Shareef Abdur-Rahim to the Nets!!!

[Andrew]

On paper it's a better lineup than the 2003 squad, but I'm skeptical as to whether they could achieve the same or better results. One thing's for certain, should they acquire 'Reef it's yet another shrewd move that makes their 2004 offseason decisions look a lot better.

[Fresh8]

But remember that Kidd makes all of his teammates better. As someone has said, his experience and smarts wont be taking any hit with age... so if the nets did get Reef, that would actually be pretty promising. If chemistry is able to be sorted out and everyone plays and all, they could be a surprise.

[J@3]

I'd take that lineup over the Pacers lineup anyday actually. I know Indy thinks Tinsley is a hall of famer or whatever, but lets take a look at that roster... if you think Kidd's ageing, Vince is inconsistant and not a winner and Shareef is awful..

C: Who? Foster? Harrison? Exactly.
PF: Jermain - Good player, except when he's injured then turns into Marcus Fizer
SF: Artest - Wasn't he just suspended for almost an entire season? Complete headcase.
SG: Jackson - The NBA's very own black hole, also has personality issues.
PG: Tinsley - Constantly injured, every now and then has a few good games then dies again.

Never underestimate the impact a proven veteran can have on your team chemistry... I know you keep saying they've been preparing for life without Reggie, but it just doesn't happen like that. They can replace what he does on the court through his play, but they can't replace what he brings to the team as a person.

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

As already said , that Nets' lineup (IF Reef signs, that is. And that's a bif IF... ) is really good on paper, but they need to sign another bigman for their bench, a bruiser/rebounder type, the likes of Reggie Evans or Danny Fortson. The frontcourt of Nenad/Rahim/Collins is WAY TOO SOFT to withstand a playoff run.

[Indy]

C-DD/Foster/Harrison- 3 big men who can rebound and bang with anyone. This trio will punish people day in and day out. DD has an amazing ability to make people miss without blocking their shot. Foster led the league in rebounds per 48 minutes. Harrison is a very young guy who will be a top Center in the East soon.

PF- Jermaine- When healthy is the best PF in the East, and is right behind Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett. Just look at the numbers.

SF- Ron Artest- When his head is screwed on straight (It will be this year) he can stop anybody in the league. Period. He can also put up 25 points if he wants to, but that's not his role on the team. So next year he will put up 18-20 just like he did in 04.

SG- Stephen Jackson- Showed that he can be an outstanding player last year. Made many many clutch shots, and if it weren't for him the Pacers wouldn't have even made the playoffs. When he needs to step back and play his role he can, and he is a proven winner.

PG- Jamaal Tinsley- My o my how short people's attention spans are. Tins practically single handedly beat teams during the suspension. When he is healthy (he is healthy now for the first time in a long time) he is a top 5 point guard in the league.

Bench
pg-AJ (great backup, played huge last year)
sg- Fred Jones (excellent scorer, showed his potential to be an outstanding NBA player during the suspensions, but was hurt during the playoffs)
sf- Danny Granger/James Jones (I don't even need to say anything else, no team is deeper at the SF position.)

I don't even need to go any further, the Pacers are flat out better then the Nets.

[Amphatoast]

lol i love the biased posting

Kidd>> Tinsley
VC >> Jackson
RJ= Artest
Shareef << JO
Kristie < DD
nets win

also 3 all stars compare to 2

[Indy]

Kidd = Tinsley (When Tinsley is healthy, and at Kidds age)
VC > Jackson
Jefferson <<<<< Artest (Thats hilarious that you would call them a wash)
Shareef <<<<<< JO (Not even close)
Kristic < DD or Foster or Hulk

Bench for the Nets <<<<<< Bench for the Pacers.

The Nets have one player better then the Pacers, and its not a huge disparity like it is at all the other positions.

But, I see all of you are hatin on the Pacers, and to be honest, that makes me smile. I'll revive these threads next year when the Pacers win it all, and you all will be eating crow

[fgrep15]

While I do think the Pacers are better, the criticism against the Nets are not accurate. You call Vince inconsistent, then what are JO, Artest and Jackson? JO is a PF who has shot 45% and 43% the past 2 seasons, SG numbers, and he's not taking any three's. Carter is a more efficient scorer thant JO.

Artest is a decent offensive player, but he's not been consistent or efficient in his scoring his whole career, and this year he played 7 games, and was obviously not going to keep those numbers up. Putting up 25 PPG for 7 games doesn't make him capable of doing that because their's many players who can have short stretches of excellence. Stephen Jackson, I don't need to say anything about that, so out of their 3 main scorers, not is consistent or really efficient.


If I was to compare the Rosters:

Kidd >> Tinsley - Tinsley is good, but experience can do a lot for a player, and Tinsley's decision making is still not where it needs to be

Vince >>>> Jackson - I don't know what the comparison is here, Vince is a much better offensive player, shooter, passer, he's even a better rebounder. Jackson is slightly better defensively, but that gives him nothing in this comparison.

Jefferson << Artest - Jefferson is the slightly better offensive player, but Artest is a lot better defensively, though Jefferson is a good defender himself. The margin is not that big, they're both All-Star caliber players

Shareef <<< Jermaine - Shareef is just as good an offensive player as Jermaine O'neal, but defensively and on the glass, he's far away from him. Shareef is a better passer, shooter, and equal scorer, but Jermaine is right there offensively, and destroys him on defense.

Kristic = DD | Foster | D.Harrison - Small margin here, Kristic is a much better offensive player than all, but DD and Foster are better rebounders, and defenders, and Hulk a better shot blocker. Kristic is better than Harrison, but I'd rank DD and Foster right there with him because of the large rebounding edge.

[J@3]

I didn't read through Indy's comparisons but I'm guessing they'll look something like this...

Tinsley >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kidd (When Fit, Tinsley is the best PG ever seen)
Jackson >> Carter (Ok, ok this one's a bit closer but Jackson is better because.)
Artest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jefferson (OMG how can you compare someone with Artests greatness to anyone like Jefferson, I mean it's not as if he was averaging 25/7/7 for the first quarter of the season)
Jermaine >>>>>>>>>>>(x 500000) Shareef (No explanation needed, only slightly worse than KG and TD)
DH|Foster >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kristic (He's a foreigner, I mean, come on now)

We are the greatest team in the World. We will go 82-0 this season, mark our words.

[Amphatoast]

Kidd = Tinsley (When Tinsley is healthy, and at Kidds age)
VC > Jackson
Jefferson <<<<< Artest (Thats hilarious that you would call them a wash)
Shareef <<<<<< JO (Not even close)
Kristic < DD or Foster or Hulk

jackson is no where nice as VC so add some >>>>> that. It's worst that the JO to Shareef comparison.

and according to fgrep15 comparison nets win by 2 >

[J@3]

Lol@the amount of <<<<<<'s between Artest and Jefferson, that's just stupid. The Kidd = Tinsley is a bit suspect aswell.

[Indy]

Richard Jefferson can't even hold Artest's jock strap.

Kidd and Tinsley's numbers are very similar, and Tinsley's are better when he's healthy.

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

Kidd and Tinsley's numbers are very similar, and Tinsley's are better when he's healthy.

Okay, it was fun up until this point. Equating Kidd to Tinsley is close to commiting sacriledge. Please.

[FendeR`]

Richard Jefferson can't even hold Artest's jock strap.

Artest could hold everyone's while he was sitting on the sideline this season.

Kidd and Tinsley's numbers are very similar, and Tinsley's are better when he's healthy.

Kidd undoubtedly is a better passer, which is his game. If you want to say Tinsley is a better scorer go ahead. But Kidd much more effectively makes his team better, no question.

[NNpF]

He's not going to give up, he's a psyhco Pacers fan (no offense)

We all have our favorite teams and players and their are the people who will fight for their team no matter how bad the situation is, and I'm one of those.

I'm just not as bad as Indy, I'm not saying that he is wrong, but I just know when to admit I'm wrong.

(By the way Indy, this post wasn't meant to offend you in any way, just in case you took this the wrong way)

[J@3]

I don't know where this Ron Artest infatuation has come from... he had a good season, 2 seasons ago and last season let the entire team down by getting himself suspended for the rest of it. He wasn't exactly showing great dedication to getting back on the court for the Pacers either, and you can't blame him with his big career as a music mogul and all

[Indy]

We all have our favorite teams and players and their are the people who will fight for their team no matter how bad the situation is, and I'm one of those.

Bad situation??? The situation couldn't be better!!! We finally have a healthy team, our star player is back (with his head screwed on straight) and we got a top 10 talent in the draft.

I couldn't be happier and more excited.

And, pretending Kidd is still a star at this stage in his career is laughable. Kidd is over the hump. Tinsley is just reaching his prime. If New Jersey offered Kidd for Tinsley right now, I would think about it long and hard, but I think if I was guarenteed Tinsley would stay healthy I would reject that trade. Kidd has one year left to start, then he's finished. He won't even start anymore and his career will fade away. Tinsley will have made a big splash in the NBA by the team his career comes to an end, and I think he will have a few rings.

[J@3]

Over the hump? His stats this season weren't much different to the last 3 or 4. He might be a bit slower, but it's not as if Tinsley's exactly the healthiest player in the NBA. Tinsley on the other hand hasn't played much more than 1/2 of an NBA season for a while now and hasn't really done anything of note either.

[Indy]

I know Tinlsey has injury history. That's why I'm all for bringing in a guy like Saras.

[EGarrett]

Anyone want to talk about the Nets?

Their main weakness used to be halfcourt scoring, but with Reef they'll be able to score in the halfcourt just as easily as on the break. Krstic is also going to become a good center.

Some of the Pacer comparisons have been rather crazy.

But anyway, I think they'll surpass the Heat.

With Shaq healthy, the Heat are a title threat. But Shaq is rapidly declining, so I don't see the Heat being good for very long. Shaq is still an unstoppable post presence, but he's become pretty average on the boards and can't block shots anymore.

Carter is rejuvenated, he's a legit 30 point guy and go-to scorer now. If Jefferson accepts the role as the defensive stopper (which all good teams need), then Carter can save more energy for offense as well.

How can you imagine chemistry problems with Kidd running the team? The main problem will be the lack of a good shotblocker, but they're athletic enough to be able compensate somewhat.
Detroit isn't going to be nearly as dangerous without Larry Brown next year. They'll still be very good but they'll be beatable...especially considering how often they went down 3-2 even with Brown.

[Jackal_]

If you ask me I'd have to say Artest is too over-hyped..although he is an amazing defensive player but thats about it..

I'd have to go with Jae on this argument, I just dont understand why some feel the need to convince others that he's this "superstar".

Oh, and for EGarretts sake; Go Nets!

[NNpF]

Anyone want to talk about the Nets?

Their main weakness used to be halfcourt scoring, but with Reef they'll be able to score in the halfcourt just as easily as on the break. Krstic is also going to become a good center.

Some of the Pacer comparisons have been rather crazy.

But anyway, I think they'll surpass the Heat.

With Shaq healthy, the Heat are a title threat. But Shaq is rapidly declining, so I don't see the Heat being good for very long. Shaq is still an unstoppable post presence, but he's become pretty average on the boards and can't block shots anymore.

Carter is rejuvenated, he's a legit 30 point guy and go-to scorer now. If Jefferson accepts the role as the defensive stopper (which all good teams need), then Carter can save more energy for offense as well.

How can you imagine chemistry problems with Kidd running the team? The main problem will be the lack of a good shotblocker, but they're athletic enough to be able compensate somewhat.
Detroit isn't going to be nearly as dangerous without Larry Brown next year. They'll still be very good but they'll be beatable...especially considering how often they went down 3-2 even with Brown.

And I think he can do that, I don't see why people think Kidd is the only good defender on the team. He is the best defender on the team but Jefferson is no pushover, and he's getting better.

Some of you are forgetting how young Jefferson is and how much he improved from year to year in nearly every aspect of the game.

With a player like Kidd the only thing age will do is make him more injury-prone and maybe a bit slower. But it's been said many times before Kidd's game is all about how well he uses his mind, and that won't be affected much by age until he's at least 60-65 years old.

Carter is obviously rejuvenated with the Nets. During the second half of the season he was the most unstoppable perimeter player in the league. If he can take the ball to the hoop a little more often he can easily return himself to his old form.

Krstic is still very, very young, but he still showed signs of being a very good player last season. He obviously will still have lots to learn but he seems to be a quick learner, I think he will be a good post player pretty soon.

Jason Collins is one of the most underrated player I have ever seen. Most people think he's just on the court to take up space, but he is a very smart defender. A lot of people don't see how hard he works so a player like Shaq or Yao can't get the ball in a good position, or how hard he makes them work just to recieve a pass in the post. He's not that good a rebounder or offensive player but he can be useful coming off the bench.

As I said earlier, if Shareef comes inte New Jersey knowing his role they can be a top team in the east, if not, I don't think we'll be all that bad anyways.

our star player is back (with his head screwed on straight)

How many times have we seen Artest apologize and how many times has he come back and kick his own team in the ass with a stupid decision. I'll believe he's changed when I see it, not just because he said he changed.

[Jackal_]

As I said earlier, if Shareef comes inte New Jersey knowing his role they can be a top team in the east, if not, I don't think we'll be all that bad anyways

I agree to a certain extent, NJ is not a bad team at all, they just had no chemistry this recent season, usually common when you throw a player of Carter's calibre into a team, you need time to build around him and get a feel for it.

But, to make the whole process quicker you need someone like Shareef. Any team in the NBA could use a player like him. Hard working and experienced. You really cant go wrong with him on your team imo. Now if the Nets decide not to take him then they have to focus on the main objective of building a team around Carter and Kidd. Kidd's gonna do his job well no matter who he plays for or who he plays with. Therefore imo you need to look at VC and see who works right with him.

[Indy]

How many times have we seen Artest apologize and how many times has he come back and kick his own team in the ass with a stupid decision. I'll believe he's changed when I see it, not just because he said he changed.

Well, I've followed the Pacers since 1989, and I've followed Ron Artest career since it began. And I've never seen Artest so determined to get back on the court. If you think all he's done is apologize and that's it, you're dead wrong my friend. Ron Artest lost 5 million dollars this year for one. He was in Conseco working out every single night. He practiced with the team. He just went through an entire NBA season with all of the tough stuff about it, but none of the glory. He worked out more then anyone on the team, and he is now playing in the Rookie summer league. I would be shocked if Ron had any sort of breakdown next year.

Back to the Nets.

I think Shareef was corrupted in Portland. I don't think his basketball mind is in the right place anymore. This guy was a budding superstar when he played for the Grizz, but now I just don't see it anymore. His numbers have slipped, his intensity has slipped, I just don't see that star fire anymore. I think if he goes to the Nets he will have problems with VC, and I think Kidd will have problems with him.

If he comes I could see them winning 43-47 games, and they may even win their division. But, I don't think they have any chance at all at going any further then maybe, MAYBE the second round.

[air gordon]

some interesting poll choices, EG lol... worse but still the best?

this talk of 'reef to the nets has been going on for quite a while. will it really happen?

if it does, how will he fit in with this cast? as mentioned already, he's had some nice stats but all have come on losing teams. 'reef strengths are his smooth moves midrange to the post & and getting to the foul line a lot. better then average rebounder though i'm not sure about him being a decent passer, fgrep hehe... playing with jason kidd has worked wonders for certain players though...