Oscar Robertson > Michael Jordan?

[Bang]

The fact remains, Oscar Robertson won only 1 championship despite being an amazing player. Like Andrew said, Jordan was a winner. A winner is different from "just" an amazing player like Oscar Robertson. Basketball was, is, always will be a team game, and because of that a championship should be worth much more than statistics. Also, even though there were quite a few people with better stats than Jordan, they just weren't as successful in the playoffs like Jordan. It seems Jordan is even a better player in the playoffs. I think it's Jordan's extreme passion for the game that sets him apart from others. Or maybe it's just a rare hidden quality. You can argue that the teams were weaker in the 90s, but the sport of basketball wasn't that popular in the 60s so there probably weren't that many young people trying to go into basketball when they should have. (IE bigger talent pool in the 90s.) It's hard to really know because I haven't seen the big O play, but because basketball is a team sport, it's hard to put a Jordan below Oscar Robertson.

[Jeffx]

But Michael Jordan is dismissed far too quickly, which is easy to do when you carefully select facts about each player to make your argument. And I use the word "carefully" very kindly, because failing to consider any negative statistic or fact about Robertson is hardly making a fair comparison.

I never dismiss Jordan, Andrew. I just can't put him ahead of Wilt & Russell. That's not so bad, is it?

Matt, you had to have seen Wilt play to understand where I'm coming from. To me, he was larger than life.

[beau_boy04]

Thank you Andrew for putting those two comments in perspective. And now I truly believe Michael Jordan is the greatest player of all time and second greatest winner of all-time just behind Bill Russel.

Like you said, Andrew, MJ is being tackled down because he couldn't take the Wizards back to the playoff on his last two professional years and how come nobody has said anything about Big O missing the playoff 4 times on his prime. And what about Wilt's playoff scoring average? which is lower than his 30.1 ppg in regular season. "The playoff is a totally different atmosphere and that's when the greats ones are separated from the good ones."

You could make an argument about Wilt giving up much of his opportunities to make his teammates better, ok I totally understand that but Wilt still didn't win enough to the same level of Russell and Jordan.

[air gordon]

haah it's been a while since the last andrew rant about the double standard against jordan

i was looking at jordan's career bests... the nite he got 69pts on the cavs (he had a chance to go for 71 but they didn't get him the ball on the last play hehe)- fga, fgm, ft's, 3pm for that game were even't his career high

is bill russell the greatest player ever? depends how you define greatness. i think the greatest winner definitely. i have a great respect for this guy so i'll try not to downplay his importance/accomplishments... i'm not sure you can call him the greatest ever when he's "only" dominating one side of the ball & playing with a lineup stacked with hall of famers

in no particular order i think the bests are jordan, bird, magic, russell

[Matthew]

But Michael Jordan is dismissed far too quickly, which is easy to do when you carefully select facts about each player to make your argument. And I use the word "carefully" very kindly, because failing to consider any negative statistic or fact about Robertson is hardly making a fair comparison.

I never dismiss Jordan, Andrew. I just can't put him ahead of Wilt & Russell. That's not so bad, is it?

Matt, you had to have seen Wilt play to understand where I'm coming from. To me, he was larger than life.

I have seen some footage. Like game 7 of the 1969 finals where he wasnt even on the court in the finals minutes, and the 1970 championship footage. He reminded me alot of David Robinson the way he played.

[Andrew]

I never dismiss Jordan, Andrew. I just can't put him ahead of Wilt & Russell. That's not so bad, is it?

I know you don't, I didn't mean to suggest that. But a lot of people do suggest he wasn't even a top 10 player during his era. I think a lot of people do dimiss him rather readily, strangely enough people who didn't see Wilt or Jordan play.

[apocalypse]

you just can't compare, 2 guys in 2 different era! 1 guy in 60's and another guy is the 90's and there's alot of changes from 60's to 90's.... you just can't do it...

[j.23]

one thing that stands out for me about jordan more than anything is that he never averaged less than 20.0 ppg in his career.. even at the age of 40 - that's simply remarkable

[Sauru]

I never dismiss Jordan, Andrew. I just can't put him ahead of Wilt & Russell. That's not so bad, is it?

I know you don't, I didn't mean to suggest that. But a lot of people do suggest he wasn't even a top 10 player during his era. I think a lot of people do dimiss him rather readily, strangely enough people who didn't see Wilt or Jordan play.

i just dont like the people who already call a hand full of current nba players better than jordan. it kinda makes me sick to my stomach when i think of how dumb these people actually are.

[cyanide]

you just can't compare, 2 guys in 2 different era! 1 guy in 60's and another guy is the 90's and there's alot of changes from 60's to 90's.... you just can't do it...

Nice first post, and welcome to the NLSC!

[j.23]

i just dont like the people who already call a hand full of current nba players better than jordan. it kinda makes me sick to my stomach when i think of how dumb these people actually are.

i agree
there are some nights where some players are able to match jordans unbelievable offensive output in the past but i've never seen a player in this generation that can clamp down the other teams star players like jordan and pip did

[Sauru]

you just can't compare, 2 guys in 2 different era! 1 guy in 60's and another guy is the 90's and there's alot of changes from 60's to 90's.... you just can't do it...

its gonna bug me seeing you post around here. lol nothing personal but i use the name apoc for everything except this forum. so when i see it i will think its me lol

[Andrew]

i just dont like the people who already call a hand full of current nba players better than jordan. it kinda makes me sick to my stomach when i think of how dumb these people actually are.

I think part of that is due to the fact the NBA is really pushing all kinds of players as being the face of the NBA. I don't think the transition between the 90s and the current era in terms of superstars and "star power" was as smooth as previous decades. The league is still struggling a little to establish a few star players who are not only clearly the best players in the league, but are also capable of being prominent personalities.