Where are they now: Isaiah Rider

[Lamrock]

Maybe he's Len biased....

Post of the year.

[el badman]

Sauru wrote:
i dont see how griffin can be considered the worst ever, not when you consider the level a player len bias was. maybe i am biased cause if he lived and played with bird the celtics would have completly raped the nba and the entire look of the nba would have been much much different than it was


So you think it was the worst because he could've been a good player... that's pretty shallow reasoning. Well, extremely shallow reasoning.

Yeah, given the extremely shocking conditions of Griffin's death and his last days, I can't really see a bigger NBA-related tragedy than this. His potential impact (or lack thereof) on the league should not really be relevant here...

[Mayerhendrix]

i dont see how griffin can be considered the worst ever, not when you consider the level a player len bias was. maybe i am biased cause if he lived and played with bird the celtics would have completly raped the nba and the entire look of the nba would have been much much different than it was

So you think it was the worst because he could've been a good player... that's pretty shallow reasoning. Well, extremely shallow reasoning.

Nah, I think I get what he's saying. It's comparing what he accomplished to what he could've been. Eddie Griffin really wasn't going to be too much in the NBA anyway, while guys like Bias and Kemp likely had many brilliant years still ahead.

[Sauru]

i dont see how griffin can be considered the worst ever, not when you consider the level a player len bias was. maybe i am biased cause if he lived and played with bird the celtics would have completly raped the nba and the entire look of the nba would have been much much different than it was

So you think it was the worst because he could've been a good player... that's pretty shallow reasoning. Well, extremely shallow reasoning.

you say shallow? how so? being completly honest, thats the way things are. the better player means more to more people than the lesser player. if michael jordan was killed in the prime of his career vs lets say, elden campbell which do you think would cause the biggest shock? which do you think would have more people crying out? it sounds wrong but in reality the truth almost always sounds wrong. if i was to die tomorrow it would effect a few people, if the president dies it would effect an entire country.

so i guess if its shallow to speak the truth then so be it, cause thats the way it is

[J@3]

you say shallow? how so? being completly honest, thats the way things are. the better player means more to more people than the lesser player.

How does that make it more tragic? Actually, how is that even correct? You've given me absolutely no solid or remotely convincing argument at all as to why Bias's death is more tragic than Griffins, all you've done is continually said he was a better player so its more tragic. Why? How? I really fail to see how a guy battling alcoholism/depression and possibly killing himself, essentially being burned beyond recognition and leaving a daughter behind is less tragic than some idiot getting too hammered at his draft celebration party.

And Eddie Griffin was the better NBA player.

[Sauru]

griffin more to fewer people than bias did. thats pretty much it. you also have to take into account talent level. sure you can say both players situations are equally tragic, of course if you take the rout then you gotta say that the death of JFK was just as tragic as some career criminal who was shot by his own friend over 50 bucks

[benji]

Jae's focus is on the person who died and the tragedy of their stories, your focus is on yourself and the deaths' impact on you (or others and themselves).

[Mayerhendrix]

Or impact on the NBA. If you take that into account then it's easily Len Bias over Eddie Griffin. Over what makes a better sob story, it's Eddie Griffin.

[shadowgrin]

Len Bias didn't make an impact in the NBA. He never played one game or even a minute.
If you say him being the second pick in the draft is an impact in the league, then I guess Kwame Brown and Michael Olowakandi has more impact compared to him seeing as they were the number one pick.
Tragic as both cases are, I'd still rate Reggie Lewis death as having more impact to the NBA than a second pick that even didn't play a single minute in the league because he OD'ed, which is the usual story of people being young and foolish.

[Andrew]

I think the saddest of them all has to be Shawn Kemp.

Actually he lost all the weight, has a family and has stayed away from drugs and everything the past 3 years. He was playing overseas last year but now I don't know what he is doing.

Agreed. Kemp's NBA career may have fizzled and not really ended on his terms but it seems that his post-NBA life has been fairly positive, save for a couple of incidents that derailed a potential comeback a couple of years ago.

Still though, all of it's post-NBA. Sure it wasn't as bad as some of these other guys but I think if you put it as a ratio (for lack of a better word) of how they fared to how they could've been then Kemp definitely has to rank as one of the sad stories of the NBA.

Perhaps, but Kemp still had a pretty good NBA career and seems to be doing alright for himself these days. Kemp might have had the most to lose being one of the top players at his position while he was in his prime but I'd consider Len Bias and Eddie Griffin to be sadder stories.

[Sauru]

Jae's focus is on the person who died and the tragedy of their stories, your focus is on yourself and the deaths' impact on you (or others and themselves).

i guess if you do focus on the person and just the person than everyones individual tragady would have to be equally tragic, as any death is meaningfull to that person who just died, no matter the cause of it

[J@3]

You just don't seem to get it, that's all.

[Sauru]

i do get, and i just explained it there. if you take the person into account then its all equally tragic, no matter the person. by that logic you can never pick one over the other. no if thats how anyone thinks i wont argue that, i will just disagree with it that i think the person in question always has an impact when comparing what is more tragic

[Andrew]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSUE3f374yQ[/youtube]

Perhaps Rider's most memorable moment on the court, outside of the dunk contests.

[Kenny]

To me I always thought the Bison Dele case was the most tragic. Along with Malik Sealy, Bobby Phills and Drazen Petrovic.

...whatever happened to Vin Baker?

[benji]

Dele's is certainly the strangest. Although, that kinda follows with much of his career.

[Andrew]

...whatever happened to Vin Baker?

He spent six games on the inactive list for the Timberwolves last season before being released. He was arrested for drunk driving last year but there hasn't been much reported on him since.

[Kenny]

I saw him on NBA Live 06 and he had an absolute horse-shit rating. Did his career kind of fizzle out like Kemp's did?

[grusom]

I think he admitted that he was an alcoholic, then went through rehab without much succes.

I remember reading a SLAM article about him a million years ago where he was mentioned as a possible suitor to take over MJ's throne when he retired.

[Andrew]

I saw him on NBA Live 06 and he had an absolute horse-shit rating. Did his career kind of fizzle out like Kemp's did?

Pretty much. The lockout year was the beginning of his downfall and as grusom said, he's had problems with alcoholism for a while.

[shadowgrin]

I still remember Baker's "go to move".
Post-up down low, dribble back to the defender, spin towards the middle of the paint, shoot a fade away with corresponding kick from one foot to widen the distance. Pretty effective, though I'm not fond of bigmen taking fade away shots.

[Andrew]

Didn't that move get nicknamed the Shake 'n Bake? Or am I just confusing that with one of several Baker related headlines and column titles from back in the day?

[Kenny]

that's a shame, I thought he was a gun in his prime

[Andrew]

Sadly his best years didn't last very long.

[Dan's Brain]

I think Baker's and Kemp's downfalls were linked to each other in a way.

That three-team deal between the Bucks, Cavs, and Sonics was somewhat strange at the time, and neither guy was the same afterwards. They had one decent full season each (97-98), and then the fizzle began.