LeBron James headed back to the Cavaliers

[shadowgrin]

LBJ handpicked Napier.

LeBron likes Napier same way he liked Mo Williams.

Just because LeBron had Twitter romance with Napier doesn't mean LeBron forced Riley to have Napier on the team, Napier is no Ilgauskas, Ray Allen, Mike Miller, or James Jones.


lol looking at the list above, with the exception of Z, LeBron seems to love passing to shooters.

Dwyane Wade shouldn't have forgotten how to shoot threes, maybe LeBron would have stayed.

[NovU]

He hinted his desire stupidly. The Heat should have stayed with Hairston.

[shadowgrin]

Fault's on Riley for being stupid on his desperation to keep LeBron.
Durant loved some Jimmer Fredette but so far Sam Presti hasn't gotten him for Durant.


Speaking of desperation I feel the contract the Heat gave to Bosh reeks of desperation even if it was to keep him from going to Houston.

[NovU]

You can argue Riley did a stupid job by trying to keep LBJ happy. But that makes LBJ inconsiderate dick.

[shadowgrin]

Can't argue with that as Cavs fans first found out 4 years ago

The real victim in all this is Dwyane Wade. He could have had 1 more year with significant $$$ because of his player option but he had to opt out.

Second victim would be Mario Chalmers. He was the player that LeBron, Wade, and Bosh would piss on when things go wrong, with LeBron gone Wade and Bosh would be pissed for the entire season and Chalmers would be the target of all that pissing.

[Sauru]

He hinted his desire stupidly. The Heat should have stayed with Hairston.

he stated his opinion. he felt he would be a good player. he did not say it out of spite or to try and hurt the heat, he is still human and said something about a player he liked. the heat did not have to take him

[Andrew]

That said, given the circumstances, it's only natural that the Heat would conclude that it was a move he wanted them to make, and thus try to oblige him. It doesn't make it a malicious thing to do, but unfortunately his words carried weight, whether he intended them to or not. Still, you could also blame the Heat for being overzealous and making a move without any kind of assurance that it was something that would actually keep LeBron in town.

As for the fans who are burning jerseys, I still say that's fair enough. Part of being a fan is being passionate, and if you're miffed to the point of wanting to destroy merchandise you bought, go right ahead. Like I said before though, I imagine at least some of the Heat fans who burned jerseys scoffed at Cavs fans doing it four years ago and suggested they shouldn't take it so personally, so those individuals are being a tad hypocritical.

Kind of the way it goes, of course. The difference between whining and valid complaint is how much you care about something. If you're not particularly bothered by something, you'll likely label those complaining about it as whiners who need to get over it. If you do feel strongly about the issue and sympathise with the complainers, it's righteous outrage and they should continue fighting the good fight.

Once again though, burning jerseys is a little rash and short-sighted since we have eBay. The moment LeBron announced that he was going back to Cleveland, his Heat jersey became vintage. Might as well see if you can make a few bucks off it.

[NovU]

He hinted his desire stupidly. The Heat should have stayed with Hairston.

he stated his opinion. he felt he would be a good player. he did not say it out of spite or to try and hurt the heat, he is still human and said something about a player he liked. the heat did not have to take him

well, ray allen stated his opinion he doesnt wanna come off the bench. He is still human and express displeasure about team mistreating him and making him feel disrespected.



Andew summed it up nicely tho.

[SoF'nAwesome]

Isn't #6 going to retired by the Heat?

Bandwagoners, Heat fans, true fans-- none of these justify a person burning jerseys. And ALL of them do it for that 10 second fame on YouTube or the news channels. Fake ass attention grabbing bitches.

If one was an intense and passionate Heat fan, one would bitch about how Bosh made the best of it.

Once again though, burning jerseys is a little rash and short-sighted since we have eBay. The moment LeBron announced that he was going back to Cleveland, his Heat jersey became vintage. Might as well see if you can make a few bucks off it.

This.

[benji]

Isn't #6 going to retired by the Heat?

It's the franchise that retired a jersey of a player who never played for their team. And in hideous fashion.

[Sauru]

He hinted his desire stupidly. The Heat should have stayed with Hairston.

he stated his opinion. he felt he would be a good player. he did not say it out of spite or to try and hurt the heat, he is still human and said something about a player he liked. the heat did not have to take him

well, ray allen stated his opinion he doesnt wanna come off the bench. He is still human and express displeasure about team mistreating him and making him feel disrespected.



Andew summed it up nicely tho.

i dont understand why you keep bringing up ray allen. the two situations are nothing alike

[Andrew]

Even if his tenure was ultimately shorter than most of us probably expected, I think you have to retire his #6 in Miami. With apologies to Wade, he's still easily the best and most significant player in team history.

[koberulz]

He was only there for four years, though. Longevity has to be taken into account with jersey retirements IMO.

[Moz]

He was only there for four years, though. Longevity has to be taken into account with jersey retirements IMO.

But then again they retired MJ's number who didn't play for them...

[Andrew]

Exactly. I don't think it would be inappropriate to retire his jersey, should they choose to do that.

[koberulz]

He was only there for four years, though. Longevity has to be taken into account with jersey retirements IMO.

But then again they retired MJ's number who didn't play for them...

Sure, and they might follow the same ridiculous logic and retire LeBron's. I still don't agree with doing either, at least at this stage. If something happens and he retires in a year or two having achieved nothing in Cleveland, maybe.

[Sauru]

the only way they dont retire his jersey is if he somehow wins even more in cleveland over shadowing what he did for miami.

[shadowgrin]

Levron James' essay being read by Frank Caliendo as Morgan Freeman:


Better video:

phpBB [video]

Original video:

phpBB [video]

[Andrew]

the only way they dont retire his jersey is if he somehow wins even more in cleveland over shadowing what he did for miami.

And even then, I think they'd probably still retire his jersey. I think it would still be justified, too.

Four straight Finals appearances, back-to-back titles, and ranking up there on the team's all-time leaders: fourth in field goals (fifth in attempted, third in percentage), seventh in three pointers (eighth attempted), fourth in free throws (fourth in attempted), sixth in defensive rebounds, ninth in total rebounds (seventh in rebounds per game), third in assists (third in assists per game), eighth in steals (third in steals per game), fourth in points (first in points per game), and first in minutes per game. He's also up there in the top ten in eleven categories advanced stats, including PER and Win Shares Per 48 (first in each of those two). He was an All-Star all four years he was there, a back-to-back MVP, All-NBA, and has established himself as one of the best to ever play the game.

In short, he's become significant enough to the club for them to at least consider retiring his jersey.

To put it in a historical perspective...Wilt Chamberlain's #13 is retired by the Los Angeles Lakers, having spent five years with the team. The Lakers went to the Finals in four of those five years, winning once. As far as his ranks on the team's all-time leaders board, he's fifth in total rebounds (first in rebounds per game), first in field goal percentage, first in minutes per game, tenth in assists per game, and top ten in four categories of advances stats, including fifth in Win Shares Per 48. He was an All-Star in four of those seasons, and made a couple of All-NBA teams.

Now, Wilt Chamberlain obviously was an important player to the Lakers, and an extremely significant player in league history, so it's not unreasonable for them to retire his jersey. But for what it's worth, his impact on the Lakers isn't as significant as LeBron's was on the Heat. He has fewer appearances on the team's all-time leader board, fewer personal accolades during his tenure, and one less title. If it's appropriate for the Lakers to retire his #13, then it's fine for the Heat to retire LeBron's #6.

Of course, that doesn't mean you can't dislike or disagree with the suggestion of the Heat retiring LeBron's jersey...or even the practice of retiring jersey numbers altogether, for that matter. From an historical perspective though, the Heat have just cause to at least consider it.

[Moz]

He was only there for four years, though. Longevity has to be taken into account with jersey retirements IMO.

But then again they retired MJ's number who didn't play for them...

Sure, and they might follow the same ridiculous logic and retire LeBron's. I still don't agree with doing either, at least at this stage. If something happens and he retires in a year or two having achieved nothing in Cleveland, maybe.

So by that you mean that Charles Barkley is not worthy of the honor the Suns gave him (same can be said with Bill Walton with the Blazers)? if MVPs are mandatory for a first ballot Hall of Fame that should be also the case, in regards on retiring jerseys, for players leading their teams to championships...

[shadowgrin]

LeBron is the player mostly responsible for 2 of the 3 championships in Heat history and he spent almost half a decade with the team, those reasons combined are enough to consider the longetivity issue as silly in not retiring his jersey.

[air gordon]

including PER and Win Shares Per 48 (first in each of those two). He was an All-Star all four years he was there, a back-to-back MVP, All-NBA, and has established himself as one of the best to ever play the game.

In short, he's become significant enough to the club for them to at least consider retiring his jersey.

To put it in a historical perspective...Wilt Chamberlain's #13 is retired by the Los Angeles Lakers, having spent five years with the team. The Lakers went to the Finals in four of those five years, winning once. As far as his ranks on the team's all-time leaders board, he's fifth in total rebounds (first in rebounds per game), first in field goal percentage, first in minutes per game, tenth in assists per game, and top ten in four categories of advances stats, including fifth in Win Shares Per 48. He was an All-Star in four of those seasons, and made a couple of All-NBA teams.

Now, Wilt Chamberlain obviously was an important player to the Lakers, and an extremely significant player in league history, so it's not unreasonable for them to retire his jersey. But for what it's worth, his impact on the Lakers isn't as significant as LeBron's was on the Heat. He has fewer appearances on the team's all-time leader board, fewer personal accolades during his tenure, and one less title. If it's appropriate for the Lakers to retire his #13, then it's fine for the Heat to retire LeBron's #6.

Of course, that doesn't mean you can't dislike or disagree with the suggestion of the Heat retiring LeBron's jersey...or even the practice of retiring jersey numbers altogether, for that matter. From an historical perspective though, the Heat have just cause to at least consider it.

haha you listed advanced stats?

another observation/useless commentary- the lakers have been around for quite some time whereas the Miami heat was erected 1989. to his credit James has compiled some extraordinary stat totals in his career. If James career numbers in Miami were put up against the lakers "all-time" lists, where would he rank? does that still make him worthy of a lakers jersey retirement??

I do agree that longevity should play into it. guess I'm sort of old school. from a numbers perspective they per say don't "qualify" but i could see why Detroit retired laimbeer and the microwave's jerseys.

[Andrew]

The advanced stats were there on the team all-time leaders page on basketball reference, so I figured hey, why not.

Interesting question. With his Miami numbers, LeBron would rank in the Lakers' top ten in three pointers made (ninth), field goal percentage
(sixth), minutes per game (fourth), points per game (first), assists per game (tied fourth with Jerry West) and steals per game (fourth). If you wanted to count the advanced stats as well, he's top ten in nine additional categories; otherwise, it's six categories total. So quite similar to Wilt Chamberlain's tenure with the Lakers, when it's all said and done.

Assuming he still had the same personal accolades, four straight Finals trips, and two championships in this hypothetical tenure with the Lakers...maybe they would retire his jersey. It's possible, probably likely, as it'd be comparable to Wilt's tenure there. As you noted though, the Lakers have been around longer and had many great players play for them over the years, so it's also quite possible that they'd be more selective.

Still, given the historical precedent set with the retirement of Wilt's #13, I could see the Lakers retiring LeBron's #6 if he'd played for them and accomplished what he has in Miami in four seasons. I think they'd also like the fact that they could add another all-time great to the honour roll, so to speak; point to the rafters and say, look at all the greats who played here, and rattle off LeBron's name while pointing to all the jerseys. I think there's a good chance they'd do it.

[SoF'nAwesome]

Assuming he still had the same personal accolades, four straight Finals trips, and two championships in this hypothetical tenure with the Lakers...maybe they would retire his jersey.

This. Nobody else did what LeBron did with the Lakers, Bulls or any other team for that matter.

And LeBron is already a Hall of Famer no matter what he does in the future. So, I just can't understand why there would be a portion that would disagree with #6 being retired except for some angry Heat fans.

Not only the Heat, I believe if one player did all that LeBron did during those 4 years, any team should retire his jersey. Be it the oldest or the newest in the NBA.

[koberulz]

It's not a matter of whether his jersey should be retired at all, just whether it should be retired in Miami. No question it should be retired in Cleveland when all is said and done.

But really, if he plays a few more seasons for the Cavs and wins a couple of rings, is anyone really going to remember his stint in Miami?