Bogut-Watch

[Andrew]

Female Host: Well that's great for him, I love those stories when someone's told they'll never be able to do something then they go and do it...

David: He's a 7 footer with the skills of a guard *sits looking blankly to the right of screen*

It was weird.

But in many ways, not much worse than our basketball commentators and analysts.

[J@3]

Andrew Gaze isn't that bad, I agree with him, I thought Karl Malone did a great job coaching the US World Championships team.

[Fresh8]

Tomoz he's gonna be all over tv. hehehe, baskettball will be back in australia!

[Stevesanity]

Bogut has Brown written all over him.

Basketball back in Australia?

[J@3]

You mean Kwame Brown? Yeah they do have alot in common

[Stevesanity]

You mean Kwame Brown? Yeah they do have alot in common

Yes just like how Chester Bennington had something in common with Linkin Park.

[Drex]

What a great analogy, man Bogut will not get the pressure of being drafted by one of the greatest players ever, and have to play with him

[J@3]

You mean Kwame Brown? Yeah they do have alot in common

Yes just like how Chester Bennington had something in common with Linkin Park.

? ... Kwame Brown's a high schooler drafted based on his athletic ability and potential. Bogut is absolutely nothing like this.

[Andrew]

Basketball back in Australia?

Readily available (not to mention free and/or detailed) coverage of basketball here in Australia has declined since 1998. Unfortunately for Australian basketball fans, the sport still doesn't get the respect it deserves.

[J@3]

Forgot to mention, he was picked #1 overall ... screenshots of him on NBA Live 06 are available at NBA.com. He looks like a zombie, the graphics are horrific.

[Fenix]

When I first saw the pics, I thought it was Steve Nash .

[Jugs]

When I first saw the pics, I thought it was Steve Nash .

lol i thought the same thing

he looks like a goth hoo hasn't seen the sun for 12 years in the video clip of bogut in Live 06

[COOLmac©]

autralian basketball ain't that bad, our country has never won an exhibition game against them after 1996 i guess

[Andrew]

It's not so much the quality of our players or even the NBL (though there's room for improvement to say the least), rather the coverage and respect basketball receives in Australia...or the lack thereof.

[J@3]

When you look at the most popular sports here and compare them to basketball I think it's fairly obvious as to why the NBL isn't as popular as something like the NRL. I mean with the NRL, on FTA alone we get 2 games a week + 4 NRL related TV shows. On Foxtel every single NRL game is shown. With the NBL, on FTA we get absolutely nothing whatsoever.

On another note, I spoke to a guy the other day who used to play on the same team as Luke Schenscher... he wasn't confident he'd get picked, and lord behold he didn't.

[Shakes]

It's not so much the quality of our players or even the NBL (though there's room for improvement to say the least), rather the coverage and respect basketball receives in Australia...or the lack thereof.

The NBA doesn't get coverage in Australia because it's simply not a winning proposition. The timezone problems ensure that.

For matches during the week, everyone is at work. On the weekend, there is no way a NBA game is going to come close to other sporting options (cricket and football) that are on at the same time.

Add to the fact basketball in the post Michael Jordan era attracts very little widespread interest anyway and I don't think you're going to see NBA on free to air ever.

The NBL doesn't even get coverage because nobody cares anymore. The fact that it's a financial basketcase where most teams can't last more than a decade ensures low interest. I mean how can you expect to attract loyal fans if their team keeps going bust every couple of years?

I'd say basketball gets the coverage and respect it deserves in Australia. Have you noticed how all the comercially successful sports in Australia either are pretty much only played here (Australian Rules, Rugby League) or are primarily focused on international competitions (Cricket, Rugby Union, and perhaps golf and tennis)? There's a reason for that. Soccer suffers from the same problem. If the local leagues are weak, and there's no regular meaningful international competion that Australia is part of (and importantly, competative in), then you can not expect to attract a large fanbase and prime time TV coverage.

[Andrew]

I have to disagree there. Time differences do present a problem as far as watching live games, but:

a) We have VCRs
b) There's a replay shown later in the evening

When Channel 10 was showing a game of the week and NBA Action on late at night or on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon, that's still better coverage that free to air offers these days (though that no longer affects me personally).

While I agree that the fanbase for cricket and footy are much bigger in Australia, that doesn't mean there isn't a lot of basketball fans or that basketball is an inferior sport that no one is interested in watching.

I really disagree that it gets the coverage and respect it deserves here. There is very little readily available coverage for enthusiasts; basketball magazines have become very scarce, it's hardly mentioned on free to air and most people I meet have a very negative opinion about it.

As you said, the NBL has problems and we haven't had much success in international competition, but that doesn't justify the disrespect and disdain a lot of Australians have for the game. A lot of people really seem to look down on basketball as a sport and make all kinds of ignorant criticisms of the game. To me, that's not giving the sport the respect it deserves. Perhaps the NBL would have a better following if it was more accessible to the public.

[J@3]

It has the same tag as soccer has, in that it's generally seen as a "girls sport" because large men don't grapple each other to the ground where they proceed to lie on top of the person before getting up and doing it again.

No matter what the NBL do to promote the game it's going to have absolutely zero impact because it's not shown on FTA. When it's on Foxtel, that's targetting the specialised audience who want to see basketball because there's so many channels that casual fans will just watch something on the comedy channel or whatever instead. If it was on FTA they'd reach a much broader audience because the one's just flicking through that don't want to see AFL or whatever would start watching.

[Andrew]

It has the same tag as soccer has, in that it's generally seen as a "girls sport" because large men don't grapple each other to the ground where they proceed to lie on top of the person before getting up and doing it again.

Well said. Funny thing is, when Team USA picked up that first loss in the Olympics last year and when Australia came close to beating them in the early stages of the tournament, suddenly people cared. It's weird though, considering how much Australians love an underdog and the Boomers have never exactly been favourites in international tournaments.

[J@3]

It's exactly the same as what goes on in soccer, when the World Cup qualifiers come around and Australia has to beat some South American team to qualify suddenly everyone becomes an expert on the sport, analysing the teams chances and all of that kind of shit. Then when the Aussies inevitedbly lose, they stop caring. It's sad but I think the only way to make people actually pay attention to the sport is to somehow get them to bandwagon it on a more permanent basis. Fuck knows how, but I'm in no rush... it'll be a cold day in hell before I answer another "Is Shaq still playing for Orlando?" question.

[Andrew]

It's exactly the same as what goes on in soccer, when the World Cup qualifiers come around and Australia has to beat some South American team to qualify suddenly everyone becomes an expert on the sport, analysing the teams chances and all of that kind of shit. Then when the Aussies inevitedbly lose, they stop caring. It's sad but I think the only way to make people actually pay attention to the sport is to somehow get them to bandwagon it on a more permanent basis. Fuck knows how, but I'm in no rush...

100% correct. It's also irritating how some folks will trash basketball but fiercely defend a footy player for sexual harrassment scandal after sexual harrassment scandal. Not to insult footy or all footy fans, but it's wrong to bag NBA players for their multi-million dollar contracts and "selling out" while defending footy players for inappropriate conduct...not to mention the fact all the big names in Australian sport have some kind of endorsement deals. Even Ian Thorpe.

it'll be a cold day in hell before I answer another "Is Shaq still playing for Orlando?" question.

Ah yes, I can relate to that.

[Shakes]

The NBL used to get coverage. I remember back when channel 10 showed it every weekend. Like I said, I think the NBL lacks TV coverage because it lacks popularity, not the other way around. It lost TV coverage because people lost interest in the league. I think this can be directly blamed on the financial basketcase the league is, with half the teams on the verge of bankrupcy at any given moment. You can't generate hype arround a team that people don't expect to be around for the next 5 years. The league is now reaping what it has sown.

Replays aren't the same as live TV. You're never going to have the same popularity there. I think most sports fans will agree that watching a game that you already know the result of is about 10 times less fun than being on the edge of your seat not knowing who will win. You need live coverage to get big ratings. But to get live coverage you need a base level of interest to sustain them, and in Australia the interest in basketball is just not there.

You can talk about the Australian idea that it's a "girly sport" all you like, but I think that's a cop out. In the early to mid 90s there was heaps of hype about basketball. People were interested. The real problem was it was a wave riding on the back of one man: Jordan. Perhaps the NBA is somewhat to blame for that, because at the time their international marketting attempts were not what they are today, they didn't cash in on the interest Jordan sparked and market the game rather than just one man.

So, on your complaints:

Coverage: enthusiasts aren't enough for free to air coverage. It's on pay TV, which is where a niche market like basketball in Australia belongs. Heck, the free to air TV market is tough these days, even cricket is relegated to SBS for the Ashes tests. I don't see how you can justify a gripe about no free to air coverage about basketball.

Respect: When (if?) the NBL gets its act together, maybe it will get some respect. Historically it's been a bit of a joke of a competition. I think it's got a long hard road ahead of it, given its only household name (Andrew Gaze) has retired. It's basically unmarkettable at this point. As far as the NBA goes, I wouldn't say people disrespect it. More that people don't even think about it, much like they don't think about the superbowl, or the FA cup. I'd say that the overall attitude is one of apathy, not antipathy.

I'm not sure what you expect. Channel 10 to show games even though they don't rate? Why would they do that? Especially since they can just show more crap like Big Brother which is cheap as all hell to make and rates its arse off. People to suddenly convert to basketball? Do you understand the sporting culture at all in this country? People follow the sports their parents follow, which is one or more of cricket, supercars, league, unions or aussie rules. Plus tennis if you're a chick and golf if you're rich or have illusions of sophistication. Trying to change that is futile: look at the Syney Swans: nearly 25 years in Sydney and still nobody cares about the AFL. Look at the Melbourne Storm: won a premiership in their second year and yet most Melbourners would struggle to name a single League player. These are two sports that have a way higher marketting budget than basketball in Australia.

I would love basketball to be on free to air TV. I'll watch just about any sport, I find most of them fascinating in their own right (lawn bowls and poker championships included). But I'm realistic about what I'm actualy going to get to see.

[Jowe]

where are all those people who said about half a year ago that Bogut wasn't a top 5 pick or even a lottery pick when Jae, Sit, I and all the other Aussies pegged him as a mid-to-high lotto pick?!?

Sit? He was a hater til he bandwagoned.


I was saying Bogut would be number 1.

[Carmo]

bullcrap shakes. i have many friends who dont even play basketball or know much about it yet they still take the time out to go to someones place who has pay tv and watch the nba. they would love it if nba was on fta. im not saying none of wot u say is true but i think that u underestimate how many people would love to see the nba on fta.

[Andrew]

The NBL used to get coverage. I remember back when channel 10 showed it every weekend. Like I said, I think the NBL lacks TV coverage because it lacks popularity, not the other way around. It lost TV coverage because people lost interest in the league. I think this can be directly blamed on the financial basketcase the league is, with half the teams on the verge of bankrupcy at any given moment. You can't generate hype arround a team that people don't expect to be around for the next 5 years. The league is now reaping what it has sown.

I think there's a little bit of chicken and the egg there. Declining interest may have led to the FTA networks (the NBL was last shown on FTA on ABC, if I recall correctly) abandoning their coverage, but abandoning the coverage did nothing to increase the interest and popularity of the league.

I agree that the NBL doesn't market itself well. Ads here in Newcastle for Hunter Pirates games often use the tag "A great family night with a game of basketball thrown in". While that appeals to the casual fan, it doesn't give the league or for that matter the game much credibility. You won't get any arguments from me there.

Replays aren't the same as live TV. You're never going to have the same popularity there. I think most sports fans will agree that watching a game that you already know the result of is about 10 times less fun than being on the edge of your seat not knowing who will win. You need live coverage to get big ratings. But to get live coverage you need a base level of interest to sustain them, and in Australia the interest in basketball is just not there.

Right again, replays and recordings aren't as exciting as live coverage because chances are you know the result or at least are aware that the outcome has been decided when you watch it. But as I said, I think a late night slot will still appeal to the hardcore basketball fans. Having some FTA coverage is more likely to draw a following than no FTA coverage at all.

You can talk about the Australian idea that it's a "girly sport" all you like, but I think that's a cop out. In the early to mid 90s there was heaps of hype about basketball. People were interested. The real problem was it was a wave riding on the back of one man: Jordan. Perhaps the NBA is somewhat to blame for that, because at the time their international marketting attempts were not what they are today, they didn't cash in on the interest Jordan sparked and market the game rather than just one man.

True, the worldwide popularity of the NBA during the "Michael Jordan era" affected Australia's interest too. But that still doesn't really explain the negative attitude Australians seem to have towards the sport in general.

Coverage: enthusiasts aren't enough for free to air coverage. It's on pay TV, which is where a niche market like basketball in Australia belongs. Heck, the free to air TV market is tough these days, even cricket is relegated to SBS for the Ashes tests. I don't see how you can justify a gripe about no free to air coverage about basketball.

Well I probably can't as I do have Foxtel. But the justification I'd offer is that there are a lot of basketball fans in Australia, not everyone has Foxtel and that's the only place to get any basketball coverage. Though with free to air right now, reality TV rules all, even quality scripted television (your sitcoms, your dramas etc) are pre-empted in favour of Big Brother and so on. It's ridiculous how FTA networks hold back new episodes of shows, interrupting the season run to show a bunch of reality shows that continue to drop in the ratings year after year.

Respect: When (if?) the NBL gets its act together, maybe it will get some respect. Historically it's been a bit of a joke of a competition. I think it's got a long hard road ahead of it, given its only household name (Andrew Gaze) has retired. It's basically unmarkettable at this point. As far as the NBA goes, I wouldn't say people disrespect it. More that people don't even think about it, much like they don't think about the superbowl, or the FA cup. I'd say that the overall attitude is one of apathy, not antipathy.

As far as the NBA's concerned, I guess you could say apathy. But talking about the sport in general, it goes beyond the professional game. Obviously, the professional leagues have quite an impact on the profile of the game but people discredit the game in general. That's really what I mean about the sport of basketball not getting the respect it deserves, some of the criticisms people I know make of the game are quite ignorant. Needless to say it doesn't stop me being a fan or diminish my love and appreciation for basketball, but as someone who holds basketball in very high esteem I hate to hear some of the ridiculous things people say about it.

I'm not sure what you expect. Channel 10 to show games even though they don't rate? Why would they do that? Especially since they can just show more crap like Big Brother which is cheap as all hell to make and rates its arse off. People to suddenly convert to basketball? Do you understand the sporting culture at all in this country? People follow the sports their parents follow, which is one or more of cricket, supercars, league, unions or aussie rules. Plus tennis if you're a chick and golf if you're rich or have illusions of sophistication. Trying to change that is futile: look at the Syney Swans: nearly 25 years in Sydney and still nobody cares about the AFL. Look at the Melbourne Storm: won a premiership in their second year and yet most Melbourners would struggle to name a single League player. These are two sports that have a way higher marketting budget than basketball in Australia.

I do understand the way sporting culture works, though as a country that loves sport I don't get why basketball is so hated. I admit I'm biased, but I consider it to be a great game, it's a spectator sport that's got a huge worldwide following so it's not as though basketball fans are some weird cult. I suppose one reason it hasn't been adopted is because it's not "Australian", but then neither are the sports we consider to be "ours". As you mentioned before, success is another factor but I still think that's a weak excuse for people to bag basketball, going against the whole ideals regarding underdogs and "battlers".

How about a recap show, NBA Action being the obvious choice? Surely, that level of coverage would go a little way in satisfying rabid basketball fans that don't have pay TV.