Lakers vs. Minnesota

[Jackal]

One best player cant beat four good players + a great coach.

[bboyk10]

what i have meant by a POST PLAYER is the player who can work in the interior, in the paint....KG 's main scoring route is the mid range jumpers he doesn't have enought strength to go inside and challenge that big body and strength of shaq's

You mean like Jordan on the Bulls?

Anyway...Andrew can vouch that before the playoffs I picked the T-Wolves to win it all. I say they go over the Lakers in 7...after all...supposedly the best player in the series wins and KG is the best player in this series.

i already stated that MJ was the only exception that basketball will ever accept, plus don't even bother comparing to MJ to KG cause or else there would be too much jordans

also, statistically, there's no doubt that KG is the best player and stuff, but consider this: he still hasn't met shaq or duncan in this year's playoffs.

1997: lost to olajuwon and charles
1998: lost to vin baker, hahaha
1999: lost to duncan
2000: lost to sheed and co.
2001: lost to duncan, AGAIN
2002: lost to mavs...wow HAHAHA
2003: lost to SHAQ

also, the reason why KG had to be so good this year is because he hasn't met a real challenge on his counterpart
1st round: nene? ewww....
2nd round: UNHEALTHY WEBBER, in fact i never saw webber playing that way...

[Amphatoast]

also, the reason why KG had to be so good this year is because he hasn't met a real challenge on his counterpart
1st round: nene? ewww....
2nd round: UNHEALTHY WEBBER, in fact i never saw webber playing that way...

Did he have Sam Cassell and Sprewell those previous years?
Was he the MVP any of those previous years?
Did he have the experience in those years as he has now?
Were the Timberwolves the #1 in the team any of those years?
Did he lead the league in rebounds those years?

This year KG feels less pressure and can work on the little things to help his team win. He won't be shutdown against the lakers that's for sure.

[bboyk10]

also, the reason why KG had to be so good this year is because he hasn't met a real challenge on his counterpart
1st round: nene? ewww....
2nd round: UNHEALTHY WEBBER, in fact i never saw webber playing that way...

Did he have Sam Cassell and Sprewell those previous years?
Was he the MVP any of those previous years?
Did he have the experience in those years as he has now?
Were the Timberwolves the #1 in the team any of those years?
Did he lead the league in rebounds those years?

This year KG feels less pressure and can work on the little things to help his team win. He won't be shutdown against the lakers that's for sure.

hell yea... 7 years of 1ST ROUND PLAYOFF EXPERIENCE. and how many times do i have to say that the main thing in the playoffs is the big man? plus, i'm not saying that KG needs to be shut down either. please read my posts THOROUGHLY and THINK BEFORE U POST

[PRoPuLsiOnDJ]

i dont think KG is the best player in the league. there's too much competition and there's really no way to tell who is better than who. we could make the same case for so many players ... KG, TD, kobe, tmac, j kidd, shaq, j oneal, etc ..... All of these players have exceptional talent and there's no way to tell who is better than who. I mean we havent seen tmac in garnett's shoes ... nor have we seen kobe in tmac's shoes. But these guys perform .. and if they have other superstar players around them ... then their teams tend to do better. And the the mvp usually comes from a winning team that has one of the best records in the league. if we look at the last five years ... KG, TD, TD, Iverson, Shaq, Malone, Jordan, Malone, etc.... You dont see any players from "OK" teams in this list. So my point is that any one of these players can be the mvp ... if only they have a good team around them. So I dont really see one player standing out from the rest of the pack.

[cunnilinguist]

if u want some real rivalries, bring hakeem olajuwon or patrick ewing at their prime.. just don't talk about it if u don't have a DOMINANT POST PLAYER it's just simple as that

what i have meant by a POST PLAYER is the player who can work in the interior, in the paint....KG 's main scoring route is the mid range jumpers he doesn't have enought strength to go inside and challenge that big body and strength of shaq's

1990 John Salley Bill Laimbeer James Edwards
1989 Rick Mahorn John Salley James Edwards Bill Laimbeer

with all due respect to the bad boys, none of the guys you have mentioned were dominant post players

the same can be said about robert parish

bboyk10- this is not the ESPN forum. or at least I hope it's not like it

[Micchy_boy]

Lakers vs. wolves??? let me see. i wont make a prediction based on being a lakers fan...

Shaq, malone, bryant and payton against garnett, spree, casell and who will be johnson (to make it balance matchup) or wally (coz he is more an scoring option.
Advantage: Lakers

now lets make it one on one

Shaq vs Johnson or Madsen or Miller or Trent (oh well lets make it shaq against all 4 of them)
Scoring-wise no match shaq will dominate them all even on defense coz the 4 have limited scoring ability
Advantage: Lakers

Malone vs. KG
Reigning MVP vs Former MVP. Kg playing his best career this season and less pressure in carrying his team. malone maybe the best Pf in NBA but age and injury slow him down. But he gave duncan good defense in the last 4 wins of lakers (though it was a team defense). and Kg is quicker than the slow duncan so malone will have a hard time guarding him.
Advantage: Wolves

George vs. Spree
Spree can shoot, can penetrate and make a move on his one not like George who can create a scoring opportuinity on his own, he must be set-up to be effective. George like to shoot 3 and we all know if the george is a confidence player. it means that if george make his first shot, he can will make his other shot but if his 1st shot mised then the hoop became smaller for him and will definetely have a bad shooting night. and remember in the 4 regular season match up spree burned the lakers with his scoring. in this series his match up against george will be on his side but maybe 1 game will be in favor of george
Advantage: Wolves

Bryant vs. Hassell or Wally
Hassell will have hard time against kobe. though he proved he can be a very good defensive player as we saw him against peja. but peja is definitely not kobe. kobe can shoot in and outside. penetrate the basket, hang time in mid-air, shoot fadeaway and 3's as well as forced shot plus a clutch player. hassell will not be a first option on scoring maybe the last. so it will be an offense vs. defense match-up. if its kobe vs. wally offense vs. offense then this will be advantage to kobe.
Advantage: Lakers

Payton vs. Cassell
this will be the drucial match-up i guess. who players will carry or handle his team well will definitely had the advantage. Payton struggling in playoff with few best or good games on his belt vs. Cassell have a few great game but strugge lately due to back spasm injury.
Advantage: Even (maybe lakers slightly due to cassell injury)

Lakers Bench vs. Wolves bench
This is another crucial match-up. lets make it fisher vs. wally. fisher proving he can be a clutch player while wally coming from injury reminded us that he was the second scoring option last year.
Notable players on each side Fox, Rush, Slava vs. Hoiberg, Madsen and trent.
Advantage: Lakers

in overall i think lakers had the advantage coz of their experince in playoff plus they have 4 future hall of fame plus maybe a deep bench. Only problem i guess is which lakers team will we see in this series, the lakers we see that beat the spurs 4 straight game in last series, or the lakers that was dis-array, full of ego and full of off-court issue. Wolves on the other hand must have a close perfect game to beat the lakers in the series. but they also have homecourt advantage but lakers will steal 1 game in there.

so this is my prediction.
Lakers in Six

[Alcoholic]

I'm not really sure about the KG Malone matchup. Malone is a bigger guy, so KG will probably try to go around him and shoot jumpers and such (rather than backdown). And I'll bet Malone will more than once knock the ball when KG goes for the shot, so I'm not really sure how its gonna play out.

[Bang]

History and playoff experience does matter in basketball. How many times have you seen a 7-time first rounder go to the finals? I know it's a totally different team, but the core is still Garnett. It took shaq a long time to go all the way to the championship round.

Can't they just use what they used on mr. boring (tim duncan) on KG? They aren't too different. Yes, KG has more rebounds, he's more athletic, "HE RULED IN GAME 7 MAN", "YOU SEE THE REGULAR SEASON RESULTS DUDE???!!", "HE WON THE SEASON MVP" yes I know I know. But then again only one game was really against Duncan and Lakers lost that game. Yet the Lakers won playoffs.

Let's just set this straight.
1.) Playoffs are TOTALLY different from regular season.
2.) What happened in the last game versus the twolves?
3.) Where's Hudson?
4.) The Lakers will probably use the same tactic they used on Duncan on KG.
5.) The Lakers had a huge wake up call from Spurs
6.) Shaq rules the paint. Say whatever you want. I've heard everything from "We're going to foul him to death" to "Gary Trent can limit him to 20" (eh? yea that one really made no sense...)
7.)K-O-B-E. K-O-B-E. B-R-Y-A-N-T. You think Hasell can guard him? Casell? Even Bowen, the dirty old droopy dog couldn't contain him. You think Casell or Hasell can?
8.) Karl Malone and Gary Payton has stepped up.
9.) You know we added Karl Malone and Gary Payton.
10.) They subtracted Troy Hudson...
11.) Let's say KG improved 1.5 times. He didn't but for all arguments sake I'll just say he did.
12.) We do have someone called Phil Jackson...Gee? You know he has 9 championships right?

Lakers '03 vs. KG '03 = Lakers win.

Lakers '04
Additions
- Karl Malone
- Gary Payton
Subtractions
- Mark Madsen...who did limit KG pretty well.

KG '04
Additions
- Sam Casell
- Latrell Sprewell.
- 50% of Garnett.
Subtractions
- TROY HUDSON
- 50% of Wally Sczczerbiak(ag...how the hell you spell his name?)
-Kandi (um...yea he was an addition but he stinks...you know that..)

Kobe - whatever they can give him = 90% Kobe
Casell - GP = 5% Casell at MOST (Casell is injured...YOU KNOW?)
KG - Malone = 50% Garnett
Shaq - insignificants = 150% Shaq cuz the insignificants are really that bad.
Sprewell - Devean George = 80% Spre.
If they go Kobe - Spre = 50% Kobe.
and
Wally - Devean = 50% George?

So whose additions and subtractions are better?
I'd say Lakers. That's just me.
Even if the additions canceled each other out, there is still no answer to Shaq or Kobe.
Let's go WOLF HUNTING!

[Bang]

People underestimate Karl Malone's abilities. Don't you think he did a good job with Duncan? I think so. In fact that could've been even MORE important than any offense that Shaq and KG offered.

[bboyk10]

if u want some real rivalries, bring hakeem olajuwon or patrick ewing at their prime.. just don't talk about it if u don't have a DOMINANT POST PLAYER it's just simple as that

what i have meant by a POST PLAYER is the player who can work in the interior, in the paint....KG 's main scoring route is the mid range jumpers he doesn't have enought strength to go inside and challenge that big body and strength of shaq's

1990 John Salley Bill Laimbeer James Edwards
1989 Rick Mahorn John Salley James Edwards Bill Laimbeer

with all due respect to the bad boys, none of the guys you have mentioned were dominant post players

the same can be said about robert parish

bboyk10- this is not the ESPN forum. or at least I hope it's not like it

i really have some doubts bout u did u watch the real bad boyz game in the 80's or are u just saying these things simply by looking at some fancy statistics sheet?
EVERYBODY knows THE CHIEF WAS ONE OF THE BEST POST DEFENDERS OF ALL TIME. IF U DON'T say he's not a dominant post player, the same would go for BILL RUSSELL though he's the guy who've won the most trophies. and for the rest of the bad boyz...JOHN SALLEY, JAMES EDWARDS, RICK MAHORN, BILL LAIMBEER they were one of the MOST PHYSICAL, BAD ASS, WORKING HARD, POST DEFENDERS. U would know that IF U WATCHED ANY GAME IN THAT 1988 and 1989 PLAYOFFS

and also bout that ESPN thing.. if this is not an ESPN or TNT or FSN or whatever sportschannel u can name of, i don't know what this forum is for. AS FAR AS I KNOW, this forum is mainly for discussing current NBA STUFF. So if u don't want stuff like that, either just COMPLETELY IGNORE MY POSTS or just THINK AT LEAST ONCE BEFORE U POST

[bboyk10]

People underestimate Karl Malone's abilities. Don't you think he did a good job with Duncan? I think so. In fact that could've been even MORE important than any offense that Shaq and KG offered.

i second that. Mailman's defense really set the tone for that entire series.
I Think i never saw duncan scoring more than 30 points like last year

[HonorGlow]

one thing certain: minnie doesn't have a defender at
1990 John Salley Bill Laimbeer James Edwards
1989 Rick Mahorn John Salley James Edwards Bill Laimbeer

Okay I did watch every single one of those games back in the day on CBS...(before it got switched over to NBC in 91) and Brent Musburger, Tommy Hensein and crew were commenting how they were getting it done WITHOUT a dominant big man. The fact that three Bad Boys had to combined to compare with all the other years kind of expresses that. Yes they were bad boys working their butts off but they had to to match up with Duckworth(woah!) in 90 and Kareem in 89. But Dominant they weren't individually. Laimbeer was a highpost and three point dude in addition to that…before the KG(one man can do all) phenomena came out.

Dominant or not...I really don't care. When I'm there in target center on Sunday, I'll just be happy if the Lakers are up by one when time expires at the end of the game...WHY? Because I just love the Lakers with or without Shaq, with or without Kobe!

I even loved them when they had Worthy coming off the bench, and Magic coached them to 0-10 to end their season? Ewwwww remember that moment is not so great Laker history?

[cunnilinguist]

i really have some doubts bout u did u watch the real bad boyz game in the 80's or are u just saying these things simply by looking at some fancy statistics sheet?
EVERYBODY knows THE CHIEF WAS ONE OF THE BEST POST DEFENDERS OF ALL TIME. IF U DON'T say he's not a dominant post player, the same would go for BILL RUSSELL though he's the guy who've won the most trophies. and for the rest of the bad boyz...JOHN SALLEY, JAMES EDWARDS, RICK MAHORN, BILL LAIMBEER they were one of the MOST PHYSICAL, BAD ASS, WORKING HARD, POST DEFENDERS. U would know that IF U WATCHED ANY GAME IN THAT 1988 and 1989 PLAYOFFS

and also bout that ESPN thing.. if this is not an ESPN or TNT or FSN or whatever sportschannel u can name of, i don't know what this forum is for. AS FAR AS I KNOW, this forum is mainly for discussing current NBA STUFF. So if u don't want stuff like that, either just COMPLETELY IGNORE MY POSTS or just THINK AT LEAST ONCE BEFORE U POST

I suggest that you take your own advice and think twice before you post something. these claims of robert parish being equivelant to bill russell or laimbeer & company being dominant post players are moronic.

first off, parish was a good defender but he didn't even make one single all defensive team, neither 1st nor 2nd, in his illustrious career. heck, he wasn't even the best defender on his team. he was third maybe even fourth, behind bird, mchale, and dennis johnson. I don't even want to get into the bill russell thing because it is completely idiotic

secondly, how could you talk about piston defense and not include DENNIS RODMAN, arguably one of the best defensive players of all time. mahorn, laimbeer, salley, edwards were nowhere near dominant defenders. it was their collective efforts combined with Rodman's excellence that made the piston post defense per say dominant.

If you're gonna act like someone's sticking their thumb up your ass everytime someone disagrees with you, then I think I will take your advice and just ignore your posts. Your insults are generic and your logic is flawed, quite similar to Laker fans in the ESPN forum.

[Fresh8]

Karl Malone's game has been overlooked by nearly everyone. He can still play and because of him- the Lakers were able to turn the Spurs series around.

I guess that he will be the key for a series win cause if he plays the defence he played on Tim Duncan on KG- that will be our advantage. Even thogh Malone is 13 years older that Garnett...he still has the experience and most probably alot of tricks up his sleeve!

[Jackal]

Everyone has mentioned Kobe, Malone etc etc...no love for the big man?

Unless you haven't noticed as yet, I'm the Shaq fan on this forum so here's something about the Diesel:

Stopping Shaq, the key to success? If so, how?

For a weekend, like something out of a fantasy league or PlayStation 2, Timberwolves coach Flip Saunders had Shaquille O'Neal on his roster. Loved the lovable lug, too.

"What I really enjoyed about him, he's fun to be around," said Saunders, who coached the Western Conference squad in the NBA All-Star Game in February. "He's got a great personality. He deals with kids as well as anybody I've ever seen. Showed great respect to our coaches and the other players who were playing. And competitive. He really wanted to win."

Kevin Garnett has teamed with O'Neal three times on West All-Star squads (O'Neal has missed three more with injuries). It was heavy on sibling, light on rivalry.

"I've been knowing Shaq for a while. Shaq's always been like a big brother to me," Garnett said after practice Thursday. "He's one of those veterans that has always looked out . . . if you ask other young guys, he's a great person."

Then the Los Angeles Lakers' massive center puts on his opponents' colors again and, suddenly, he is a bear shedding hounds, Frankenstein's monster swatting off villagers or a Kansas twister air-dropping dairy cows.

That's the O'Neal the Wolves will see in the Western Conference finals that begin tonight at Target Center. That's the O'Neal the Wolves will try to defend, attack, deceive, frustrate, exhaust and survive, if they hope to keep playing in June.

Wolves forward Mark Madsen spent three seasons in L.A. playing asphalt to O'Neal's 7-foot-1, 340-pound diesel, the player stuck guarding the big man in practice. "All I can tell you is, Shaq was always on the first team. I was always on the second," Madsen said. "Was it a fun task? No, it was not. Shaq is one of those dominant players who comes around not every year, not every five years, not every decade. He comes around one in league history."

Teams search for answers or, at least, gimmicks, because no one opposing center can match up with O'Neal. No coach other than Houston's Jeff Van Gundy, by about 2007, has a player who can take on the Lakers' big man one-on-one, mano-a-mano, front-end loader to tractor-trailer.

Oliver Miller, the little-used Wolves center who figures to see action in this series, faced O'Neal when the two were in college. That was probably 60 pounds ago for the Lakers star.

"That's when he was more aggressive and more agile and able to do a lot more," Miller said. "Now, he went from a 24-Hour Fitness building to a Target Center building. . . . A lot of guys in the league are strong. But you've got Shaq, who is Shaq."

In the past, up to and including last spring, the Wolves generally tried to ape San Antonio's Twin Tower approach against O'Neal, hoping that Kevin Garnett and Dean Garrett or Rasho Nesterovic could get results similar to Tim Duncan and David Robinson. But when Nesterovic switched into Robinson's place this season, well, we just saw what happened: The Lakers dropped two games to the Spurs in the conference semifinals, then roared back to win four in a row. O'Neal averaged 22.5 points, 14.5 rebounds (4.3 offensive), 4.3 blocked shots and shot 63.5 percent. ((Can you say a good series?))

Even coach Phil Jackson -- who chose the Lakers in 1999 largely due to O'Neal's presence and hasn't coached against him in six years -- knows how much havoc can cause, without even controlling the ball. "That's one of the concepts that always makes sense, that your defense is centered and positioned by what you have in the middle, regardless if it's baseball or football or basketball," Jackson said last month. "If you've got the strength in the middle of the field, the middle of the court, you can really do something."

Brick walls and thundering locomotives can be awfully helpful, too.

O'Neal, now 32, had ailments that cost him 15 games this season, for the third year in a row. In April, some observers were downgrading him as something less than the unstoppable force and immovable object he had been.

But the Wolves still recall the behemoth who averaged 28.7 points and 15.3 rebounds against them in the 2003 first round, and will flip frantically through their defensive strategies to contain him. Especially with Madsen dropping this gem Thursday: "The biggest thing with Shaq in [these] playoffs is, he's healthy. Last year, his knee was not 100 percent."

Here, then, are five options for the Wolves in thwarting O'Neal or, at least, minimizing the carnage:

1. Don't let him dunk

The key here is to let him shoot over the defense, with his hooks and flips and other stylings, as long as he's shooting up or across rather than down. That means beating him to spots and holding position, which sounds easier than it is because of O'Neal's bulk and footwork that has gotten so good at sealing off the man guarding him.

2. Deny him the ball

That means a lot of fronting, sometimes using defenders on both sides of him. But playing behind O'Neal in the post is an invitation to ICU.

Then again, New Jersey coach Lawrence Frank -- back when he was the newly named Nets genius -- had his players sage into the middle in a game after the All-Star break. The Lakers' perimeter shooters picked them apart and New Jersey got smoked on its home court. O'Neal only had nine points at halftime but L.A. already led 49-35.

3. Keep him guessing

This means different defenders, different intensity, different angles. Not unlike what the Wolves did defensively against Sacramento's point guard in the just-completed series.

"It's what we talked about on [Mike] Bibby: We've got to give him different looks," assistant coach Randy Wittman said. "If O'Neal knows you're coming one way to trap him, he's too good. You have to mix up your coverage so you keep him off balance."

The Wolves have at least five players lined up to defend O'Neal: Ervin Johnson, Michael Olowokandi, Madsen, Miller and Gary Trent. Everyone else will help in traps.

"I feel like, with my long arms and Kandi and Ervin [and Madsen], we've got four different guys," Miller said. "You never know. If we contest a shot, at the same time, we've got to block him out and make sure he doesn't get the offensive rebound."

This, mind you, does not necessarily suggest a Hack-a-Shaq approach. Too often, when referees see a stream of defenders checking into and out of the game against O'Neal, they assume those guys are there to foul, so quick whistles follow. The Wolves want to make the big man play against different opponents, not get sent to the line by them.

(Keep in mind, O'Neal has made only 40 of 106 free throws so far in the playoffs.)

4. Make him work on defense

With Nesterovic, the Wolves tried to draw O'Neal outside with the Slovenian's shooting range. That's why Houston's Yao Ming has had some success against him, too. And before the Lakers solved San Antonio, the Spurs relied on Manu Ginobili or Tony Parker to penetrate and draw the big man into foul trouble.

The Wolves don't have much offensive punch at center, but they still need to make O'Neal work. "You've got to make him come out and guard people," Saunders said. "You've got to make him defend pick-and-rolls. You can't let him stay in the paint and play, pretty much, a one-man zone."

That means Ervin Johnson setting screens out front for Sam Cassell or Latrell Sprewell. It means Madsen using any trick he learned in three years of nasty duty. And it means Olowokandi entering the playoff fray, after a worthless Sacramento series.

"This is a great opportunity for him," Saunders said. "Last series was a bad matchup series. This can be a series where it's a big building block, not only for us in the playoffs but for him as far as next year."

Said Olowokandi, who averaged 10.5 minutes and sat out the final three games against the Kings: "The most important thing with him is, it's important we go at him aggressive on the offensive end."

And that means the Wolves and their fans might have to tolerate some of Olowokandi's questionable shots. "We've got to understand it and be patient with some things that happen during the game," Wittman said. "The last series is over. We all understand that."

That said, it must be noted that O'Neal has been a livelier, more committed defender of late. Instead of lazily staying back on pick-and-rolls, he is more active. Plus, he has Karl Malone helping him out away from the basket.

"If you run high pick and rolls," Wittman said, "Malone is going to stay out on top and switch with whoever comes up there, even if it's Kandi coming up there."

5. Everything AND the kitchen sink

The proper question ought to be, what won't the Wolves try against O'Neal? Look for double teams, sometimes triple teams. Some coming late, some early. Their zone defenses, shelved against the Kings, could get dusted off.

Then they will enlist the referees' help, and do their best to demonstrate that the big man swinging his elbows nose-high on a move to the hoop sometimes can be classified as an offensive foul.

"You know that big hamhock is coming around," Miller said.

Said Wittman: "That's something where we've told our guys, if he comes across like that and hits you in the face, you've got to fall down and show the refs the foul."

Facial reconstructive surgery might be required in the offseason, but right now, that's in the whatever-it-takes drawer, too.

1) Dont let him dunk:

Don't let him dunk, very easily said, how do you stop him from getting position to dunk it? Good luck figuring out that one folks.

2) Deny him the ball:

Fronting him? No, we saw the effects of that in SA. Payton & Bryant are too good of passers, these will just mean more dunks for O'Neal.

3) Keep him guessing:

This method could work, he won't have a chance to get used to all the defensive schemes. He isn't all that bright I thinks.

4) Make him work on defense:

He worked against the Spurs, what went wrong there?

5) Everything AND the kitchen sink:

Hell yeah, see you tonight.

Welcome to the Conference Finals gents, let the games begin.

Questions for both teams.

[.]

The problem is that Tim Duncan doesnt have to be athletic to make a play, he plays smart with good footwork which is something that a veteran like Karl Malone can stop/hold down, on the other side, Garnett is more of a player who uses his height, long arms and his athletic body to make the play. For Malone it will be alot harder to defend because he isnt that athletic anymore, and doesnt jump high enough to atleast bother Garnett when he is shooting.

Also Garnett has longer arms then Duncan has, so I think we will see less slapping on the ball from Malone because it will be harder to reach.

I think the key of this series will be Shaq, Minnesota doesnt have the players who are physical able to stop Shaq and judging from earlier meetings not smart enough to hold him down, Rasho did a nice job of it by simply staying in the front of him, hoping the Lakers will give a bad lob pass which creates turnovers, I still havent seen Minnesota do that, but maybe they have learned from the Lakers-Spurs series

[bboyk10]

i really have some doubts bout u did u watch the real bad boyz game in the 80's or are u just saying these things simply by looking at some fancy statistics sheet?
EVERYBODY knows THE CHIEF WAS ONE OF THE BEST POST DEFENDERS OF ALL TIME. IF U DON'T say he's not a dominant post player, the same would go for BILL RUSSELL though he's the guy who've won the most trophies. and for the rest of the bad boyz...JOHN SALLEY, JAMES EDWARDS, RICK MAHORN, BILL LAIMBEER they were one of the MOST PHYSICAL, BAD ASS, WORKING HARD, POST DEFENDERS. U would know that IF U WATCHED ANY GAME IN THAT 1988 and 1989 PLAYOFFS

and also bout that ESPN thing.. if this is not an ESPN or TNT or FSN or whatever sportschannel u can name of, i don't know what this forum is for. AS FAR AS I KNOW, this forum is mainly for discussing current NBA STUFF. So if u don't want stuff like that, either just COMPLETELY IGNORE MY POSTS or just THINK AT LEAST ONCE BEFORE U POST

I suggest that you take your own advice and think twice before you post something. these claims of robert parish being equivelant to bill russell or laimbeer & company being dominant post players are moronic.

first off, parish was a good defender but he didn't even make one single all defensive team, neither 1st nor 2nd, in his illustrious career. heck, he wasn't even the best defender on his team. he was third maybe even fourth, behind bird, mchale, and dennis johnson. I don't even want to get into the bill russell thing because it is completely idiotic

secondly, how could you talk about piston defense and not include DENNIS RODMAN, arguably one of the best defensive players of all time. mahorn, laimbeer, salley, edwards were nowhere near dominant defenders. it was their collective efforts combined with Rodman's excellence that made the piston post defense per say dominant.

If you're gonna act like someone's sticking their thumb up your ass everytime someone disagrees with you, then I think I will take your advice and just ignore your posts. Your insults are generic and your logic is flawed, quite similar to Laker fans in the ESPN forum.

wow wow maybe u just don't have enough brain cells to understand the point of my posts man. And YOU'RE SIMPLY GETTING ANGRY TRYING TO DISS ME OR SOMETHIN' . BE LOGICAL MATE. YOU'RE the one who's angry, not me.
1. Dennis Rodman focused on defense on shooting guards and small forwards those days. Plus his rebounding average wasn't that high. He got those 2 defensive player of the year twice for defense on clyde drexler, scottie pippen and other flashy swingmans, not for going into the paint area and bumping with big fellas, that was those bill's, rick's and john's job. He started leading the league in rebounding since the 92 season, not from their championship era, though i admit he's the greatest rebounder of all time.
2. ROBERT PARISH DIDN'T MAKE THE ALL DEFENSIVE TEAM. HELL YEA he didn't. BUT YOU can't simply compare the 80's with the today cause there were toomany great centers than these sucky centers we have now. ALL we have now is SHAQ. In the 80's we had MOSES MALONE, ROBERT PARISH, HAKEEM OLAJUWON, PATRICK EWING, RALPH SAMPSON, KAREEM, etc, etc, etc.
3. What i said was parish was the great post defender, i wasn't saying he was an all around defender like bird, or a defender type like kevin mchale. Plus, If he wasn't a good post defender, how could he even be inserted into ONE OF THE 50 GREATEST PLAYERS OF ALL TIME, CONSIDERING THERE WERE GREAT CENTERS IN THAT PERIOD OF TIME?
4. I didn't say Bill Russell and Robert Parish were in the same level of play. HELL NO, I DIDN't AND I WILL NEVER EVER SAY THAT BULLSHIT. My point was, if u watched any game in the 80's playoffs, robert parish was able to slow down kareem and moses malone manytimes, which led larry bird and kevin mchale to do their offensive game and not worry bout the inside.
5. DEFENSE AND REBOUNDING ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Dennis Rodman can't defend at the 5. COME ON, he's only 6-8 220 player. I KNOW HE'S A GREAT DEFENDER FROM 4 THRU 2, but at 5? HELL NO, HE CAN ONLY DEFEND if that center is kindda small and mid range jumping center like alonzo mourning, or if that center is purely technical, like hakeem olajuwon. but can he stop PHYSICAL BAD ASSES?
NO, he wouldn't be able to defend them. DEFENDING THOSE PHYSICAL CENTERS WERE ALWAYS RICK MAHORN AND BILL LAIMBEER's JOBS

and one more thing, i'm just stating my opinions according to my experience in real basketball and the games that i've seen. NOT ON SOME THINGS LIKE WHO MADE THE ALL DEFENSIVE TEAM AND WHO AVERAGED MORE REBOUNDS, ETC. ETC. PLUS, IT WAS A GREAT DECISION TO IGNORE MY POSTS. CAUSE U DON"T HAVE ENOUGH BRAINS TO FOLLOW MY OPINIONS AND JUST POSTING TO GET EVEN WITH SOMEONE.

[bboyk10]

nothing surprising...lakers won..period...kekeke

shaq with another dominant performance and KG choking at big games and outplayed by karl malone..well

JUST AS EXPECTED

OVER TO GAME 2

[Jackal]

Great game 1, a win for LA.

What can I say, me and Seb just followed the game online till 5.43 a.m. Via K-Jewel radio, can you say fan? Ok.

What a win, I posted about Shaq dominating, I would call 27 points, 18 rebounds and 5 assists domination. 9 of 16 shooting, plus 9 of 11 from the freethrow line. Oh, 4 blocked shots.

Who was whining about Malone not being able to defend KG? He did a more than good job on him. Plus 17 and 10, on the league MVP..btw.

George on a sweet slam assisted by who else, Malone.

Bryant got on fire when he was needed to be on fire. Good game, but as someone said, he's taking it easy letting Shaq dominate. Kobe + Shaq = Success.

Payton, tried to do whatever he could.

Fisher + Rush, three's galore. Beautiful win by LA, gave me a scare at the end, but good game guys. Great game.

Welcome to the playoffs, now I'z gonna slee's.

[.]

Well, Lakers have 1 the first game at the Target Center in Minnesota and are leading the series 1 to 0.

I didnt watch the game but I did listen in on the radio, and I must say Shaq is really hungry to win his 4th NBA title, he was grabbing the rebounds when they needed them and making his freethrows ( I guess this 1 step behind the line thing really works), Kobe and Fisher both giving the Lakers some points, specially probs to Fisher for his back to back 3´s when the game was getting close, for me he was the X-Factor of the game.

[Micchy_boy]

shaq dominate who ever guarded him but with few bright spot from kandi.
malone won or maybe even what the mvp done. great one on one defense in few times but definitely team defense stopped KG.
As usual spree had a great game. (lakers dont learned in their losses in regular season)
kobe though dont have a dominating ballgame but did a good job in setting up teammates (wolves beware in game 2)
payton win his battle against cassell coz as i say payton has the advantage coz of cassell injury.
and the lakers got a great lift from bench esp. those 3 3's of fisher(2) and rush(1).

this maybe a much closer game if not fatigue (KG) and injury (Cassell).

1 down 3 to go.

i "THINK" wolves will win game 2 (but i "HOPE" lakers win)

[Boyk]

Well, Lakers have 1 the first game at the Target Center in Minnesota and are leading the series 1 to 0.

I didnt watch the game but I did listen in on the radio, and I must say Shaq is really hungry to win his 4th NBA title, he was grabbing the rebounds when they needed them and making his freethrows ( I guess this 1 step behind the line thing really works), Kobe and Fisher both giving the Lakers some points, specially probs to Fisher for his back to back 3´s when the game was getting close, for me he was the X-Factor of the game.

Hes been the x-facter most of the playoffs.
To be honest, hes done a much better job than payton all playoffs, defensively and offensively.
Hes probably taking a few acting lessons, or spending some quality time with vlade divacs
but hey, his defense isnt just flopping, he does do a very good job getin in players way and drawing fouls.

Shaq was his great dominant self, Kobe sorta just cruised most the night, and cuaght a bit of fire at one stage in the 3rd??? and hit about 4 in a row plus a couple of free throws.

Malone was exceptional on KG, he outplayed him, plain and simple.
I dont mean he just slowed KG down, but actually outplayed him in perofrmance and and statistically.

As for the Wolves, well to be honest, i see this series over in 4 games, 5 if the wolves are lucky.
Lakers just outplayed them all over the court really in the game.

[Amphatoast]

LA is going to win it easily since the wolves won't be getting any rest since each game is every other day plus Sam Cassell is injuried now

[cunnilinguist]

wow wow maybe u just don't have enough brain cells to understand the point of my posts man. And YOU'RE SIMPLY GETTING ANGRY TRYING TO DISS ME OR SOMETHIN' . BE LOGICAL MATE. YOU'RE the one who's angry, not me.
1. Dennis Rodman focused on defense on shooting guards and small forwards those days. Plus his rebounding average wasn't that high. He got those 2 defensive player of the year twice for defense on clyde drexler, scottie pippen and other flashy swingmans, not for going into the paint area and bumping with big fellas, that was those bill's, rick's and john's job. He started leading the league in rebounding since the 92 season, not from their championship era, though i admit he's the greatest rebounder of all time.
2. ROBERT PARISH DIDN'T MAKE THE ALL DEFENSIVE TEAM. HELL YEA he didn't. BUT YOU can't simply compare the 80's with the today cause there were toomany great centers than these sucky centers we have now. ALL we have now is SHAQ. In the 80's we had MOSES MALONE, ROBERT PARISH, HAKEEM OLAJUWON, PATRICK EWING, RALPH SAMPSON, KAREEM, etc, etc, etc.
3. What i said was parish was the great post defender, i wasn't saying he was an all around defender like bird, or a defender type like kevin mchale. Plus, If he wasn't a good post defender, how could he even be inserted into ONE OF THE 50 GREATEST PLAYERS OF ALL TIME, CONSIDERING THERE WERE GREAT CENTERS IN THAT PERIOD OF TIME?
4. I didn't say Bill Russell and Robert Parish were in the same level of play. HELL NO, I DIDN't AND I WILL NEVER EVER SAY THAT BULLSHIT. My point was, if u watched any game in the 80's playoffs, robert parish was able to slow down kareem and moses malone manytimes, which led larry bird and kevin mchale to do their offensive game and not worry bout the inside.
5. DEFENSE AND REBOUNDING ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. Dennis Rodman can't defend at the 5. COME ON, he's only 6-8 220 player. I KNOW HE'S A GREAT DEFENDER FROM 4 THRU 2, but at 5? HELL NO, HE CAN ONLY DEFEND if that center is kindda small and mid range jumping center like alonzo mourning, or if that center is purely technical, like hakeem olajuwon. but can he stop PHYSICAL BAD ASSES?
NO, he wouldn't be able to defend them. DEFENDING THOSE PHYSICAL CENTERS WERE ALWAYS RICK MAHORN AND BILL LAIMBEER's JOBS

get it straight: i'm not the one starting off this discussion with petty insults or WRITING IN CAPS EVERY OTHER SENTENCE

i don't see any player that's mentioned as one of the most dominant defensive players of all time that hasn't earned a good amount of defensive accolades. whether it be leading the league in blocks, all defensive teams, etc... not counting players like russell since certain statistics weren't taken officially in their respective era's. if you want to keep on pushing for parish as some dominant defensive presence or mchale being some 'defensive type player', go right ahead. your arguments are getting progressively worse and i don't want to bother

Plus, If he wasn't a good post defender, how could he even be inserted into ONE OF THE 50 GREATEST PLAYERS OF ALL TIME, CONSIDERING THERE WERE GREAT CENTERS IN THAT PERIOD OF TIME?

so bowen should be inducted into the greatest players of this generation list?

4. I didn't say Bill Russell and Robert Parish were in the same level of play. HELL NO, I DIDN't AND I WILL NEVER EVER SAY THAT BULLSHIT

.

EVERYBODY knows THE CHIEF WAS ONE OF THE BEST POST DEFENDERS OF ALL TIME. IF U DON'T say he's not a dominant post player, the same would go for BILL RUSSELL

not even a slap happy site like nba.com strokes parish as one of the most dominant defensive post players of all time, let alone during his era.

My point was, if u watched any game in the 80's playoffs, robert parish was able to slow down kareem and moses malone manytimes

not dominant, but slow down. will perdue could slow down patrick ewing too.

WAHHH! SOME KID IN A FORUM TOLD ME I NEED BRAIN CELLS OR SOMETHING. WAHHH! YOU WOULDN'T WANT ME TO SEND MY PERSONAL BODY GUARD, ROBERT PARISH, AFTER YOU