FIBA world championship: playoffs round

[MC Hao]

EDIT: sorry, see the next post.

[Matthew]

Marsal, nobody said to get rid of wade off the team usa roster. I'm saying they shouldn't build the team around him. Agrred on howard should have played more, but not bosh.

Fenix, Carter has oroven he can lead in international competition. I couldn't care less what your opinion is of him and how he plays in the nba. Watch some tape of him in the 2000 olympics and tell me he cant be more productive then Joe Johnson in the international game. As for your rant about "why" team usa lost, just becuase europeans cried and hug each other doesnt mean they care more. It just means they're typical europeans. But hey if you adore the fact that they flop and complain after each call, then thats upto you. Personally I hate whiners.

Sam, how can you say Bosh is "consistant", he didnt do anything?...

NZspurs, you say Melo shooting is a bad thing. He was the only one scoring. If wade, Paul and Brand don't cut once the ball is reversed, what is Melo supposed to do? Swing it back into the guts of the defense. Melo played brilliantly, and should be given some credit. If the roles were reversed, and wade was carrying team usa and melo was playing like a disgruntled 6 year old, imagine the backlash for melo.

[MC Hao]

haha, i've been waiting to see the usa fail from the begining. nice job, greeks!!!

i hate melo to begin with, now i hate him even more. why cant they use wade as the no.1 option? if anyone on the team knows how to win, it'd be wade. and what's up with just coach k and a few players greeting the greeks for the win? they won it fair and square, stop being so arrogant and wake up to the fact that you arent on top of the world anymore.

anyway, does anyone find the fiba website a bit stereotypical? i couldnt help but laugh when i saw the graphics for the tournament. a sumo wrestler holding a basketball and a guy dunking over fuji mountain? hahahaha. what, if the tournament is held in ireland, are they gonna have lapricons holding a basketball and a guy dunking into a pint of beer?

[Its_asdf]

i hate melo to begin with, now i hate him even more. why cant they use wade as the no.1 option? if anyone on the team knows how to win, it'd be wade.

Anthony has been the top scorer on the US team, and probably the most consistent out of the three captains. Carmelo is also a better jumpshooter and compliments slashers like Wade.

[CERVANTES]

USA Team should be like in the old times, with college players. I'm sure they won't be as individualist as the actual NBA american stars.

[The X]

First of all, is it just me or is there an inconsistancy with the way the game was officiated? When the greeks were challenged on a jumper, there was a call. But when the US (especially late) were taking three's, and there was contact (hinrich and Melo's airball specifically), there was no call. I'm not blaming the referee's, but just be consistant. I know the us has much more athletic and skilled players, but its not upto the umpires to level the playing field, seriously.

I know the feeling, I felt that way when watching Miami-Dallas Finals' series when the Heat always seemed to get the calls....it happens in my club bball as well....but I guess that's just basketball for you....all I ask for is consistency as well....


overall, great win for Greece....glad they got up

[Axel]

I know it might be a stretch, but I would be in favor of a national team consisting of primarily college players, and a few unselfish veteran NBA players to build around. The college game is much more like FIBA. The only potential downside to this would be lack of experience... but I think it's better than what the USA has now, which is a team full of superstars who don't know their respective roles, and don't hustle.

[Fenix]

Fenix, Carter has oroven he can lead in international competition. I couldn't care less what your opinion is of him and how he plays in the nba. Watch some tape of him in the 2000 olympics and tell me he cant be more productive then Joe Johnson in the international game. As for your rant about "why" team usa lost, just becuase europeans cried and hug each other doesnt mean they care more. It just means they're typical europeans. But hey if you adore the fact that they flop and complain after each call, then thats upto you. Personally I hate whiners.

I'd say there is no team that whined as much as Americans did. And they showed absolutely no emotion or tougness. Times have changed since Carter 'dominated' this competition, not to mention that that Carter is lost in time and the current one will be what?, 32 years old when the Olympics roll around?

[maes]

That was really sad...you would think that team USA would respect an undefeated team and play seriously instead of jacking up 3 pointers like they were all Ray Allen.

42% of US's shots were 3 pointers...only 32% of Greece's were 3 pointers.

Discounting the 3 pointers, the US shot the ball very well at 63%. Ironically, exactly what Greece shot from the field to win the game.

And even more sadly, US would have been even more spanked if they hadn't picked up Kirk Hinrich as a 12th man. He was responsible for half of the entire team's 3 point production.

I'm interested to see how Greece does against Spain...if Greece loses to Spain that will really make me doubt the quality of the young NBA. And will the US even defeat Argentina?

Props to Greece...they ran the pick & roll to death, played hard D, and obviously knew how to screen...it's like watching an NBA team from the 90s

[Matt]

Marsal, nobody said to get rid of wade off the team usa roster. I'm saying they shouldn't build the team around him. Agrred on howard should have played more, but not bosh.

Fenix, Carter has oroven he can lead in international competition. I couldn't care less what your opinion is of him and how he plays in the nba. Watch some tape of him in the 2000 olympics and tell me he cant be more productive then Joe Johnson in the international game. As for your rant about "why" team usa lost, just becuase europeans cried and hug each other doesnt mean they care more. It just means they're typical europeans. But hey if you adore the fact that they flop and complain after each call, then thats upto you. Personally I hate whiners.

Sam, how can you say Bosh is "consistant", he didnt do anything?...

NZspurs, you say Melo shooting is a bad thing. He was the only one scoring. If wade, Paul and Brand don't cut once the ball is reversed, what is Melo supposed to do? Swing it back into the guts of the defense. Melo played brilliantly, and should be given some credit. If the roles were reversed, and wade was carrying team usa and melo was playing like a disgruntled 6 year old, imagine the backlash for melo.

that sums it up well, especially the Wade-Carmelo thing. Such a double standard.

Team USA needs Kobe. Sure one man can't win it all, but he's a better defender than either Wade or LB, better shooter, more consistent, experienced, less TO prone and he's a winner.

[Matthew]

Fenix, Carter has oroven he can lead in international competition. I couldn't care less what your opinion is of him and how he plays in the nba. Watch some tape of him in the 2000 olympics and tell me he cant be more productive then Joe Johnson in the international game. As for your rant about "why" team usa lost, just becuase europeans cried and hug each other doesnt mean they care more. It just means they're typical europeans. But hey if you adore the fact that they flop and complain after each call, then thats upto you. Personally I hate whiners.

I'd say there is no team that whined as much as Americans did. And they showed absolutely no emotion or tougness. Times have changed since Carter 'dominated' this competition, not to mention that that Carter is lost in time and the current one will be what?, 32 years old when the Olympics roll around?

Are you kidding? The americans complained the most? You're an idiot. After every call the greek players gave the look of a 40 year old ex supermodel who looks in the mirror for the first time in the morning. The americans would sometimes say somthing to the referee, but their reaction was nothing in comparison.
As for your quotation marks around dominated, vince did set the tempo for team usa in sydney, and was the dominant player in the olympics that year. As for being "lost in time", he averaged 24 ppg last season with new jersey. In the 99/2000 season, he averaged 25 ppg. 1 ppg hardly means you're lost in time.

I'm interested to see how Greece does against Spain...if Greece loses to Spain that will really make me doubt the quality of the young NBA. And will the US even defeat Argentina?

Thats what i hate about international basketball, its so different to the nba. It's like it was invented to counter the dominance of americans in the sport. If you put greece against the knicks in an nba game, I'll be putting my money on new york winning that.

I know it might be a stretch, but I would be in favor of a national team consisting of primarily college players, and a few unselfish veteran NBA players to build around. The college game is much more like FIBA. The only potential downside to this would be lack of experience... but I think it's better than what the USA has now, which is a team full of superstars who don't know their respective roles, and don't hustle.

Did you even watch the game? It wasnt a lack of hustle (with the exception of a few noted players), it was a lack of drive to outperform greece, not a lack of desire. Thats why kobe, Iverson, Tmac and Carter must be given shots, and the same with Billups, to take the reigns of this team. They know how to make big plays when it counts the most.

I know the feeling, I felt that way when watching Miami-Dallas Finals' series when the Heat always seemed to get the calls....it happens in my club bball as well....but I guess that's just basketball for you....all I ask for is consistency as well....

But with the heat and mavericks, the way that was officiated it was giving the benefit to players driving the basket. Howard went to the line a bit, same with dirk. It was just that the mavericks didn't take it strong, and also the heat have excellent shot blockers in zo and shaq who know how to play defense without fouling.

[spreeul8r]

"Thats what i hate about international basketball, its so different to the nba."

Thats the best part about it for me. And its more like the NBA has been changing to further boost the dominance of their overhyped nike posterboys.

An extra step here and there so long as the dunk is spectacular. Ban people from standing in the paint too long...again, this eliminates a real zone defense, thus opening up the key to flashy dunkers.

The NBA is moving more towards And 1 every day. While international basketball is starting to resemble late 80's/early 90's NBA. A mixture of athleticism, teamwork and intelligent tactics.

Give the NBA a few years and im sure this will be the #1 play of 2010:

Clocks down to 20sec...Philly Phunk have the rock...they need 2 to win against the Miami MOB...

"AI" isolates against "Pimpin' Hoes"...crowd are on their feet!...OH BABY WHAT A CROSSOVER BY "AI"!!!....Oh hes dancin' He's dancin'!!!...clocks down to 5..."AI" slips the ball inside his jersey, WACKS IT...it went around TWICE BABY, TEEEEEWICE...Lets see dem Euro's do dat!

......clocks down to one second...the no look shot missed, but forget about the shot, "Pimpin' Hoes" was clowned like a mofo! THE PLAY OF THE YEAR!!!

[Jeffx]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/5925616

[Fenix]

Are you kidding? The americans complained the most? You're an idiot. After every call the greek players gave the look of a 40 year old ex supermodel who looks in the mirror for the first time in the morning. The americans would sometimes say somthing to the referee, but their reaction was nothing in comparison.
As for your quotation marks around dominated, vince did set the tempo for team usa in sydney, and was the dominant player in the olympics that year. As for being "lost in time", he averaged 24 ppg last season with new jersey. In the 99/2000 season, he averaged 25 ppg. 1 ppg hardly means you're lost in time.

I haven't seen anyone complain as much as Lebron, not to mention Wade doing his best Shakespeare interpretation at every hooray to the basket. If you claim that Argentina, Spain or Greece aren't tougher and complain less than USA, you're completely biased. And like I said, Olympics will be two years from now, VC will be 32, he's playing with Kidd, international competition got better since 2000 and lack of offense is certainly not to reason why the USA lost - it's defense they should worry about. I have my doubts about VC fixing that problem for them.

[Andreas Dahl]

In my opinion, not a good game in any way, but congrats to USA none the less. They played bad team basketball but deserved this win more so than Argentina did.
Makes me wonder what would have happened if Ginóbili hadn't gotten that early bad call that made him sit out the third quarter...

Greece vs. Spain should be a good game (Not as good as Spain vs. Argentina, but still pretty damn good), but if Pau won't suit up, Greece will have a big advantage..


By the way Matthew, face it, USA was bithing most of them all in Athens, and they were bitching quite a bit this tourney as well..

[putodelagoa]

Guess this is a good moment to post my thoughts about this USA squad.
Ok, they won. Still I'm pretty far from convinced this current version will be a force in two years.
As it was the case with so many games before, it was their depth that kept them in the game, as the Argentineans looked pretty tired (defense and 2nd half offense, too individualistic) after the first quarter, when they were doing the stuff they usually do.

I think it's ridiculous that Oberto is allowed to finish a fast break on this guys, that Delfino can start a play 8 meters away from the basket and finish with a dunk, etc... Not against this team! Wade doing bull moves trying to poke the ball away , I mean... There are basic things, like don't turn your back to the ball on defense, right? I'm sure all this all-stars have some fundamental knowledge of defense, no?

What's with coach K? I mean, is he the right fit? I had trouble understanding his substitution patterns all championship, but he always seemed to favour the Duke boys. Brand over Howard yesterday? When he was snatching offensive rbds like a madman? Melo to the bench against Germany when he was starting to heat up?

And his comment on how "the usa team had to, from now on, get to know these europeans teams"? WHAT? Did he only prepare the game against Argentina? How is that as an aknowledgment of incompetence?

This team had no leadership (bowen?), or pure shooters. Joe johnson kept shooting 1 and a half meters away from the 3pt line. I mean, it's still worth 3 pts if you shoot it closer... I remember Reggie Miller and Mark Price popping those shots like they were in practice...

And why the hell do you bring two guys to stay on the bench? Jamison and Miller were more important than, say, Bowen or Arenas? Couldn't you use these two guys? Hell, even Richie Frahm would be more meaningfull as a shooter off the bench... The point is: you don't select guys you aren't going to use...

I think Battier is a keeper, but of all the "role players" people were making so much fuss about, he was the only one playing like he understood his role. I don't think the USA team focused so much on that "Alpha dog-role player mix " concept that was looking so promising.

Mainly, I think it's preposterous that a team like this should concede 90 points to China, 100 to Puerto Rico, not to mention the yesterday game...
I'm pretty sure they were playing under their abilities. And someone wake up Wade on defense the next time...

[Matt]

Team USA's problem is that the guys that were getting the majority of time aren't even above average NBA defenders. There's maybe 5 of those guys on the team.

[putodelagoa]

The 4 guys figuring on your signature would make for a better USA team, in my opinion. No 100 pts scoring games against those... Add Carmelo as the go to guy, some slashers and shooters, and make room for gold...

IT'S A NUMBERS GAME FOR TEAM USA

We thought the Americans knew what they were doing at the FIBA World Championship but in the end, they did not.

With their NBA players, and coaches from both the professional and collegiate ranks, Team USA crashed out of gold medal contention against a Greece team with no stars and no names.

And that second bit – no names – should be taken literally. They were just numbers to USA coach Mike Krzyzewski.

After the 101-95 defeat for the Americans, Coach K said: "I thought number four was spectacular in the first half, number seven was spectacular in the second half and number 15 hit huge shots for them at the end of the clock in the second half."

How many times do the United States have to lose in international tournaments before they truly know who they are up against?

The US team played with heart, and they were classy. They rarely complained about things on the court.

Number four has a name, though, and it's not difficult to say.

He is Theo Papaloukas, one of the Greek heroes on their European Championship winning side in Belgrade and the same man who led CSKA Moscow to the Euroleague title in 2006.

Doesn't Coach K, a legend at Duke University, know number seven, Vasilis Spanoulis, another EuroBasket star who was Panathinaikos' best player this year in the Euroleague?

Spanoulis has signed to play with the Houston Rockets for the forthcoming season.

Then there is number 15, Mihalis Kakiouzis, the Greek captain.

Kakiouzis is a big-time player in Europe with Winterthur Barcelona, a European champion with Greece.

If you don't know the enemy, how do you expect to beat the enemy?

That goes for the players, too.

Dwyane Wade, one of the team's three captains, had talked about Greece beforehand.

"We haven't seen them play yet," Wade said, "but I'm sure the coaches will do a great job in breaking down the game-plan."

Why had the USA team not seen them play? In Saitama, behind one of the baskets, seats are often occupied by other team's coaches and players watching games.

There was ample opportunity for Team USA to watch, if only for a quarter, the Greek team.

Even more mind-boggling was the Americans' lack of preparation for Sofoklis Schortsianitis, the 6ft 9in, 125-kilogram man mountain who came into the game and scored 14 points.

Howard did get burned by Schortsianitis as the big guy scored out of pick-and-rolls, but surely that could have been rectified at half-time.

Shane Battier, the Americans' top defensive player, spoke as if the USA had not watch big Sofo dominate Yao Ming of China in the last 16 and then France's Ronny Turiaf and Florent Pietrus in the quarter-finals.

"We didn't have any answers," Battier said.

Coach K also made a major blunder by hardly playing center Dwight Howard in the second half despite his dominating display in the first two quarters when he scored 10 points and grabbed seven rebounds in 13 minutes.

It was uncomfortable watching this Team USA lose. I love the Greeks, love the Spaniards and love the Argentinians, but I am American.

If we are going to lose, we need to lose while playing our best.

Why do we play China, Brazil, Puerto Rico and Korea in the build-up, and not Greece, Argentina or Spain?

Korea are not even at the FIBA World Championship.

Of the other three, only China advanced to the knockout stage.

Spain, meanwhile, played the Argentinians twice, and that clearly gave them a psychological boost after beating the South Americans each time.

Jerry Colangelo, Team USA's executive director, said: "I think we learned a great deal at this tournament, big time.

"There were a lot of good things, and there are some things we are going to have to do better. That is how good the competition is."

At least, Coach Mike Krzyzewski should learn the names and the players in the two years before the Olympics.

Know who the Greek players are.

Afterall, the two teams could end up meeting in the Beijing Olympics.

For now, he will return to Durham, North Carolina, thinking about numbers, and not just the two in the final score: 101-95.

Coach K said: "Number four was brilliant in the first half. Some of the plays he made … he was just terrific."

I think this is precious stuff on the coaching job... . Cockiness has a price.

[[Q]]

lol Coach K sounds like the announcer in Live... "Number 4!"

[CMinnifield]

I don't think LeBronze should be on Team USA anymore. That guy is bad luck. Oh yeah did anyone notice that cheap shot by Paul with 5 seconds left?

[Matthew]

By the way Matthew, face it, USA was bithing most of them all in Athens, and they were bitching quite a bit this tourney as well..

Whats with the bolded name? And the complaints in 2004 had nothing to do with their attitude this year.

I haven't seen anyone complain as much as Lebron, not to mention Wade doing his best Shakespeare interpretation at every hooray to the basket. If you claim that Argentina, Spain or Greece aren't tougher and complain less than USA, you're completely biased.

How can i be biased? I'm not from America.. and I never said Argentina whinge alot, and neither do turkey.

And like I said, Olympics will be two years from now, VC will be 32, he's playing with Kidd, international competition got better since 2000 and lack of offense is certainly not to reason why the USA lost - it's defense they should worry about. I have my doubts about VC fixing that problem for them.

I never said Vince is the entire answer, but he adds to it. He is a much better player then a joe johnson or jamison, regardless of what your absurd assumptions are of him. Plus, at 32 he wont be much older then kobe, tmac, battier and co.

Also, why is KG so forgotten with american selecters? He still has a lot left in the tank and would be an unquestioned starter.

Putodelagoa, you raise some interesting points about coach k, but he did start howard over brand against argentina. I think theres some key things team usa needs to address:
Help defense
Cutting once the ball is reversed
getting players who want to deliver in the clutch

But as for them being cocky becuase they refer to the players by number, give me a break. I wacthed the game and i cant remember any of their names apart from of the fact they all ended in opolis. Refering to their number is just a simple way to understand who is who.

Matt, out of curiosity, who do you have as the 5 above average defenders on team usa?

[---]

Also, why is KG so forgotten with american selecters? He still has a lot left in the tank and would be an unquestioned starter.

damn, i agree with that. KG would be a huge mismatch problem with almost any international position

[Dean]

I didnt get to catch any of the world championships, so i was just wondering if someone could give me theyre opinion of how Kirk Hinrich played?

[Fenix]

I didnt get to catch any of the world championships, so i was just wondering if someone could give me theyre opinion of how Kirk Hinrich played?

Moved off the ball well, didn't create much, shot well, his defense was worse than in the NBA (but probably still the best on the team), made some silly mistakes.

[Scotty]

yeah he did alright and as Fenix said shot pretty well, although it seemed once he hit a 3, he took more of them, thinking he could hit them-but took them from spots.

I still cant believe USA lost to greece though
Carmelo Anthony best player of the championships