NBA Finals 2014: Spurs vs. Heat vol. 2

[Andrew]

Adam Silver.

[Lean]

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Come on, Manu. Gotta step up...or fall down, as the case may be.

Manu knows a flopper when he sees one.

Lebron - "I believe that uh[shakes head], [smiles] the man above is gone' protect me[raises eyebrows]." Talking about God or the refs?

Adam Silver.

BURN!

[NovU]

I'm loving the Finals and so glad the Heat evened the series at 1 apiece. These two teams are so evenly matched and I have no doubt these two teams are truly the best teams in the league by good margin. Last two games were some great quality basketball (in exception of cramp LBJ sitting out, the Heat went into tanking mode).

Having said that, as a Heat fan, I'm kinda concerned because it's a lot of LeBron and little bit of other big 3s. Sure Bosh was decent, Wade was decent, but I'm sure this isn't what they signed up for when they formed in 2010. Wade definitely has taken a step back in his game and Bosh struggles to get 5 rebounds per game. This isn't MJ and Pippen, or Kobe and Shaq. This right now is all LBJ, or lose 110%. This team needs to him to defend, rebound, make plays, and shoot high percentage in mass volume, Or the Heat has no chance at all to win the game. Look how the team performs without him on the floor. It's pathetic. This is concerning because he's going to be a FA pretty soon. I don't think you'd wanna stay too if you were in his shoes but rather go team up with Embiid and Irving in CLE or Josh Smith and Jennings in DET(lol).

[Andrew]

Honestly, I wouldn't be too worried if I were you. I'd be very surprised if the Heat don't head back to San Antonio for Game 5 up 3-1. Furthermore, if any of the Big Three are leaving, I doubt it's LeBron.

[Stress Fracture]

I have this feeling that Bosh or Wade will leave after this season. But then again, I won't be surprised if they don't leave.

[stereoxide]

Now this is what I've been talking about. Heat now will just roll past this series. LeBron just had a cramp so the lowly Spurs can get atleast one game and make the series less shitty.

[Stress Fracture]

Sauru, is that you?

[Jeffx]

Lebron just shatted on everybody mocking him for his cramp game. Idiots have no idea how cramps work and start talking shit.

Actually, I'm not surprised at all the silly Lebron hate from clueless fans and media types - Wilt, Dr. J, Magic, Kobe and even Michael Jordan got it too. Hell, Magic already won two titles(and had his greatest Finals performance in his rookie season), but he stumbled against Boston in '84, and folks pounced on him - called him 'Tragic Johnson'. So Lebron's in good company. Haters gonna hate.

[NovU]

Well said Jeffx.

Now this is what I've been talking about. Heat now will just roll past this series. LeBron just had a cramp so the lowly Spurs can get atleast one game and make the series less shitty.

You may not be Sauru but I must admit this kinda of stuff only can come from a person with vast amount of wisdom and knowledge in basketball science.




On topic of flopping, yes, Wade has been fined.

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But it's worth paying $5000 especially at stage this big, imho.

[Andrew]

LeBron did say they'd do whatever it takes. For him, that was a beast of a game. For Wade, I guess it's flopping.

I do hope they can find a way to clean it up, though. The fines are not a deterrent.

[Lean]

But it's worth paying $5000 especially at stage this big, imho.

It still sucks if they have to resort to that. Especially at a stage this big.

[NovU]

Everyone resorts to it because it helps, a lot. CP3, Lance Stephenson, Durant, Ginobili, Tony Parker, and a lot of players had their flopping moment in this season's playoffs. Did these Wade haters even watch last game? Parker and Ginobili did it too everytime they had chance to. Flopping's always been a part of the game even in 80s 90s 00s. This stupid notion that only the cHeat does it is quite annoying and blown out of proportion. Wade got fined deservedly and was just one occasion that he was able to sell it nicely. The discussion should end there. It's like as if people wanna discredit entire effort by the Heat just on single occasion of flopping.

I just don't think flopping problem is as bad as people make it out to be. Heck, there are tons other aspects in rules and system that can be improved beforehand. For instance bad officiating, and video review costs more games than flopping. There was one instance when the ball clearly went out of bound last touching Parker but still the ball was awarded to the Spurs even after the review. That's one possession rewarded back to the Spurs wrongly, +2 chance supposed to turn into -2 potentially(which is 4 to 5 point swing at worst). Wade's flopping was just one offensive possession that was converted to 2 freethrows (45% field goal scoring chance turning into Wade's freethrow%, potential 2-3pts chance into 2pts chance). But ofc, it's the Heat that got every calls in their way and won the game on flopping entirely. Lol...

At the end of the day, it's just one offensive possession that turned into 2 shots at freethrow line. Which didn't even happen in crunch time. That's a game changer? LoL

[Andrew]

It's another foul, and a couple of key Spurs were in foul trouble. It all adds up, and it's a blight on the game in general. As far as people getting on the Heat about it, this one flop might have been an isolated incident in this particular game, but they do have a bit of a rep for it.

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The thing is, the Heat are a fantastic team, and they do have that much talent. I think that actually plays a big role in people's disdain for their flopping and flailing; they're so talented, yet resort to some cheap tactics, thus people find it annoying. The fact that they are so successful probably doesn't help, and I would agree that there is a contingent of people who criticise them for it simply because they don't like them.

To say the Heat win because they flop is ridiculous, to say they win because the referees hand them the game is taking away credit they deserve. But Wade deserves scorn when he flops, as does CP3, Ginobili, Bosh, Parker, Durant, Westbrook...anyone. Sure, contact has been sold and players have outright flopped before now, but it's become a big part of gamesmanship in the past decade or so and frankly, I don't think that's good for the sport. The last thing we need is for basketball to become association football.

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OK, so that's a skit for a commercial, but the point still stands.

As far as the bad calls are concerned, I thought the offensive foul on Leonard when he was clearly fouled in the act of shooting, LeBron wasn't in position and in the restricted circle to boot, was pretty bad. Again, that contributed to a key player for the Spurs being in foul trouble, so bad calls here and there do make a difference. That said, the Spurs missed four straight free throws at one point, and the Heat played some outstanding defense in the fourth. It seemed like LeBron couldn't miss; he did a couple of times in the fourth, but who's counting, look how many of them did go in.

When it comes to the flopping and the bad calls - both ways, mind you - it detracts from the game. It mars an otherwise competitive and exciting game in a series that's for all the marbles. Can't blame fans for not liking that, though the Heat do seem to cop the brunt of it. Unfortunately that's kind of way it goes when you're the winner; even though you won on your own merits, it looks like you profited a lot more from the sketchy calls.

Anyway, I hope the series remains competitive, and relatively incident-free the rest of the way.

[NovU]

The thing is blatant flopping happens very very rarely and it's even more rare outright wrong calls are made on those silly flops. But its effect is overly exaggerated and gets all the media and people's attention.

[Lean]

Don't get me wrong, I actually acknowledge the talent and the depth of the Heat lineup. It's just that, them being back-to-back champs then resort to cheap moves like flopping, it just somehow takes away the credit they fully deserve. Heat are champs and the media are all over them, that's why the flops they've committed are 'overly exaggerated.'

That said, it also goes for every player who flops just to get away with it.

[Sauru]

The thing is blatant flopping happens very very rarely and it's even more rare outright wrong calls are made on those silly flops. But its effect is overly exaggerated and gets all the media and people's attention.

wade won his first ring by jumping on the floor

[shadowgrin]

I don't recall Bird, McHale, Kareem, Magic, Isiah Thomas, Jordan, Pippen, Olajuwon, Shaq, or Kobe flopping on offense during a Finals game.

For a defending two-time champion and three-time champion like Wade with all his talent to resort to flopping that's just cheap and low and deserves all the criticism rightfully so, exaggerated or otherwise.

[NovU]

Again, that's the thing. I am not denying Wade flops. I've been also his critique even in this thread. Just was pointing out that it's exaggerated by some mindless people (thus the biggest issue now) not knowing its real impact to the game while entirely forgetting that the Spurs have been doing it as well. Basically by people who are no different from Skip Bayless but they think they're better. LoL

[Lean]

Flops are not needed in the game. It's cheap. It should be banned. Players who do it: Heat guys, Spurs guys, any player playing on a professional level, Playoffs or not, on a crucial Game 7 of the Finals, should be penalized with something a lot heavier than $5,000.

Just to add to this:

But it's worth paying $5000 especially at stage this big, imho.

It's like telling a boxer or a fighter to blatantly hit a low blow to an opponent knowing that it would only cost them a point of deduction in their scorecard.

I hate it. It's disgusting. It's cheap. It's not needed to be done. Especially on NBA level.

[NovU]

Whether you like it or not flopping is part of the game. All great players know how to sell for a call. This holier than thou attitude is just silly. It's almost amusing how people consider themselves morally superior and lack the ability to empathize with doing whatever it takes to get the job done mentality. How is flopping particularly in the Finals any worse from moral standpoint anyway? It's double standard and self justification, to make you feel better about yourself.

Do some of you realize flopping's been around forever. Shaq would have dominated even more if flopping didn't exist. His defenders flopped constantly out of necessity while Shaq was consistently challenged with hard fouls with little calls. Where were all these morally correct people back then?

[Lean]

Where were all these morally correct people back then?

They were probably kids who are not aware of the evil called flopping.

[NovU]

It's because it was impossible to stop him without overreacting and playing overly aggressive. It's not because these so called morally correct people didn't exist back then.

[shadowgrin]

I didn't Ginobili know was such an excellent lockdown defender that Wade had to flop to sell the call when Manu went for the steal.

[rise]

You know what would stop flopping?

You get one or two flop warnings over the course of the season, and any subsequent flops result in technical fouls, and for repeat offenders, suspension. Regular season or playoff games, the Wades, Ginobilis, Hardens, and CP3s of the league will immediately stop flopping if it results in free points or even getting thrown out/suspended. Wade makes close to $20M a year- you think he cares about a $5,000 or even $10,000 fine?

[Andrew]

How about a penalty box? Having to sit out a few minutes of a big game, possibly at a crucial juncture, might be a deterrent.

Anyway, back to the Finals; figure Miami's going up 2-1 after Game 3.