The Most Overrated Player in the NBA?

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Postby magius on Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:12 am

marcus camby. not because i think he's a bad player, i think he's a very good player, and any team would love to have him, but because if someone gives him the dpoy over someone like td among others I think that is overrating. giving the dpoy to a team with defense like denver is like giving the mvp to a player on a team with a 500 record.... it shouldn't happen.

kobe is only overrated if you consider him the best player in the nba - not the best individual player mind you, not the most talented - the best PLAYER.

that said its ridiculous to say that just anyone (or vc) can average what he is.... what he has been doing has been pretty special, if just anyone could average 35ppg i'm sure it would've been done more often by stars on bad teams in the past, same with the 81 pts. saying he ONLY averaged 35 ppg is like saying rodman only averaged 18 rpg, or like saying nash only averages 11 apg. after all, name me one statistical category, other than assists, that magic led in during the reg season.

i think, considering the coverage, parker is a little overrated as well. just a little. 50% of the time manu is overrated too ;)
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Postby jonthefon on Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:28 am

Sure, Dirk chokes in the playoffs, but he isn't overrated. That's the argument. If he were overrated, he would've picked up perhaps an extra MVP and also be voted in properly as an All-Star starter.
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Postby magius on Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:33 am

dirk is our generation's karl malone.... or maybe that's kg? or maybe dirk's our generation's barkley, and kg malone. either way i don't think you can say they're overrated based on the mvp's because, after all, the mvp is based on the reg season, and you cannot dispute that dirk was great during the reg season.
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Postby -Young Buck- on Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:36 am

Its pretty sad when the Mavs 28th rookie pick scored more points then their Superstar in a playoff elimination game. Even if it was only by 2 points.

Dirk 38 minutes, 8 PTS, 2/13 FG, 0/6 3PA
Ager 12 minutes, 10 PTS, 3/4 FG, 2/2 3PA

Not only that but Dirk came in 6th on his team in scoring that game. Dirk did manage to give out 2 assists with 3 turn overs. DOH!.

You know sometimes i think its a blessing that the Bucks traded Dirk after they drafted him, before he could become their cancer. Sure they are in the playoffs every year, but that doesnt mean a damn when he chokes constantly and gives your team no hope. I would rather be rebuilding and trying to find a player that will eventually carry our team, then sit year after year putting my faith in someone who cant deliver.
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Postby jonthefon on Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:43 am

Blessing in disguise? Hahahahahahaha. Oh boy. Dallas did enough "rebuilding" in the 90's (i.e. scrape together 10 wins a season), and they found the franchise player in Nowitzki. The Bucks haven't gone anywhere since they traded for TRACTOR TRAYLOR. One Conference Finals appearance and a series of first-round losses? Sure, Michael Redd could be the "rebuilding step" as could (possibly) be Andrew Bogut. It's a young side, so someone can pop up any time soon. But I don't think Dirk choking (currently) is too bad a thing. The Big Three made basketball a bigger sport in the big D and the current Mavs are going well right now, so acquiring someone like Dirk for so little is a good thing...to a point.

EDIT: I forgot to address the Ager outscoring Dirk thing. I'll give you a point on that one, but I've said enough about how he can't step it up.
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Postby maes on Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:33 am

Some of the blame for Dirk choking goes to the coaches.

I was reading an SI from maybe around Feb, about how unstoppable the Mavs were. The coaching staff basically said they worked on hard on Nowitzki to pass the ball more. The coaches said when facing a smaller guy or doubled, Nowitizki's tendency was to just shoot over both guys, but they forced him not to do that and pass out to his teammates instead.

Well when playoffs came and GS doubled Dirk, guess what he did...what he was told to do for 82 games by his coaches.
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Postby The X on Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:11 am

I always thought Ben Wallace was overrated in his time with Detroit, maybe not in his first year or so there though....he went from grossly underrated with Washington & Orlando to overrated with Detroit....

I think Billups is a little overrated too....

I've always thought Carter was overrated from the moment he entered the league & beat Paul Pierce in the ROY race....

I use to think T-Mac & Kobe were overrated, but over time that opinion has changed....

unfortunately Wade got a tad overrated....he's a great player, but as is the way with bandwagons, they can run away a little....

as mentioned earlier, Iverson is overrated (outside of a couple of very good seasons in Philly)....if he made his teammates better, then he would be deserving of the accolades he receives....

I've always thought Marbury was most overrated in league, but he's not overrated now, everyone knows he is what he is....

I think Rashard Lewis is overrated....

I'm sure there is lots more, as majority of players are either slightly overrated or underrated around the league IMHO....
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Postby NNpF on Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:54 am

I actually have to agree the Vince is quite overrated. I wouldn't say the most overrated player in the league but too many poeple think he can save a bad team because he's that good.

The thing is he can be "that" good but it makes me so frustrated when a player with his quickness, athleticism and ability to finish in almost every way possible falls in love with shooting three pointers 5 feet past the line.

He posts a player up and instead of making a move to the basket he fades away from it. And yes he has the ability to make these shots but not consistently.

Almost every single game where the Nets have been successful against better teams Vince took the ball to the basket from start to finish. That would eventually cause players to back off and then you can start shooting jump shots. He may be getting older but he's wasting the abilities he has and is turning himself into a jump shooter who sometimes takes the ball the basket where it should be the other way around.

I don't think Dirk is overrated. His play during the regular season was spectacular and worth MVP consideration. The Golden State series exposed the fact he has no low post game because we all know Dirk struggles against smaller but quicker players because he won't post them up and he can't drive by them so all he can do is shoot more and more.

I can't exactly tell you who I think is the most overrated player but I agree with Sauru that since joining Denver Iverson's game looks to have taken a step down.
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Postby --- on Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:07 am

Tracy McGrady is the most overated SHOOTER out of all the "superstars" and is a totally lazy ass bum.


Lazy? Because of his eyes? Your an idiot.

When Tracy is healthy he's a top 5 player in the league.
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Postby wade_03 on Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:48 am

I think Kevin Durant and Greg Oden are going to be the most overrated players in the NBA.
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Postby BigKaboom2 on Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:49 am

Drex wrote::wall:


:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:
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Postby magius on Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:02 am

BigKaboom2 wrote:
Drex wrote::wall:


:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:


:doh: :crazyeyes: :doh: :crazyeyes: :doh: :crazyeyes: :doh: :crazyeyes: :doh: :crazyeyes: :doh: :crazyeyes: :doh: :crazyeyes: :doh: :crazyeyes: :doh: :crazyeyes:
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Re: The Most Overrated Player in the NBA?

Postby TSquared on Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:09 am

BigKaboom2 wrote:
ajam wrote:Errr...wrong...big time.


Errr...arrogant...big time.


Err..funny...big time
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Postby BigKaboom2 on Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:54 am

So funny, in fact, that you were inspired to copy the exact format of my post.

Good to see you're now making constructive posts after your "issues" of the past few days. :roll:
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Postby The X on Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:56 pm

wade_03 wrote:I think Kevin Durant and Greg Oden are going to be the most overrated players in the NBA.

you're wrong as they are not even in the NBA....and prospects & rookies do get hyped up a lot based on their potential & upside to be a future star....so I definitely wouldn't call them overrated....
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Postby Sauru on Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:29 pm

ajam wrote:
Sauru wrote:there are alot of overrated players in the nba and sometimes i think a player gets overpaid but then they step up, like boozer did this year. this season i think rashard will get more money than he is worth but i could be wrong again.


right now i think the most overrated player in the nba is iverson. i thought at one time he was good but even at his best i feel he was overrated.


If Iverson is overated, which has one of the best defensive games in the NBA....you must REALLY think Kobe is overated.



kobe is not overrated, he has actually done something with his career. what has iverson done other than make a few highlights? people arwe all about iverson yet this man needs to shoot constantly to score. the only way he is getting his is if he takes him team out of the game. now i am not saying he is a bad player, he is just highly overrated. shit people were talking like denver was the team to beat when they got AI, look how well that turned out for them.


also dirk is really overrated too and i might have to agree, infact i do agree, that he is the most overrated player in the game. the guy is a bum in the playoffs and thats where it counts.

saying oden and durant will be over rated is flat out wrong. no one(aside from lame fanboys) will expect them to dominate the league this season. you will here all about thier potential and that will be hyped but by no means will they be overrated.
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Postby RKO on Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:32 pm

Dirk Nowitzki. He is a great player, well lets face it, he can only shoot when he has a good defender on him, he cant drive in, only at times if Cuban decides to pay him more...but Dirk is way overrated, everybody saw that in the 1st Round of this years playoffs...he cant finish carrying his team, and if the Mavs didnt have Josh Howard...they wouldnt have had those 67 wins this past season..
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Re: 1

Postby -Young Buck- on Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:11 pm

jonthefon wrote:Blessing in disguise? Hahahahahahaha. Oh boy. Dallas did enough "rebuilding" in the 90's (i.e. scrape together 10 wins a season), and they found the franchise player in Nowitzki. The Bucks haven't gone anywhere since they traded for TRACTOR TRAYLOR. One Conference Finals appearance and a series of first-round losses? Sure, Michael Redd could be the "rebuilding step" as could (possibly) be Andrew Bogut. It's a young side, so someone can pop up any time soon. But I don't think Dirk choking (currently) is too bad a thing. The Big Three made basketball a bigger sport in the big D and the current Mavs are going well right now, so acquiring someone like Dirk for so little is a good thing...to a point.

EDIT: I forgot to address the Ager outscoring Dirk thing. I'll give you a point on that one, but I've said enough about how he can't step it up.


All im saying is while the mavs get behind Dirk to be the leader of their team, they will get to the playoffs many years, but i really doubt they will win a championship. He is a cancer, and the mavs fans will feel terrible year after year unless the Mavs decide to put someone else as the teams leader. I would rather have my team playing the lottery draft, finding a superstar within 8 or so years rather then going through a 8 years of Dirk choking in the playoffs year after year, and my team failing expectations.
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Postby Sauru on Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:27 pm

dirk is a great number 2, get a go to guy in the clutch and the mavs are golden. i wonder if cuban ever has nightmares about not paying nash and signing that lazy shit that likes to pretend he is an nba center
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Postby Its_asdf on Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:33 pm

So funny, in fact, that you were inspired to copy the exact format of my post.


Isn't it kind of ironic that you copied the format of his post to mock him in the first place? I know TSquared's an idiot, but sometimes you guys have to get off people's nuts and leave them alone.
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Postby Andrew on Sun Jun 10, 2007 4:31 pm

ajam wrote:JT_55,

I'd rather have someone like Magic then Jordan, you get more from Magic then MJ.


Well, you'd certainly get more assists from Magic than MJ more often than not but I would disagree that you'd get more on the whole. You make it sound like MJ was a one dimensional ballhog who succeeded only because of the help of the league and the referees, which has become a popular school of thought amongst some people but that certainly doesn't make it right. That's another topic altogether though.

I think that player comparisons are somewhat misleading when it comes to touting a player as overrated. A player's flaws and shortcomings don't make him overrated unless they are constantly being glossed over or he's touted as being far better than he could reasonably and objectively considered to be. Because "overrated" is such a subjective term, pretty much every noteworthy star player in the league is overrated by someone (or a certain group of fans/sportswriters) at some point or in some way.

Vince Carter doesn't really strike me as someone who's overrated because he's also widely criticised at the same time as being acknowledged as a star player in the league. Not many people who aren't Carter fans would nominate him as the best player in the league or similar status that he could be suggested as being unworthy of.

In contrast, I'd say players like Manu Ginobili and Eddy Curry are more overrated much more often than someone like Vince Carter or anyone considered to be amongst the NBA's elite. Ginobili strikes me as a really good player, the kind who might make an All-Star team or two when he's having a noteworthy year but a lot of people would (or have) pegged him as being much better than that. Curry's the same this past season; he showed improvement and had a career year but I personally wouldn't say he's become the new Shaq or has established himself as the dominant centre in the league for years to come as has been suggested. He still has flaws and shortcomings that are being glossed over due to his improvements in other areas.

It isn't what a player does or doesn't do that decides whether he's overrated or not; it's how he's subsequently judged, rated and ranked. To that end, I'd say players who are on the fringe of superstardom or are up-and-coming players are more likely candidates as being overrated than established stars who will always be overrated (and for the matter, underrated) by certain contingents within the NBA fanbase.
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Postby BigKaboom2 on Sun Jun 10, 2007 4:45 pm

Its_asdf wrote:
So funny, in fact, that you were inspired to copy the exact format of my post.


Isn't it kind of ironic that you copied the format of his post to mock him in the first place? I know TSquared's an idiot, but sometimes you guys have to get off people's nuts and leave them alone.


I wasn't mocking him - the original post was by ajam, and I found the beginning of it to be rather obnoxious for a topic that wasn't at all clear-cut. TSquared decided to insert himself into the discussion for reasons I cannot understand.
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Postby Gundy on Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:01 pm

Quote:
Tracy McGrady is the most overated SHOOTER out of all the "superstars" and is a totally lazy ass bum.


Lazy? Because of his eyes? Your an idiot.


He might be basing that statement on the fact that T-Mac had said in the past that he doesn't always give 100%. That doesn't mean he's lazy,it means he's honest. I'm willing to bet that several superstars don't try their hardest night in and night out.

Overrated? Ray Allen comes to mind. I might be completely wrong (haven't been paying much attention to the NBA) but he seems pretty soft to me. Sure, he can score with the best of them, but he shoots too damn much. I always thought of him as more concerned about how his jumper looks than actually being focused on putting the ball in the hole.
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Postby Lean on Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:41 pm

About Vince Carter, I think his play is rather inconsistent.
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Postby ixcuincle on Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:34 pm

magius wrote:dirk is our generation's karl malone.... or maybe that's kg? or maybe dirk's our generation's barkley, and kg malone. either way i don't think you can say they're overrated based on the mvp's because, after all, the mvp is based on the reg season, and you cannot dispute that dirk was great during the reg season.


I read an article once from I think the Dallas Morning News , it pointed out Dirk actually had better statistics last year than this year. He was awarded the MVP this year simply for being the best player on the best team in the NBA.

Dirk's Statistics for you to compare http://www.nba.com/playerfile/dirk_nowi ... stats.html

Personally I thought the MVP should have gone to Nash again , 3-peat!
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