The Most Overrated Player in the NBA?

[Dro]

Can't argue with you there...It's just that I still think of him as a power forward which is why I excluded him when I said Yao.

Yeah I hear ya, he's definitely a natural power forward and he plays like one too. But when the Suns go small and play Marion at the 4, Amare goes against the opposing team's center, so you really have to consider him a center for now.

[TheMC5]

I'm surprised that no one has yet said Carmelo Anthony.

I'll grant you that he is a gifted scorer, but he is not a great passer, an average rebounder, a poor team leader, a chicken shit (who runs from fucking Jared Jeffries?), and, this is the important part, quite possibly the worst defender in the NBA. He just looks lost on defense. Half the time he doesn't even cover his man, he just watches the ball and drifts. I can't count how many times Denver's been torched by guys getting easy buckets off ridiculous back-door cuts just cause Melo left them open for no reason. He doesn't even play help D. He plays defense as if his main priority is getting in position for the rebound to pad his stats, when really he should be the first up the floor on a miss for transition baskets.

You know, for all the flak Nash gets for his poor defense, at least he tries. He draws charges, and always tries to keep his man in front of him.

Don't get me wrong, he's a talented scorer, but that's all he is. For Melo to have success, he'd need to be on a team similar to Iverson's 76ers when they made the finals: a bunch of guys to defend and rebound while Anthony jacks up shots.

[Donatello]

I'm surprised that no one has yet said Carmelo Anthony.

I'll grant you that he is a gifted scorer, but he is not a great passer, an average rebounder, a poor team leader, a chicken shit (who runs from fucking Jared Jeffries?), and, this is the important part, quite possibly the worst defender in the NBA. He just looks lost on defense. Half the time he doesn't even cover his man, he just watches the ball and drifts. I can't count how many times Denver's been torched by guys getting easy buckets off ridiculous back-door cuts just cause Melo left them open for no reason. He doesn't even play help D. He plays defense as if his main priority is getting in position for the rebound to pad his stats, when really he should be the first up the floor on a miss for transition baskets.

You know, for all the flak Nash gets for his poor defense, at least he tries. He draws charges, and always tries to keep his man in front of him.

Don't get me wrong, he's a talented scorer, but that's all he is. For Melo to have success, he'd need to be on a team similar to Iverson's 76ers when they made the finals: a bunch of guys to defend and rebound while Anthony jacks up shots.

I don't argue anything you said, but how does it make Anthony overrated? Nobody's saying he has great defense.

[TheMC5]

I'm surprised that no one has yet said Carmelo Anthony.

I'll grant you that he is a gifted scorer, but he is not a great passer, an average rebounder, a poor team leader, a chicken shit (who runs from fucking Jared Jeffries?), and, this is the important part, quite possibly the worst defender in the NBA. He just looks lost on defense. Half the time he doesn't even cover his man, he just watches the ball and drifts. I can't count how many times Denver's been torched by guys getting easy buckets off ridiculous back-door cuts just cause Melo left them open for no reason. He doesn't even play help D. He plays defense as if his main priority is getting in position for the rebound to pad his stats, when really he should be the first up the floor on a miss for transition baskets.

You know, for all the flak Nash gets for his poor defense, at least he tries. He draws charges, and always tries to keep his man in front of him.

Don't get me wrong, he's a talented scorer, but that's all he is. For Melo to have success, he'd need to be on a team similar to Iverson's 76ers when they made the finals: a bunch of guys to defend and rebound while Anthony jacks up shots.

I don't argue anything you said, but how does it make Anthony overrated? Nobody's saying he has great defense.

I'm talking over rated in general, not in one specific area. There seems to be a large contingent of people who think Melo is a franchise quality player, when in my opinion, considering all his short-comings, he is not.

If we're restricting the discussion to one particular area of a player's game that's over rated, then Melo's defense certainly doesn't make the cut.

But I'm judging them as complete players, and Anthony's got some glaring holes in his game.

[Donatello]

Ah, see... again, not arguing, I've just seen different things. Most of the commentary I hear/read on Anthony is exactly as you said it. The offense is there but he's seriously lacking a complete game.

<shrug> Valid points, at any rate.

[TheMC5]

<shrug> Valid points, at any rate.

As are yours.

This is a very open-ended discussion which could be examined on numerous levels. Over-rated based on salary, statistics, reputation, etc.

Personally, I can't think of a player less deserving of all the accolades and attention he gets. That's why I said Melo.

[Silas]

When I saw Melo play, he was very, very impressive. He had an unstoppable midrange game. He would keep going up and up on his jump shot, even as the defender was going back down.

Of course the most impressive player of the game was Iverson, who would hit teammates in the head with passes.

In all honesty Melo didn't successfuly create drives to the hoop on his own much, or make great defensive plays, but he was still unbelievable with the way he could create a jump shot. I can think of many players who, when you factor in all the variables you mentioned, are more overrated than Melo.

[Kobe ftw]

Everything else?? slightly above:)) u're crazy:P


People act like hes the best in the NBA, best scorer? Yes. But everything else...well quite honestly, hes average, or slightly above.[/quote]

[Silas]

That alone still makes him less overrated than many people in the league.

[cyanide]

If we take money into consideration, I'll nominate Rashard Lewis as overrated.

[Indy]

Carmello Anthony is nowhere near the worst defender in the NBA. He lacks lateral quickness, but he is strong enough to make up for his low defensive IQ. The worst defender in the league is Sarunas Jasikevicius. Jamaal Tinsley is probably number 2.

The most overrated player in the league used to be Quentin Richardson, but he has been exposed. Baron Davis is up there.

[Silas]

Oh I hardly think Baron Davis is overrated. Guys like Stephon Marbury and Ben Wallace, or Jerome James, who don't play up to their big contracts, and, especially for the first two, are considered much better than they are.

Baron at least yields positive results for his team. He kept the Warriors in the game when they were playing the Mavericks and Jazz. If he wasn't initiating all the offense, it was whoever out of the five or six streaky shooters they had happened to be making their jumpshot at that particular time.

It could be argued that Ben Wallace yields positive results as well, but the Bulls have so many other good players and solid defenders, I'd bet that they could have achieved similar results with a much cheaper low post defender, such as Tyson Chandler, Kurt Thomas, Rasho Nesterovic, Etan Thomas, or Brenden Haywood.

[Donatello]

If we take money into consideration, I'll nominate Rashard Lewis as overrated.

A-freaking-men. I CANNOT believe that contract.

[OG24]

donatello i wouldn't say melo has the worst defense i would go with antoine walker

[Donatello]

I didn't say he did, either.

[Indy]

Oh I hardly think Baron Davis is overrated. Guys like Stephon Marbury and Ben Wallace, or Jerome James, who don't play up to their big contracts, and, especially for the first two, are considered much better than they are.

Are we talking about players who are overpaid or players who are overrated. Those are 2 completely different discussions. Stephon is a guy that deserved the contract originally and has declined. Everyone knows that, if anything because he's overpaid he's become underrated as a player. Money should not come in to this conversation because we are talking about them as basketball players and the way they are percieved.

I do agree that Ben Wallace is overrated, but it has nothing to do with his contract.

I'll explain why I think Baron is overrated tomorrow. I'm hungry as hell, and I want some white castle.

[Silas]

Well I'll be gone for six days, leaving tomorrow morning, but I'm interested to hear your argument about why you think Baron is overrated. He's certainly had his poor stints in between injuries, but when he's healthy, i.e. early days with the Hornets and the latter half of this current season, he's as impressive as I've seen in recent years when it comes to his athleticism and offensive abilities.

He seems to get into the lane at will, and he is a very solid shooter. He's streaky, but he's streaky in the sense that he's either absolutely on fire, or average. Sometimes he takes some questionable shots, but I think that in the end his upside in terms of playmaking and scoring makes him worth the shot selection.

When he slashes into the lane, the defense draws in on him because they know he's strong and athletic that he can get to the rim and finish with contact, and make people like AK47 look bad. He's got that vision that allows him to see his open shooters, and luckily on the Warriors he's got a few guys that can make that shot, though they all have streakiness problems of their own.

Either way, I think Baron certainly lives up to his hype. Everyone knows he's injury riddled, and that most of the time he's vastly under performing it's because he's hurt. Everyone has their off nights or weeks, but I think for the most part, he's a fantastic guard and he certainly showed that when he manhandled the Mavericks.

[Dro]

Prior to the first round series against Dallas, it could've been argued that Baron Davis was underrated. He's had all the talent in the world for a long time, but as Silas pointed out, he couldn't put together a string of great seasons due to injury. Seriously, how often did you hear of Baron Davis prior to the Mavs series? The only reason the hype surrounding him skyrocketed during the playoffs was due to his ridiculous level of play. His game justified the hype.

[Indy]

Baron has a lot of positive aspects to his game. When he is playing well and making smart choices, he is as good as you made him out to be.

The problem with Baron is that over the course of an 82 game season, he plays a lot of games where he is just flat out awful. He makes as many terrible decisions in a season as he does great ones. He has been good in the playoffs, and that's what you want from a guy, but he is simply unreliable, and that's what keeps him from being as good as people think he is.

You really realize how badly Baron doesn't live up to his potential when you compare him to Dwyane Wade. Think about it, Dwyane gets alot of his points by getting to the hole. He has developed a better shot each year, but that has never been what makes him as good as he is. Baron is bigger stronger and faster then Dwyane, and he has an excellent outside shot! Baron has more physical tools then Dwade does, yet he still fails to put up comparable stats or win on the level Wade has. Everywhere Baron Davis has gone he has lost. There is a reason for that.

[Axel]

Yeah, the reason is because he has been injured.

[NovU]

ironically, i can't agree wid indy this time
i would go with dro and silas on davis

nobody expected davis to be wade like
i remember watching challote(hornets davis) VS heats(wade,odom,b grant)in playoff, commentators said wade was definitely more talented than davis and imo, since then most of ppl expected less of davis (especially after wade hit game winning shot over davis)
so i don't think u can compare davis wid wade, simply not fair
besides wade was always with more talented plyer than ever davis was

6'4" wade 212 lbs
6'3" davis 215 lbs
i can't agree davis is bigger, faster, but maybe very lil bit stronger
and i think wade as more of sg and less of pg while baron is definitely a pg

[Indy]

nobody expected davis to be wade like
i remember watching challote(hornets davis) VS heats(wade,odom,b grant)in playoff, commentators said wade was definitely more talented than davis and imo, since then most of ppl expected less of davis (especially after wade hit game winning shot over davis)
so i don't think u can compare davis wid wade, simply not fair
besides wade was always with more talented plyer than ever davis was

That's exactly my point. It is quite obvious to everyone that Wade is the better player. But then when you look at the way Baron Davis is built and the style of game he plays, there is no reason he shouldn't be better then Wade. The reason is because he is a mentally poor player who makes bad decisions.

Yeah, the reason is because he has been injured.

Worst cop out I've ever heard. He makes poor decisions on the court way more often then any other player who gets the type of hype that he does, and it isn't even close.

6'4" wade 212 lbs
6'3" davis 215 lbs
i can't agree davis is bigger, faster, but maybe very lil bit stronger
and i think wade as more of sg and less of pg while baron is definitely a pg

Well, Baron is bigger. I'm shocked to see Baron listed at only 215 on nba.com. I know he came in to camp this offseason slimmer, but 215 is not Baron's normal weight. He is a very strong, big guard that can use his strength to live in the paint. The problem is that he doesn't. I know he did in the playoffs, and we saw the effect that had. The problem is he doesn't do that on a night in night out basis. If he did, and made smarter decisions shooting the ball he wouldn't struggle to shoot 30 percent from the 3 point line year in year out.

Baron Davis is simply a stupid basketball player that wastes franchise player type talent.

[NovU]

i didn't know people rated him that high in terms of physical ability
imo ppl underappreciated davis till this season
and i think he rather overacheived than overrated
it's only fair to say cuz he never receive wade like hype or kidd like hype and davis never was surrounded by great talents like those other super stars...

but i c sum good points in ur argument, esp on shot selection & waste of franchise talent

[---]

I remember when people were saying Baron could be the best point guard in the NBA when healthy, even getting into some MVP type discussion. That was during Jason Kidd's dominance about 4-5 years ago too. The hype was always there, but when he first game to Golden State he sort of disappeared. The return of Nellie, emergance of Monta Ellis, the Pacer trade and of course the series against the Mavericks was what pushed him into the spotlight again.

I really don't see how he overachieved, he underachieved because of injuries. If he overachieved, he would be an MVP candidate every year.

[Indy]

zan, if he overachieved that would be a good thing.

Other then that your posts are too difficult to read to respond to. They give me a headache. I really hope english isn't your first language.