her credibility....but that doesn't really matter because a crack-head can still be raped and it can still be proven in a court of law.

and her statement still is very unbeleiveable, if anyone truly can believe that to heart, then they really must hate Kobe....................or be racist.

In my opinion, if Kobe's lawyers play the race card, he's guilty. If there's no other defense than that, he's no better than OJ.

sorry andrew, but i never said if you think kobes guilty your a hater. i said if you beleive that outragous pathetic statement.

Ohh, so anyone who thinks Kobe's guilty is just stupid, but not a hater?

yes kobe did have intercourse with this girl, but that is a more of a reason for her to self inflict injuries. and it doesnt take a week for a bruise to show!.

You obviously don't know much about the human body. Internal injuries sustained from rape may not show up for several days; also, bruises don't show right away because of their nature....ever had a black eye? They don't show up for a day or two. Also, like I said, the guy who talked to the press - second hand information - said he saw the injuries when he saw her a week later. He didn't see the woman right after the incident, but HE saw her a week later. The odds are that the injuries are the evidence that the DA is talking about and why he charged Kobe Bryant with rape. Also, for the last time, IT CAN BE DETERMINED WHETHER OR NOT INJURIES ARE SELF-INFLICTED.

My reason for that being a more of a reason is cause she may have regretted it, and Kobe may have disrespected her in another way, so therefore she makes this up to get back. you never know, it is all possible.

Yes, anything's possible...but you're thinking up every excuse possible as to why Kobe's innocent as opposed to looking at both sides of the case. You're not using logical thought when talking about the injuries or even the fact that he was charged. Yes, you're a fan, but if you're going to discuss such a thing with other people it would probably be a good idea to open your mind to the fact that Kobe Bryant MIGHT have raped this woman. You can still support him and hope he's innocent, but to bash the alleged woman who was RAPED (I keep coming back to this and you keep dismissing it) is just morally and ethically wrong. She supposedly had the most intimate thing taken out of her control, and you're saying she's lying even when it's said there's physical evidence and that he's charged with a crime by a distric attourney, which means they think that they can prove without reasonable doubt that Kobe raped her.

With that being said, support Kobe, provide arguments, but don't say things like 'she hurt herself to screw over kobe' when that can easily be thrown out by an examination by Kobe's lawyers' doctors. If they are self-inflicted, then that will be that and Kobe will probably get off, but the odds are that they aren't....and you have to accept that.

yes Race can be used as an issue. Coz as i have read, Bigatry is very common in courts of Colorado. It was in a ESPN article, so yes it is an issue, and coz the Victim is white, a white girl, then it is gonna make it very interesting.

What about bigotry in the other 49 states? You could play the race card if the charges were in Los Angelos or Atlanta...it wouldn't matter. Bigotry is a part of American society....It was in an ESPN article? Since when is ESPN an expert on the courts in Colorado? ESPN is a good source for sports, but for things like racism in a court system...that's more along the lines of CNN, and I'd take even that with a grain of salt as it can't really be proven if a court case is racist. That's also why defendant's lawyers have a part in the jury selection process....there will be blacks on the jury, and probably more men than women...I can garuntee it. Of course, it's going to be hard for Kobe to get a totally fair trial because it'll be nearly impossible to find a person who hasn't heard about this case.

yes it is, but im saying i cant see him being guilty.

becuase to me it doesnt all add up.
the week for the injuries to be recognise, the pitiful statement, even OD.

can you see where im coming from?

I can see where you're coming from, but here's a recap...

1. Already talked about the injuries

2. Pitiful statement? Not really. Ever heard of someone just snapping and killing a bunch of people in a post office? No one saw those coming, yet they happened. People DO snap, and there's many instances where this happen...wasn't that Jason Kidd's defense on hitting his wife?

3. The OD was in the past, and it's not like she OD'd and came out of it and decided "I think I'm going to fuck Kobe Bryant and then ruin his life"....what bearing does her OD have on the case besides her credibility? Her emotional stability? If anything, a psychiatrist can probably prove she's more distraught after the supposed rape than she was after the suicide attempt. It may actually HELP her cause if her emotional state of mind has detoriated significantly in just a couple of months.

Edit: I meant that there's no way she would know she'd be the receptionist at the hotel Kobe Bryant would stay at months later

Just a question. What is adultery exactly?
if its another term for cheating, well then lock me up and throw away the key
if not, then can someone please clarify the real meaning of it.

Well at least this proves one thing..........................After years of being called a gold-digger, Vanessa can finally say fuck you to the rest of the world. If she was, she would've hit Kobe for all hes got when he admmitted to adultery.

But really we have no say about the case LOL.
cause not one of us has seen the pictures of physical evidence.
Which means we have no proof either way of what we are saying.

Adultery is cheating, yes, but it's different because of the whole marriage thing....it's breaking a contract, so it's 'illegal' (in a civil way).

Well at least this proves one thing..........................After years of being called a gold-digger, Vanessa can finally say fuck you to the rest of the world. If she was, she would've hit Kobe for all hes got when he admmitted to adultery.

Depends. She'd probably get more money if she stuck around. But I don't think we should make that assessment about any NBA players' wives as we don't know them personally.

can some1 explain if kobe belives that the sex was consentual then y whould he surrender to the police??

Because it would be foolish not to co-operate with the police. Guilty or innocent, there's a certain protocol that must be followed.

yeh but if the whole time he though it was consential y call the poilice??? if the girls later accused him of it then the police would have came to pick him up??!!

that woman only wants his money nothing else.

yeh but if the whole time he though it was consential y call the poilice??? if the girls later accused him of it then the police would have came to pick him up??!!

he went to the police after she accused him and posted a $25,000 bond remember?

how does that work?? he has sex with her while thinking it was consential, then she accuses him, then he goes to poilce??? if a woman acuused a man of rape then police come and take him away!!
what...after sex she said u raped me?? go to police???!!!

that woman only wants his money nothing else.

the 19 yr old woman isnt suing him. Its State of Colorado vs Kobe Bryant

Last edited by . on Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

yeh but if the whole time he though it was consential y call the poilice??? if the girls later accused him of it then the police would have came to pick him up??!!

At which point Kobe surrendered, was taken to the station, posted bond and left.

how does that work?? he has sex with her while thinking it was consential, then she accuses him, then he goes to poilce??? if a woman acuused a man of rape then police come and take him away!!
what...after sex she said u raped me?? go to police???!!!

He didn't just stroll down to the station. He complied with police officers when they came to arrest him.

that woman only wants his money nothing else.

As Kobe4mvp said, she's not suing him. It's a civil action, meaning a criminal charge has been brought against Kobe. This wouldn't be going to trial if there was no evidence that suggested Kobe might have committed a crime. The alleged victim won't get any money unless she sues after the criminal trial (in the event that Kobe is found guilty).

whether she wins or loses this case shes going 2 collect money. If he is guilty shes automatically wins the civil suit. then the money is garunteed and lots of it, but if she loses she can still make it a civil trial.

Technically speaking she can't lose the criminal trial, since she's the alleged victim, not the plaintiff. And if Kobe is found not guilty, I doubt she'd file a civil suit - what chance would she have of winning?

As Kobe4mvp said, she's not suing him. It's a civil action, meaning a criminal charge has been brought against Kobe.

No, a civil action would be a private lawsuit perpetuated by the victim.

The alleged victim won't get any money unless she sues after the criminal trial (in the event that Kobe is found guilty).

Yes, though she can still exercise her right to sue even if Kobe is found not guilty.

And if Kobe is found not guilty, I doubt she'd file a civil suit - what chance would she have of winning?

Looking at the situation empirically, I think she'd have more than a fighting chance. After all, O.J. Simpson was aquitted in his criminal trial, but was forced to pay nearly $33 million in civil suit damages.

No, a civil action would be a private lawsuit perpetuated by the victim.

Oops, I mean it's not a civil action. I should really proof read more often. I do know what a civil action is, I have explained the difference in other posts. That was a careless mistake.

Yes, though she can still exercise her right to sue even if Kobe is found not guilty.

She can, but it probably wouldn't do much good.

Looking at the situation empirically, I think she'd have more than a fighting chance. After all, O.J. Simpson was aquitted in his criminal trial, but was forced to pay nearly $33 million in civil suit damages.

True, but I think if Kobe is not found guilty, she'll have a tough time winning a civil action.

I do know what a civil action is, I have explained the difference in other posts.

Yeah, that's why I was a little confused.

True, but I think if Kobe is not found guilty, she'll have a tough time winning a civil action.

It would seem so, but I wouldn't bet the farm against her. And of course, this remains a conditional scenario, assuming a) Kobe's acquitted, and b) Faber, as a consequence, decides she'll still file a lawsuit.