Report: Phil's Out, Kobe Opts

by **Steve04** on Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:39 am

PJ, we all know you're just a little mad because Shaq might be on his way out of town. I'm upset too. They should keep both of them. But to say this supporting cast would work for Kobe is as silly as saying Shaq has no gas left in the tank. That was 8 games, not an entire season. The Lakers desperately need youth, athleticism, and shooting. Or else, Shaq or Kobe, doesn't matter which they keep..well, they're going down the tubes and another playoff exit.

If Payton stays I think he's the key, they got nothing out of him in the playoffs. Although really, it's kind of funny because if Malone wasn't injured I'd think we'd have a different champion. He was the glue that held this team together, but injuries are a part of the game and now everyone in LaLa land and around the world has panicked and they're blowing everything up. Kind of sad...

by **RedTorro** on Sun Jun 20, 2004 3:27 am

Whoever gets Shaq is going to luck out because he is going to be motivated more than ever to destroy the team that traded him. If the Lakers are smart they'll banish him to the East. I've heard of several trade proposals for Shaq two of which include:

O'Neal + Artest

or

Straight up swap for KG

by **Jackal** on Sun Jun 20, 2004 3:38 am

Straight up swap for KG? Where did you hear this? OMG, KG in LA. Wow.

I actually think Kobe + KG could co-exsist. :shock:

by . on Sun Jun 20, 2004 3:42 am

Im afraid that I have to agree with you ^ RedBulls

Shaq will probably have monster games against the Lakers once the trade has been complete, showing it was a mistake or something to think about getting rid of him, and will probably have a better season then the last 2 years, depending what team will get him.

Im positive the Timberwolves wont deal Garnett for him, no way. He is their MVP and he might get better next season or have another MVP type of season like he did this year, Shaq is going downhill since 2 years ago, and the Wolves wouldnt waste their top franchise player who has alot of years left in him for someone who will miss games because of injuries every season, and will be gone in a few years. As Laker fan I would love this trade ofcourse.

by **matmat8** on Sun Jun 20, 2004 4:11 am

I don't see KG for O'neal either

Let the GM do his job, see what it ends up to be in a few years and then critisize :roll:

same for Kobe...

by **fgrep15** on Sun Jun 20, 2004 4:14 am

KG or Duncan for O'neal would NEVER happen, so anyone hoping for that needs to calm their nerves, it's just stupid for Minny or SA.

by **Jackal** on Sun Jun 20, 2004 4:22 am

I just want to see where this was suggested. A link or something Bulls? :?:

by **Amphatoast** on Sun Jun 20, 2004 5:41 am

i dont think they are dumb enough to trade young all-stars who will be here 7 years from now for a aging shaq who doesn't have 7 left in him.
but yeah, a motivated Shaq= Shaq2k or close

by **Yessie** on Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:52 am

magius wrote:i think their are two mentalities here:

1. if you cant win big, lose big and draft high.

2. a. keep kobe and hope to god that a great free agent wants to come to la (not likely, since it is the end of the la dynasty now, and after the end of dyanstys their are generally long lay offs because stars dont want to follow in the footsteps or be compared to others-- see chicago, see boston. stars generally want to leave their own legacy), b. hope you get an incredible steal in the mid-late draft, because that most likely is where the lakers will be for 7 years with just kobe. c. hope to god if you are a lottery team that you luck out and get the #1 pick in a year where their is a consensus big man at #1.

i do not foresee any championship impact big man leaving their team via free agency in the near future, save shaq. I am doubtful that la can get anywhere close to equal value via trade.

i for one would go with option #1, but that is because i know you cant win with a guard, and if you could, that guard will need a lot more support than said guard has, and i dont see la getting that anytime soon (see 2a).

la is crazy not to have stood behind shaq. like i repeatedly say, i for one prefer 3 years of title contention to 7 years of mediocrity.

is that the biggest load of crap ive heard from a laker hater in many years .. no matter how bad the lakers get they never become a lottery team. sorry but theres always players looking to come to Sunny Los Angeles and join 1 of the greatest franchises in history. i still see the laker making the playoffs next year and for years to come. winning a championship thats a different story.

by **MVP** on Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:14 am

fgrep15 wrote:KG or Duncan for O'neal would NEVER happen, so anyone hoping for that needs to calm their nerves, it's just stupid for Minny or SA.

I have to agree. Those clubs wouldn't even think about it for a minute.

As for LA...Kobe would need a sidekick similar to what MJ had in Scottie Pippen. Pippen a player who does not need to be the main player on the team but still a star player who can do anything.

by **matmat8** on Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:17 am

MVP wrote:
fgrep15 wrote:KG or Duncan for O'neal would NEVER happen, so anyone hoping for that needs to calm their nerves, it's just stupid for Minny or SA.

I have to agree. Those clubs wouldn't even think about it for a minute.

As for LA...Kobe would need a sidekick similar to what MJ had in Scottie Pippen. Pippen a player who does not need to be the main player on the team but still a star player who can do anything.

And some good big men(Longley, Rodman and co) and good point guard (Kerr, Harper and co) :wink:

by **RedTorro** on Sun Jun 20, 2004 2:50 pm

I have to disagree totally, getting Shaq would send a "we want to win now" message. With KG, winning is in the long run and with Shaq winning would be the present. Franchises like Minnesota and Indiana are starving for championships and Shaq will have a fire lit under his ass like never before. An angry Shaq is a dominant Shaq which translates to rings. If your Minny you would still have Spree, and Sam to accompany Shaq. If your Indiana, you could always figure out how to steal role players from other Eastern conference teams.

One a side note:

It's been rumored that Jerry (the Lakers owner) has offered Phil an executive position with the Lakers.

by **Fresh8** on Sun Jun 20, 2004 3:02 pm

This is all exciting. Bring on July 1rst!

Hell yeah! Chinese NT is playing Mavs Summer LeagueTeam on that day!

He can be a franchise player, though he needs a little more experience, patience and maturity in his game before he can be a successful one. It just seems that the Lakers are choosing to keep Kobe and let Shaq go when they could quite easily keep both.

Kobe without help isn't going to work out much better than T-Mac or Iverson or anyone else. Even the great franchise players through history have had their sidekicks and key role players. The depature of everyone except Kobe would leave the ranks awfully thin.

That's true for Kobe to be a franchise player- he will need to achieve the different atributes you mentioned...but Andrew...wasn't MJ as immature as Kobe at the age of 26? Also, that's why SHaq will leave via trade. Inorder to get 4 or 5 role players to play for Kobe

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Sun Jun 20, 2004 3:31 pm

Sit wrote:That's true for Kobe to be a franchise player- he will need to achieve the different atributes you mentioned...but Andrew...wasn't MJ as immature as Kobe at the age of 26? Also, that's why SHaq will leave via trade. Inorder to get 4 or 5 role players to play for Kobe

Why do you keep bringing up Michael Jordan? Yes, MJ certainly did have a similar attitude to Kobe earlier in his career and made some of the same mistakes. He didn't really have much confidence in some of his teammates, which wasn't surprising in the very early years. I don't dispute that.

I wasn't comparing Kobe to MJ, I was simply stating what would make Kobe a successful franchise player. Comparisons could be made to all the great players who were capable of being The Man. They all knew when to take over and when to defer to their teammates, a knowledge and instinct that continued to get better with experience.

With all due respect, I'm not sure why you keep bringing up MJ's early years to defend Kobe. Yes, he sometimes tried to do too much, but that doesn't change the fact that Kobe's game and ability to carry a team will benefit from some more patience and maturity. Some players don't change their ways, but I think Kobe will. He might have to endure some more disappointments first, but his basketball mind will become sharper.

by **Ataraxia** on Sun Jun 20, 2004 3:44 pm

trade shaq for Iverson,Snow and two benchies.... :lol:

well phils out...mailmans out..d-fish could be out...shaq's out...only kobe is uncertain...oh yeah i think payton will opt out and go for the money this time...
lakers are gonna really struggle this next season....its rebuilding mode for them....
dunno who will get shaq though...its really interesting...cant wait for that day shaq's trade is announced...
lakers are in a mess now....they may like win 30 games ....
i dunno Pat Riley seems interested but dunno whether he wants to move his family to la...plus if he leaves he losses the chance to get ownership(part of it) of the heat..

very interesting stuffs gonna happen.....all i care is what happens to the Spurs,Nuggets and Knicks.....i want them all to improve...spurs need support for timmy..nuggets need k-mart,sheed and have to keep camby...also should try for Q-Rich or Deshawn Stevenson.....Knicks need a good PF or C...prolly will trade out Houston for a big man...
i think the Spurs should try trade for Ray Allen....since Bowen is opting out.....cause ive had Ray-Tim partnership when i played NBA Live and its just awesome....a menace down low and a menace outside....they just seem to suit each other....better than Shaq and Kobe :lol:

Peace
NJ

by **Ataraxia** on Sun Jun 20, 2004 3:51 pm

KG for Shaq, in there dreams....MVP for shaq no way...shaq's getting older and is loosing his dominance.....i think its time they taped his mouth...just like AI ....i get annoyed when they blab on how good they are....

Duncan for Shaq also impossible....even if Jack Nicholson came into Popovich's house saying "Here's Johnny" i dont think spurs will trade TD...TD is a legend....and the perfect NBA player on all aspects...Big Fundamental for the big fat blob i dont think sooooooooooooooo :lol:

J.O+artest is mad too....Rick Carlise is not gonna be stupid to do that....i think shaq's value is not great on teams who are doing well....cause shaq is bad for chemistry and his production and power is slowing down every year now.....by another 3-4 years shaq will be worthless....just prolly a 15 ppg-10 rpg guy...... i think only someone like the Jazz might want the The Diesel.....they may trade all there rookies for him

or teams who dont have a real star player.....there are quite a few...i think he'll be traded to one of them...i dunno i'll be upset if Lakers get a superstar back for Shaq....cause like AI i think he can change a team both ways...make them good and also make them suck !!! mostly cause of there big blabbering mouths

Peace
NJ

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Sun Jun 20, 2004 3:53 pm

k08e4mvp wrote:
It just seems that the Lakers are choosing to keep Kobe and let Shaq go when they could quite easily keep both.

No they cant keep both that easy, its pretty simple in my eyes, either Shaq goes or Kobe goes. If Shaq stays, Kobe will be gone, if Kobe stays then Shaq will be gone.

Perhaps "easy" is over-simplifying and underestimating the rift between the two. It's just that big names, dominant forces and great talent have co-existed in the past. Maybe it's too late, perhaps it is impossible to keep both of them now. It should be easy to keep both of them as a dominating duo, but it seems the way management have handled the situation differently ie. so neither player feels like they've been stabbed in the back.

by **fgrep15** on Sun Jun 20, 2004 3:57 pm

Redbulls wrote:I have to disagree totally, getting Shaq would send a "we want to win now" message. With KG, winning is in the long run and with Shaq winning would be the present. Franchises like Minnesota and Indiana are starving for championships and Shaq will have a fire lit under his ass like never before. An angry Shaq is a dominant Shaq which translates to rings. If your Minny you would still have Spree, and Sam to accompany Shaq. If your Indiana, you could always figure out how to steal role players from other Eastern conference teams.

One a side note:

It's been rumored that Jerry (the Lakers owner) has offered Phil an executive position with the Lakers.

The Timberwolves got beat by the Lakers, check. The Lakers aren't going to be the same team they were last year, check.
If the Lakers were what stopped them, and they aren't going to be the same, their chances of a champioship just increased, check.

Hey you can have your hopes about Shaq for KG

by **Alcoholic** on Sun Jun 20, 2004 4:46 pm

I saw Phil Jackson himself say he was offered by Buss a position somewhere up in the Lakers organization, and it could eventually lead to him picking the new coach or something.

Report: Phil's Out, Kobe Opts

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