the Great Debate: Kobe or T-Mac?

[:digerati:]

Building on Dan's idea to compare statistically.

Per 48 Minutes:

1997-98
---------
M: 18.3ppg 11.0rpg 3.9apg 2.5bpg 2.0spg
B: 28.4ppg 5.7rpg 4.6apg .9bpg 1.7spg

1999
------
M: 19.8ppg 12.1rpg 4.9apg 2.9bpg 2.3spg
B: 25.2ppg 6.7rpg 4.8apg 1.3bpg 1.8spg

1999-2000
------------
M: 23.7ppg 9.7rpg 5.1apg 2.9bpg 1.8spg
B: 28.3ppg 7.9rpg 6.2apg 1.2bpg 2.0spg

2000-01
---------
M: 32.1ppg 9.0rpg 5.5apg 1.8bpg 1.8spg
B: 33.4ppg 6.9rpg 5.9apg .7bpg 2.0spg

2001-02
---------
M: 32.1ppg 9.9rpg 6.6apg 1.2bpg 2.0spg
B: 31.6ppg 6.9apg 6.9apg .6bpg 1.9spg

2002-03 (through Nov. 29th)
---------------------------------
M: 38.8ppg 7.8rpg 5.4apg 1.5bpg 1.4spg
B: 33.1ppg 10.0rpg 7.1apg .9bpg 2.7spg

Career
--------
M: 25.2ppg 8.9rpg 4.9apg 1.9bpg 1.7spg
B: 29.6ppg 6.9rpg 5.7apg .9bpg 1.9spg
D: 18.9ppg 3.1rpg 7.8apg .1bpg 1.8spg

For reference,
Kobe: 6-6, 220lbs
McGrady: 6-9, 210lbs

[Bill Russell]

I'd say McGrady... he's a personal favorite of mine.

[Nick]

Bah.. Kobe only averages 9 rebounds a game this season because Shaq was out. Typical Laker fan argument...

Well....That's a typical Laker-hater argument.....
What if you looked at it this way...
Kobe has the rebounding skills...but shaq steals his sunshine....in a way....kobe can't take as many rebounds with Shaq in... IT'S SHAQ! now that shaq is out...(well not anymore) Kobe has proven his rebounding skills...think about it...

[Rens]

If McGrady was the only guy in his team that was able to rebound the ball I'm sure he would get a lot more also... but they have Hill, Miller, even Kemp and some others that can rebound.
The Lakers with Shaq out have as rebounders umm.. Samaki Walker who's an ok rebounder. 8.3 rebounds a game this season (Hill has 6.3 in 2 minutes less time)
Robert Horry? A PF who averages 5.3 rebounds a game over his career? (9.18 @ 48 minutes). Rick Fox is surprising me with 7.5 rebounds a game but his career average is just 3.8. All these Laker rebounding numbers are a bit inflated though.. because the Lakers are only shooting 41%.

[Boyk]

To the guy who said kobe is only pullin down 9 coz shaq is out, well thats the silliest remark ive ever heard
lol
coz hes still pullin down the same amount of rebounds.......lol
and i reckon t-mac should be rebounding more, i mean the guy is 6'8 and he does have great hops and he does weigh in at 210lbs(whoeva said 200 betta get there facts straight).

by the way, are you people on drugs???
whats with the poll, there is no way t-mac is better than kobe
come on now, think!

[Rens]

Shaq-less games: 8.6
Shaq games: 8.17
So that's less. Also, Shaq didn't play his normal ammount of minutes in his first 2 games (both under 30 minutes)

[f.t.w.]

comparing stats isn't the end all and be all. As already stated, different teammates create different needs. These two players are clearly at very high skill levels. I vote T-Mac because I'm a FL boy and because from interviews I've seen and read of these two players, Kobe seems slightly more egomaniacal and T-Mac seems to be keepin it mo' real(he seems more sincere.)
As far as the 02-03 MVP...wtf is going on these days?!? Does MVP stand for Most Valuable Player-other-than-shaq? I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE the Lakers, but Shaq is the mofo KING of the contemporary NBA. T-Mac and Kobe are among the players in the next tier down from King Shaq. I mean, seriously, is there ANY doubt that Shaq has become the most dominant player in the league?

[Boyk]

kobe is more egomanial(or woteva u said)?????

ummmmm hello, does the first round of the 2001\2002 playoffs, Magic vs Hornets ring a bell???

"Im the best player on the court" - Tracy Mcgrady

and what happens, he gets showed up by baron davis, who post back-to-back trip-doubs on his ass
now, if that aint a giant ego.............then wtf is!?!?!

[MAKAVELI THE DON]

kobe's will & determination separates him from everyone else in the nba and his defensive ability also.

kobe's is handsdown the skillest ball player in the nba and if in a tight situation where you need to get stops & you tell kobe to go and shut down a guy, he goes and do it.

t-mac isn't as good as kobe when it comes to D

[BIG GREEN]

looks like t-mac is winning this little race

[MAKAVELI THE DON]

he's only winning the vote because alot of people hate & might i say, "are jealous" of the lakers and kobe's skills and success.

[:digerati:]

Has nothing to do with the fact that some people might actually think McGrady is a better player, it's just that they are haters that are jealous of the Lackers. Yeah, that's it.

[ningtong88]

Kobe still could get 2 triple-doubles after Shaq came back.
T-mac can score 30 something points when Hill is on the court.
They are both great player. Kobe is not egomania at all, he might be 3 years ago, but not anymore. T-mac is not either, coz the Magic needs him to score, if he score less than 20pts, the team would loss. Do you say AI egomania???? He takes more than 30 shots each game, but the team needs him to take that much.

[Boyk]

hey ningtong

u said kobe could still get 2 trip-doubs when shaq gets back

he already has 2 since shaq has come back...........geez hes awesome
and he finally gets some rest on shooting the ball, since shaq is back

anyway i think the real reason why the lakers arent doing so well, is becoz of the bench
i mean WTF did the gm do(i think jim or jerry krause or sumfin)
i mean if ur a championship side, y change???
oh well, it seems that lakers might finally start get going!

[Rens]

hey ningtong

u said kobe could still get 2 trip-doubs when shaq gets back

he already has 2 since shaq has come back...........

duh that's what he said...

[f.t.w.]

laddass:'kobe is more egomanial(or woteva u said)?????'

dude, I said MORE egomaniacal. No shit t-mac is vain(uh oh, 'nother big word!) I bet even Mark Madsen has a big head. There are probably very few pro atheletes that don't have bloated egos. My point is that for ME (you following me so far?) T-Mac interviews turn my stomach slightly less than interviews of that pretentious, jordan-mannerism-thieving, not-as-good-of-a-defender-as-t-mac Kobe F'ing Bryant.
And one more thing: Remember when people thought Pippen was one of the 50 greatest players ever? Take Jordan away and I'll show you Ruben Patterson's backup, take away Shaq and Kobe will be picking up towels for T-Mac.

[ningtong88]

Take Jordan away and I'll show you Ruben Patterson's backup, take away Shaq and Kobe will be picking up towels for T-Mac.

Shaq wasn't on the court for like 15 games, you saw how well Kobe played, 4 triple-doubles, only God knows how many more he's gonna get through this season. The rest of the Lakers lick balls, they need to wake up, and play hardballs, even Phil Jackson. Like what I said before, I like both T-mac and K8, T-mac is good at scoring, K8 is good at D. This year's MVP is gonna be either one of them.[/quote]

[MC Hao]

T-Mac gets my vote because he can lead a team (led the Magic to playoffs the 1st year he arrived Orlando) while Kobe cannot (led the Shaq-less Lakers to a 3-9 start this season).

[Boyk]

it aint kobes fault the lakers went 3-9 without shaq
i mean come on, shaqs back and they still suck, its the rest of the team!
get it right
and the person who was being a smart ass just because i couldnt remember the precise word he used, i think you need to read up on basketball, and get some knowledge on the sport

I mean saying t-mac has better D than kobe, really shows you are an idiot lol

[f.t.w.]

career
bryant: DRPG 3.5 SPG 1.33 BPG 0.62
mcgrady: DRPG 4.3 SPG 1.24 BPG 1.35

let me know when my knowledge of the game is up to speed there bandwagon-boy. Kobe's a Shooting Gaurd, T-Mac is a Shooting God. Master of defense AND offense. Recognize!

[:digerati:]

Career
--------
M: 25.2ppg 8.9rpg 4.9apg 1.9bpg 1.7spg
B: 29.6ppg 6.9rpg 5.7apg .9bpg 1.9spg

M = McGrady
B = Bryant

[ningtong88]

I didn't vote on here, because I don't know who to vote.
For those people who like McGrady, but hate Kobe, here's a fact:
Laker wouldn't easily win a game without Kobe, Magic may not lose a game without Tracy.
For those people who hate T-mac just because he said he was the best player:
If you are someone's fan, you would think that he/she is the best anyway, so it doesn't matter.[/b]

[GloveGuy]

kobe's will & determination separates him from everyone else in the nba and his defensive ability also

Hell no...there are guys out there who want it just as much as Kobe does. He's not the best defender in the L. He might be a top ten for guards. IMO, his D is overrated. Many players have gotten to him. He can't shut ANYONE down. The only guy who a coach can tell to go shutdown a player and he'll do it is GP. But Kobe doesn't separate himself from everyone else. He doesn't stand out the most in any category.

Whoever picked up the new SLAM with Kobe on the cover, read it and see how much of a jackass he is.

[Eugene]

You spot up for the open jumper -- in and out.

You take to the sky, pick the ball out of the air for an alley oop, only to fumble it coming down...

Pick up two fouls early in the first...

Hit a tough jumper...

Pick up an offensive foul... third personal foul

Throw the ball away... for your sixth turnover...

miss layups you've making all your life... ultimately shooting 1 of 7

In the meantime, the opposition lights up for 10 of 14 threes at the half, and up to the third quarter, their shooting 67% from the land of plenty...

None of your teammates are hitting shots...

It seems like the Fates don't want you to win the game...

So what do you do? What do you do when Fate challenges you?

Well, if you're Kobe Bryant, you wake up and realize that no one can stop you, not even fate...

And go on to drop twenty-three (magic number, anyone?) on the helpless Mavs in the fourth quarter...

I promised myself that I'd not participate in this Kobe vs. T-Mac discussion -- both of them are brilliant players and deserve equal respect...

But consider this: Kobe went toe to toe with the forces of the universe and bent it to his will. He put the team on his back (Shaquille O'neal and all) and carried them to the greatest comeback in League history. Could T-Mac do this? Could T-Mac, for all the talk of him carrying his team, force change in natural course of things?

Kobe distinguishes himself from all his "peers" in that he is able, in a Jordanesque manner, to impose his will on the game and force it to change, regardless of fate or 17-1 win streak or 67% shooting from the three point line.

All things being equal, and you'll probably agree that it's not, if Kobe and T-Mac were equal in all things, then Kobe still gets the nod until T-Mac proves that he can do what Kobe did tonight.

Until then, Kobe Bryant is the best shooting guard in the game today.

All the best,

Eugene

[air gordon]

outside of the needless insulting, this makes for a great debate. i voted for mcgrady over bryant (not because i am a bryant 'hater').

in yahoo! fantasy sports, mcgrady is ranked #6 overall, (based on current and prior seasons stats), ahead of bryant, who is ranked #14. this isn't really significant, but i figured i would point this out anyway. in fantasy basketball, i definitely would pick mcgrady over bryant