Amare, Dwight or Oden?

[shadowgrin]

Indy was referring to that badass center, Greg Ostertag.

[Indy]

Dwight is the best rebounder in the group, but that's where it ends. Greg is by far the best defensively. It isn't even close. Amare is by far the best offensively, it isn't even close.

I would have a hard time taking Dwight over Amare or Greg.

I love how you can make such a brash statement notwithstanding the fact that Oden has never played a single minute against an NBA caliber center.

Just say it.

Greg played for Ohio State.

Oden already has the biggest most NBA ready body of the 3 and can bang better then either of them can. Neither Amare or Dwight have shown the ability to body up on somebody and overmatch them physically. Greg Oden did that to every big man in college basketball this year. If you watch Dwight and Amare clips while they were in high school, neither of them even did that at that level.

Dwight and Amare are quicker and more athletic, both are decent shotblockers and can help on a smaller guys, but neither are defensive stoppers of another teams big man, which is why I consider both of them Power Forwards, while Greg is a true Center.

That last part of your post made me laugh, because insert the name Michael instead of Greg and it will remind me of the response I got after the 2000 draft when I said Michael Redd could end up becoming better then any player picked in the first round.

[NovU]

at the moment, no doubt every1 would pick dwight. 22 yrs old proved to be excellent hof quite possibly. a few games where he showed monster performance tells us whats to be ahead of him.

[---]

I would actually have a tough time with choosing between Dwight/Amare. There aren't a whole lot of bigs that can give you 25+ a night and 10 boards, plus Amare's defence looked alot better this season. Amare has a good midrange jumper and looks like that range can probably go a little further. Having a big man who is a monster in the post but can also make jumpers outside the paint, stretching the D, is something every coach would love to have. Big men who are good at the freethrow line are always valuable also.

Dwight doesn't have anywhere near the offensive repertoire of Amare but is a better defender and one of, if not the leagues best rebounder. Dwight has no jumpshot and relies on athleticism, size and strength to score at the moment. He has the potential to be a great scorer but I don't know when/if that will happen. I don't think he is a 25+ PPG guy like Amare. Amare was putting up 20+ points a night in his secod season out of high school. Dwight put up almost 16 a game, but as I said before, it was mostly off his physical tools rather than post skill.

Amare is 24 coming off knee surgery which IMO should be forgotten. He put up 20/10 last season when everyone thought he was done. He is well and truly back.

Dwight is 21 years old and coming off his third season where he put up 17/12, claiming his spot as one of the best bigs in the league.

I really think that when Amare went down for a season people forgot about how good he was before that. Remember when he put up 26/9 on 56% shooting? Remember his rediculous performances against some of the best bigs in the league during the playoffs?

I would take Amare over Dwight at this point.

But overall, I couldn't pass on Oden. Oden will be a better defender than either of these guys, no doubt in my mind. If he works hard and becomes a great scorer, which he could (he's quick, smart, strong, mobile and now ambidextrous), he will be the premiere big man in the league. Oden has just as much, if not more potential to become a better offensive player than Dwight Howard.

I go Oden > Amare > Dwight.

[Anthony15]

I'd go with Dwight simply because he has already established himself as a beast of a basketball player. He's always at the top of the list as far as rebounding and blocking shots. Plus he still has over 15 years left in his career. With an upside like that there is no doubt in my mind he will be the best of the 3.

Second that. Dwight isn't surrounded with a type of talent that Amare has, such as Nash, Matrix, Barbosa that help him be that explosive, while Dwight does everythin by himself. I'm not going to say anything about Oden, because he is yet to prove himself in the NBA.

[Dro]

I'd go with Dwight simply because he has already established himself as a beast of a basketball player. He's always at the top of the list as far as rebounding and blocking shots. Plus he still has over 15 years left in his career. With an upside like that there is no doubt in my mind he will be the best of the 3.

Second that. Dwight isn't surrounded with a type of talent that Amare has, such as Nash, Matrix, Barbosa that help him be that explosive, while Dwight does everythin by himself. I'm not going to say anything about Oden, because he is yet to prove himself in the NBA.

Flawed argument. I could just as easily make the point that Howard has the chance to score more because he is by far the #1 option on Orlando, while the Suns have Nash, Marion, and Barbosa who all take a high volume of shots.

[dan_suth]

^^ To go along with that, one could make the argument that Amare "only" grabs 10 rebounds a game because he has one of the league's better rebounders, Shawn Marion, playing alongside him 35-40 minutes a night as well. I watched that situation very closely - having Marion on my fantasy team the past two years, I noticed very often that sometimes he would pull down 17 boards and Amare would get only 3, and on other nights it could be the other way around. If the Matrix leaves Phoenix this offseason and they don't pick up another star big man, look for Amare's stats to increase even more.

At this point in time, I definitely have to go Amare > Dwight > Oden. Nobody truly knows how great Oden will be yet - I don't care how awesome he was in high school and college, he hasn't banged with the big boys yet. Dwight Howard is an incredible player, but I just have to take Amare.

[NovU]

i guess only time will tell... but seems if amare stays in phx, it wont be easy for him to reach dwight's lvl in success wid fame due to phx's superior roster. especially, when dwight is considered as a franchise player, and amare is considered not-even-close cuz of nash & superb-cos.

meanwhile, oden has a lot to prove and catch up to do if he wants to be best since duncan and honestly i do not know cuz i havent really seen this guy playing. so for me now, dwight would be my go. dwight(SAFE BET!!!) > odeng(DANG or CHA-CHING) > amare(explosive but CAN U WIN ALONE w/o ur cos?)

[1CenT]

Where does Yao Ming fit here? 25/9/2, doesn't see much worst than Amare's #'s....
26 years old, seems old compare to the other 3...

Has he reached his ceiling? I watch his workout with Hakeem.. Man he can really put the ball in the basket.. he just needs to bang harder.... Hook shot left and right hand, drop step, fadeaway, spin move.. 85%+ ft shooter..

If Oden can be as good as him offensively, 12 feet and in.. and shoot in the ~70% in the FT line... he'll be can be a big time player...

Will Yao ever be aggressive enough defensively and on the boards?
He can easily be a 32/14 player... But i remember how poorly he did against the Jazz...

[Sauru]

yao has really shown alot recently in terms of agressivness. i dont think he will ever have the "american agressive nature" but its nice to see him show some real emotion

[The X]

this decision will come down to who can lead their team to title/s & I think that is Greg Oden, so that is why I'd take him....statistically, the two might be better scoring wise, but when it comes to winning, I think Oden will be at the top....

[NovU]

most ppl think oden is significantly better than other bigs in the nba cuz of more potential
but i think a lot of it is hype
a lot of ur givin too much credit sum1 who hasn't played a single game in the nba
and choosin oden over dwight doesn't seem logical idea to me
dwight is only 2years older than greg & i would call it a success if greg could reach current dwight's lvl of dominance in 2 years

[el badman]

And the fact that Oden can get 3 fouls in his first 3 minutes in the summer league might be an indicator too. Okay, it was just his first game, but it's easy to see how his defense could be a question mark during his the first months of the season at least, whether or not he was a superstar in college...

[JT_55]

Why do so many people pick Amare? He's only good because of Nash. Put him with a guy like Rafer Alston and he'll suck.

Dwight all the way.

[shadowgrin]

Most people forget that Amare was good even with Marbury.
We all know Rafer Alston is basically Marbury-Super-Lite.

[JT_55]

That's because Marbury (unlike Alston) is a good PG too. He was good then, but with Nash he's really good. Good enough to be discussed in this topic.

[maes]

And the fact that Oden can get 3 fouls in his first 3 minutes in the summer league might be an indicator too. Okay, it was just his first game, but it's easy to see how his defense could be a question mark during his the first months of the season at least, whether or not he was a superstar in college...

10 fouls in 20 minutes, i think that could be a record.

OTOH, Alridge looked smooth. 26 & 11 + 3 blocks...that's nice even if it's just summer league.

[Dro]

That's because Marbury (unlike Alston) is a good PG too. He was good then, but with Nash he's really good. Good enough to be discussed in this topic.

Good lord, some people have the worst sense of logic...

Look at Amare's progression throughout his career:

Year 1: 14 ppg
Year 2: 20 pgg
Year 3: 26 ppg

Amare would've been a beast whether or not he ever had Nash by his side. And don't forget, Amare barely played with Marbury in his 2nd year. Amare was out several weeks towards the beginning of the season, and Marbury was traded before Amare returned from his injury. Amare's point guards that season were Howard Eisley and Charlie Ward [/b]

[NovU]

i must say i fully agree wid dro
amare's underappreciated cuz of teammates.
a beast was meant to be a beast all along, nash or not, suns or not...
even so, like i said, if he stays in phx, ppl gonna credit nash and cos... never amare and cos.
but then still, i chose dwight cuz i see him as more dominant big figure than amare mainly due to his reboundin skillz & presence on D.
for sure, explosiveness on offensive end, amare's better...
so ppl who like suns style of b-ball, i can c y they chose amare.

[Sauru]

you all can say what you want but to discount the benefit of nash is stupid. also to say amare is only good cause of nash is also stupid. nash would make any of the 3 better. i guess in a few seasons we will get to see how good amare is when he is the number 1 guy in phoenix.

[#12]

Amare seems to have declined a tad since his injury.

declining?????the motherfucker added a jumpshot and is first team all nba

[Andrew]

Nash's ability to get his teammates the ball at the right time is a big reason for the Suns success and benefits guys like Amare greatly but at the end of the day, the player receiving the pass has to finish the play. Nash could feed the ball to Pat Burke for a 13 shots a night but it's unlikely he'd score 20 ppg as Amare does. If we're going to dimiss or penalise a player when making comparisons because they played with a great point guard then there's quite a few great players throughout history you'd need to apply that to, with Karl Malone being a prime example. Playing alongside a great point guard might make their job easier but ultimately their success relies on having the tools to get the job done.

For the moment I'd still be inclined to pick Amare as he's the most established player and he's still young. He was written off by a lot of people before the season began but I'd say he proved them wrong by the season's end. He had the second best season of his career despite only playing around 33 minutes per game and while he at times lacked the explosiveness he demonstrated in the 2005 season he's fair from being the mere role player he was projected to be after last year's lost season. In a couple of years however, I might be inclined to pick Dwight Howard.

It wouldn't be fair to put too much stock in Oden's summer league debut but at the same time I don't think you can really put him up there with Amare and Howard, two players who have been in the NBA a few years and made All-Star teams, just yet. That could change once he makes his proper NBA debut and I suppose his potential makes him an appealing choice as well but for me the choice comes down to the more established NBA players. This could be a very interesting (and close) choice in a few years.

[Gundy]

Amare seems to have declined a tad since his injury.

declining?????the motherfucker added a jumpshot and is first team all nba

I was talking about his explosiveness alone. True, he has shown that he has recovered and he can still jump but he is just not the same as he was a couple of years ago, pre-injury.

[JT_55]

So maybe I phrased what I mean to say wrong. Amare is good without Nash, granted, but his stats (points-wise) are only slightly better that Dwight who doesn't have the benefit of a elite PG (Francis is okay, but definately not as good as Nash).

[Dro]

In the news today:

http://www.azcentral.com/community/scot ... r0708.html

Suspect in hotel death related to Suns All-Star

Kristi Eaton and Paul Coro
The Arizona Republic
Jul. 8, 2007 12:00 AM
Amaré Stoudemire's half brother was identified Saturday as one of five suspects arrested last week in connection with the shooting death of a 27-year-old man in a Scottsdale hotel.

Marwan Williams, 18, was arrested Friday on suspicion of first-degree murder, conspiracy to commit armed robbery with a deadly weapon and narcotic possession or use.

Also arrested and facing similar charges are James Doskocil, 21; Ryan Moore, 22; Gaetonia Nesmith, 27; and Pierre Taylor, 26.




Ian Stenhouse was found dead early Wednesday at Hospitality Suites Resort, 409 N. Scottsdale Road. Shawn Sanders, a Scottsdale police spokeswoman, said the suspects conspired to rob Stenhouse of money and drugs.

Stoudemire's manager, Rodney Rice, said he and Stoudemire would decline to comment until they learned more about the case.

The NBA star's mother, Carrie, and older brother Hazell Jr. are currently incarcerated. Carrie Stoudemire is serving three years for drunken driving, and Hazell Stoudemire Jr. is imprisoned in New York for narcotics and sexual-abuse crimes.

It's remarkable that Amare has stayed out of trouble considering the behaviors of those closest to him. It's very sad...Amare actually brought his mother and Marwan to Phoenix as soon as he was signed to get them out of trouble. He probably gives them whatever they ask for, and they take it for granted like they do.