Pippen seems to hate Kobe

[Yougi]

Well, No hate in that one from my point of view, only a guy telling the truth: Kobe is no MJ.

[Sauru]

you are right, the nba has constantly changed the rules to help the scorers out. go way back in time and its true that the rules of both pro and college basketball were altered to "even" the playing field. really it was to stop the big men from totally dominating the game. however the rules in the last 5 to 10 years keep changing to make it even easier for the scorers to score, specially if you can cut and slash and have the ability to draw even minimul contact. i still remember when they tried to move the 3 point line in, of course that actually dropped the 3pt% of the league if i am not mistaken lol.

[MetalHead]

-Sigh- Stop comparing MJ and Kobe together people...really. Kobe is nothing compared to MJ, and they play on different plateaus. Jordan could never touch Kobe's 81, and Kobe will never, ever touch Jordan's 6 championships. Kobe's ball is selfish ball, and he will always fall short. Bryant had his defining moments as a three-time champion in L.A., but before anyone tries to place him in the same wing with Jordan in any pantheon, Kobe will have to prove he can win a championship or two without Shaq. It took Michael Jordan many painful, maligned years to realize there was a W in we and an L in Michael. But sadly, Kobe will never understand that, and his 81 points only further proves my point.

[Sauru]

i would be willing to bet that jordan could have dropped 81 had he ever tried to, and i would not write off kobe yet on getting 3 more rings, he is only 27 afterall

[maes]

Pippen speaks truth.

But hey he only has 6 rings, named one of the NBA's 50 greatest, and made the All-NBA 1st team 7 times, what does he know?

The game has totally changed from when Jordan played, but i'm not sure if that's a bad thing. Does game back then were absolutely tragic, you got angry, deeply angry against other teams. Rivalries were real and blood fueds. Nowadays, everyone can relax and watch Kobe shoot jumpers over Jalen Rose and have a good time. Let's all hug each other.

This how the 90's game was played:

[MetalHead]

Pippen speaks truth.

But hey he only has 6 rings, named one of the NBA's 50 greatest, and made the All-NBA 1st team 7 times, what does he know?

The game has totally changed from when Jordan played, but i'm not sure if that's a bad thing. Does game back then were absolutely tragic, you got angry, deeply angry against other teams. Rivalries were real and blood fueds. Nowadays, everyone can relax and watch Kobe shoot jumpers over Jalen Rose and have a good time. Let's all hug each other.

This how the 90's game was played:

ROFL! LMAO!

[#12]

about my topic title....i just wanted people to read the article. none of you would read the article if i said it was about kobe and mj because there are millions of kobe and mj articles

[Joe']

That pic is from the late 80's (Both Laimbeer and Bird reitred in early 90's and those shorts are absolutely 80's style).

I wish people would learn to accept things for the way they are....look to the past for inspiration..not direction.[/i]

I think you're the one who needs to accept the truth: MJ is GOD compared to Kobe, simple as that. And no, It's not even "MJ is better than Kobe".

[BIG GREEN]

Um...what does that have to do with what i was talking about? The most retarded comment of the year award goes to you.

[Yougi]

Pippen speaks truth.

But hey he only has 6 rings, named one of the NBA's 50 greatest, and made the All-NBA 1st team 7 times, what does he know?

The game has totally changed from when Jordan played, but i'm not sure if that's a bad thing. Does game back then were absolutely tragic, you got angry, deeply angry against other teams. Rivalries were real and blood fueds. Nowadays, everyone can relax and watch Kobe shoot jumpers over Jalen Rose and have a good time. Let's all hug each other.

This how the 90's game was played:

ROFL! LMAO!

Hey, I still play that way

[Bruce]

-Sigh- Stop comparing MJ and Kobe together people...really. Kobe is nothing compared to MJ, and they play on different plateaus. Jordan could never touch Kobe's 81, and Kobe will never, ever touch Jordan's 6 championships. Kobe's ball is selfish ball, and he will always fall short. Bryant had his defining moments as a three-time champion in L.A., but before anyone tries to place him in the same wing with Jordan in any pantheon, Kobe will have to prove he can win a championship or two without Shaq. It took Michael Jordan many painful, maligned years to realize there was a W in we and an L in Michael. But sadly, Kobe will never understand that, and his 81 points only further proves my point.

But you have to take into account that, there is an "I" in win, no "L" in kobe bryant and 3 "W" in willy weenie wanker. Haha... j/k

Bryant's 81 points is not at all easy to make, because otherwise rose and mo pete could have just as well dumped 40 pts apeice to win the game, they had that 18pt lead didn't they? MJ and Kobe comparisons will never end, much as mj was pitted against Dr. J. And Dr. J was from an era where basketball players were called cagers. Yes folks, it was that bad back then that they had to put up steel cages to prevent players from spilling into the stands. So if we followed this line of thinking julius erving is way better than MJ. Comparison may only be the way we could ever dissect how each played and what are their strengths. These days, coach bobby knight is called a dinosaur because he still employs rough play.

So MJ is a more physical player, but his crossover is not as velvety smooth as bryant's, his long distance shooting is average at best. If kobe's ballhogging moves the spirit of odom and george to score more on a consistent basis, if it moves brown and bynum to fullfill their potential. I still think MJ play was a cut above kobe's, but i absolutely disagree with pippen that the 81pt game is that bad for the laker squad.

On the last outing of the Lakers and the Heat, Bynum made just one basket, but that basket was against shaq, and that one shot defined the game. Kobe was proud of bynum, because he was prodding bynum to go up against shaq. These days, I give bryant more credit than just being a mere ballhog. the senior bryant wanted his career to be more defined than what it was, so he placed that chip on his son's shoulder, so there'd be a bryant that was more than just a mere journeyman. And it has produced one of the best ball players of this era. Kobe is good for the lakers TEAM and good for the entire league, because he is more than just a whiny millionaire that gives you lackluster play. And haters are good for bryant. because it reminds him of that chip on his shoulder.

If kobe "wills his team" (as pippen put it), and get these bunch of kids that we call the lakers, and gets them their playoff experience, would that be bad for the team? how did kobe destroy teamwork, by dominating just half a game, to erase an 18pt deficit? Why isn't there anyone blasting the toronto for playing that kind of defense? is it really the fault of the rules of the game that the raptors simply can not defend at all?

[J@3]

I'm getting sick of these analyists and former players acting as if scoring 81 is easy to do. Even current players like Shaq saying if they had 50 shots they'd do it, it really bothers me. No one just wants to give him credit and move on, they've got to compare him to MJ or say that the style of game is so different that he would never score that many back then. They should just keep quiet, none of them have done anything remotely close to this.

[BIG GREEN]

Yea im getting sick of it too...give the dude a fuckin break. Like i've said before..im not a kobe fan..im an nba fan..but unfortunatly kobe has alot of haters.

[Matt]

Even current players like Shaq saying if they had 50 shots they'd do it, it really bothers me

Sadly, Shaq would have extreme struggles with scoring 50 pntsh he can't make anything beyond 8ft or ft's.

[Jugs]

Shaq would have to cherry pick a whole game to score 80 points.

[Fresh8]

On the topic of hate for KB8...

There's still a Lot of 8-Hate

Two days after the most incredible individual performance in the history of the NBA, and here came the flagrant fouls.

Pat Riley shrugged at reporters.

"It's remarkable, the execution and the efficiency, but we've got a lot of guys in this league, if they took 70 shots, they'd score a lot of points," he said.

Vince Carter preached to reporters.

"The only bad thing about it is young kids, whose minds are easily warped, are going to think, 'Ohhh, I am going to go out there and do it' instead of the team concept first," he said.

Shaquille O'Neal refused comment to reporters. Of course.

The punishment that Kobe Bryant avoided in flitting around the Toronto Raptors for 81 points Sunday caught up to him quickly afterward, cheap elbows and late shoves and all sort of jersey grabbing.

He has since been mocked by writers, questioned by opposing players, ignored by all legends but Magic Johnson, and, in his first public appearance Tuesday, visited by only a handful of local reporters and TV types.

"This goes along with who we are as a society," Coach Phil Jackson said. "Somebody does something exceptional, people are looking for ways to denigrate them."

Given Bryant's past, people haven't had to look hard.

Folks have been talking about Colorado so much, you would have thought he scored 81 against the Nuggets.

There has been so much yammering about selfishness, you would have thought the Lakers lost.

Everyone has been so focused on the description, "ball hog," you would have never known that one of his most important plays was a pass to Lamar Odom.

The statement made by Bryant on the Staples Center court Sunday night was far less compelling than the message delivered later in the national town hall.

Lots of people don't like him. Lots of people will never like him.

If Tim Duncan had scored 81 points, the sports world would declare a national holiday. If Allen Iverson had scored 81 points, he would have rushed to "Oprah" to weepingly discuss his personal growth.

Bryant is allowed no such vacation from his past, and will be offered no such public redemption of his sins.

"In this society, we never give people a chance to come back to grace," Jackson said.

One columnist began his Bryant piece by writing about a selfish Bryant act from an All-Star game — eight years ago.

Another columnist wrote about how Bryant was so impressive, this time, Vanessa bought him a ring.

In an era where "maturity" has become as much of a sports cliché as "one game at a time," Bryant is the one athlete deemed incapable of growing up.

During a time when even a guy who admitted to hindering a murder investigation can return to popularity — see Ray Lewis — Bryant is the one athlete whose personal problems have no expiration date.

Those who love him, they have always loved him. Those who don't, they never will. Nike can make him the focus of an infomercial at halftime of the Super Bowl, and the second group will still remain sizably larger than the first.

"Off the court, I just try to be myself," Bryant said Tuesday. "I've been through a lot, and I just try to be me. Hopefully as the years go on, people will understand what I'm about."

As pandering goes, that quote qualifies as an airball, and that's the problem.

What makes Bryant so great on the court makes him so unapproachable off the court.

It's about imposing his will. The way he treats a rookie guard is the way he treats a wary public.

He will stare, he will sneer, he will do it his way and, eventually, everyone will have no choice but to appreciate him.

Those same NBA fans who rip Duncan and the Detroit Pistons for being boring will one day embrace this greatest of entertainers, he knows it.

Those writers who call him selfish will see how he can lift his ordinary Laker team to the playoffs, he's certain.

And all those players who dislike him, well, he is confident they will realize one day that at least he's not a phony like O'Neal.

Speaking of which, does anybody else think that, in two seasons in Miami, O'Neal has become exactly what he despised in Bryant?

In his comments about his former teammate and former owner, he has been selfish and immature and so petty, he's become The Big Small.

As for that admitted dog Vince Carter, well, hearing him talk about role modeling is like listening to Ben Roethlisberger talk about grooming.

Then there was the quote from the Miami Heat's Antoine Walker, who told reporters, "If somebody gets 81 on me, I'm going to clothesline him."

That, of course, will never happen, because in order to clothesline somebody, Walker must first guard somebody.

Bryant's 81 points do not change his personality or his past. He can still be prickly to onlookers, cocky to opponents, and downright scary to teammates.

He is a complex guy who can be as selfish as he is brilliant, a hardened 27-year-old whose persona is as beyond understanding as his game.

But shame on those who would use any of that to diminish Sunday night. Can we, for once, just enjoy art for art's sake without analyzing the painter? Can we dance to the splendid music without condemning the strange composer?

It was a night when Bryant was greater than Michael, greater than Elgin and, yes, greater than Wilt. No matter how you add it, 81 was more impressive than 100.

"Yes, it was," said Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who should know. "That's because of the wide variety of shots that he used, driving, pulling up, behind the three-point line, it was an incredible feat of versatility."

Jackson said you had to be there. "I think people didn't see the game and just lost context of what the game is about," he said of Bryant's critics.

"It's easy to say something that would be derogatory and cut it down a little bit, but if you were there at the game, I think everybody understands how remarkable it was."

And this, from a guy who once considered Bryant uncoachable.

"As for a message to the youth," Bryant said, addressing Carter's ridiculous statement. "My message is that if you work hard, you can go beyond anyone's expectations, even your own."

The kids are listening, if nobody else is.

My daughter Mary Clare, who turns 11 today, walked downstairs at the start of this season wearing a Kobe Bryant jersey. It had been buried in her closet for two years. I wondered why she had pulled it out.

She didn't say he was a reborn saint or a role model, she used a different word.

"He was bad a long time ago," she said. "He's cool again."

Why can't we just be cool with cool?

Maybe people should just him a bit of a break. After all, he's still human. Give him credit where it's due.

[J@3]

As for that admitted dog Vince Carter, well, hearing him talk about role modeling is like listening to Ben Roethlisberger talk about grooming.

Then there was the quote from the Miami Heat's Antoine Walker, who told reporters, "If somebody gets 81 on me, I'm going to clothesline him."

That, of course, will never happen, because in order to clothesline somebody, Walker must first guard somebody.

those were great.

[magius]

thing is, other than kobe fans, nobody really cares that he scored 81. if you watch games and know basketball you understand why the very vast majority of legends and coaches that aren't associated with the lakers appreciate lebron or duncans game over his.

although kobe is without a doubt the 2nd greatest sg in history, the bar between 1 and 2 is still huge. some of the comments made are ridiculous coming from players who really shouldnt be talking, but articles like pippens really shed some light on some truths a lot of people aren't willing to face.

when someone with credibility criticizes kobes game you guys say he's bitter, when normal people post on the forum with their opinions you say they're haters....... obviously the only way to win with you people is to declare kobe pope and suck his cock 24/7 - earth to matilda - its not gonna happen, because he's just plain not that good. in fact, he's not even the best player of his era.

he may not deserve all the hate he gets, but he sure as hell doesnt deserve all the love. i mean, look around, at any given moment theres at least two of you guys singing cumbaya about the guy, while there arent really very many people aggressively actually hating him. stop the kobe hate? more like stop the kobe love.

[J@3]

thing is, other than kobe fans, nobody really cares that he scored 81.

[magius]

[And 1]

But shame on those who would use any of that to diminish Sunday night. Can we, for once, just enjoy art for art's sake without analyzing the painter? Can we dance to the splendid music without condemning the strange composer?


Good Point man!

[BIG GREEN]

thing is, other than kobe fans, nobody really cares that he scored 81.

lol..everything else made some sense in his post except that.

Then there was the quote from the Miami Heat's Antoine Walker, who told reporters, "If somebody gets 81 on me, I'm going to clothesline him."

That, of course, will never happen, because in order to clothesline somebody, Walker must first guard somebody.

also funny

[fgrep15]

although kobe is without a doubt the 2nd greatest sg in history, the bar between 1 and 2 is still huge. some of the comments made are ridiculous coming from players who really shouldnt be talking, but articles like pippens really shed some light on some truths a lot of people aren't willing to face.

I don't think he's passed Jerry West just yet...

[magius]

you now what? with averages of 27 ppg, 6.7 apg and 5.8 rpg i'd be obliged to agree with you, except i' havent seen him play enough to judge on numbers alone. care to explain why you think so?

west has a championship, and a finals mvp, but he didnt win the mvp during the championship, while kobe has 3 championships; so neither of them win (in my eyes) with the big 3 (championship, finals mvp, mvp), so it comes down to their game and their numbers. i prefer west's career averages over kobe's current year, but again, i havent seen him play enough so i had to give it to kobe.

what do you guys think? west or kobe = 2nd best sg in history.

[Andrew]

At the moment I'd be inclined to pick West simply because he's got a decade of being an elite player, one of the best in the game while Kobe's only been at the current level for the last three or four, maybe five years. A few great years cannot equate to over a decade of brilliance.