MVP Watch Thread

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Flash, Barbosa is a very good defender. Your right about running an offence though, he isn't so great at that. But defending is one of his strengths.

[Zoom]

Barbosa is a talented scorer. As Matt and Flite_23 have stated, he's just not a PG. He's a SG in a PG body.

[Flash 3]

Flash, Barbosa is a very good defender. Your right about running an offence though, he isn't so great at that. But defending is one of his strengths.

Was only talking about his offense and not his defense.

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My bad, that was for Matt

[Matt]

Barbosa couldn't guard a tree if he was tree-huggin hippie.

[maes]

Not exactly on topic, but Jason Kidd is very close to averaging a triple double (14 - 8.5 - 9.0). I wonder if he can keep that up, especially the 8.5 rpg as a point guard.

[Its_asdf]

Vince Carter anyone? He's hoping to cash in this season, and it also helps to have their second leading scorer sitting on the injured list.

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maes and Its_asdf, who do you think is more important out of the duo of Kidd and Carter? Or are they important on their own rights?

maes: I expect his rebounds to go down and even out to maybe 7 per game once Jefferson returns. It's still remarkable how many boards he averages. alst season he averaged 7.3... I never knew that haha... so maybe he may be able to break his career high of 7.4 a game set two years ago...

EDIT: On a seperate note... Kidd broke the 8000 mark for assists. He's not 7th all time.

[CMJ3]

I think Melo deserves to be apart of that list now aswell. Hes having a great season so far and the nuggets arent doing so bad, they just beat the heat.

[BIG GREEN]

I invite everyone to note LeBron's defensive improvements. Alot of focus was made last year about how he lacked D..check it out. It's good to see joe johnson up there..carrying his team on his shoulders..but i dont think the hawks will keep up.

[Raps13]

Chris Bosh no? Call me a homer but who is going to argue with the games he's been playing (Roughly what 24ppg and 15rpg), he's sinking the shots he needs to and they one's he shouldnt be. His D has also improved and is much more aggressive. Now if only I could say the same about the rest of the Raptors

[volsey]

I invite everyone to note LeBron's defensive improvements. Alot of focus was made last year about how he lacked D..check it out. It's good to see joe johnson up there..carrying his team on his shoulders..but i dont think the hawks will keep up.

Yea I've definately noticed it. It looks like he puts alot more effort and enthusiasm into his Defense, good to see.

[[C][B]#4]

Raps13, Chris Bosh is having a great start to the season but it's a matter of our team not doing well. 2-5 isn't good.

I think Kidd should be right up there too. He's been pretty underappreciated since he had microfracture surgery, but 2 triple doubles in the first few weeks of the season, I think he's right up there on that list.

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NBA.com Second Player's Rankings

I have decided to link you guys to the articles, even if you don't need the link, and I will update my thread every week on Mondays as per usual. Hope you enjoy and these articles bring some good old discussion! But no flaming allowed!

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Melo looks like he's ready to be put up there. Should go for 30/5/3 against the Magic tonight

[CMJ3]

Hmmm, they didnt put him up there because he was ejected and the nuggets went 0-3
They are now 3-3 (better than KG's team) and Melo is averaging 30PPG. This is rigged.

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Do I detect a little hostility from CMJ?

Don't worry man, Melo will get his props soon enough! But to be quite honest, I think KGs team is worse than Denver's.

[Raps13]

Raps13, Chris Bosh is having a great start to the season but it's a matter of our team not doing well. 2-5 isn't good.

Agreed, which is why I cant speak as highly as of the rest of the Raptors. Now if we 5-2 it would be a different story

[Chris_23]

People shouldn't forget Steve Nash here. Only reason why he's in the mud currently is because he can't help his team win and fulfil the potential, but I believe that will change at some point. He started the season off individually really well though (and by that I mean really great shooting percentage and stats), but the team was losing strong.

But anyways, Yao Ming is doing really strong currently but I doubt that he'd take the MVP even if he continues current perfomance. King James is doing very well though he is literally the most -valuable- player he doesn't have that title edge yet.

In both cases, Yao and LBJ, alot depends on team perfomance. Alot alot.

And don't count out Kobe Bryant who's currently shooting not just better than ever before in his career, but better by 5% in average shooting with 52% accuracy in game (a treat not seen by shooting guard leader in the league for ages). While his main trademark, the points, are low, it's with a goal to try and win games with teamwork. If Kobe pulls off a strong winning campaign and gets up his assists and rebounds, you have a strong contender there.

[volsey]

You definately need Jkidd on there, 15.7 ppg, 9.3 apg, 8.40 rpg, and they're 5-3.

Chris 23, the way Kobe's playing is better for the team compared to last year. But even if his team gets 55 wins, I don't think he'll get MVP over LeBron or Yoa with 24-5-5.

[Zoom]

And don't count out Kobe Bryant who's currently shooting not just better than ever before in his career, but better by 5% in average shooting with 52% accuracy in game (a treat not seen by shooting guard leader in the league for ages). While his main trademark, the points, are low, it's with a goal to try and win games with teamwork. If Kobe pulls off a strong winning campaign and gets up his assists and rebounds, you have a strong contender there.

True, his FG % is up so I'm excited that he seems to be picking the right shots.... but more of the reason why his point average isn't up is because he's still recovering from injury. He's still gonna take till January before he's back to the old Kobe.

[theflash02]

BAH!! KB8 always gets nominated for MVP because of his BALLHOGGINGness.. which allows him to score more..

IF LEBRON, TMAC, And the other SUPERSTARS start BALLHOGGING like what KOBE does.. They'll gonna be nominated each year for MVP.. HELL.. Those guys might even win it!!!

[Chris_23]

BAH!! KB8 always gets nominated for MVP because of his BALLHOGGINGness.. which allows him to score more..

IF LEBRON, TMAC, And the other SUPERSTARS start BALLHOGGING like what KOBE does.. They'll gonna be nominated each year for MVP.. HELL.. Those guys might even win it!!!

Being nominated is one thing, actually winning it entirely another.

MVP is and has been mostly about helping your team win. My bet is on leading players from whatever top three teams there will be in the end of the season. I could have brought out more but I don't think more is needed to make a point really. The only expection in last twenty years was Michael Jordan who won MVP when his team finished the regular season in eight position. While controversial, it is hard to argue 35 points per game with six assists and rebounds per game, three steals per game, 53% shooting average in his fourth year in the league (following another excellent season a year before). Such statistics are currently well beyond any individual perfomer we have in the league right now, so my bet is on one player from the top three teams.

1985 - Bird (1st Team)
1986 - Bird (1st Team)
1987 - Johnson (1st Team)
1988 - Jordan (8th Team) (!!!)
1989 - Johnson (2nd Team)
1990 - Johnson (1st Team)
1991 - Jordan (2nd Team)
1992 - Jordan (2nd Team)
1993 - Barkley (1st Team)
1994 - Olajuwon (2nd Team)
1995 - Robinson (1st Team)
1996 - Jordan (1st Team)
1997 - Malone (2nd Team)
1998 - Jordan (2nd Team)
1999 - Malone (2nd Team)
2000 - O'Neal (1st Team)
2001 - Iverson (2nd Team)
2002 - Duncan (2nd Team)
2003 - Duncan (2nd Team)
2004 - Garnett (2nd Team)
2005 - Nash (1st Team)
2006 - Nash (3rd Team)

So really, if a player aims to win MVP without getting his team into top three, the perfomance must really be quite stellar. Season is young so it's hard to predict at this moment.

The two players who'd be able to contend for MVP without reaching top three teams are Kobe Bryant and LeBron James. It is interesting that Michael won his first MVP in his fourth year in the league as well.

But it might be hard to reach the MVP award without truly stellar perfomance and neither of those two players are in that level right now. Which is why my money is on whoever brings their team to top three with a great valuable perfomance.

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MJ basically dominated individually and I take it his supporting cast wasn't very spectacular... he still helped the Bulls make the playoffs.

These days though, there are plenty of players who do good, no one is really higher than anyone else by too much in terms of individual performance. The main measuring stick has to be team performance. If you lead your team to the top seed or one of the top seeds, you will be considered. Obviously, the player needs to have a big impact on their team mates too.

With Kobe, love him or hate him, you need to admit that he carried the Lakers on his back last season much like Michael back in 88. His stats and acheivements from last year are still mind blowing... maybe he did hog it a bit but if no one on his team was ready to step up, he was basically forced to. And think of it this way... not many players can do that... maybe for a number of game sbut certainly not for the whole season. It takes someone special to be able to consistently lead their team.

He didn't win it last season because there were plenty of guys who were up there in terms of leading their actual teams and also doing well individually... The people who voted probably thought that the other guys were more worthy of the award. Although I wanted Kobe to win it, I have to say Steve Nash took up a big burden. His stats aren't jaw dropping as Kobe's but his impact on all of his team mates is noticable.

So theflash02, what you're saying abotu Kobe is really unfair. Kobe was forced to do what he did last season. He's been a hog but will always be sort of a hog because that's what makes him great. You need to understand that if star players don't dare to attack and take chances, they aren't going to be great. Kobe backed himself up by actually performing well. Kobe's team was not as great as the other teams that finished ahead of them... that's why he scored more.

Chris_23 is right... even if Kobe is nominated, the people who vote determine the award getter. It is good that they look at everything and not just individual stats. However, if Kobe won the MVP last season, it would have been easily justified. And no theflash02, it's not because of Kobe's ball hogging.

[CMJ3]

Melo4MVP 6 straight 30+ games plus his rebounding and assists are up. Hes gotta be in that list now otherwise its definitely rigged.