See this is why I don't like Laker fans..

To quote Lee Flowers(of Pittsberg Steelers fames): " They're paper champions!! And that's all they'll ever be , paper champions!!"

My prediction... Rodman and Pippen and Jordan(out of retirement AGAIN and desperately seeking another paycheck) sign with the Spurs(to piss Phil off). In game 2 of the Western Conf. Semis, Rodman pisses off Shaq and Malone so much, both throw punches(which connect to rodman's grill) knocking him into a coma. Shaq and Malone are suspended for the rest of the playoffs, and with Kobe safely serving time(don't drop the soap prettyboy), Payton and the Laker-Ettes(fisher Fox D George and the rest) are swept by the Spurs. Timmy D averages a quardruple double in the Finals, making Mourning Mutumbo and Martin look like his personal jock straps. The Nets are labeled the Buffalo Bills of 2004, and the big three win another championship!!

What are you smoking?? Whatever it is I think Rubin wants some.....

So, if the Nets get a logo & advertisement saying they are the next champs, would you hate them?

Why would the Nets or any other NBA team do that like say, on their official site? I don't see that ever happening. A fan or fans of an NBA team would however. In this case, this picture made from a Laker fan. So yeah, I would dislike ANY fan for doing something such as this no matter what team it is. It just happens to be the Lakers, and no I didn't just base this on just one person/fan. I based it upon the MAJORITY of Laker fans that are just cocky, and arrogant to the max. I mean I wouldn't have said anything if this "fan" didn't go out and made the banner saying that they're (Lakers) are going to win next year.

A FAN, not all fans have said that they will be the 2004 champs

Yeah I said "a fan," because only one person could've made the banner and sent it out to all the other Laker fans. Can't really see two or three fans make the same exact banner and send it out right? Anyway..like I said, I based this on the MAJORITY of Laker fans not just one. Just their actions and the way they talk/comment on things don't go well with other fans that are not a fan of the Lakers. Just take a look at ESPN's Laker's message board and you'll know what I'm talking about. So it's not just me that don't like them. Not just the many posters here that don't like them. It's also the majority of the people that watches the NBA. Go there and you'll find lots of opinions and what people think about your "beloved Lakers."

Anywho...not all Laker fans are the same, and proclaim the championship is won....no one can do that...

The majority of them are..

what if Malone breaks a hip in the shower with Stockton and can never play again ( god forbid ) or Payton just breaks an ankle....

Yes, anything can happen during the season; especially injuries. BUT, when the Lakers don't win the title this upcoming year. I guarantee you the majority of Laker fans WILL come up with excuses. This happened, that happened. It's all too much of a familiar site to me don't you think?

But not liking all Laker fans for that ONE picture...absurd...

Well hopefully once you get the chance to read what I said above about the majority of them, you will understand.

Travis, It's a no win situation. If they win they will talk shit, if they lose they will make excuses. “too old, big toe, no chemistry"............... whatever they can find.

Exactly, point taken

The Lakers will have a great regular season, but when the playoffs get here the Lakers will have so much pressure to produce a Championship, that they better do it! If not it will be hard to find excuses.

Well, there sure is a big road block for them now huh? Think the Lakers should be worried more for Kobe and not the Championship. Cuz it wouldn't be a cakewalk for them if Kobe isn't around to play it out, lol. Anyway, I'm sure there will be lots of excuses coming our way when they don't bring home the title.

Well since the reason for the Avatar is to bother folks, i decided to give it a try. If you look real close, you can see the 110-82 ass wooping!

Hahaha! Good one there David Brings back a lot of GOOD memories doesn't it?

I bet you if Malone & Payton had decided to sign with the Spurs, you guys would've made a big hoopla about it because that would minimise the chances on LA winnning the Championship, why the hypocrisy now that they've signed with LA? What's the big deal?

The big deal is, they got those players by signing them to "cheap deals" that's what. The got the players they want by having them take huge paycuts. Just ask Brian Shaw, Robert Horry (maybe..), Rick Fox (not sure on him but maybe as well..), and now Payton and Malone. You say if they had signed with the Spurs, it would've been a lot different? Well I can bet you one thing, Payton and Malone's contracts wouldn't have been for only $6 mill. Same goes for Kidd and Jermaine O'Neal if they would've signed with San Antonio. That is the difference man.

Why dont you just hold the comments/predictions about Spurs goin 18 - 1 in the playoffs

I may be wrong so correct me, but the last time I checked. The playoffs consist of 4 7-game series, and if a team is gonna lose only once. That would mean 3 sweeps, a series won (4 games), and a lost right? Meaning a team can go best of either 16-0 or 16-1 and not 18-1? Where did the extra 2 wins come from all of a sudden?

What if Tim Duncan gets shot...? Then what? The point is YOU CANNOT PREDICT THE FUTURE!
Pathetic is what I think it is

Well this "fan" obviously did, predicting that the Lakers are Champions next year Oh wait, the majority of Laker fans did. This was just one of them

Jeez the season hasnt even started and ppl are talking bout " Team chemistry wont work yada yada yada

Yeah, geez the season hasn't even started and so why did this "fan" (being a Laker fan) do such a stupid thing? Like making a banner of the 4 Lakers with the 2004 title in the back? Oh yeah, as of what happened earlier this morning (2 PM PST/5 PM EST), I'm sure the Lakers "team chemistry" is somewhat doing a sudden turn for the worst. At least it wasn't how it was before the shocking news this morning.

Can you imagine GP+Kobe and Shaq+Malone?!

I rather see the team of Zo/Jermaine O'Neal, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, and Kidd play instead. At least they are young and more exciting to watch Oh yeah, and them in a Spurs uniform would look much nicer too

If Karl Malone and Payton had signed with the Spurs their chances of winning a title probably would be equal - if not better because - than them joining the Lakers.

Very true.

look at Spurs fans. Generally gracious, not cocky

Yeah, they got more respectful fans. Just look at this year when Tim Duncan won his second straight MVP title. During Playoff games, whenever he shoots FT's, you hardly ever hear fans chanting "MVP, MVP." Though I did hear a few chants on some games, but that's because he deserved the support of his fans. I can't say the same way towards the fans at Staples. Notice when Kobe got on that 9-straight games with 40 pts. or more, fans started chanting "MVP" every freakin' time. Yeah at the time I guess it was ok, but when Duncan has already been named the MVP for the 2003 season. They should at least stop and move on, maybe he'll win it next time (if he doesn't end up in jail, LOL).

Anyway, in a nut shell, some teams' fans are pretty much hated simply because they're fans of a team whose fans, for the most part, are arrogant little pricks. If Laker fans make posts or talk about winning 70 games 'easy,' then expect fans of other teams to make posts saying they hate Laker fans for their cockiness and arrogance and so on.

Nicely put Shane

That was an example, my point was if they signed sum big named free agent. That's what you guys would have done.

Nope, dunno about everyone else since everybody got their own opinions. I know I wouldn't.

I'll tell you something now Travis, you will have to live with it cause this is fun and the Lakers will make sure you don't have any fun for a long time.

Haha, well I dunno about that man. I am sure as hell finding myself in a great mood tonight. I'm sure many of the guys on here are too If I need to say, yeah the thing about Kobe, heh. Speaking of Kobe, what's up with his mouth? I bet pretty much everybody saw him and his wife on TV tonight, lol. Yeah, what's up with the mouth thing Kobe? I find that pretty funny too. As far as his speech or lack there of. I don't see how saying "I'm innocent..man I'm innocent" is going to prove anything to the majority of the people. I mean anyone could've said that, and do you expect that to be a good enough explanation as to why you're innocent? I think not. Yeah if I were him, I would be embarrassed for him. I would be embarrassed for his wife Vanessa.

True, however they were trying to get a great PF (just like Malone) and a great PG (just like Payton), I would ask if they don't need those, why were they trying to get those players (Kidd & O'Neal) then?

Yes they were trying to get those guys to upgrade just like the Lakers are. Unlike the Lakers however, they weren't going to sign Jermaine O'Neal to a $1.5 million contract, and I'm sure as hell Kidd wouldn't have accepted the $4.5 million either. My point is, the Spurs management would've been more upfront and professional with their players and not be so cheap.

Travis

i'm not a laker fan or hater, and actually i'm not really a fan of anyone on their team, including the big four, but now that there seems to be a feeling that there is no way they won't win the title next season, i hope they don't, nothing personal against any of them, the team or the fans, just that it would be more interesting to hear the reactions if they don't win it. would they then look stupid for not going after kidd and brand, or some other free agents? there have been teams that have added superstars to their squad thinking they would be surefire pieces to get a title that have bombed.

I agree. If the Lakers don't win the title - and until they actually win the 2004 NBA title, that remains a possibility - it will be difficult to make excuses or explain the defeat.

Ehm, I did get that, I meant lets keep the odds of winning etc till when the time comes

dirt dog wisely said:

The time for the odds is now, if you are a betting man you grab the odds now (Vegas has 18-1) because come next year it will be down to about 6-1.

and for the sake of rolling eyes...which you apparently enjoy doin

yes, especially when the situation calls for it... like now..
psycho jackal

Remember the big 3 Three in Houston? Absoultely NO Finals apperances. They got beat by the(heh heh) Utah Jazz. I'll say it again... These Lakers are just paper champions.

And IF they do win the title maybe they should be considered asterik champions... Any team would have signed those 2 players for that amount of money, but the Lakers have "the two best players on the planet", so why do you need these guys? Is losing so unlikely in these guys heads, their EGOS so damaged by getting an ass whupping from Tim Duncan, that Shaq and Hobe Cryant NEED 4 superstars to win a title? Didn't Mike win six straight with just 2(None of them as dominant in the post as Shaq)? I'm just waiting for Dominique to come out of retirement and start at small forward so he can get his ring.

As for Gary and Karl, I hardly think this would prove they "earned" a ring. Several players were squessed out of rings because of the Jordan era(Nique, Barkley, Ewing for example) and I don't see them lining up to play for the Lakers. The fact that they think this is gonna be easy is what makes me say they don't deserve it. Mike won because he worked hard, he was dedicated, and most other champs have embraced this attitude. These over hyped homos ASSUME they will win the title. Anyone remember "PUT THE FOURS UP!! PUT THE FOURS UP I SAY!!" Yeah Shaq, four more months to sit and wonder about that bus(Duncan) that ran over the Lakers bandwagon.

The big deal is, they got those players by signing them to "cheap deals" that's what. The got the players they want by having them take huge paycuts. Just ask Brian Shaw, Robert Horry (maybe..), Rick Fox (not sure on him but maybe as well..), and now Payton and Malone.

Cheap deals or not, they're on the Lakers now, by choice of their own, if they would've had a problem with the pay-cut, they wud've signed sumwhere else, yet they signed with the Lakers since they both thought that they had the biggest chances of winning with the Lakers...so you whining bout the Lakers being cheap etc. is time wasting. It's their life...they agreed to that much money, since that's all they had to offer...if they dont have a problem taking the pay-cut...? Why the hell is it bothering the shit outta you? Maybe cuz the fact of the matter is...the lakers are the team to watch out for this season & you as a hater...which you are for sure, dont like.

I rather see the team of Zo/Jermaine O'Neal, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, and Kidd play instead. At least they are young and more exciting to watch Oh yeah, and them in a Spurs uniform would look much nicer too

Keep dreaming Travis, it's good to daydream.
Face it, Jermaine didnt sign with SA, neither did Zo and oh yeah neither did Kidd...

You are one of the very FEW people, that apparently doesnt think that this new line up is exciting to watch.

Malone and Payton DID sign with LA ...which apparently bothers you alot as people can read in your posts.

The only thing you kept saying in your posts summed up was: Lakers are cheap, Kobe's going to jail. Good going.

Shaq and Hobe Cryant NEED 4 superstars to win a title?

We all know that Shaq and Kobe had tons of superstars when they won their previous 3 Championship Rings .
The Lakers needed role players, that is what they were looking for in Howard, Brown etc. Now think...If Payton and Malone are willing to sign with you...WHY would you sign Howard/Brown?
Atleast Travis has some sensible stuff to discuss, that comment which I quoted you on, shows that you know nuthing previous to these couple of years or basketball.

I'm done, write whatever you want, I made my points.
Let's see what this season has in store for us.

Great post Psycho_Jackal, saved me from posting something along those lines...

As for Gary and Karl, I hardly think this would prove they "earned" a ring. Several players were squessed out of rings because of the Jordan era(Nique, Barkley, Ewing for example) and I don't see them lining up to play for the Lakers. The fact that they think this is gonna be easy is what makes me say they don't deserve it. Mike won because he worked hard, he was dedicated, and most other champs have embraced this attitude. These over hyped homos ASSUME they will win the title. Anyone remember "PUT THE FOURS UP!! PUT THE FOURS UP I SAY!!" Yeah Shaq, four more months to sit and wonder about that bus(Duncan) that ran over the Lakers bandwagon.

Gary Payton and Karl Malone deserve rings more than any other players in this league. They've never said that this is going to be easy because it won't. It won't be a walk in the park. They know they can't put up Fisher-Horry numbers. They're going to make an impact and do their part for the team. They are going to earn these. Many players, including them, never got their rings because of Jordan, but now they have their chance, by putting their all-star skills with the Lakers. No one should compare Payton and Malone to MJ. We're not going to. Payton and Malone have worked hard and dedicated themselves. They've gone on with this attitude their whole careers. This is what they bring to the Lakers, which will get them past the Spurs, past the semi-finals.

I mean I wouldn't have said anything if this "fan" didn't go out and made the banner saying that they're (Lakers) are going to win next year.

Again, if you see a Dallas fan saying they will be champs or creating a logo saying that, would you hate him for that?

Well, I just told you, you won't have fun for a very long time cause hating is not fun & knowing you will keep seeing everyone (Nets fans, Spurs fans, Queens fans, etc) saying their team will be the next champions, that makes them as Cocky & arrogant as any Lakers fan.

Why?, cause at the starting of the season every freaky team gets there to fight for a championship. That as well would be too soon to say anything, however none of them go there & say we will be the 2004 losers but we will be the champions. Even I understand your point, I guess I have the same rights to hate you or dislike you if you believe someone else is going to be a champion . Is there any democrazy around where you live?

Of course not (I wasn't actually aware of that fact ).

I meant the way you sound when you express yourself, look at Travis, there he's just saying he doesn't like some particular fans cause they make logos & think they will be the champs, that's arrogant & cocky (I guess he believes his team is going to lose next year so he doesn't have the same rights to say they will win). He's showing hate, he's not showing that he disagrees or has a different opinion but hate toward whoever uses the logo or created it.

Cheap deals or not, they're on the Lakers now, by choice of their own, if they would've had a problem with the pay-cut, they wud've signed sumwhere else, yet they signed with the Lakers since they both thought that they had the biggest chances of winning with the Lakers

I agree. If anything, hold the pay-cut against the players themselves. After all, both GP and Malone knew their market value and hinted at feeling underappreciated by Seattle and Utah respectively, heading into the final year of their deals. I don't think you should hold a grudge against the Lakers' management for paying so much money they don't have much to spend on free agents (although you might criticise it).

If there's any criticism about pay-cuts, it should be directed at GP and the Mailman, both of whom agreed to the deals despite money being an issue with their former clubs. However, it's not often you see star players who can still demand big contracts take such a large pay-cut, and at the end of the day, it's up to Payton and Malone as to where they want to play.

We all know that Shaq and Kobe had tons of superstars when they won their previous 3 Championship Rings

I could be wrong, but I think Ceasar121 was being sarcastic with his 4 superstars comment. After all, the Lakers did not need 4 superstars to win three straight titles; so why did they sign Payton and Malone? Obvious answer, you can't pass up the opportunity to sign players such as Gary Payton and Karl Malone, but the fact remains they don't need 4 superstars.

I think it's fair enough to say that the Lakers would still be in great shape to win the title in 2004 if they didn't acquire Payton and Malone, but just made a few adjustments. Bring in a good third player a la Glen Rice in the first title year and Horace Grant in the second, let Kobe recover from his shoulder injury and make sure Shaq is motivated and in shape. With the same formula and competitive spirit that won 3 titles from 2000-2002, the Lakers would be title contenders this season.

I think there is a lot of pressure on the Lakers this year, even more so than their campaigns to repeat and threepeat as champions. If they don't win it all, there's going to be even more questions. If they don't win, it will say a lot about teams that are great on paper. It would be difficult to make excuses for this team. Chances are, they won't be making excuses. But almost anything is possible.

However, it's not often you see star players who can still demand big contracts take such a large pay-cut

I agree people feel bad for those playing for that kind of money but I don't think anyone felt that way when MJ decided to play for 1 million.

If they don't win, it will say a lot about teams that are great on paper. It would be difficult to make excuses for this team. Chances are, they won't be making excuses. But almost anything is possible.

True, there are still Queens fans who keep saying they didn't win cause they lost Webber, I don't think it will be so difficult to have an excuse.

I agree people feel bad for those playing for that kind of money but I don't think anyone felt that way when MJ decided to play for 1 million.

I don't anyone should feel bad for Payton and Malone. There were more lucrative options, but they chose to take a pay-cut. If anything's that's an admirable act in the world of pro sports.

True, there are still Queens fans who keep saying they didn't win cause they lost Webber, I don't think it will be so difficult to have an excuse.

Losing Webber was a blow to the Kings though, signing two superstars is not. Webber's injury did complicate things for Sacramento, so it's an acceptable excuse (not to take anything away from the Mavs). If the Lakers fail to win the title with 4 healthy superstars, it would be much harder for anyone - not just Laker fans but anyone and everyone - to conjure up an excuse, at least one related to the talent on their roster.

Cheap deals or not, they're on the Lakers now

So does that mean you agree that it was a cheap deal?

yet they signed with the Lakers since they both thought that they had the biggest chances of winning with the Lakers...

Uh..they would've had a BETTER chance at winning the title if they signed with the Spurs don't you think? They're the deeper team if I'm correct..

so you whining bout the Lakers being cheap etc. is time wasting.

Not really "time wasting" because I'm NOT the only one that feels the same way. Like I said, if you haven't checked the ESPN message boards; you would have no idea. So until you do, you can't say I'm "whining" when there are many others out there that do think that it was cheap. Well not only cheap, but more appropriate to say they were BIG TIME DESPERATE to win a title. Enough said.

the fact of the matter is...the lakers are the team to watch out for this season & you as a hater...which you are for sure, dont like.

I for sure ain't gonna watch them. I for sure don't think they're all that, that group is NOTHING special in my eyes. I for sure don't think watching Shaquille being able to bullied his way into the paint is any fun. I for sure don't think watching Malone play is exciting or interesting. Never had, never will. I never liked the Jazz because of Stockton and Malone, they were known as dirty players. If I could remember correctly, not a whole lot of fans back then and now liked Malone. Especially Laker fans, then all of a sudden he joins..you are all for him now. What is up with that? You think I would and should all of a sudden, "like" Malone cuz he's on the Lakers? Now why in the world do I have to like Malone now when I never liked the guy since he's on Utah? Same goes with Gary Payton, yes he's a great player. Never really liked him anyways, so my attitude towards him is neutral. As far as Kobe is concerned, I never liked him either. He's way too cocky, the majority of the fans online don't like him either (excluding Laker fans of course). Anyway, as far as you calling me a "hater." No I'm not a hater, all I said was I disliked the Lakers BECAUSE of their fans, and how they act on and off the court (Lakers). I also dislike the Jazz (said before), Mavericks, Kings, Timberwolves, Nets, Pacers..yeah, if you can count how many that was; it's NOT just the Lakers that I don't like. So your accusation of me being just a Laker "hater" is absolutely wrong.

Face it, Jermaine didnt sign with SA, neither did Zo and oh yeah neither did Kidd...

All I said was that would've been a MORE EXCITING team to watch. Did I cry about the Spurs not getting those guys? NO! I didn't say crap about dreaming about it to happen. So not sure where or how you got the thought of me "daydreaming" about that..

You are one of the very FEW people, that apparently doesnt think that this new line up is exciting to watch.

BS, I told you this before and I'll say it again. The Lakers are NOT the team to watch, they have nothing special for me wanting to watch them play this season (or next). I also told you to check out the post on the ESPN board, see how many other fans out there besides the ones on the NLSC that DO NOT like the Lakers just like me. Until you do that, please don't bring up stupid things like "the Lakers are the best team this year and everybody wants to watch them play." That is just BS and you know it. There are fans of other teams too and fans that don't like the Lakers are not going to all of a sudden "like to watch this All-Star team play."

Malone and Payton DID sign with LA ...which apparently bothers you alot..

Hmm..it bothers me because Malone and Payton signed with the Lakers, so I decided to go on a rampage of hate on the Lakers?? Take a closer look at the TITLE OF THIS THREAD. More importantly, look at the subject of this thread. I made it up because of the "fan" that decided to be stupid enough to make a "Laker Championship" graphic/banner and sent it out to everyone. That's cocky and arrogant of a Laker fan. That's what bothers me, NOT because of the acquisitions of Payton and Malone. I could care less now since they're too desperate to win a title.

Atleast Travis has some sensible stuff to discuss, that comment which I quoted you on, shows that you know nuthing previous to these couple of years or basketball.

What?? Hmm..sure is funny how you quoted the WRONG person and blamed it on me? If I'm not mistaken, I think this quote..

Shaq and Hobe Cryant NEED 4 superstars to win a title?

was said by Ceasar? So..I think it is YOU who doesn't know what the hell you're talking about .

Let's see what this season has in store for us.

Yeah, lets all see how these desperate Lakers do this coming season. Cuz I sure as hell would be the FIRST of many to be laughing at you if they don't win it all

Gary Payton and Karl Malone deserve rings more than any other players in this league.

Malone and Stockton yes, but not Gary Payton. There are many other players out there that deserve it more than GP. I'll give you one, Jason Kidd. He has takened his team to the Finals twice and came up short 2 straight years. He's worked his butt off, he's the best point guard in the league today. What has Gary Payton done for the Sonics and Bucks? Did he take his team to the Finals? Nope, never had. Payton has been in the league for 4 more years than Kidd has and has never come close to the title. Kidd has twice, he has tasted the worst defeat of all. Payton only suffers from not being there, so now he's REALLY desperate to be there. So he signs with the "Lackers" as Ben might say heh.

Again, if you see a Dallas fan saying they will be champs or creating a logo saying that, would you hate him for that?

Yes, because I'm not a fan of Dallas either. But unlike a Laker fan, I HAVEN'T seen a Mavericks fan make a banner proclaiming NBA Champs have I?

knowing you will keep seeing everyone (Nets fans, Spurs fans, Queens fans, etc) saying their team will be the next champions, that makes them as Cocky & arrogant as any Lakers fan.

Uh..Spurs ARE the defending Champs am I right? I for one haven't heard their fans say they're going to repeat. Their fans keep quiet and not cuz all this commotion like Laker fans do. Oh yeah, when the Spurs won their first title in '99. I didn't see or hear of fans destroying cars, burning stores, breaking into other properties. But I do hear about it, and saw what happened on TV when the Lakers won it in 2000. Then again in 2001 and 2002, that's Laker fans for you Look at the Spurs 2003 Championship team, look at their fans. Did you hear any bad fans going crazy on the streets of San Antonio? Don't think so. So why are you saying they have arrogant and cocky fans? Where is your proof?

look at Travis, there he's just saying he doesn't like some particular fans cause they make logos & think they will be the champs, that's arrogant & cocky (I guess he believes his team is going to lose next year so he doesn't have the same rights to say they will win).

Uh..I'm a lifelong Suns fan if you didn't know that by now. Anyway, the Suns have never won a title, and I don't think they would ever any time soon. That doesn't mean I would just hop onto another team (like the Spurs cuz they just won) and be all cocky and arrogant. I will stick to my team from highs and low. If they win, yeah I'll be happy just like all other Suns fans. But I sure WILL NOT EVER (and I do stress the word "EVER"), make a banner predicting they will win the title next year. I'll never go onto this board or any other board and brag about them winning or not. Look at the Arizona Diamondbacks when they won the 2001 World Series. That was the very first major sports Championship for the state of Arizona. Yes a lot of people were happy cuz they won, but the fans didn't cause trouble on the streets. Oh yeah, and I didn't go on message boards and brag about it and shove it in people's face. Nor did I make banner saying they were going to win the World Series in 2002. Look at the All-Star pitchers they have in Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling. I could've been all arrogant and cocky by blabbering my mouth about it all year; but I didn't. That's not the way I am and not the way I act. I act more mature and I will express my opinion on what I feel is right and what I feel is wrong. That's exactly what I'm doing right now, expressing my dislike against Laker fans and how the Laker management runs the players. Just because I'm brave enough to bring it up, I got facts to back up my statements. Unlike the majority of Laker fans (keyword there, majority) out there, they will do these things. That's what makes them arrogant and cocky. Therefore, not many outside fans will like them or approve of them because of the way they act. Hope this is a good enough explanation for you guys. If you guys still don't understand it, too bad cuz I'm not explaining it anymore.

He's showing hate, he's not showing that he disagrees or has a different opinion but hate toward whoever uses the logo or created it.

How can you say it's "hate" when all I'm doing is expressing what I feel? So what you're trying to say is because I'm not a fan of your Lakers, I'm automatically considered a "Laker hater?" So what's the point here? How come if I say something like I don't like the Jazz because of Stockton and Malone (when they were still there), I'm not being called a "Jazz hater?" But when it comes to the Lakers, I'm called a "Laker hater" just like everybody else that expresses a negative thing about them? Comon man, be more reasonable with your comments.

If there's any criticism about pay-cuts, it should be directed at GP and the Mailman..

Yes, that's why I said they were desperate if nothing else.

there are still Queens fans who keep saying they didn't win cause they lost Webber..

Only Laker fans call the Kings, "Queens." Come on now, that's getting old, drop it

Travis

anyway...................... do u know who made tht pic travis? must've been some pretty good photoshop work there wif the jerseys

What has Gary Payton done for the Sonics and Bucks? Did he take his team to the Finals? Nope, never had. Payton has been in the league for 4 more years than Kidd has and has never come close to the title.

Payton has been to the Finals with the Sonics, back in 1996.

Yes, that's why I said they were desperate if nothing else.

I wouldn't necessarily say desperate. I think Payton and Malone know they'll be recognised as great players whether they win a title or not, but the lure of a title certainly outweighed the issue of money. The situation seems to fit everyone's needs. Payton and Malone are nearing the end of their careers and are chasing a title, the Lakers are trying to regroup after being eliminated in the second round.

Not really "time wasting" because I'm NOT the only one that feels the same way. Like I said, if you haven't checked the ESPN message boards; you would have no idea. So until you do, you can't say I'm "whining" when there are many others out there that do think that it was cheap. Well not only cheap, but more appropriate to say they were BIG TIME DESPERATE to win a title. Enough said.

The Lakers aren't cheap they are poor. THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANYMORE MONEY TO OFFER MALONE OR PAYTON. If Malone and Payton signed with the Spurs for similar sized contracts would you be calling the Spurs cheap?? Is the reason your making such a huge deal about this got anything to do with your hate for the Lakers??

Hmm..it bothers me because Malone and Payton signed with the Lakers, so I decided to go on a rampage of hate on the Lakers?? Take a closer look at the TITLE OF THIS THREAD. More importantly, look at the subject of this thread. I made it up because of the "fan" that decided to be stupid enough to make a "Laker Championship" graphic/banner and sent it out to everyone. That's cocky and arrogant of a Laker fan. That's what bothers me, NOT because of the acquisitions of Payton and Malone. I could care less now since they're too desperate to win a title.

Not all fans are cocky and arrogant. We don't all spend our time making banners or graphics and spaming "Lakers Rule!" everywhere. It's called stereotyping. Because a few over excited Laker fans are going overboard you hate Laker fans and therefore the Lakers and anything they do(eg.signing two superstars to small contracts).
What's this crap about being too desperate to win a title. Isn't every team desperate to win a title. Wouldn't that be a good quality? Ohh, that's right it's the Lakers so it's a negative thing.

What has Gary Payton done for the Sonics and Bucks? Did he take his team to the Finals? Nope, never had. Payton has been in the league for 4 more years than Kidd has and has never come close to the title.

That shows your NBA knowledge....

Only Laker fans call the Kings, "Queens." Come on now, that's getting old, drop it

Only Laker haters call them the "Lackers" And trust me, that has been old for a long time

anyway...................... do u know who made tht pic travis? must've been some pretty good photoshop work there wif the jerseys

Nope, dunno who made it. Just know he's full of crap for making it.

Payton has been to the Finals with the Sonics, back in 1996.

Alright, maybe I was wrong there. Sorry.

The Lakers aren't cheap they are poor. THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANYMORE MONEY TO OFFER MALONE OR PAYTON.

Aren't cheap but poor eh? So why did they release Brian Shaw in the middle of the season just to sign him back for a CHEAPER CONTRACT? It's gonna be even more true when and IF they sign Robert Horry back, to yes, another CHEAP CONTRACT. If I am correct, they were still the defending Champs, they weren't going after any big name Free Agents at the time Shaw was released. So explain why they released him then resigned him right away?

If Malone and Payton signed with the Spurs for similar sized contracts would you be calling the Spurs cheap??

There's not really an "if" in that question and YOU KNOW IT. The Spurs wouldn't be signing Malone and Payton to only a combined $6 million a year if they have money would they? I think not. So your comment on this is just stupid.

Is the reason your making such a huge deal about this got anything to do with your hate for the Lakers??

Did you EVER read what I posted above? You're missing key points here Clinton. Didn't I say I didn't like the Jazz, Nets, Mavs, Kings too? I'm only getting on the Lakers and their fans because they brought it up to themselves to be attack by others fans. Do you see any of the teams I didn't like sign anybody to a cheap deal? Did any fan of those teams make a banner/graphic declaring themselve the 2004 Champs? ONLY the Lakers and their fans would do those things, so why are you surprised I'm on their ass the way I am? Sheesh.

Not all fans are cocky and arrogant.

Did I say ALL Laker fans? I clearly said the MAJORITY of them, read man, it helps.

Because a few over excited Laker fans are going overboard..

LOL! "A few," hahaha!!. That's funny Clinton. Show me "a few" of the fans, I don't believe it until I see it (or read) when my own eyes. I bet I can show you more than "a few" cocky and arrogant Laker fans out there.

What's this crap about being too desperate to win a title. Isn't every team desperate to win a title.

If that could be called desperate, it's a different kind of desperate. Yes every team upgrade each year/summer to get better. To make a run for the title the next year. As I said, it's a different type of desperate. The desperate I was talking about was about the LAKERS MANAGEMENT, PAYTON AND KARL MALONE?

Ohh, that's right it's the Lakers so it's a negative thing.

Ohh, it's called "read more carefully" of what's being said above before you say something else.

Only Laker haters call them the "Lackers" And trust me, that has been old for a long time

Hmm..show me ONE time I called the Lakers, the "Lackers." If you can, I will shut up. Also tell me this since I brought it up before and NO LAKER fan dares to comment on it cuz it's so true. Anyway, so if anyone who calls the Lakers, the "Lackers." That automatically qualifies them to being a "Laker hater?" So does Shaquille O'Neal calling the Sacramento Kings, the "Sacramento Queens" automatically makes him a Kings hater? If not, so what's the difference from him calling them the "Queens" and not being called a hater? From other fans calling the Lakers, "Lackers" and being called a "hater?" Is it because Shaq's on the Lakers AND he could call any team, or anybody names if he wants? Please explain this Clinton..

Travis

Just my opinion, but I feel that Kemp was the leader of the Sonics Finals run...

You're not a hater if you don't like a team and disagree with arrogant proclamations made by fans of a team....I think everyone says "Laker Hater" because it rhymes...doesn't really sound good to say 'Jazz Hater' or 'Raptor Hater'...

Atleast Travis has some sensible stuff to discuss, that comment which I quoted you on, shows that you know nuthing previous to these couple of years or basketball.

What?? Hmm..sure is funny how you quoted the WRONG person and blamed it on me? If I'm not mistaken, I think this quote..

Shaq and Hobe Cryant NEED 4 superstars to win a title?

was said by Ceasar? So..I think it is YOU who doesn't know what the hell you're talking about .

Ehm, I did blame Ceaser for that quote. I said, Travis has sensible stuff to say, whereas you (Ceasar) dont, shows your basketball knowledge etc.
You're taking everything I write in my posts very offensively as I can see, not everything I write in my psots revolves around you or is directed at you , I just used you as an example to show Ceasar what healty discussing was about (Which you are stopping to do with bullshit like "You're confused and dont know what the hell you're talking about" and keep repeating yourself with bullshit like: "Lakers are cheap"). So you with your bullshit remark bout "me not knowing what the hell I'm talking about" shows two things, you can't read and you're taking this a tad too personally.

As for the rest of your...crap ( your post if you didnt get that ) I will not bother to comment further cuz you are just too hard headed, as I said, you are one of the very few ppl that does not want to watch that Line Up.

You just do not seem to understand, you're viewing the situation from one standpoint only.

Steve (Scubilite) keeps asking you, if that were the same banner, of the Sacramento Kings, meaning with them on the picture and the other stuff, would you REALLY make a whole topic about not liking "King" fans? I really doubt it, you made this because it involved the Lakers...

You're being one-sided towards the Lakers which I dont appreciate, you wouldnt do it if it were any other team.

Now that the Lakers are not "cheap" as you said, Karl Malone and Gary Payton are "desperate?"...seems you're more desperate to say atleast SUMTHING bad/negative about the Lakers, their management, their players....which in the end does qualify as hating agaisnt them. But you ofcourse will come up with another bullshit story of: "Oh no, me hate them no, I only hate their fans."

As I said, it's not worth discussing with you, since you come up with lame ass things like; Lakers are cheap (which they arent, you bringing up Brian Shaw thing, again you look at it from one viewpoint: Just think, Spurs had him, If the guy is WILLING to take a paycut... Would the Spurs really say, oh noh we couldnt do that. As Andrew said, let the players decide what they wanna do, if Shaw had a problem, he wouldnt have done it rite? so why's it bugging YOU?!).

I know I keep saying, that I wont post anymore, but you keep coming up with stuff, which is totally not the way you say it is.

Great post Psycho_Jackal, saved me from posting something along those lines...

Thanx, and no problem since not EVERY laker fan is arrogant and cocky as sum hard headed people assume, most true Laker fans, tend to think alike.

Malone and Stockton yes, but not Gary Payton. There are many other players out there that deserve it more than GP. I'll give you one, Jason Kidd. He has takened his team to the Finals twice and came up short 2 straight years. He's worked his butt off, he's the best point guard in the league today. What has Gary Payton done for the Sonics and Bucks? Did he take his team to the Finals? Nope, never had. Payton has been in the league for 4 more years than Kidd has and has never come close to the title. Kidd has twice, he has tasted the worst defeat of all. Payton only suffers from not being there, so now he's REALLY desperate to be there. So he signs with the "Lackers" as Ben might say heh.

How does Jason Kidd deserve a ring more than Payton? Kidd's at the prime of his career right now and although he might be a little better than Payton NOW, he isn't better than Payton was in his prime. Payton and Malone both have gone to the Finals and come short because of Michael Jordan's Bulls. So he has taken his team to the Finals(and don't say it was mostly Kemp because Payton was DPOTY, that year and went to the Olympics that summer). He, after all these years in the NBA, playing with his own style, working his ass off, and dedicating himself to the game, deserves a ring more than Kidd. He's a future hall of famer, and one of the best all time at his position.

Payton and Malone aren't desperate. They're smart. They already have millions of dollars and this is their best chance to get the rings that they deserve now, in the later parts of their careers. What better way to end their careers, with a championship.

Look at EVERYTHING that they've done in their careers. They've accomplished practically everything they can, except get a ring. Can you blame them. And now they have their chance!! All they're doing is signing with a team where they have a very good chance to win titles. They're giving up the millions of dollars that they could get on other teams, they're giving away their all star stats so they can win. That shows determination, competitiveness, and passion for winning. It sure as hell doesn't make them desperate.

the question is wut if they don't win the championship in the next two years?

Ehm, I did blame Ceaser for that quote. I said, Travis has sensible stuff to say, whereas you (Ceasar) dont, shows your basketball knowledge etc.

Take a look at what and how you quoted your stuff man. In that post you made, you quoted me 2 times, and it clearly says "TravisLee324 wrote:." Then that post that you say Ceasar wrote that you quoted on him, it only says

Shaq and Hobe Cryant NEED 4 superstars to win a title?

IF you would've quoted Ceasar, it would've said "Ceasar121 wrote:" something, something, but it didn't. So that's why I thought you were quoting me for something I did not say.

You're taking everything I write in my posts very offensively as I can see, not everything I write in my psots revolves around you or is directed at you

It would helped a bit more if you used the quoting system correctly

(Which you are stopping to do with bullshit like "You're confused and dont know what the hell you're talking about"

Like I said, if you would've used the quoting system correctly and quoted the right person, we wouldn't have got this problem.

So you with your bullshit remark bout "me not knowing what the hell I'm talking about" shows two things, you can't read..

Heh, yeah by reading what and how you posted your comments. I'd say you don't know much of the English grammar do you?

I will not bother to comment further cuz you are just too hard headed, as I said, you are one of the very few ppl that does not want to watch that Line Up.

Dude, so just because they have 4 All-Stars on the team, I have to want to see them play? If I don't, I'm considered a "hater," or "hard headed?" I'm a lifelong Suns fan and I rather be watching MY team play (or hometeam if I was still living in AZ). You make it seem like "they're the Lakers, they have 4 All-Star players that everybody wants to watch." Please man, that's just lame. There are MORE than "a few" fans out there that don't really care to watch them play? Like someone said in an earlier topic. Think we should just stop watching the NBA for the next 2 years (or something close to that).

You just do not seem to understand, you're viewing the situation from one standpoint only.

You want me to show you other's opinions on this? You want me to prove to you there are more than just one's standpoint to this? If you want, hey I'll be happy to show you I'm telling you this one last time, I am NOT the only person that doesn't like the Lakers. There are a majority of people out there that don't like them. There's also a majority of Laker fans that are cocky and arrogant. Try to understand that..

Steve (Scubilite) keeps asking you, if that were the same banner, of the Sacramento Kings, meaning with them on the picture and the other stuff, would you REALLY make a whole topic about not liking "King" fans?

Um..

scubilete wrote:

Again, if you see a Dallas fan saying they will be champs or creating a logo saying that, would you hate him for that?

I said:

Yes, because I'm not a fan of Dallas either. But unlike a Laker fan, I HAVEN'T seen a Mavericks fan make a banner proclaiming NBA Champs have I?

Do I need to say anymore? Seems like you DIDN'T read that part did you? If you did, guess it "confused" you and so you didn't understand what the heck I was referring to.

I really doubt it, you made this because it involved the Lakers...

I would've done the same if it would have been another team. Why haven't I you asked? Well I never saw a Kings banner that says "2004 Champs" have I?

You're being one-sided towards the Lakers which I dont appreciate, you wouldnt do it if it were any other team.

Nope, wrong again.

Now that the Lakers are not "cheap" as you said, Karl Malone and Gary Payton are "desperate?"...seems you're more desperate to say atleast SUMTHING bad/negative about the Lakers, their management, their players....which in the end does qualify as hating agaisnt them. But you ofcourse will come up with another bullshit story of: "Oh no, me hate them no, I only hate their fans."

Check your spelling and grammars man. No, I haven't changed my opinions on them; nor will the majority of others.

if Shaw had a problem, he wouldnt have done it rite? so why's it bugging YOU?!).

Did you read the story right? I thought it said that Shaw wasn't happy about the situation. Then of course he's not going to complain cuz he wanted to win another title. I'll point this out and you'll see what I mean. Take a look at Denver for example, this year they drafted Carmelo Anthony. They're trying to upgrade and sign free agents as well, so what does Anthony do? He waits until Denver negotiates with other key free agents BEFORE he signs his. Giving Denver more options and more money to try and help the team. Look at the Spurs, again this off season with the signing of Tim Duncan. He didn't negotiate or signed his long-term deal first thing. He waited till AFTER the Spurs have tried to sign Jason Kidd, and whoever they needed to sign. So right after the Kidd deal didn't happen, Rasho signed; then Duncan signed his. That is showing that you want to help the team at all cost. It also shows that the Spurs have a GREAT organization and they care about their players. They wouldn't rip them off by signing them to cheap contracts. Now another thing about the managements. I'll compare the Lakers and Spurs management and you'll see what I'm talking about. I'll start off with the Spurs, look at how they treated Kidd and his wife Joumana. They showed interest and they cared what Kidd and Joumana will think of the organization. They showed professionalism, they were upfront with everything. They gave Kidd and Joumana a tour of the city, took them out for dinner. They also looked into Joumana's career by giving her a job there as a newscaster if she moved there. That's showing great courtesy and being professional, showing they really want him to be part of the team. While as the Lakers, oh a few phone calls, meeting, done deal. What the heck is that? That only shows that Malone and Payton didn't really care about anything else but the ring. I mean if they made a decision on just phone calls and meeting (which they had pretty much made up their mind that they wanted to play for L.A.), the management didn't really do much at all to impress their free agents did they?

since not EVERY laker fan is arrogant and cocky as sum hard headed people assume..

Where did I say "every Laker fan?"

Travis

since not EVERY laker fan is arrogant and cocky as sum hard headed people assume..

Where did I say "every Laker fan?"

What's the title of the this topic?