Nash just sealed MVP #2 in my book.

[The X]

as much as I liked him winning it last year, for the same reasons that Andrew brought up in regards to John Stockton, I don't think he did deserve it....Top 3 voting yes....but after watching him in person at a Clippers game & seeing what he's done this year with a bunch of likeable guys (Raja Bell, Boris Diaw, etc, etc), I would be shocked if he didn't win it this year....forget Kobe & Lebron, Nash deserves it....

[Matt]

But on the other hand Suns have to be the most unstable teams in the league (from those who actualy win). When they loose nash...thats it.. they cant win nothing

Point guards make the world go around......if one of Spurs, Pistons & Suns lost their starting PG in the playoffs their respective teams would not win a championship pure and simple.

[dada]

exactly, because there's not much change in his game since he came over from Dallas.

There hasnt been much change since Dallas but I always knew Nash could play this way. He never really had to do much in Dallas because they were so unselfish and always made the extra pass, plus they blew out most teams they played. Dallas has taken on an entirely new identity today when I see them play IMO. They arent as fluid and the only thing that keeps them that good is Dirk and the other mini-stars on the team.

Its kinda similar to Kobe when he played with Malone and Payton. It was like a hicup in his career statswise cuz he was on pace to have a monster year cuz the focus was shifting to him a bit more in the offense but he only averaged around 24. Just didnt have to do as much.

[BIG GREEN]

You people seem to forget that when stockton was in his prime there was a dude named michael jordan in the league. In between that there was also hakeem and his stellar play. Who is nash competiting with for mvp honors?..chauncy billups?..dont make me laugh.

[allamerican08]

i dont agree with what Matt said. Yeah true that is Spurs or detroit lose their PG they will have a low change of winning a championship, but they will still be able to win games!
Suns on the other hand, if they loose nash for 10 games...they will be luky to win 3!

And you right about Michael Jordan... At that time many players who would have won it today in a heardbeat missed out cuz of MJ. I also think that then there were more good teams than now! The focus was on winning not bulding all the time. Now there are really only 4 teams who dominate the league. And all the good players continuously get traded or sign with other teams! Its bad that despite the hype of 2003 draft... , kobe going nuts, LBJ is off the charts, Melo is awsome, wade is on the another level, Yao is into it, ....none can be a solid contender for an MVP cuz none of them win consistently enough to make noice in the playoffs

[Matt]

i dont agree with what Matt said. Yeah true that is Spurs or detroit lose their PG they will have a low change of winning a championship, but they will still be able to win games

w/o Billups Detroit would struggle to make the ECF let alone win there. Spurs likewise needs Parkers easy baskets.

Suns would probably worse off without Nash, but that also has to do with their lack of roster depth. They don't have any PG's off the bench....Barbosa is good but he doesnt play the pass first role like others.

[Bang]

Billups is underrated, even though I really hate the Pistons, and I know that Billups is probably what makes the Pistons so good right now. Without Billups, they would be much worse. So for that reason I think Billups deserves the MVP. Not only does he provide a lot of the Piston's offense, but his assist numbers are high as well. (WITH A FRIGGIN 4.27 Assists to Turnover Ratio!! He never makes careless passes! Nash on the other hand has a 2.88 Assists to Turnover Ratio...Not bad, but not quite 4.27 is it?) And chances are Pistons will end up with a higher record.

[cyanide]

As much as I'm all for Nash winning the MVP for the second time and knowing that he deserves it, I'm just disappointed that Stockton or Kidd has never recieved the honor. I guess it's all based on chance and circumstance.

[IronMan]

Who deserved it more than Nash last year?

[dada]

Without Billups, they would be much worse. So for that reason I think Billups deserves the MVP. Not only does he provide a lot of the Piston's offense, but his assist numbers are high as well. (WITH A FRIGGIN 4.27 Assists to Turnover Ratio!! He never makes careless passes! Nash on the other hand has a 2.88 Assists to Turnover Ratio...Not bad, but not quite 4.27 is it?) And chances are Pistons will end up with a higher record.

Whenever the "without this guy this team would be worse" argument comes up then I immediately say Kobe or Nash is MVP in that instance (Kobe more since PHO has Marion,who is 10x better than Odom, and a returning Amare). I look at the teams roster, public expectancy, and I always come to the conclusion that LA would be battling for the worst record in the league instead of a playoff spot. Detroit on the other hand would still be one of the more solid contenders in the East and PHO would be where LA is currently.


As far as assists to turnover ratio goes, its another one of those useless statistics since even Carlos Arroyo (an his 14 quality minutes per game) has a better ratio than Nash and that doesnt signify in any way he is a better decision maker. Nash.s sporadic play is what keeps PHO going so of course there will be an extra turnover here and there.

[Axel]

i dont agree with what Matt said. Yeah true that is Spurs or detroit lose their PG they will have a low change of winning a championship, but they will still be able to win games!
Suns on the other hand, if they loose nash for 10 games...they will be luky to win 3!

What the fuck are you talking about???

The Suns aren't an unstable team... in fact, they are one of the deepest in the league. You take away Barbosa, Nash, Amare, and Kurt Thomas in a game against the best team in the league (imho), there is no way they will win. It's not that Nash completely makes or breaks the team, but when you lose him and three other important players that real problems come up. If the Suns had been healthy all season long, I'm certain they would have the best record... and probably would be the best team.

[EGarrett]

Whenever the "without this guy this team would be worse" argument comes up then I immediately say Kobe or Nash is MVP in that instance (Kobe more since PHO has Marion,who is 10x better than Odom, and a returning Amare).

Lamar Odom before Kobe:
17.1 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 4.1 apg

Shawn Marion before Nash:
19.0 ppg, 9.3 rebounds, 2.7 assists

LOL at the "Kobe Effect" vs. "The Nash Effect"

[MetalHead]

...And the aftermath of the Nash/Kobe affect.

Lamar Odom: 14.1 PPG, 9.3 RPG, 5.3 APG

Shawn Marion: 22.0 PPG, 12.3 RPG, 1.7 APG

[magius]

like i said before, just because nash is in a 'perfect' situation that shouldn't detract from how we perceive them. after all, couldn't i also say that ben wallace is in the 'perfect' situation? isn't billups in the 'perfect' situation? wasn't russell in the 'perfect' situation? bird? magic? duncan? the list goes on and on; any player that has had a certain success on their respective team it could be argued that they are in the 'perfect' situation:

nash for mvp. no doubt, no contest. i would've went with billups earlier, but nash is just consistently surprising me. i don't think any other point guard in nba history could do what he is doing with phoenix. don't misunderstand, i don't think nash could do what stock did or that nash ccould do what magic did or isiah or even kidd or payton (on their respective succesful teams) - but i think it goes both ways. they would've done well, but not as well, both ways. nash may be in a favorable, even perfect, situation to implement his talents, but that is no negative.

Point guards make the world go around......if one of Spurs, Pistons & Suns lost their starting PG in the playoffs their respective teams would not win a championship pure and simple.

aren't you overexageratting that a little to defend your point? any team that loses a key part of their core will be worse off then what they were before. period. of course san antonio needs a point guard to win, but san antonio also needs a centre, power forward, small forward, and shooting guard. In fact, without parker, the spurs have managed to win a championship, so one could easily argue that their system is not dependent on him to win. if anything, obviously, it is dependent on tim duncan. implying parker is more or as important than td is like saying cassell was more or as important as hakeem.

Whenever the "without this guy this team would be worse" argument comes up then I immediately say Kobe or Nash is MVP in that instance (Kobe more since PHO has Marion,who is 10x better than Odom, and a returning Amare). I look at the teams roster, public expectancy, and I always come to the conclusion that LA would be battling for the worst record in the league instead of a playoff spot. Detroit on the other hand would still be one of the more solid contenders in the East and PHO would be where LA is currently.

basing your vote for mvp on exceeded expectations is foolish. i don't vote a retard the smartest guy in the class award just because he passes a quiz with a B.

Marion was still an excellent player before Nash. JJ, Diaw, Bell were all good too but the Phoenix system makes them better....Bell was always a good 3 shooter and a good defender, in Phoenix he shines, Diaw was also good in ATL although unpolished, JJ likewise was versatile and developing. Q's only strength was the 3 and that showed in Phoenix.

let me ask you something - who is the most important player in the phoenix system? the reason the phoenix system is the phoenix system is because of nash, the others play well in it, but the system is not dependent on them. marion may still have been a good player before nash, but was he ever even considered as an mvp candidate? if anything, before nash, he was a borderline all-star. diaw, bell, jj, q, jones - all unpolished and unrpoven, it says something that post nash their repuations were increased tenfold (and in q's case, concurrenly dropped down to hell when we realized what he really was without nash). that is a telling fact that says so much about nash; making others seem better is a consequence of being a great player.

Personally i'd vote Shawn Marion MVP.....i just don't feel comfortable with voting for someone who doesn't excel on both ends of the floor.

shawn marion's success is drawn directly from nash, not the other way around. personally, i'd be uncomfortable voting someone who is basically the third option on a healthy team mvp. but maybe thats just me.

who are these actual viable mvp candidates who 'excel' on both sides of the court? kobe? don't make me laugh, watch a laker game, his defense is based on inconsistency and few select magnified instances. billups? its inevitable that he be considered an at least decent defender in a pure defensive system. not to mention he has the ben wallace wall to back him. but if you think about, does he actually excel defensively? i don't think so. the only thing chauncy truly 'excels' in is the clutch. lebron? i don't think so, at least not yet. iverson? not only is his d unversatile, he gambles too often for the steal.

the only one is brand, but i feel uncomfortable giving the mvp to, in terms of team success, what amounts to a one season wonder.

[Dean]

Im probably biased because Nashty is my favourite player, but id agree and say he deserves the MVP more than anyone, unless the Lakers go on a huge run.

He is averaging a career high in scoring, and still leading the league in Assists. The Suns lost Amare, and theyre still leading theyre division and 3rd in the West.

[H Rock]

As much as I'm all for Nash winning the MVP for the second time and knowing that he deserves it, I'm just disappointed that Stockton or Kidd has never recieved the honor. I guess it's all based on chance and circumstance.

Is it just because the Suns were so exciting to watch?

Who deserved it more than Nash last year?

Shaq?

[cyanide]

As much as I'm all for Nash winning the MVP for the second time and knowing that he deserves it, I'm just disappointed that Stockton or Kidd has never recieved the honor. I guess it's all based on chance and circumstance.

Is it just because the Suns were so exciting to watch?

No, that's irrelevant.

Stockton and Kidd had a lot of strong competitors for MVP in their time (Malone, Jordan, etc) and Nash was fortunate to be in a time where great players are in sub-par seasons and great teams are playing without a superstar.

[H Rock]

Read the second part of my post. What about Shaq?

[j.23]

kinda off topic, and sorry to throw this in, but all this talk makes me boil at how jason kidd did not win the MVP the year he got traded to the nets -- and absolutely changing that sorry ass team, even bringing them to the nba finals .. TWICE. one of the biggest snubs in history, imo. we all knew how great duncan was already that year, but i don't think anyone could duplicate what j. kidd did.

[lassen24]

Read the second part of my post. What about Shaq?

no way, miami would still be a playoff team without shaq. and remember how terrible phoenix was before they picked up nash. and since when does shaq make guys around him better. Nash completely deserved it last year, and he does again this year.

[Dean]

and since when does shaq make guys around him better.

Damon Jones?

[dada]

Whenever the "without this guy this team would be worse" argument comes up then I immediately say Kobe or Nash is MVP in that instance (Kobe more since PHO has Marion,who is 10x better than Odom, and a returning Amare).

Lamar Odom before Kobe:
17.1 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 4.1 apg

Shawn Marion before Nash:
19.0 ppg, 9.3 rebounds, 2.7 assists

LOL at the "Kobe Effect" vs. "The Nash Effect"

...And the aftermath of the Nash/Kobe affect.

Lamar Odom: 14.1 PPG, 9.3 RPG, 5.3 APG

Shawn Marion: 22.0 PPG, 12.3 RPG, 1.7 APG

I dont get what you are trying to say. How is this relevant to what I was saying. I am talking about this season and how I think their team would have performed without their superstar. I am in no way insinuating (or even bringing up) that Kobe has a greater positive effect on the court performance of his teammates. All I am saying is the Lakers would suck ass without Kobe and the Suns would be ok without Nash provided Nash and Amare were there.

Besides, outside Marion's first season, he has always put up those types of numbers and Odom has only performed similar once. Again, besides the point.

[dada]

basing your vote for mvp on exceeded expectations is foolish. i don't vote a retard the smartest guy in the class award just because he passes a quiz with a B.

You really annoy me, did I ever tell you that? Everytime I read something you post I feel like 15 lbs of cow shit just appeared right beside me.

In no way did I say Kobe deserves MVP, at this point I believe he doesnt. Being a fan I would love that though but thats not the point. I was posting based on a certain criteria but I guess when you have a walrus up your ass you seem to miss these things. Were you molested as a child?

Which of the two is more valuable that person?

(a)A million dollar ring in the hands of a millionaire.
(b )a million dollar ring in the hands of a peasant.

[Carmo]

Read the second part of my post. What about Shaq?

no way, miami would still be a playoff team without shaq. and remember how terrible phoenix was before they picked up nash. and since when does shaq make guys around him better. Nash completely deserved it last year, and he does again this year.

Phoenix were not terrible at all. They lead the Spurs 3-1 in the first round of the playoffs before bowing out in 7. This was with Marbury at the helm and Amare's first year

[Matt]

In fact, without parker, the spurs have managed to win a championship, so one could easily argue that their system is not dependent on him to win

what in 99? totally diff team....only Duncan remains. With the way Duncan is playing this season, Spurs stand no chance of winning a championship w/o Parker. Same goes for Pistons & Suns.

let me ask you something - who is the most important player in the phoenix system? the reason the phoenix system is the phoenix system is because of nash, the others play well in it, but the system is not dependent on them. marion may still have been a good player before nash, but was he ever even considered as an mvp candidate? if anything, before nash, he was a borderline all-star. diaw, bell, jj, q, jones - all unpolished and unrpoven, it says something that post nash their repuations were increased tenfold (and in q's case, concurrenly dropped down to hell when we realized what he really was without nash). that is a telling fact that says so much about nash; making others seem better is a consequence of being a great player.

borderline all-star? he was already an All-Star before Nash. The other guys, playing time has also had a huge impact on their games. As for Q, we won't know what he is w/o Nash until he leaves NY. Playing with Larry Brown is not good for his game since he can't shoot 3's.

shawn marion's success is drawn directly from nash, not the other way around. personally, i'd be uncomfortable voting someone who is basically the third option on a healthy team mvp. but maybe thats just me

So how does Nash make Marion a better rebounder & overall defender?

who are these actual viable mvp candidates who 'excel' on both sides of the court? kobe? don't make me laugh, watch a laker game, his defense is based on inconsistency and few select magnified instances. billups? its inevitable that he be considered an at least decent defender in a pure defensive system. not to mention he has the ben wallace wall to back him. but if you think about, does he actually excel defensively? i don't think so. the only thing chauncy truly 'excels' in is the clutch. lebron? i don't think so, at least not yet. iverson? not only is his d unversatile, he gambles too often for the steal.

excels is a relative term. KG is the only superstar that plays as hard on D as he does on O. I think your underrating Billups defence, sure he has trouble keeping the quick guys out of the lane but he's a big reason as to why Detroit have the L's best perimeter defense.

Nash is simply really really bad on defense and he can't even maintain a 3-1 TO ratio.