Lazy LeBron: The "Next" Vince Carter?

[Its_asdf]

I see your point Cy. LeBron is a great, in fact, hall-of-fame player if he continues at the pace he's going.

However, I don't think he can be compared with the previous greats that dominated nearly every single game they played in.

While great in his own respect, he still has a long way to go to.

[BiGrEd819]

omg... i thought the link was an article to some inside source...its only a stupid post on a forum someone making their own speculations on one game he attended and everyone is suddenly getting worked up over how lazy he has become. 27.3ppg 6.7 rbnds 6.8 assts...what a fucking lazyass right? im not even a fan of his and im offended

[maes]

Heh, reminds me of one of the best scenes from Airplane:

Roger Murdock: But just remember, my name is ROGER MURDOCK. I'm an airline pilot.

Joey: I think you're the greatest, but my dad says you don't work hard enough on defense. And he says that lots of times, you don't even run down court. And that you don't really try... except during the playoffs.

Roger Murdock: The hell I don't. LISTEN KID. I've been hearing that crap ever since I was at UCLA. I'm out there busting my buns every night. Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes.

[cyanide]

omg... i thought the link was an article to some inside source...its only a stupid post on a forum someone making their own speculations on one game he attended and everyone is suddenly getting worked up over how lazy he has become. 27.3ppg 6.7 rbnds 6.8 assts...what a fucking lazyass right? im not even a fan of his and im offended

Maybe you should read a little more than make your own speculations.

[shadowgrin]

Roger Murdock: But just remember, my name is ROGER MURDOCK. I'm an airline pilot.

Joey: I think you're the greatest, but my dad says you don't work hard enough on defense. And he says that lots of times, you don't even run down court. And that you don't really try... except during the playoffs.

Roger Murdock: The hell I don't. LISTEN KID. I've been hearing that crap ever since I was at UCLA. I'm out there busting my buns every night. Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes.

Kareem's the man.
He will always be a better actor than Shaq, Fox, Ewing, Bradlet, LJ, Barkley
Jordan, Ray Allen, or Wilt doesn't even come close to Kareem's acting abilities.

[Gundy]

People will find any fucking thing to bitch about. I'm dissapointed in lebron's performance this season thus far cause he simply isn't playing as good as last season but jesus...give the guy a fucking break. What should he be averaging for him not to be considered lazy? Lebron is suffering from the kobe haterism disease. No one says shit about him, writes an article or makes a post on these forums about him anymore when he does well. Soon as he slumps a little..we have a brand new article and forum thread about it.

Andrew's post put it best as usual.

Exactly what I was thinking. This is just a case of people making an issue of something that is not even an issue just for the sake trying to make some unique discovery. What more do you want him to do?

[PAMPERS]

Roger Murdock: But just remember, my name is ROGER MURDOCK. I'm an airline pilot.

Joey: I think you're the greatest, but my dad says you don't work hard enough on defense. And he says that lots of times, you don't even run down court. And that you don't really try... except during the playoffs.

Roger Murdock: The hell I don't. LISTEN KID. I've been hearing that crap ever since I was at UCLA. I'm out there busting my buns every night. Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes.

Kareem's the man.
He will always be a better actor than Shaq, Fox, Ewing, Bradlet, LJ, Barkley
Jordan, Ray Allen, or Wilt doesn't even come close to Kareem's acting abilities.

But Ray Allen made out with a hot chic in his film, he is the only Nba player to do that!

[shadowgrin]

I'm talking about acting, not punani.
Kareem appeared in comedy and action, that shows his versatility as an "actor".

[Chris_23]

Looks like James -finally- started listening to all that whining regarding his bad jumpshot game. He's destroying Pacers down below, whoo!

[cklitsie]

Owns the league? He has been pwned by Knicks. And Bobcats this season. 'nought said. LeBron definetly does not own the league. Yes, he is the best player of the Cavs but to -own the league- you do need to do alot, alot more.

You took my comment literally. I was just saying he's still top of the NBA even while accused of being lazy.

And if you don't remember any Lebron games then that's your memory failing you or you just didn't see them. I remember a game late regular season 05-06 Lebron vs. Wade. It was kinda like the Kidd vs. Nash battle, except they didn't have 2OT's to further dramatize the duel.
Then there's the playoff series vs. Washington (basically Lebron vs. Arenas). It wasn't on the Magic vs. Bird level obviously, but I'm pretty sure it'll be shown on NBA TV or ESPN Classic some years from now, showing some of the young Lebron.

[Czarny]

I don't know why nobody likes Carter :/ He's a really good player doing rebounding stealing assisting and stuff. If NjN sign a big man that will dominate near the basket, they will be NBA Champs. GO NJN!

[Jackal]

Perhaps no one likes him because he pussified and just stop competing. In the NBA, where it's all about competing, a person who just ceases to compete is usually not exactly the type of person you look up to.

People still look up to Garnett, because he doesn't just say, ya know what, fuck this, I'm just gonna not play hard.

That fanboy shit won't fly here, go to a NJN board if most of your posts are going to follow the same tone of this post.

[hova-]

I do not get the point. People say he does not show the will and he does not show a working ethic. At first I ask myself how do you see this except a player does really "give up" on the court ?
Second one is, did any player show his working ethic one the court. MJ perhaps, he is a legend. Magic and Bird, okay. But lets look at Tim Duncan. That guy does for me not show a special kind of working ethic. He is pretty successfull though.
James´ stats are among the best any player in the NBA is putting on the table. He is not a natural born scorer, that is why many say Carmelo will be better than LBJ at times. That might be right, but I think the more complete player will be LeBron. Just imagine LeBron having some teammates around him who are above average. Or in shape. Or both. Melo does have support at the moment. Miller dishing out 20 in a game for example. Camby with one double double after another. When the Cavs role player find their shape again or maybe the management just adds better players, I think LeBron will be able to make something happen in this league.

And about memorable moments:
The series vs the Wizards was memorable. When he hit that buzzer beater for example.
But I have to admit that I cannot remember many more plays by LeBron. Just not like Wade or even Dirk. (dagger vs Grizzlies, 50 points vs Suns)

[Czarny]

Perhaps no one likes him because he pussified and just stop competing.

Yeah. So he must be another MJ or something like he's 6 scorer in NBA without hard playing. Look I don't get it. Vince is one of the best scorers in NBA also he's sats are good so why u think he's not playing hard?

[cklitsie]

He even admitted it himself, when he wanted to be in Toronto no more, he stopped giving everything on the court.

[Jackal]

Vince is one of the best scorers in NBA also he's sats are good so why u think he's not playing hard?

Did you entirely miss the part I spoke about Toronto?

[Andrew]

On the other hand, what Andrew said about higher expectations could be true as well. It's also interesting to know whether LeBron still has more potential left, or 27/7/7 is a realistic career average?

I think he's going to have some more seasons similar to his 2005/2006 campaign but as I said before some people place too much stock in his age. My guess is that there'll be some fluctuation in his scoring average but throughout his prime his rebounding and assist numbers will remain fairly static.

[Czarny]

Did you entirely miss the part I spoke about Toronto?

Carter in Toronto is a history. He don't want to play there, so what's the point? When I don't want to be with the team becouse is pissing me off/rude to me/ bad or something other, I'm trying to find another one. Also KG should find another team. If he stay in Minnesota he will never get the NBA Champ. That would be pity. Great players should get great trophies. Now its New Jersey Nets and Carter is playing better and better.

[hova-]

Did you entirely miss the part I spoke about Toronto?

Carter in Toronto is a history. He don't want to play there, so what's the point? When I don't want to be with the team becouse is pissing me off/rude to me/ bad or something other, I'm trying to find another one. Also KG should find another team. If he stay in Minnesota he will never get the NBA Champ. That would be pity. Great players should get great trophies. Now its New Jersey Nets and Carter is playing better and better.

Jackal is just completely right ... this "fanboy shit" or whatever he called it is not really cool. You should at least be objective enough to say that the way Carter demanded a trade and stopped playing pretending injuries is not the way a sportsman deals with it.
Also Carter is not anywhere near one of the leagues topstars. He always needs someone to be the leader for him although his skills are leader-like. But you need the character for that. You need to step up and carry along your teammates.
Carter showed in Toronto that he is one of the better scorers in the league, but a superstar does more. That is an old topic and you should really accept this one.
I could name about 15 players who are more important for their team than Carter.
No disrespect, I have never been a Carter-hater. Except the trade thingy there is nothing I do not like about him. But I am realistic, thats why I say there are a lot of better players in the league, although Vince pulls moves that make me say "wicked sick".

[maes]

I think he's going to have some more seasons similar to his 2005/2006 campaign but as I said before some people place too much stock in his age. My guess is that there'll be some fluctuation in his scoring average but throughout his prime his rebounding and assist numbers will remain fairly static.

I agree with you on this. People have very unrealistic expectations of LeBron because he produced right away rather than needing any learning curve like Kobe or McGrady.

There was an article in SI asking some anonymous scouts how they expected LeBron to improve in the next few years...one scout said "there isn't much to improve on ... maybe his left-handed dribbling." Basically, the guy is very close to a polished, finished product already.

[BIG GREEN]

By lebron's standards..this is a statistical slump year so far. After the all-star game he's gonna rip off the slacks and end the season averaging more or less 30 ppg. I don't judge lebron by his personal stats....if he can win atleast two championships and a MVP..that will be enough for me to name him one of the greatest.

[Andrew]

I agree with you on this. People have very unrealistic expectations of LeBron because he produced right away rather than needing any learning curve like Kobe or McGrady.

There was an article in SI asking some anonymous scouts how they expected LeBron to improve in the next few years...one scout said "there isn't much to improve on ... maybe his left-handed dribbling." Basically, the guy is very close to a polished, finished product already.

Exactly. I'd say that as his career goes on the mental aspect of his game will most likely improve and he'll perform better in certain situations, making the right decisions and utilising his talent as effectively as possible, but ultimately that won't have too much of an effect on his stats.

[Chris_23]

I agree with you on this. People have very unrealistic expectations of LeBron because he produced right away rather than needing any learning curve like Kobe or McGrady.

There was an article in SI asking some anonymous scouts how they expected LeBron to improve in the next few years...one scout said "there isn't much to improve on ... maybe his left-handed dribbling." Basically, the guy is very close to a polished, finished product already.

Exactly. I'd say that as his career goes on the mental aspect of his game will most likely improve and he'll perform better in certain situations, making the right decisions and utilising his talent as effectively as possible, but ultimately that won't have too much of an effect on his stats.

Yeah, I have to agree here. People sort of expect that if a young player comes to the league, he'll jump like Nash jumped from 97 to now as an MVP. But the truth is, not many players really end up improving that much. It may -just- be that LBJ is already in his prime as an athlete and to improve further from there takes what's there mentally. And how strong he really is mentally none of us really knows yet, since we have not seen him claim strong victories or suffered really painful defeats yet.

Nevertheless he is a franchise player and I don't see anything changing that. Such an allaround and athletic play is really good for any team out there (LBJ is a sort of player who would be useful for any team in the league I imagine, if not as a leader then as a roleplayer)

I don't know why nobody likes Carter :/ He's a really good player doing rebounding stealing assisting and stuff. If NjN sign a big man that will dominate near the basket, they will be NBA Champs. GO NJN!

NBA is a league, or more especially NBA fans are a community that takes anything negative really harshly. If a player wants to leave, he should not just stop giving the effort. Many remember that and it may easily be one of the main things people do not -like- him that much.

But don't say nobody likes Carter. Alot of people do, I know I do as well. not a fan or anything, but he's fun to watch. And he's been voted as starter for all-star game numerous times so that also says alot.

About -giving the effort-, it has been damaging alot of NBA players in the past. And will damage players in the future who put their wellbeing ahead of their teams. That's why Kevin Garnett will be a hall of famer in the future, why Kevin Garnett is so loved by fans and media, he is willing to bite the bullet and continue fighting as a part of Timberwolves team no matter what happens. Sure, he'd like management to do better, get better players around him since Kevin Garnett is simply the best "roleplaying" star in the league and needs someone else to run the show to be at his best, but no matter what, he gives his best effort day after day.

Anyways, I was glad, even though disappointed with the way Carter handled it, that he ended up with the Nets. Nets backcourt is really devastatingly beautiful right now. Sadly just not that succesful.

[sdot_thadon]

Agreed Vince hung judgement over his own head with that crap. Doesn't take away from his skill, but maybe being a guy who packs it in does take away from his greatness.

As for young Bron, at 21 he's done some things that other "stars" have yet to do in 10-12 year careers. Doing the unexpected can really inflate people's expectations. Mj said one of the greatest challenges of his career was to continue meeting expectations of the fans.

How does a Lebron top last year? Not many ways he can do that aside from maybe averaging a triple double, or increasing his outside shooting %, perhaps decrease his turnovers? He had a MVP worthy year last season with a inexperienced squad.

This season his performance is slightly below last year's. I see that he plays the game a bit easier this time around, conserving energy? And that his teammates matter alot more this season, so he's not just dominating the ball for the entire game. What's amazing is this team looks good with him doing a little less, I'd trade individual stats for team success anyday.

[Weiland]

Agreed Vince hung judgement over his own head with that crap. Doesn't take away from his skill, but maybe being a guy who packs it in does take away from his greatness.

As for young Bron, at 21 he's done some things that other "stars" have yet to do in 10-12 year careers. Doing the unexpected can really inflate people's expectations. Mj said one of the greatest challenges of his career was to continue meeting expectations of the fans.

How does a Lebron top last year? Not many ways he can do that aside from maybe averaging a triple double, or increasing his outside shooting %, perhaps decrease his turnovers? He had a MVP worthy year last season with a inexperienced squad.

This season his performance is slightly below last year's. I see that he plays the game a bit easier this time around, conserving energy? And that his teammates matter alot more this season, so he's not just dominating the ball for the entire game. What's amazing is this team looks good with him doing a little less, I'd trade individual stats for team success anyday.

EXACTLY!!!