Proof that Steve Nash is the MVP..

[fgrep15]

What? I watched the game, and the Suns were up 1 with Nash on the floor, then made their run with Diaw and Marion leading the way while he was on the bench. How in the world did that game help to support him as MVP?

Also Phoenix and LA don't have comparable lineups. As much as I hate it when people use the he has a bad team argument as to why Kobe should be MVP. Raja Bell is superior to any perimeter guy on the Lakers, Marion is better than Odom, Diaw is better than Kwame, and Mihm by a decent margin, and the Lakers bench consists of Cook, George and Sasha. House is better than Sasha, Cook and JJ about the same, and Barbosa is better than all of those guys.

Whereas players like Kobe, LeBron and Iverson don't do a good job of involving their teammates while scoring heavily. Even Wade has done a poor job of keeping his teammates involved (including Shaq) because his shot selection isn't always what it should be and too much one-on-one play prevents the offense from flowing

I can agree with Kobe and Iverson, but Wade and Lebron, I don't think agree with. Who cares about assist numbers, but watching the guys play, they have different roles on the team. Not every team can play spread the ball to everyone and drive and dish all day offense because it only works when you have the proper shooters and personell for it. I also don't like when guys freeze out teammates, and play out of the offense too much. With Lebron and Wade, they're the primary scorers and playmakers, therefore are required to break down the defense, but they will look for the open man when he's there, and don't freeze out their teammates.

[TRUball]

2- John stockton averaged 17 points on 50% shooting & 14 assists and 3 steals per game for a big part of his career. Kevin Johnson 20 pts 10 assists 50% type of player, tim hardaway 22 points 10 assists,...and many others who have zero MVP's.

Exactly, I don't see what makes Nash's season's (this and last year) anymore impressive than all of those players. I mean, who was getting the MVPs instead of Stockton, a name comes to mind, Jordan.

3- Nash deserved it once...but now people wanna give it to him? AGAIN? This season? A season where Kobe Bryant (breaking records of past MVP's, 81 pts, 62 in three, playoffs..) and Lebron James (putting up crazy all around stats, playoffs, ...) are having "historical" (or close too) seasons?? Let's not get carried away here Pls . (too late)

That's exactly it. Kobe IS having a historical season. What he has done this year is historical. Twenty years from now, people will remember this season. People won't be remebering Nash's 'incredible' season. Just less than twenty years ago, MJ was a scoring monster, he got MVP one of those years, the 37 PPG season I'm pretty sure, now tell me, during that season, tell me off the top of your head a PG's incredible season. If you can, good for you, if you can't, that proves my point. Nothing about what Nash is doing is historical, for years PG's have turned around teams while averaging near 20 points, 10 assists (and usually they also throw in about 2 steals, which isn't part of Nash's game) and how many of them have won MVPs? Not many. What makes Nash any different? I'd be outraged if Nash got is again, while great PGs that are vastly superior to him never got it. (ex. Kidd, Stockton, etc.)

[fgrep15]

MJ didn't win an MVP when he averaged 37 PPG. What makes Nash different? He has less competition. When guys like KJ etc were doing there 20-10 thing, they had guys like Jordan, Malone, Barkley, Olajuwon etc putting up big numbers and winning about 50-60 games. The guys right now who are putting up big numbers outside of Lebron aren't on pace for even 50 games. That's the difference.

[TRUball]

MJ didn't win an MVP when he averaged 37 PPG. What makes Nash different? He has less competition. When guys like KJ etc were doing there 20-10 thing, they had guys like Jordan, Malone, Barkley, Olajuwon etc putting up big numbers and winning about 50-60 games. The guys right now who are putting up big numbers outside of Lebron aren't on pace for even 50 games. That's the difference.

My bad, he won the MVP when he averaged 35 PPG. (also, he also won defensive player of the year then, with career high averages of 3.16 spg, and 1.6 bpg) But anyways, that's true there isn't as much competition, but there still is some. Are we forgeting about Dirk? Brand? Gasol?

[fgrep15]

I didn't say there isn't competition, but Dirk, Brand and Gasol are not putting up 30-6-6 or something. Brand and Gasol are on pace for 48 and 47 wins respectively and 5th and 6th seeds, not enough for the MVP honours.

Dirk is competition, and I think him or Lebron who's team is on pace for 50 wins right now should win it. Nash is there, but the Suns have only been at .500 the last 16 games, and they've shown they can play well without him on the floor all season long.

[TRUball]

I personally don't get how helping your team get 50+ wins make you any more valuable than if you carry your team into the playoffs when without you they would be battling for more ping-pong balls.

Although I would love for Kobe to get MVP, but I would be fine with Dirk, LeBron, or anyone else getting, except for Nash or Billups. I just don't think they deserve it.

[Laxation]

That's exactly it. Kobe IS having a historical season. What he has done this year is historical.

So did Milwaukee, but I dont think we are going to give Redd the MVP are we?

And please stop trying to compare Jordan to Kobe

[shadowgrin]

please stop trying to compare Jordan to Kobe

(At the risk of making myself a flaming target)
We all know Kobe is better than Jordan.

[J@3]

Everybody knows the Lakers, Cavs, Wizards, Grizzlies etc. have zero chance at winning the championship. They are not contenders.

Oh, well since the almighty here has announced it I suppose they may aswell just not show up and go on holidays or something.

Funny, I was under the impression the award was for the regular season MVP, not play-off MVP.

[TRUball]

That's exactly it. Kobe IS having a historical season. What he has done this year is historical.

So did Milwaukee, but I dont think we are going to give Redd the MVP are we?

And please stop trying to compare Jordan to Kobe

Why would you give Redd the MVP for something that Milwaukee has done? The MVP is a individual award. I realize that was sarcastic but still.

I'm not comparing Kobe to Jordan, I was just saying there season averages were similar, averaging a high number of points, but after I looked at all of MJ's averages that year, he had vastly superior numbers, and I do know that Jordan is far better than Kobe ever will be. But none of that takes away from Kobe's current season, as with what he is scoring it is historical.

[hipn]

MVP is an individual award... but it's also an award for helping your team.

Nash helped so many people/players. For example, Boris Diaw. Who was he before he went to the Suns? No one heard of this guy and no one gave a sh** about him. Then he came to Phoenix and BAMMM!!!!, this guy gets mentioned sooo much. People talk about him all the time saying how he is having a break-through season.

Did Kobe every do anything like that?

And umm.... how many shots does Kobe take PER game?

[DB]

MVP is an individual award... but it's also an award for helping your team.

Yeah "Luke Walton" is the reason why the lakers (who suck tremendously btw) are making the playoffs...

Did Kobe every do anything like that?

Probably not...but maybe it's because he's not a playmaker?

And umm.... how many shots does Kobe take PER game?

Kobe Bryant , LAL 35,1 12,2-27,2
Allen Iverson , PHI 32,9 11,3-25,2


It's not that bad. MJ took 27,8 shots per game with a better percentage (48% to 45%) but he had to shoot that many...just like Kobe now.

[J@3]

When Allen Iverson won the MVP in 2001, he was shooting 25 times per game at .420

[BIG GREEN]

This is bullshit...Lebron James scores 37 points and has 7 assists snapping the nets 14 game winning streak....that far outshines nash. Does that mean lebron is gonna win mvp?..hell no...mvp is an award to the team with a top record.
.

[Keith Frazier]

What kind of achievement is it for a guy to average 34ppg on a 7th seed?! A 7th seed?! And what about Iverson? Not even in the playoffs! 62 wins per season the MVP averages. I think its pretty obvious what the criteria for MVP is in case you don't already know. Be A Winner. No big deal to lead a team to the 7th seed, let alone 4-5th seed (LeBron James, can you really lead your team to the championship?). The MVP winner will always come from a top 2-3 team. Nash (you know that guy with Magic Johnson-type stats that can explode for 45 any given night) is definitely the MVP for the 2nd straight year, and even better than last year.

[DB]

Given the many subjective definitions being used, here is what I think an MVP should be: the NBA MVP should be given to the player who has given the best performance in a season.

Making other players better, being the best player on one of the best teams, and basically getting credit for team wins -- these are all based on TEAM performance. Such arguments, I think, are misguided and all-too-often self-serving. There is already an award for team performance: the NBA championship. An NBA title, I believe, is the most important and most coveted award out there. Players who have won an MVP but have never won a championship, I bet, would trade their MVP award for a ring. In a heartbeat. And this is the way it should be. An NBA championship is given to the entire team precisely because it's the team that wins the championship. No one player, no matter how good or dominant, can win a title by himself. In the same vein, one should not single out an individual as being "most responsible" for team success. Those hypotheticals about "taking this player out from this team" are I believe, irrelevant. You look at the peformances actually given and team success actually achieved. Nobody knows what would have happened if the Bulls had Mitch Richmond instead of Steve Kerr or if Mychal Thompson were replaced by Karl Malone. Jordan didn't win six rings, nor did Magic win 5 rings. The Bulls and Lakers did.

Hence, the MVP should be an award that recognizes individual performance. Knowing full well that an NBA title is what matters most, there should be a venue for acknowleding individual excellence, however secondary it may be to team success. There is merit to working hard on your game, bringing it night in and night out, and being the best player you can be. Further, true individual greatness and team success are not, nor have they historically been (save for a few anomalous instances), completely incongruent. If a player has been truly great, how can that not benefit his team? I've been trying to think of a player who has been THE best player (not just a very good player) in the NBA for a season who was on a team that did not make the playoffs, much less on a team that's truly abyssmal. Tracy McGrady, maybe, when he led the league in scoring. But even then the Magic had a winning record and made it to the playoffs.

So, given the above, I think this season's MVP is a 2-way race between Kobe and Lebron. This is not to discount Nash's performance which has been fantastic and really goes beyond just having high assist numbers and FG%. His impact on the game is amazing. Still, Kobe and LBJ's performances stand out. Kobe's scoring, defense, and clutch play vs. Lebron's all-around brilliance. Personally, I'd take Kobe. I wouldn't mind it too much if Lebron got it though.

[DB]

What kind of achievement is it for a guy to average 34ppg on a 7th seed?!

35ppg...and you know that.

[Keith Frazier]

When Allen Iverson won the MVP in 2001, he was shooting 25 times per game at .420

And led his team to the NBA Finals, and 56 regular season wins.

[J@3]

Do you even know who Magic Johnson is? Nash's stats aren't even remotely close to his.

Nash (you know that guy with Magic Johnson-type stats that can explode for 45 any given night)

I'm guessing that given night hasn't come this season since his season high is 31.

And led his team to the NBA Finals

The MVP award is for the regular season, not for the play-offs. Anything he achieves in the play-offs is irrelevant to this award.

[BIG GREEN]

Who says the cavaliers or lakers arent "contenders"..just cause they dont have a team full of players who all average atleast 10 ppg? Knicks made the finals after barely entering the playoffs as an 8th seat. As jae and myself have said many times before...history has shown that any team in the playoffs is a contender..thats the point of it.

Anyone who wants to argue anything other than the Sun's record is talking pure bullshit..cause lebron and kobe are quite simply put...better players. They have proven it all season...mvp is SUPPOSED to be an individual award..not a momento to the best team like it has blatantly become

[Keith Frazier]

It doesn't matter what you guys think the MVP means. All that matters what the MVP voters determine it means. And that was established decades ago and its always been about being a winner. And in a team sport, thats all that matters. Otherwise Jordan would have won 10 Regular Season MVPs. Heck, even that one year he won an MVP without winning the championship he needed to win Defensive Player of the Year to convince voters. And how about 1997, Karl Malone beat Michael Jordan for Regular Season MVP even though it was clear Jordan was the better player. But the Jazz won 62 games that year (the Bulls also won 62) and won the regular season series vs the Bulls (but not the playoffs hahahahhha)

[BIG GREEN]

So the mvp is about being a winner? It has nothing to do with stats eh? So the lakers or cavs havent won a game this year..thats why lebron or kobe shouldn't get it.

[DB]

What kind of achievement is it for a guy to average 34ppg on a 7th seed?!

35ppg...and you know that.



I swear if someone heard last year that a player is gonna average 35ppg, score 62 pts in less than 3 quarters, score 81 pts in a game and lead a BAD team to a 7th seed in the west in 2006...everybody would scream "MVP" from the top of they're longs! But they just didn't know that guy would be Kobe Bryant...

[Keith Frazier]

Quote me properly Jae, I said "And led his team to the NBA Finals, and 56 regular season wins."

Did you see last season's playoffs? Regular 30-40 point games from Nash. And Nash has scored 39 this season. 42, 39, 34, 48 are some of his higher scores from last season's playoffs. Magic Johnson is my 2nd favorite player ever, but he didn't score as heavily as that too often (and never in his last few years - even though he led his relatively weak Lakers line-up to the NBA Finals in 1991). I'm not saying Nash is as good as Magic, cos he clearly isn't, but Nash this season is a worthy MVP winner obviously.

[Axel]

Given the many subjective definitions being used, here is what I think an MVP should be: the NBA MVP should be given to the player who has given the best performance in a season.

So, given the above, I think this season's MVP is a 2-way race between Kobe and Lebron.

So, given the above, this proves that you are incorrect in your MVP choices. As you previously stated, this is based on your view of an MVP, which incidentally is not the same as that of the voters historically. Maybe you could protest for a "Most dominant player of the year" award.

Just because that's the defintion you think an the MVP award should be doesn't make it so.

They have proven it all season..

Steve Nash hasn't? Are you joking?

It doesn't matter what you guys think the MVP means. All that matters what the MVP voters determine it means. And that was established decades ago and its always been about being a winner.

Thank you! At least someone here sees that. The MVP vote is simply not for the player who scores the most... otherwise we could have gave it to T-mac some years back in Orlando.