Top 50 List (End of 04-05)

[Matt]

i would say so....that would mean more ball for Odom and less predictable play.

[Jackal]

Yes, there's a difference between being forced into the passing mentality than just having it. If everyone could be just as good, Marbury would be like Kidd. He's not because he doesn't have the passing mentality. Kidd does.

Likewise, LeBron's born with that mentality, Kobe isn't. He's been forced to take it upon himself, it's not natural for him.

[NNpF]

I'll make a list but only top 10, because I'm really lazy .

Here I go:

1) Tim Duncan
2) Kevin Garnett
3) Shaquille O'neal
4) LeBron James
5) Kobe Bryant
6) Dirk Nowitzki
7) Tracy McGrady
8) Allen Iverson
9) Jason Kidd (Got to have my man on the list, whether you like it or not )
10) Steve Nash

[Keo]

Why do all of u have Duncan before KG??

[Amphatoast]

duncan- 2 rings, 2 MVP (possibly 3rd this year)
KG- 0 rings, 1 MVP

[Keo]

Ya but we're talkin currently.

[The GOAT]

I like Duncan better because he is pure fundamentals and isn't a jerk. KG is the opposite of both of those.

[Amphatoast]

Spurs 38-10 (Best in NBA)
T'wolves 24-23 (9th in West currently)

don't look at duncan numbers. He is a team player and less of a stat guy.

[fgrep15]

Check out the FG% of the new aqcuired players and compare them from over the years, then tell me again he doesnt make them better.

Huh? Hasn't Chucky Atkins been shooting like 48% since Kobe got injured? He's also been averaging 19.8 points, 6.2 assist a game, and a 59.3% TS. With Kobe he was averaging 11.4 points, 3.9 assists, and 54.9% TS

Without Kobe vs With Kobe

Chucky Atkins: 19.8 points, 6.2 assists, 59.3% TS vs 11.4 points, 3.9 assists, 54.9% TS

Caron Butler: 18.2 points, 52% TS vs 13.6 points, 52.3% TS

Lamar Odom: 17.2 points, 4.9 assists, 51.4% TS vs 14.5 points, 2.9 assists, 54.3% TS

Chris Mihm: 10.5 points, 50.2% TS vs 10.9 points 55.6% TS

Jumaine Jones: 65.3% TS vs 53.9% TS

The only player that's doing worse without Kobe is Chris Mihm, and he's hardly doing worse. Caron Butler is scoring more and getting to the line more, but is 0.3% less efficient in his scoring

Odom is scoring more, getting more assists, but has a 2.9% drop in his scoring efficiency.

Chucky Atkins is doing much much better, he's scoring more, getting more assists, and has increased his scoring efficiency by 4.4%

Jumaine Jones has increased his scoring efficiency by 11.4% with Kobe out, I don't know, define "better".

Ya but we're talkin currently.

Currently, Minnesotta struggling to make playoffs, Spurs #1 in League.

[John WB]

I'd put LeBron before Kobe. LeBron makes his teammates better. Kobe doesn't.

Not that that's the only criteria.

Check out the FG% of the new aqcuired players and compare them from over the years, then tell me again he doesnt make them better.

Look at the minutes too and I'm sure they're up.

He doesn't make his teammates better.

[.]

I'd put LeBron before Kobe. LeBron makes his teammates better. Kobe doesn't.

Not that that's the only criteria.

Check out the FG% of the new aqcuired players and compare them from over the years, then tell me again he doesnt make them better.

Look at the minutes too and I'm sure they're up.

He doesn't make his teammates better.

FG% has nothing to do with the minutes played, actually the more you play, the more tired you get...when you get tired you miss more shots.

[Indy]

c-webb how could you put carmello above J-O???

[Garnett21]

melo sux my ass right now

0-hedo turkoglu
1-kg
2-lebron
3-duncan
4-shaq
5-t.mac
6-kobe,vince
7-a.stoudemire
8-jermaine o'neal,iverson
9-arenas,wade,nowitzki
10-marion,nash,brand,b.davis,kidd

waiting for gordon,okafor,howard and okur

[j.23]

its all opinion don't go anal

[Keo]

c-webb how could you put carmello above J-O???

Melo's having a bad year but I think he's a really good player but it is a close call...

[Indy]

Im gonna do my top 50

1.Tim Duncan
2.Kevin Garnett
3.Lebron James
4.Kobe Bryant
5.Allen Iverson
6.Shaquille Oneal
7.Jermaine Oneal
8.Tracy McGrady
9.Amare Stoudamire
10.Dirk Nowitzki
11.Gilbert Arenas
12.Dwyne Wade
13.Ray Allen
14.Michael Redd
15.Paul Pierce
16.Jason Kidd
17.Vince Carter
18.Steve Francis
19.Steve Nash
20.Ron Artest (If playing)
21.Antawn Jamison
22.Chris Webber
23.Andrei Kirilenko
24.Shawn Marion
25.Elton Brand
26.Stephon Marbury
27.Carlos Boozer
28.Jason Richardson
29.Antoine Walker
30.Larry Hughes
31.Zach Randolph
32.Richard Hamilton
33.Rashard Lewis
34.Ben Wallace
35.Rasheed Wallace
36.Manu Ginobli
37.Peja Stojakovic
38.Yao Ming
39.Al Harrington
40.Tony Parker
41.Corey Maggette
42.Jamall Tinsley
43.Latrel Sprewell
44.Grant Hill
45.Baron Davis
46.Kirk Hinrich
47.Pau Gasol
48.Brad Miller
49.Carmello Anthony
50.Troy Murphy

I think i underrated b-miller, Carmello, and g-hill.

but overall thats pretty much what i think.

im gonna think about it for a bit, but pretty soon im gonna do a top 50 of all time

[Keo]

Pretty good...Jermaine's a little too high, and Webber's too low...

But pretty good!

[Keo]

And since People are askin if i had included G-Hill, where would he be?

I'd say around #40. Ya, probably #40...

[The GOAT]

Jermaine should be 7, he's amazing. He'a also still 25 and developing an outside shot. Webber, on the other hand, is old, hurt, and past his prime.

[fgrep15]

Jermaine isn't developing and outside shot, right now he loves the outside jumper way too much. Take the ball inside JO, take it inside, please.

[Indy]

Jermaine isn't developing and outside shot, right now he loves the outside jumper way too much. Take the ball inside JO, take it inside, please.

have you even watched the pacers play?

It seems like every time jo takes the outside shot he hits it, and he still takes it inside a lot. His main shot is the turnaround jumper low in the key on the baseline.

[The GOAT]

His game is still playing inside, but the outside shot is starting to be there to compliment it. What I'm saying is that he's only going to get better and Webber is only going to get worse.

[Matt]

yeah exactly, you make JO shoot jumpers and you win games.

anyways, i put Elton Brand at 9...i thought of JO but then i said....Brand is a better mid range shooter, a better man-to-man defender (top 5 PF mos def), a better rebounder too. He reminds me of Tim Duncan a bit. It also helps that he has to face Western Conf. PF's 4 times a year to JO's 2.

42.Jamall Tinsley
43.Latrel Sprewell
44.Grant Hill
45.Baron Davis
46.Kirk Hinrich
47.Pau Gasol
48.Brad Miller
49.Carmello Anthony
50.Troy Murphy

Tinsley 42=

Gasol should be higher than 47, Baron Davis = Top 10 when healthy, Sprewell should be off the list...oh and, Chauncey Billups > Tinsley, Hinrich

[The GOAT]

I would put Tinsley at 50. Billups somewhere in there, Gasol, probably 42 or 40, and Hinrich down to 49. So that would put Billups at 43

[Indy]

your right chauncy was left out because of my distain for the pistons

Jamall is one of the most underrated players in the league and heres why

when the pacers were down and out there for awhile, jamall made guys like fred jones, james jones, david harrison better. he can play the point guard position better then alot of people in t his league, ive had a chance to watch him play ALOT and i am impressed every time.