Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:22 pm
Rasho was the 2nd highest rpg with 7.7 and that's padded cus duncan missed lots of games.
Everyone knows KG works harder than any star, well...I think you do. On the 4th of July KG was at Target Center practicing when most players are on vacation. KG was working out with McHale and Olowokandi earlier this summer when mostly every player was resting. KG was recruiting Hudson and Hassell to stay. If it wasn't for KG, I think Hudson would have left.
Sam Cassell said KG works harder in practice than some guys do in a game. He goes 120% in practice, nothing compared to what he does in an actual game. He has improved so much. When he was drafted in 1995 he had no shot, very raw and really only an atheltic freak. He worked on his game over and over and after he got his fat contract he worked on his game harder than ever to justify the big contract.
I'm not saying Duncan doesn't work hard, because I believe he is one of the hardest working men in the league. I respect him. But KG worked his ass off just to get into the league, man. He came from hs to the pros when that was considered un-natural. Everyone wanted him to fail, but he didn't because he worked hard and didn't give up.
As for the leadership, KG is a leader by example and by words. His work ethic in practice is addicting and ferious. Duncan surely works hard in practice and in games and is a great leader but Kevin's leadership skills have sky-rocketed the past 2-3 years. He's really maturing more and more and is now a veteran.
Everyone knows KG works harder than any star, well...I think you do. On the 4th of July KG was at Target Center practicing when most players are on vacation. KG was working out with McHale and Olowokandi earlier this summer when mostly every player was resting. KG was recruiting Hudson and Hassell to stay. If it wasn't for KG, I think Hudson would have left.
Sam Cassell said KG works harder in practice than some guys do in a game. He goes 120% in practice, nothing compared to what he does in an actual game. He has improved so much. When he was drafted in 1995 he had no shot, very raw and really only an atheltic freak. He worked on his game over and over and after he got his fat contract he worked on his game harder than ever to justify the big contract.
I'm not saying Duncan doesn't work hard, because I believe he is one of the hardest working men in the league. I respect him. But KG worked his ass off just to get into the league, man. He came from hs to the pros when that was considered un-natural. Everyone wanted him to fail, but he didn't because he worked hard and didn't give up.
As for the leadership, KG is a leader by example and by words. His work ethic in practice is addicting and ferious. Duncan surely works hard in practice and in games and is a great leader but Kevin's leadership skills have sky-rocketed the past 2-3 years. He's really maturing more and more and is now a veteran.
Fri Aug 20, 2004 4:31 pm
I don't this we can argue if KG is better than Duncan. They have different playing styles and both of them get the job done in their own respective manners. Their numbers are very similar, however they have different playing styles.
KG, however, never really had a "good" supporting cast (with the exception of last year). However, with the team he has now, he can get them over the hump (if the team stays together for a couple of years). I really don't see them winning it this year. But hey, if Detroit can win it all, then Minni definitely has a chance to win it all.
Duncan, on the other hand, has had a good supporting cast for most of his NBA career. David Robinson was his mentor and by playing alongside D ROB, the game became easier for him. Garnett had to endure a lot more in terms of gaining experience from losing. Duncan won the title in just his second year. Garnett has been here for 8 or 9 years and has yet to reach the finals.
So, therefore, these are two very different players with two very different playing styles and careers. We can't really differentiate between the two to see who is better. It's like comparing Larry Bird and Magic Johnson. They were considered "equals" and the same should go for KG and TD.
KG, however, never really had a "good" supporting cast (with the exception of last year). However, with the team he has now, he can get them over the hump (if the team stays together for a couple of years). I really don't see them winning it this year. But hey, if Detroit can win it all, then Minni definitely has a chance to win it all.
Duncan, on the other hand, has had a good supporting cast for most of his NBA career. David Robinson was his mentor and by playing alongside D ROB, the game became easier for him. Garnett had to endure a lot more in terms of gaining experience from losing. Duncan won the title in just his second year. Garnett has been here for 8 or 9 years and has yet to reach the finals.
So, therefore, these are two very different players with two very different playing styles and careers. We can't really differentiate between the two to see who is better. It's like comparing Larry Bird and Magic Johnson. They were considered "equals" and the same should go for KG and TD.
Fri Aug 20, 2004 6:27 pm
equals? not until kg wins a championship. Larry would not be considered equal to magic if larry had never won a championship and vice versa.
Work ethic? heart? just because kg came out of high school doesnt mean he has greater of either. In fact one might say that the player who is willing to work harder and has more heart would go through the college experience first rather than head straight for the money. if kgs so nice and hard working, why isnt kg playing in the olympics? I think a player playing for his country competitvely for free and nothing really to gain portrays better work ethic than some dude who goes to the gym on the holidays to play basketball even maybe just for fun. Just because kg runs his mouth and sweats a lot it doesnt mean he has more heart or is a better leader. In fact I prefer the leader who is consistent win or lose in the way he treats his teammates and the game, for that is far more stabilizing force. If td is not a good leader, you would be hearing disgruntled comments from former teammates or the locker room, etc., which you dont. To me, san antonio has also transformed into an extension of tds personality, calm, cool, collected, get the job done, defensive oriented. I dont feel like minny has transformed into kgs personality to the extent that san antonio has to td, and to me that says something.
better rebounder? the only other guy who knows the ball from his dick in terms of rebounding on minny is the kandi man, and he was injured for half of the season in which he averaged 5.7 per. The second best rebounder on minny who played 80 games was latrell spreweek and madsen tyed at 3.8 a piece. Hell, kg has a fucking monopoly on rebounds on that team, he just hogs em all. Td on the other hand boxes and out and contends with nesterovic (7.7), rose (4.8), manu and turkogul (4.5).
better defender? i dont think so, just because kgs more versatile doesnt mean he's better. I by far prefer the greater team defender than the individual defender (see ben wallace, see bill russell), and tim duncan is the better team defender. spurs held opposing teams to 84.3 ppg, .409 shooting. minny held opponents 89.1 ppg, .414 shooting. A teams defense is only as good as its bigs man (see detroit, see houston which jumped to the top ds in the league after acquiring said big men), and there is no arguing that san antonio has greater defense than minny.
the kg led twolves played a past their prime laker team with a unit that is arguably akin to last years spurs team. They STILL had a hard time, and they STILL didn't win.
dirk nowitzki - 2.8. chris webber - 3.3. ben wallace - 2.0. td - 2.4. kg - 2.5
these are the personal fouls per numbers of 5 players. I wouldnt use them as a basis for anything, but its interesting.
kg a better 3 point shooter? what the hell, okay. mitch richmond was a better 3 point shooter than mj too, just thought id mention that.....
td may have inherited a good situation, but there have been a lot of good situations in nba history that havent worked out. The fact than td took a team that really wasnt his to begin with, made it his, and led it to the championship is in itself a difficult task. It wasnt as hard as kgs first few years in terms of personnel, but it certianly wasnt as easy as some make it seem either. kg now too has a good situation with 3 all stars surrounding him, i guess only the future can tell if he can ever be considered equal to td, but as of today, i say no.
Work ethic? heart? just because kg came out of high school doesnt mean he has greater of either. In fact one might say that the player who is willing to work harder and has more heart would go through the college experience first rather than head straight for the money. if kgs so nice and hard working, why isnt kg playing in the olympics? I think a player playing for his country competitvely for free and nothing really to gain portrays better work ethic than some dude who goes to the gym on the holidays to play basketball even maybe just for fun. Just because kg runs his mouth and sweats a lot it doesnt mean he has more heart or is a better leader. In fact I prefer the leader who is consistent win or lose in the way he treats his teammates and the game, for that is far more stabilizing force. If td is not a good leader, you would be hearing disgruntled comments from former teammates or the locker room, etc., which you dont. To me, san antonio has also transformed into an extension of tds personality, calm, cool, collected, get the job done, defensive oriented. I dont feel like minny has transformed into kgs personality to the extent that san antonio has to td, and to me that says something.
better rebounder? the only other guy who knows the ball from his dick in terms of rebounding on minny is the kandi man, and he was injured for half of the season in which he averaged 5.7 per. The second best rebounder on minny who played 80 games was latrell spreweek and madsen tyed at 3.8 a piece. Hell, kg has a fucking monopoly on rebounds on that team, he just hogs em all. Td on the other hand boxes and out and contends with nesterovic (7.7), rose (4.8), manu and turkogul (4.5).
better defender? i dont think so, just because kgs more versatile doesnt mean he's better. I by far prefer the greater team defender than the individual defender (see ben wallace, see bill russell), and tim duncan is the better team defender. spurs held opposing teams to 84.3 ppg, .409 shooting. minny held opponents 89.1 ppg, .414 shooting. A teams defense is only as good as its bigs man (see detroit, see houston which jumped to the top ds in the league after acquiring said big men), and there is no arguing that san antonio has greater defense than minny.
the kg led twolves played a past their prime laker team with a unit that is arguably akin to last years spurs team. They STILL had a hard time, and they STILL didn't win.
dirk nowitzki - 2.8. chris webber - 3.3. ben wallace - 2.0. td - 2.4. kg - 2.5
these are the personal fouls per numbers of 5 players. I wouldnt use them as a basis for anything, but its interesting.
kg a better 3 point shooter? what the hell, okay. mitch richmond was a better 3 point shooter than mj too, just thought id mention that.....
td may have inherited a good situation, but there have been a lot of good situations in nba history that havent worked out. The fact than td took a team that really wasnt his to begin with, made it his, and led it to the championship is in itself a difficult task. It wasnt as hard as kgs first few years in terms of personnel, but it certianly wasnt as easy as some make it seem either. kg now too has a good situation with 3 all stars surrounding him, i guess only the future can tell if he can ever be considered equal to td, but as of today, i say no.
Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:13 pm
wow..that post was really pointless.
First off, KG is one of the best defensive rebounders of all-time. Don't give me that Duncan blocks out shit.
Duncan is a better team defender? How so? Ever think KG doesn't really have ANYONE else to help him defend the paint? Rasho is better than Kandi, Duncan use to have Robinson. Rose is better than Ervin Johnson and Madsen is just plain stupid. Of course KG gets all the rebounds, HE HAS TOO. So don't knock him for being on a bad team, which you say has no effect on the player.
Also, better team defender...that is stupid. KG helps on everything, the Wolves have a good defense. Early in the year when we had lots of injuries AND A COMPLETELY NEW TEAM we were giving up a ton of points but late in the season we were one of the best defensive teams in the league, by far. San Antiono was slightly better.
You guys ask like KG is a pushover and can't guard the paint. KG is very dominate defensive in the paint, 2bpg and, from what reporters have said, top 2 in altered shots (him and ben wallace alter the most shots).
You say wolves haven't picked up on KG's leadership? THE WOLVES EXIST THROUGH KG'S ENERGY. The past teams KG was the only one giving effort. What so ever. This year, get a couple more players that play with heart and desire (cassell, sprewell) and KG looks like the calm one out there. To say the Timberwolves haven't survived through KG's energy is just pathetic.
KG not representing the US? Well, then everyone else is a bitch too. Why is Duncan going and KG isn't? KG just played the longest season of his career, he is prolly tired. Oh yeah, he is also getting married and his fiance doesn't want him going over-seas, she doesn't think it's safe. So I don't think it's fair to blame secruity reasons, rest and a wedding on Kevin. Kevin, I bet, would love to represent the country but he already did that and now it's time to think about his off the court stuff.
I still am shocked at you saying you don't think the Timberwolves have transformed into KG's energy as they have Duncan's. That is the most ignorant thing i have ever heard. Oh yes, Spurs have transformed into a Duncan team but they were kind of always like that, they had Robinson. To me saying the Wolves haven't transformed into KG as Spurs have TD is just stupid.
First off, KG is one of the best defensive rebounders of all-time. Don't give me that Duncan blocks out shit.
Duncan is a better team defender? How so? Ever think KG doesn't really have ANYONE else to help him defend the paint? Rasho is better than Kandi, Duncan use to have Robinson. Rose is better than Ervin Johnson and Madsen is just plain stupid. Of course KG gets all the rebounds, HE HAS TOO. So don't knock him for being on a bad team, which you say has no effect on the player.
Also, better team defender...that is stupid. KG helps on everything, the Wolves have a good defense. Early in the year when we had lots of injuries AND A COMPLETELY NEW TEAM we were giving up a ton of points but late in the season we were one of the best defensive teams in the league, by far. San Antiono was slightly better.
You guys ask like KG is a pushover and can't guard the paint. KG is very dominate defensive in the paint, 2bpg and, from what reporters have said, top 2 in altered shots (him and ben wallace alter the most shots).
You say wolves haven't picked up on KG's leadership? THE WOLVES EXIST THROUGH KG'S ENERGY. The past teams KG was the only one giving effort. What so ever. This year, get a couple more players that play with heart and desire (cassell, sprewell) and KG looks like the calm one out there. To say the Timberwolves haven't survived through KG's energy is just pathetic.
KG not representing the US? Well, then everyone else is a bitch too. Why is Duncan going and KG isn't? KG just played the longest season of his career, he is prolly tired. Oh yeah, he is also getting married and his fiance doesn't want him going over-seas, she doesn't think it's safe. So I don't think it's fair to blame secruity reasons, rest and a wedding on Kevin. Kevin, I bet, would love to represent the country but he already did that and now it's time to think about his off the court stuff.
I still am shocked at you saying you don't think the Timberwolves have transformed into KG's energy as they have Duncan's. That is the most ignorant thing i have ever heard. Oh yes, Spurs have transformed into a Duncan team but they were kind of always like that, they had Robinson. To me saying the Wolves haven't transformed into KG as Spurs have TD is just stupid.
Fri Aug 20, 2004 9:53 pm
wow, that was the most idiotic waste of letters i have ever had the pleasure of viewing. you should just kill yourself while your still dumb.
first off, i wont give you that shit about duncan blocking out, if you dont give me that shit about flip saunders system and how it ditters from kgs offensive rebounds.
are you blind? find me the quote whre i directly said "being on a bad team has no effect on the player". I said that if your a great player you willl find success no matter the obstacles. I never said garnett was great. Do the math, smart ass.
Like you said -- of course kg gets all the rebounds. HE HAS TO. Thats why he averages more rebounds right out of your mouth. He's not on a bad team anymore, so stop using that excuse. If you don't win a championship, its cuz kg's not delivering. plain and simple, to think otherwise is blatant ignorance.
the "reporters?
. oh okay, i completely agree with you now!!! Seeing as you somehow found a way to systematically memorize all "the reporters" articles that say good things about your favourite player, and conviniently discard the rest.
2 bpg? nice. duncan has 2.7.
find the sentence where i said kg is a pushover and cant guard the paint and quote it.
I don't remember every typing the word energy. Funny that you find a way to get personal over THINGS NO ONE EVER FUCKING TYPED. BUY GLASSES. BUY A TELESCOPE. GET A DICTIONARY.
I said san antonio has transfromed into an extension of tds personality!!!! Thats a completely different thing. Quoting you: "
Quoting you:
I agree, its pathetic. Too bad i didnt fucking TYPE that
Quoting ME again: "
hell, even if we were talking about the same thing we wouldnt be. Its like you somehow find a way to change all my "duncans is better at so and so because......" into "kg's a mother fucking rats pussy with no talent". I never EVER said kg was bad at ANYTHING. I'm just trying to make a statement and give a reason, if it flusters you so much that you can respond to the ORIGINAL statement or reason then thats your problem.
-----
kg just played the longest season of his career, he's tired??!!!! Poor baby, he's almost underpaid!!! You know what? duncan has a season just as long minus 7 games, and with injury to recover from and he still went even though he knew all the other pathetic bitches pulled out. Wow, college really paid off for duncan, he found a solution to spending his time with family AND playing basketball........ he BROUGHT them with him, wooooooow, he can do TWO things at a time. Security reasons? are you kidding me? we all know thats a fucking smoke screen to "I want to stay home and watch tv". I dont see any olmypians pulling out, and then these ganster basketball players go chicken shit. please.
read the above. I think its stupid when people reply to imaginary sentence.
first off, i wont give you that shit about duncan blocking out, if you dont give me that shit about flip saunders system and how it ditters from kgs offensive rebounds.
are you blind? find me the quote whre i directly said "being on a bad team has no effect on the player". I said that if your a great player you willl find success no matter the obstacles. I never said garnett was great. Do the math, smart ass.
Like you said -- of course kg gets all the rebounds. HE HAS TO. Thats why he averages more rebounds right out of your mouth. He's not on a bad team anymore, so stop using that excuse. If you don't win a championship, its cuz kg's not delivering. plain and simple, to think otherwise is blatant ignorance.
the "reporters?
. oh okay, i completely agree with you now!!! Seeing as you somehow found a way to systematically memorize all "the reporters" articles that say good things about your favourite player, and conviniently discard the rest.
2 bpg? nice. duncan has 2.7.
find the sentence where i said kg is a pushover and cant guard the paint and quote it.
THE WOLVES EXIST THROUGH KG'S ENERGY.
I don't remember every typing the word energy. Funny that you find a way to get personal over THINGS NO ONE EVER FUCKING TYPED. BUY GLASSES. BUY A TELESCOPE. GET A DICTIONARY.
I said san antonio has transfromed into an extension of tds personality!!!! Thats a completely different thing. Quoting you: "
Well, if kg has lots of energy and his teammates have no energy I really dont think his team is playing as an extension of his personality, do you?The past teams kg was the only one giving efferts. What so ever....".
Quoting you:
To say the Timberwolves haven't survived through KG's energy is just pathetic
I agree, its pathetic. Too bad i didnt fucking TYPE that
Quoting ME again: "
I really dont feel like minny has transformed into kgs personality to the extent that san antonio has to td, and to me that says something".
hell, even if we were talking about the same thing we wouldnt be. Its like you somehow find a way to change all my "duncans is better at so and so because......" into "kg's a mother fucking rats pussy with no talent". I never EVER said kg was bad at ANYTHING. I'm just trying to make a statement and give a reason, if it flusters you so much that you can respond to the ORIGINAL statement or reason then thats your problem.
-----
kg just played the longest season of his career, he's tired??!!!! Poor baby, he's almost underpaid!!!
You know what? duncan has a season just as long minus 7 games, and with injury to recover from and he still went even though he knew all the other pathetic bitches pulled out. Wow, college really paid off for duncan, he found a solution to spending his time with family AND playing basketball........ he BROUGHT them with him, wooooooow, he can do TWO things at a time. Security reasons? are you kidding me? we all know thats a fucking smoke screen to "I want to stay home and watch tv". I dont see any olmypians pulling out, and then these ganster basketball players go chicken shit. please.I still am shocked at you saying you don't think the Timberwolves have transformed into KG's energy as they have Duncan's. That is the most ignorant thing i have ever heard. Oh yes, Spurs have transformed into a Duncan team but they were kind of always like that, they had Robinson. To me saying the Wolves haven't transformed into KG as Spurs have TD is just stupid.
read the above. I think its stupid when people reply to imaginary sentence.
Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:52 pm
Your an ass if you think secruity reasons didn't effect some of these NBA players decisons. You know, most of them actually WANTED to go but they have familes who didn't want to see them go over there.
Great players find ways to win? Even if the team isn't good? How is that? I think an indidvual can take over a game but no way can one person single-handedly take over a season.
Spurs lost to the old lakers too. Wolves made it farther than Spurs did and the Wolves we're crippled. If I'm so blind towards Duncan then you must be blind towards KG.
Great players find ways to win? Even if the team isn't good? How is that? I think an indidvual can take over a game but no way can one person single-handedly take over a season.
Spurs lost to the old lakers too. Wolves made it farther than Spurs did and the Wolves we're crippled. If I'm so blind towards Duncan then you must be blind towards KG.
Sat Aug 21, 2004 2:03 am
magius wrote:A teams defense is only as good as its bigs man (see detroit, see houston which jumped to the top ds in the league after acquiring said big men), and there is no arguing that san antonio has greater defense than minny.
That is not necessarily true. For example, the Chicago Bulls didn't have a good defensive big man. They played defense with a collective team effort.
Same goes for Detroit and San Antonio - they play a role of team defense. Another example is the Utah Jazz during their finals run, Just because your big man's defense is good doesn't make your entire team's defense good. Look at Elton Brand and the Clippers. He's a big man who is considered a "good" defender, but his team isn't as good as his defense is. Maybe you're trying to say that it makes the team's defense better, and if that is the case, then it could be true. However, history has shown that defenses that win championships (or get very close ... see Utah Jazz) are a collective effort by the whole team.
But if you're comparing SA's defense against Minni, then SA has shown far better team defense in the past. That's one area where they've always excelled at and that is why they were able to win championships. Minni, on the other hand, has a good defensive team but they need to upgrade it to a championship worthy defensive squad.
Sat Aug 21, 2004 2:31 am
PRoPuLsiOnDJ wrote:the Chicago Bulls didn't have a good defensive big man.
lmfao, the names Dennis Rodman and Horace Grant ring a bell?
Sat Aug 21, 2004 3:56 am
Riot wrote:Rasho was the 2nd highest rpg with 7.7 and that's padded cus duncan missed lots of games.
Don't see your point...?
As for the leadership, KG is a leader by example and by words. His work ethic in practice is addicting and ferious. Duncan surely works hard in practice and in games and is a great leader but Kevin's leadership skills have sky-rocketed the past 2-3 years. He's really maturing more and more and is now a veteran.
I'll give you the work ethic thing since I really don't follow Duncan and his life, mostly his production on the court...but I still don't see solid evidence to make me change my stance that both TD and KG are great, and equal leaders. Both's leadership have skyrocketed the past few years. KG's been a vet for a few years already and so has TD. You can be in the league 3 years and be a veteran. That's how sad the term "veteran" has become and frequently thrown around these days.
Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:46 am
I just want the season to start,so all these haters can see the damn truth
Sat Aug 21, 2004 5:25 am
throwbackeckotl wrote:I just want the season to start,so all these haters can see the damn truth
I highly doubt the season will solve the TD - KG dispute.
Sat Aug 21, 2004 5:31 am
You people are starting to sound like Kobe fans, disagree that he's not the best atm and you're a hater.
Hehe, didn't I say Riot would mouth off with some non essential bullshit & then just say KG>TD? Ok.
Hehe, didn't I say Riot would mouth off with some non essential bullshit & then just say KG>TD? Ok.
Sat Aug 21, 2004 5:44 am
didn't you come up here with false stats? You said kg only lead the league in effiency last year but he has lead it ever since they kept track. And not only has he lead, he has dominated.
Sat Aug 21, 2004 6:09 am
Riot wrote:didn't you come up here with false stats? You said kg only lead the league in effiency last year but he has lead it ever since they kept track. And not only has he lead, he has dominated.
FUCK YOUUUUUUUUU
YOU AREEEEE ANNOYING fan
Anyways TD>KG
Sat Aug 21, 2004 6:14 am
I don't feel efficiency is a strong argument. So Richard Jefferson and Corey Maggette are better than Ron Artest? Brand is better than Dirk, JO, Ak 47, Yao? Ditto to Boozer, but add ZBo, KMart, Odom, and Amare. Dampier is better than Magloire, Big Z? Keep in mind that it's not as if TD is 21st on the list. He's right behind KG.
Sat Aug 21, 2004 6:26 am
Riot wrote:didn't you come up here with false stats?
False stats? Where from? What the fuck are you talking about? Every one of the stats are used are the stats from real life. Atleast I used stats to support my statements using stats. Not mouthing off with "ethic is better because blah blah" and making excuses.
You said kg only lead the league in effiency last year but he has lead it ever since they kept track.
Quote the exact sentance where I said that.
And not only has he lead, he has dominated.
I'll get back to this one in awhile.
Edit: here we go:
- Kevin Garnett: Effeciency %: .546%
- Tim Duncan: Effeciency %: .532%
Just a throw in: - Shaq: Effeciency %: .575%
Now saying :
he has dominated.
Smell it? Does anyone besides me smell it? Is it only me? I smell it, you guys smell it too I thinks, it smells like...like...like..
Bullshit.
Last edited by Jackal on Sat Aug 21, 2004 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sat Aug 21, 2004 7:37 am
Your an ass if you think secruity reasons didn't effect some of these NBA players decisons. You know, most of them actually WANTED to go but they have familes who didn't want to see them go over there.
Great players find ways to win? Even if the team isn't good? How is that? I think an indidvual can take over a game but no way can one person single-handedly take over a season.
Spurs lost to the old lakers too. Wolves made it farther than Spurs did and the Wolves we're crippled. If I'm so blind towards Duncan then you must be blind towards KG
again, what makes nba players more important/valuable than the olympians that go to the olympics to compete? Are you saying the olympians dont have families? contrary to my last post, i really dont believe you suck if you didnt go and play, but I think it is exceptional that duncan stuck to his word. It is not an exact method of determining work ethic or leadership, but it is something, and I think more relevant an example than say someone telling us that a teammate of so and so says so and so works hard. Give me a break. Actions speak louder than words. Just because kg publicizes the fact he practices doesnt mean td doesnt practice as often or as hard.
great players find ways to win in that they make their team better. A great player doesnt neccesarily have to in an obvious manner "carry the team on his own shoulders" ala score all the points, etc., a great player binds his team. This is my opinion, and I back it again with the fact that td has 2 championships, and kg has zero. saying td has better personnel than kg is almost a testament to the fact that td makes his teammates better. I believe td makes his team look better than it is, and always has, which is why san antonio has never had to really make any key trades to be succesful.
Contrary to what seems to be popular belief, The admiral in his last year was not a superstar, this is not to ditter from david, or to say he wasnt important, but he wasnt a superstar; Few players in the history of the nba have led their team to a championship without a clear cut second fiddle (and no neither parker or ginoboli are superstars yet; people tend to forget the neither of them have ever averaged more than 20 per or 6 apgs). Again i think this is a testament to td as player who binds his team into a succesful unit. Did he do it alone? No, I never said that, but I believe that his presence transforms the spurs into a well oiled machine. Td can't do it alone, and he knows and acknowledges and embraces it and trusts his teammates even when he shouldnt, i think that is another facet to his greatness.
In 99, guess who the top 3 scorers on that spur championship team were. In this order: duncan 21.7, admiral 15.8 elliot 11.2. Duncan had help, no doubt, but not the kind of help some seem to conjure up as if the spur team were stacked. I believe that td made his role players look good, and not the other way around. In hindsight of course it is easy to say oh he had good players, but the real question is would those same role players be held in as high esteem if they had never won a championship, if they had never played with duncan.
Spurs lost to the old lakers too this year? fine, i give you that. I won't make any excuses. They lost fair and square, plain and simple. I won't waste your time or my time by making lame ass excuses like other sore losers do, because i assure you there are plenty, but like i said they are a complete waste of time akin to sniffing a donkeys dick, because in the end what happened happened. end of story. BUT they at least have beaten the in their prime lakers before, and won championships, which is something minny cannot atest to. I don't understand how minny fans are mouthing off when they didnt and havent actually ever won.......anything! it baffles me.
Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:28 am
Jackass wrote:Riot wrote:Has has higher efficency rating. 9 times out of 10, if not 10 out of 10.
Every season? Please. Just the previous season.
See jackal, you said only this previous season.
As for the other guy, why are we mouthing off? We aren't really. But I'm damn proud of my team that took the LA Lakers who were created to win the title, not only win but cakewalk, into the finals. That late in the season, without your all-star point guard and his backup it's damn hard to win and you guys know it. I feel if Sam and Hudson were heathly wolves win in 5. I feel there was no question were the better team.
EDIT:
2003-04 Regular Season Efficiency Rating
Player G EFF
1. Kevin Garnett (Minnesota Timberwolves)
82 33.13
2. Tim Duncan (San Antonio Spurs)
69 26.80
2002-2003 regular season:
1-Kevin Garnett: 32.07
2-Tim Duncan: 29.94
2004 playoffs:
1. Kevin Garnett (Minnesota Timberwolves)
18 30.61
2. Dirk Nowitzki (Dallas Mavericks)
5 30.40
3. Shaquille O'Neal (Los Angeles Lakers)
22 25.55
4. Tim Duncan (San Antonio Spurs)
10 24.40
Sat Aug 21, 2004 9:47 pm
Ok, I take back my words.
But again, what is it you're trying to prove with effeciency? Shaq owns both the players in effeciency if you give them the same minutes, is Shaq better? Not anymore.
If you balance out the minutes & do a bunch of calculations, this is what the effeciency standings read as of last year, I'll give you a few:
Nothing abnormal about that, right? Pff...they have good effeciency ratings that's why they own, right? Wrong.
Now as hard as you tried to come up with some credibility, effeciency ratings add zilch to the conversation at hand, which of the two is better. You proved absotutelutley nada by giving me effenciency ratings because I gave you five players with higer effeciency ratings than KG & co. Are those players better? No, unless you're a moron.
All in all, get better stuff to support your arguments instead of these effeciency ratings. I gave you stats which are pretty reliable, TD>KG in rebounds. You gave me effeciency stats, I gave you better effeciency stats.
If you can't give me that we should just stop discussing.
But again, what is it you're trying to prove with effeciency? Shaq owns both the players in effeciency if you give them the same minutes, is Shaq better? Not anymore.
If you balance out the minutes & do a bunch of calculations, this is what the effeciency standings read as of last year, I'll give you a few:
- Kevin Garnett: .546
- Tim Duncan: .532
- Shaquille O'Neal: .572
- Kobe Bryant: .549
- Tracy McGrady: .524
Nothing abnormal about that, right? Pff...they have good effeciency ratings that's why they own, right? Wrong.
- Brent Barry: .666
- Brian Cardinal: .623
- James Posey: .611
- Reggie Miller: .599
- Yao Ming: .584
Now as hard as you tried to come up with some credibility, effeciency ratings add zilch to the conversation at hand, which of the two is better. You proved absotutelutley nada by giving me effenciency ratings because I gave you five players with higer effeciency ratings than KG & co. Are those players better? No, unless you're a moron.
All in all, get better stuff to support your arguments instead of these effeciency ratings. I gave you stats which are pretty reliable, TD>KG in rebounds. You gave me effeciency stats, I gave you better effeciency stats.
If you can't give me that we should just stop discussing.
Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:55 am
jackal, where the fuck are you getting those effiency ratings? KG leads the league in the past two years, so they can't have a higher effiency than him....
Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:12 am
*grumble* Little kids...
I'd rather use these since it's more fair, it gives a better perspective of what's what. With these calculations, that's the effeciency ratings you get. You gotta make things fair.
Where the fuck am I getting these effeciency ratings? From someone who actually knows what they fuck they are talking about. Not some headless KG lover who blindly comes up with bullshit stats such as effeciency and tries to persuade me to believe KG>Duncan. Eat shit.
As the 2003-04 regular season has concluded, I’ll list my Top 100 players for the year. Everyone with at least 20% of Joe Johnson’s 3333 minutes is eligible; so some guys who played very little (Webber, Mashburn) make the list, while others (Murphy, Szczerbiak) do not. So this isn’t “who had the best season”, but, “who played the best” in the minutes they got.
These aren’t your standard per-game averages. Production is scaled to per-36-minutes, then adjusted for team scoring/rebounding rates. The scoring column is further scaled to effective shooting %
I'd rather use these since it's more fair, it gives a better perspective of what's what. With these calculations, that's the effeciency ratings you get. You gotta make things fair.
Where the fuck am I getting these effeciency ratings? From someone who actually knows what they fuck they are talking about. Not some headless KG lover who blindly comes up with bullshit stats such as effeciency and tries to persuade me to believe KG>Duncan. Eat shit.
Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:28 am
they aren't bullshit stats....you're telling me leading the league in effiency means nothing? Wow...that seems pretty retarded.
Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:43 am
I didn't mean the stats per sè were bullshit, I meant using efficiency ratings to prove who's better is bullshit, thus bullshit stats.
Anyways, I my version of efficiency stats was more fair, it gave everyone the same amount of time etc etc, according to those calculations, Nash > KG? Is that true? Ofcourse it isn't...see...efficiency stats are bullshit.
Anyways, since you're a hard headed and not too bright, let me explain it to you in your way.
Tim Duncan has an efficiency rating of 26.80, Elton Brand on the other hand has an efficiency rating of 25.01...is Brand anywhere near as good as TD is? Please, spare me the crock of shit. According to you whoever is highest in efficiency ratings, that's the better player. This makes Brand the third best player in the NBA? Gehehe, funny.
Since Duncan was rated higher you might think I'm talking crap but look at Shaq's efficiency rating...in the 03-04 leaders, he's in the fourth spot at 24.93...OMFG!!111!one!111one!! Brand is better than Shaq!!!1o1!!!one!!!!
Get it through your brain RETARD...you're not proving jack shit by using efficiency ratings whilst comparing the two best players in the league.
In the end, I can say I've proven (as have others) that TD>KG. Using stats, achievements & overall team success.
You've proven that you are a biased KG fan who has no idea what to do when someone else says TD is better thus you look up stats that aren't trustworthy when comparing the two players.
Thanks alot, it was entertaining. You killed it though.
Anyways, I my version of efficiency stats was more fair, it gave everyone the same amount of time etc etc, according to those calculations, Nash > KG? Is that true? Ofcourse it isn't...see...efficiency stats are bullshit.
Anyways, since you're a hard headed and not too bright, let me explain it to you in your way.
Tim Duncan has an efficiency rating of 26.80, Elton Brand on the other hand has an efficiency rating of 25.01...is Brand anywhere near as good as TD is? Please, spare me the crock of shit. According to you whoever is highest in efficiency ratings, that's the better player. This makes Brand the third best player in the NBA? Gehehe, funny.
Since Duncan was rated higher you might think I'm talking crap but look at Shaq's efficiency rating...in the 03-04 leaders, he's in the fourth spot at 24.93...OMFG!!111!one!111one!! Brand is better than Shaq!!!1o1!!!one!!!!
Get it through your brain RETARD...you're not proving jack shit by using efficiency ratings whilst comparing the two best players in the league.
In the end, I can say I've proven (as have others) that TD>KG. Using stats, achievements & overall team success.
You've proven that you are a biased KG fan who has no idea what to do when someone else says TD is better thus you look up stats that aren't trustworthy when comparing the two players.
Thanks alot, it was entertaining. You killed it though.
Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:49 am
Tim Duncan is better then Kevin Garnett is.
You got owned son.
You got owned son.
Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:51 am
Jackass wrote:I didn't mean the stats per sè were bullshit, I meant using efficiency ratings to prove who's better is bullshit, thus bullshit stats.
Anyways, I my version of efficiency stats was more fair, it gave everyone the same amount of time etc etc, according to those calculations, Nash > KG? Is that true? Ofcourse it isn't...see...efficiency stats are bullshit.
Anyways, since you're a hard headed and not too bright, let me explain it to you in your way.
Tim Duncan has an efficiency rating of 26.80, Elton Brand on the other hand has an efficiency rating of 25.01...is Brand anywhere near as good as TD is? Please, spare me the crock of shit. According to you whoever is highest in efficiency ratings, that's the better player. This makes Brand the third best player in the NBA? Gehehe, funny.
Since Duncan was rated higher you might think I'm talking crap but look at Shaq's efficiency rating...in the 03-04 leaders, he's in the fourth spot at 24.93...OMFG!!111!one!111one!! Brand is better than Shaq!!!1o1!!!one!!!!
Get it through your brain RETARD...you're not proving jack shit by using efficiency ratings whilst comparing the two best players in the league.
In the end, I can say I've proven (as have others) that TD>KG. Using stats, achievements & overall team success.
You've proven that you are a biased KG fan who has no idea what to do when someone else says TD is better thus you look up stats that aren't trustworthy when comparing the two players.
Thanks alot, it was entertaining. You killed it though.
Thanks for clearing that up jackass
This should have ran him away from this thread 