Yakkety-Yakk, Don't Talk Shaq! (SLAM Magazine)

[J@3]

but then i thought about it and over time, is it kobes fault? Shaq was the one who wanted an outrageous extension, he wanted to be first informed on all team moves. He wanted to much.Shaq, as great as he is, he's not bigger than Michael Jordan

Exactly. Kobe Bryant (or Cobi Brient) isn't the GM of the Los Angeles Lakers. He can't walk into an office and say "I want Phil Jackson gone, and I want Shaq traded to Miami in a really lop-sided trade even though we probably could've got Nowitzki from Dallas... but I don't want to play with him, so I'm not interested in that". It's not upto Kobe, sure as a star player he's got some influence but at the same time he doesn't run the Lakers. Shaq has to be realisitc, sure he's an awesome player but for someone who's coming to the end of their career to demand such a high contract, which would've prevented LA from signing any free agents for the next 200 years isn't right. And lets face it, if Shaq wasn't traded he wouldn't be getting into shape and he wouldn't be talking about how much he's going to dominate. He seems to become de-motivated after a few seasons.

[J@3]

awww shit

As for this thread, I don't know if I've ever seen Dre this fired up even on the old forum! Damn. And Jackal will probably write the biggest essay we've ever seen on this forum! God damn, make some coffee people!

a massive flame war that doesn't directly involve Matthew or me, what is the World coming to?

[Stevan]

Yeah I was gonna say Jae, how come you're not involved?

To be fair I don't think Jackal was trying to be racist. He was just trying to be funny and shit. He is like Shaq, he has a big ass mouth

It's all love and peace!

[Matthew]

I don't know what the fuck Shaq's talking about in that article. Miami still need a couple of pieces to compete for the title. Still Shaq has a few good years left, and Miami can probably win a title before he's done.

I think they're ok, especially if they get malone. Shaq and Samaki Walker have been on the same team, and wade and eddie jones are as good of a backcourt athletically in the east as anyone.

Jae, I agree with what you said, but you indirectly hit on my biggest problem with the shaq trade: what they got back. Kobe does dominate the ball alot, and lamar odom(the biggest peice of the trade for la) is a playmaker with the basketball.. but will that work? kobe and odom? odom wont be able to post up much in the east with duncan, yao, and kg patrolling the paint, so whats lamar gonna do? Butler? He struggled sharing the ball with wade, hows that gonna work with kobe, and brain grant is so overpaid, if anyone uses the lakers in dynasty mode they should trade him to a team under the cap for the worst player available.

a massive flame war that doesn't directly involve Matthew or me, what is the World coming to?

mumble mumble mumble ima be mo dominant than evah

[Fresh8]

if anyone uses the lakers in dynasty mode they should trade him to a team under the cap for the worst player available.

- Oh I'll be doing that! Grant is gonna be traded for Mark MAdsen! Oh yeah!

Jae, I agree with what you said, but you indirectly hit on my biggest problem with the shaq trade

- So true! We could have gotten so much more!

AND no steven... this is war! lol

[John-John Joe]

Wow this thread exploded. My thoughts on shaq:
The man is an absolute legend, his size and skills (which are still overlooked unbelieveably) are amazing. I'll never forget the level of excellence he achieved in 2000 and 2001.

He is outspoken, but I like that from an athlete. I can't stand players that say what people want them to say. I love it when a player (or anyone for that matter) gets up and says somthing becuase they believe in it.. not for attention, not for admiration, but becuase they believe it.

IMO, Shaq was hurt alot more than he let on by the lakers getting rid of him. Remember the sunday conversation on sportscenter? He pretended to be vengeful and all that... but he was hurting. "When I first started playing, I always thought that a guy like Shaquille O’Neal would be untradeable. However, if you look at the history of the game, sometimes it happens to the best of them. When Dominique Wilkins got traded, I was sick. When Patrick Ewing got traded, I was really sick. You know what I’m sayin’? When Jerry Krause didn’t want to take care of Mike, and fired Phil, I was very sick. So this tells me there’s no loyalty in sport, and I understand that. And being that you understand that, you know how to deal with it."

I think Shaq was hurt that he got dealt, and i was as weel and i dont even like the lakers. I hated kobe for it.. but then i thought about it and over time, is it kobes fault? Shaq was the one who wanted an outrageous extension, he wanted to be first informed on all team moves. He wanted to much.Shaq, as great as he is, he's not bigger than Michael Jordan. MJ even had his limits. The bulls pulled the plug on the championship team after the lockout. And Jordan never was given gm-type powers with the bulls, except when the bulls wanted to bring in rodman, when management asked pippen and jordan what they thought. Shaq did want too much. But i think the lakers could have done more to ease the situation, like trying to talk to him, and if shaq refused, then fuck him. But this isn't kobes fault.

I cant wait till the heat/lakers game tho.. i havent been this hyped for a regular season game since the rockets played the bulls in 97, when the rockets had just got barkley and te bulls were still as dominating as ever.

Wussup Camby, yet another member from back in the days that I had great intelligent debates with! Great, back to basketball instead of bullshit....

Reading your post I think you have forgotten one teensy-weensy thing:It was Shaquille Rashaun O'Neal who DEMANDED to be traded so how in the world could he be hurt by that? In fact, wasn't it Shaq who supplied a list of teams that he found acceptable to be dealt to? Let's not lose sight of actual events here.....

He listed teams such as Dallas, Sacramento, Miami, Orlando, New Orleans and a few other "warm weather" cities. Just read the interview once more:

- on one hand, he was shocked and dismayed that Kupchak dealt him (That's what you wanted Shaq)

- then he eludes to the fact that Shaunie O'Neal always wanted a home on the beach in Miami

Shaquille should give himself a new nickname: "The Big Contradiction" Look at the facts:

- Shaq had a grandfathered contract and wanted an extension before it ran out, why? Because of the stipulations of the original contract signed in 1996 before the Collective Bargaining Agreement took hold, he would have to keep extending to make the same astonomical sum of money.

A sum of money Dr. Jerry Buss simply wasn't comfortable paying O'Neal. We would have had him under contarct until 2008/9 especially based on injuries and his aversion to treadmills and low carb diets.

In January he offered Shaq $45,000,000 dollars in an extension which Shaq DENIED saying that it wasn't enough! Jerry was never close to Shaq they way that he was with Magic, Cooper, Rambis and most recently Kobe. So Dr. Buss had no problem ORDERING mitch to trade him while he vacationed in Italy leaving his GM to "sit in the fire"

- look at that Laker team last year, sure before the season started people were predicting 70 wins and the like but I knew better. Detroit effectively exposed our major weakness: LACK OF DEPTH Why was the talent level so thin once you got past the big four? HIS CONTRACT. Let's look at some numbers, shall we?

Miami Heat Salaries http://hoopshype.com/salaries/miami.htm

Shaq makes more than the rest of the team COMBINED. Shaq also makes more than the whole UTAH JAZZ, yet he wanted more $$$. Imagine the audacity, the sheer gall....

Now, how was this all Kobe's fault? Is Kobe an arrogant butt-head, yes he is. I'm a Laker fan and a Kobe fan but the truth is the truth but he had absolutely no bearing on Shaquille's situation. SHAQUILLE and his demands (money and then eventually a trade demand) had bearing on his situation.

Of course Shaq is a legend but it still doesn't afford him the right to disregard a franchise's financial situation for his own personal gain. Remember Kevin Garnett got his grand-fathered contract restructured so the franchise could acquire guys like Spree, Cassell and Olowokandi (yuck) why couldn't Shaq do the same? Do you think he's even capable of such a self-less act? And why isn't his selfishness lauded like Kobe's is? It's because Shaq has a great sense of humor and is more personable, but he's as much of a selfish butt-head as Kobe is!

Ask yourselves that while you buy into the propoganda that "Kobe got rid of Shaq." A very popular notion because Kobe is so haughty and self involved, very easy to shift the blame on someone that you don't like and never liked anyway wouldn't you agree?

All I ask is for the basketball fans here to put away the silly biases and begin thinking critically. You're free to hate Kobe as much as you want, in fact, why not cross your fingers that he gets caught under the basket for one of the Diesel's monster-jams come Dec. 25th! I understand, y'all probably can't stand Kobe the way I can't stand C-Webb (but that's another story ) You have EVERYright to!

But do not lie to yourselves intelligent basketball fans (except for Jack-Off) see the truth and speak the truth. In the immortal words of the NBA on TNT: " LET THE TRUTH BE TOLD!"

[John-John Joe]

Oh yeah one more thing:

- bear in mind that in that link where Shaq makes more than the whole team combined, the disparity will change soon...

- expect Riles to sign Snack to the extension Dr. Buss wouldn't give him, making even more $$$ than the rest of the Miami Heat combined. We should hear an announcement sometime around the start of training camp.

[Matthew]

I know shaq demanded the trade, but that was after the lakers said (to the media) that they were taking offers for shaq, that after saying they would rather let kobe walk than be in any kind of sign and trade deal. I can understand shaq being pissed at that. However, the following what you said is totally correct:

on one hand, he was shocked and dismayed that Kupchak dealt him (That's what you wanted Shaq)

then he eludes to the fact that Shaunie O'Neal always wanted a home on the beach in Miami

Lol, thats after she realised her mansion in la wasnt "big enough". whatever happened to "opposites attract"? They are totally alike

Shaq had a grandfathered contract and wanted an extension before it ran out, why? Because of the stipulations of the original contract signed in 1996 before the Collective Bargaining Agreement took hold, he would have to keep extending to make the same astonomical sum of money.

A sum of money Dr. Jerry Buss simply wasn't comfortable paying O'Neal. We would have had him under contarct until 2008/9 especially based on injuries and his aversion to treadmills and low carb diets.

In January he offered Shaq $45,000,000 dollars in an extension which Shaq DENIED saying that it wasn't enough! Jerry was never close to Shaq they way that he was with Magic, Cooper, Rambis and most recently Kobe. So Dr. Buss had no problem ORDERING mitch to trade him while he vacationed in Italy leaving his GM to "sit in the fire"

All of this is correct imo, great stuff , but of course, i dont agree with all your post.

look at that Laker team last year, sure before the season started people were predicting 70 wins and the like but I knew better. Detroit effectively exposed our major weakness: LACK OF DEPTH Why was the talent level so thin once you got past the big four? HIS CONTRACT. Let's look at some numbers, shall we?

I didn't think the lakers had a big problem in depth starting the season. Russel was still half decent the season before, starting a fair few games with jordan and the wizards. Rick Fox was still serviceable(or at least i thought that), fisher was as solid as he has ever been, 2001 not withstanding, horace grant had question marks, but only becuase he was run out of orlando. I thought he could contribute, becuase he was their starter before he was cut for an off court issue. So while shaqs contract was almost as big as his waistline, the lakers seemed to have depth. injuries fucked them up so badly. Imagine if detroit had lost the same amount of players.. they wouldnt have even made it past the nets.

Now, how was this all Kobe's fault? Is Kobe an arrogant butt-head, yes he is. I'm a Laker fan and a Kobe fan but the truth is the truth but he had absolutely no bearing on Shaquille's situation. SHAQUILLE and his demands (money and then eventually a trade demand) had bearing on his situation.

At the time, I honestly thought kobe was behind it. I thought that he could have stepping in and said "keep shaq or im not going", and the way the lakers were going about it, it seemed that the lakers were getting rid of shaq for kobe. I know this isnt true now, and I'm man enough to say that i was wrong in this case. This wasn't kobes fault.

Ask yourselves that while you buy into the propoganda that "Kobe got rid of Shaq." A very popular notion because Kobe is so haughty and self involved, very easy to shift the blame on someone that you don't like and never liked anyway wouldn't you agree?

This had nothing to do with it. As much as I dislike him, i think im fairly open minded, and thats why i came to the conclusion that he wasnt behind it.

[Fresh8]

Nicely said Dre... does anyone realise that Shaq never got on well with anyone who he thought would be a threat to his ppg???

First there was Penny... I've read in some articles which claimed Shaq disliked Penny... when he started to 'rise' (I'll try and find them!)

Then there was Eddie... Shaq drove him out of town- in return for Glen Rice who then retired

This backfired cause Kobe started to rise and turn into a more offensive players and we got the Kobe-Shaq feuds. Shaq's solution? Skip town!

Now he's got Wade! Why does he think Wade is good? He only averaged 16 ppg last season and he's young so Shaq can bully him around... convince him into giving him the ball.

I know wat Shaq's scared of... anyone capable of putting up 20 ppg at least which means less shots for him! I only wish to see MJ and Shaq together... what Shaq would do to get rid of MJ....

Wait till Wade scores 20 ppg- oh Shaq will cause a huge rift in the media!

[Matt]

I didn't think the lakers had a big problem in depth starting the season. Russel was still half decent the season before, starting a fair few games with jordan and the wizards. Rick Fox was still serviceable(or at least i thought that), fisher was as solid as he has ever been, 2001 not withstanding, horace grant had question marks, but only becuase he was run out of orlando. I thought he could contribute, becuase he was their starter before he was cut for an off court issue. So while shaqs contract was almost as big as his waistline, the lakers seemed to have depth. injuries fucked them up so badly. Imagine if detroit had lost the same amount of players.. they wouldnt have even made it past the nets.

did the Lakers have depth problems? Yes & No. Detroit played straight up man-to-man defence, barely doubled Shaq (never fully committed) and the Lakers weakness was not having anybody that was able to create for themselves except for Kobe and the Pistons did a good job on him (trying to get him to cough it up). If Detroit played like most other teams, by dbling up on Shaq then I don't think depth would be a problem

[Matthew]

Matt, the lakers lack of depth allowed detroit to play such a defense. If Karl Malone was healthy, the pistons would have been in trouble. If you want to look at the lack of depth, look past kobe and shaq. Only slava got into double figures the entire series against detroit. He got those points by hitting open midrange shots, the shots that karl malone has made a career out of.

[Incubus]

The Lakers haven`t had obviously just the best two seasons

It`s odd because the two leaders (read:Shaq and Kobe)actually almost the whole time stayed healthy.

I`d reckon Shaq created the Big Buzz around the Lakers, especially when Kobe was having sex with the girl ( we cant say raped now) and also the ugly series against Pistons in the finals. I don`t hate Shaq, but he maked me hate the Lakers.

Now with Shaq gone and only Kobe in Lakers there`s no possible chance for Lakers to achieve something this year.

God i loved to see when Shaq horrified Kobe, when he said" I`m the leader of the team, and always will be!" . Damn that was funny, when in the next game Kobe always dropped 30 . Great pair!

[Matt]

Matthew I think it goes both ways. Had Detroit played more of a focused d on Shaq the Lakers lack of depth wouldn't have really showed. But they got exposed i guess

I think I’ve got one or two centers that’ll give me—well, nobody’s gonna give me a problem—but one or two guys I really gotta get up for. Jermaine O’Neal and…uh…uh, shit, that’s about it

See, this is what pisses me off bout Shaq. He gives no respect to the team that beat and Jermaine isn't gonna do jack shit against Shaq

also Shaq talking bout Real Estate too expensive to set up a club or sumthin, how much money does he want

[TRIO DOROBO]

finally i saw a person to say anything this Shaq's whore (Jackal) dont want to see. he always want everybody believe shaq was the greatest, the most love person any thread in this forum and how arrogant and selfish kobe was. but we all know shaq is arrogant, a selfish person and a lazy, unmotivated, unprofessional player. and also whinning of the fact lakers picked kobe over this jackal-f*cker fatso. so thanks to you dre and also to sit for making this loser know the real truth that his bitch ha an uglier personality that kobe.

[Stevan]

finally i saw a person to say anything this Shaq's whore (Jackal) dont want to see. he always want everybody believe shaq was the greatest, the most love person any thread in this forum and how arrogant and selfish kobe was. but we all know shaq is arrogant, a selfish person and a lazy, unmotivated, unprofessional player. and also whinning of the fact lakers picked kobe over this jackal-f*cker fatso. so thanks to you dre and also to sit for making this loser know the real truth that his bitch ha an uglier personality that kobe.

Who invited you to jump on the bandwagon, and start talking shit about Jackal before he has even had a chance to respond! Start your own damn incoherent flame war.

[J@3]

Yeah fuck off dumbass.

[Matt]

is it me or is it getting hot in here

[John-John Joe]

finally i saw a person to say anything this Shaq's whore (Jackal) dont want to see. he always want everybody believe shaq was the greatest, the most love person any thread in this forum and how arrogant and selfish kobe was. but we all know shaq is arrogant, a selfish person and a lazy, unmotivated, unprofessional player. and also whinning of the fact lakers picked kobe over this jackal-f*cker fatso. so thanks to you dre and also to sit for making this loser know the real truth that his bitch ha an uglier personality that kobe.

Wussup Trio, to be honest my intent with this post wasn't to "expose" Shaq rather than to simply talk about his latest diatribe. Being a long time Laker fan I can remember quite clear the way Magic and Kareem (BTW, a duo that gets consistently overlooked when discussing best one two punches) when about their business in a quiet professional manner....

Magic and Kareem? Couldn't stand each other and don't care for each other now. Larry Legend and Kevin McHale? Their relationship was incredibly chilly, they never liked each other. But these four guys put aside petty differences and kept their personal stuff out of the media.

Shaq and Kobe disappointed me in this regard, letting their personal agendas get in the way of winning. It's a crying shame that they're no longer together but I feel the need to point out the truth to a new generation of b-ball fans who are being raised by sensationalism and O.B. (opinionated bullshit). They were BOTH to blame, Kobe's selfishness has been well documented so the tendency is to make him the "Fall Guy" or the scapegoat so to speak while those same people give Snack "a pass"...

I'll always tell it like it is and can put aside any personal biases to discuss things as they are and not how I want them to be.....

[John-John Joe]

The Lakers haven`t had obviously just the best two seasons

I`d reckon Shaq created the Big Buzz around the Lakers, especially when Kobe was having sex with the girl ( we cant say raped now) and also the ugly series against Pistons in the finals. I don`t hate Shaq, but he maked me hate the Lakers.

Now with Shaq gone and only Kobe in Lakers there`s no possible chance for Lakers to achieve something this year.

Hi Leddy! I'm having a few problems understanding some of your points:

- I don't even know where you were going with the Big Buzz around the Lakers, especially when Kobe was having sex with the girl....

- and don't be too sure that we won't achieve anything without Shaq. Now, I'm not fool hardy enough to say that you lose the best big man in the game and there are no significant changes. there most certainly will be.

- the concept that Kobe couldn't quite grasp is the basics of basketball. As great as he is he could never be as valuable as Shaquille because basketball is , was, and always will be a "big man's game"

- sure, Kobe is the most dominant perimeter player in the game but no way can he be as valuable as a big man who can average 2 or so blocks per game. That's just basic basketball that applies to not just Kobe but to anyone in the league. Why do you think T-Mac forced the trade to Houston?

- but on the flip side of the equation, it can be frustrating for perimeter talents like Kobe and Tracy to have a big man clogging the lane. It's all part of the normal team dynamics to have some problems in this regard.

- back to your "Lakers won't be succesful", can we beat the best player in the league (Tim Duncan) and his merry men? HIGHLY doubt it but we can definitely make the playoffs. People are really sleeping on the acquisition of Lamar Odom, he and Kobe will push the Lakers into the playoffs and probably get bounced in the first or second round.

[Jackal]

Jezus fucking christ, I spent all the time quoting and replying & then the browser crashed. I came till Sit's post, anyways, I will respond to this (all over again) tonight. I'm sure it'll be lengthy as hell. It was already lengthy as hell. I hope I'll have the patience to do it all over again.

[Nick]

Ouch.

I can vouch for Jackal... he even set his MSN status to offline while he made a huge post.

Oh well.

[TRIO DOROBO]

finally i saw a person to say anything this Shaq's whore (Jackal) dont want to see. he always want everybody believe shaq was the greatest, the most love person any thread in this forum and how arrogant and selfish kobe was. but we all know shaq is arrogant, a selfish person and a lazy, unmotivated, unprofessional player. and also whinning of the fact lakers picked kobe over this jackal-f*cker fatso. so thanks to you dre and also to sit for making this loser know the real truth that his bitch ha an uglier personality that kobe.

Who invited you to jump on the bandwagon, and start talking shit about Jackal before he has even had a chance to respond! Start your own damn incoherent flame war.

Well i guess it's not you faggot!!!

well i dont jump on the bandwagon as you always do but i already talk shit about Shaq's whore. here the link

http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~nbalive/ph ... 6&start=50

and here:

http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~nbalive/ph ... &start=100

and for you Jae

here's for you

http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~nbalive/ph ... &start=100

well for both of you, i dont hate you just this Shaq's Whore.

plus i just read this and want to share this to all of you

Rap on Kobe

O'Neal's latest rap CD, Hot In Here Part Five, includes the single You Not The Fightin' Type that takes a swipe at former Lakers teammate Kobe Bryant.

According to ESPN.com, the lyrics in the song include, "Even with wings you never as fly as me. ... You remind me of Kobe Bryant trying to be as high as me ... but you can't ... even if you get me traded ... wherever I'm at, I'm Puffy; you Mase and you're still hated."

Many close to the Lakers have speculated that Bryant was the impetus behind that trade that sent O'Neal to the Heat. Bryant has denied engineering the move.

you see this shaq was like a gay, talking and talking even rapping to dissed Kobe and this fatso show how a cry baby he was. Stop Whining Big Lazy shaq. and also i just remember Jackal and Shaq was laomst the same then i guess Jackal was also GAY????

TO dre, yeah i know what you trying to say but i was just glad that somebody fight an argument with that Sahq's whore. i think everybody or more of the people in this forum scared to make an argument coz this Jackal was good in harrassing people. he always want everybody believe in what he say.

[J@3]

Er... alrighty then

[John-John Joe]

Rap on Kobe

O'Neal's latest rap CD, Hot In Here Part Five, includes the single You Not The Fightin' Type that takes a swipe at former Lakers teammate Kobe Bryant.

According to ESPN.com, the lyrics in the song include, "Even with wings you never as fly as me. ... You remind me of Kobe Bryant trying to be as high as me ... but you can't ... even if you get me traded ... wherever I'm at, I'm Puffy; you Mase and you're still hated."

Many close to the Lakers have speculated that Bryant was the impetus behind that trade that sent O'Neal to the Heat. Bryant has denied engineering the move.

TO dre, yeah i know what you trying to say but i was just glad that somebody fight an argument with that Sahq's whore. i think everybody or more of the people in this forum scared to make an argument coz this Jackal was good in harrassing people. he always want everybody believe in what he say.

Hehehehe, they're scared to get into a debate with Jackal The next thing this guy learns about basketball will be his FIRST!

Just reading that post over and over had me shaking my head in amazement really, at the depth of ignorance and total disregard for tact or maturity. I'm glad you gave me some history there about the way he conducts himself as well as the way people react to it on this forum.....

Go on, just read that DRIVEL he posted. Referring to himself as an asshole, calling me a bitch, calling Shaquille an "ape", making assumptions about what I would or wouldn't say about Kobe, the list goes on and on. He's a silly, misguided NBA fan with the IQ of the average avocado. I'll gladly spar with that miscreant any day of the week......

Guys, and I'm talking to all members of the NLSC here. Never let anyone bully you on a message board, some imbeciles like our very own Jack-Off view forums like this as their own personal port-o-potty. Roaming about shitting on anything they don't agree with, apparently he didn't know who he was fucking with! We ALL have the right to express ourselves here without fear of retribution or childish put-downs. If you hate Kobe Bryant, Allen Iverson or SNACKuille O'MEAL then that's your prerogative say what you have to say!

[John-John Joe]

And as far as this rap nonsense goes, let's just say that Snack doesn't exactly have Nas, Jay-Z or Talib Kweli shaking in their boots!

Snack is beginning to scare me with the constant references to Kobe Bryant, he's starting to look like Eminem's "Stan"!