fight in the palace of auburn hills

[#12]

the anger problem is ADHD or ADD i believe. My sister has it

[fgrep15]

From what I've read in this thread, Jermaine didn't seem to be provoked in any way. He just decked the guy.

Actually the guy was doing some hug move on Artest, he was either trying to stop him from beating up his friend that attacked Artest on the court or trying to help his friend out or something, but JO took him out.

Absolutely. It's not as if his life was in danger from some 30 year old fat bloke who threw a water bottle at him. Either go back into the locker rooms or move to another place on the court. Simple. Running into the crowd and bashing someone should've probably been the last option to resort to.

The game hadn't been called yet, so he couldn't just go into the locker room, and you can also get in trouble for being on the court in an incident, but he didn't have to attack the guy, but he was trying to restrain himself after Ben had chocked him, and then thrown a towel at him, and then the guy decides to throw the beer at him. It was like a 3 strikes and out thing, Artest got the neck attack, and was calm, he got the towel and got up but layed back down, and then he got the beer, and just couldn't control himself after. He's never been a guy that had good anger managament, and he was trying.

[Alcoholic]

I finally saw SOME footage on tv... I was flipping channels and found it on the nascar race.... I really don't care about what Wallace and Artest did. It really surprises me how someone like Artest DIDN'T fight Ben... he tried to stay cool, show the new Ron Artest, but then some stupid fan comes and splashes his drink all over him. Fights happen in the NBA, and this one would have been like others if not different. One player tries to provoke the other (who in this case does not want to be provoked) but the reason this is different from other fights is because of the stupid fans. Don't forget these are the same fans that kept the Lakers up all night during the Finals..

[EGarrett]

That was unbelievable...nearly total pandemonium.

Jermaine O'Neal seemed to snap more than anyone. He ran across the court and hit some fan so hard that both he and the fan fell down.

If you were a fan...why throw a beer on Artest? At least throw it at Rick Carlisle or someone you know won't run into the stands and beat the crap out of you.

UPDATE: Turns out the person Artest was beating to smithereens in the stands was NOT the person who threw the beer at him.

[Alcoholic]

I just saw Ben's shove... he basically put his hands around Artests neck, like he was going to choke him, but then he shoved him, and he shoved him HARD, and this is BEN shoving him... he could of really hurt Artests neck like that.

[Old School Fool]

The fucking idiot who threw the bear ditched.


It was crazy...I was playing a Video Game and changed the Channel, and Saw SPORTSCENTER after the Grizzlies/Kings game, and Saw the WHOLE THING, I was shocked and shit, Then I felt sick, then about 10 Minutes Later I was like "THAT WAS FUCKING AWESOME"



EDIT: I got ADD/ADHD myself.

[EGarrett]

It was crazy...I was playing a Video Game and changed the Channel, and Saw SPORTSCENTER after the Grizzlies/Kings game, and Saw the WHOLE THING, I was shocked and shit, Then I felt sick, then about 10 Minutes Later I was like "THAT WAS FUCKING AWESOME"

Yeah, in terms of sports fights that's easily the greatest one I've ever seen.

Update: Artest called Jim Gray and told him that he "thought it was an okay foul." and that the fan stuff "was just self-defense."

An Indiana reporter said that he knew it was going to be a problem when the officials (the only people who can call security onto the floor)...just "fled the scene."

My question is: After Artest beat up the guy in the stands...why was he just walking around, completely unrestrained and free to get into a brawl with two more guys seconds later?

[fgrep15]

UPDATE: Turns out the person Artest was beating to smithereens in the stands was NOT the person who threw the beer at him.

Yea, their was a group of guys, one guy I know was in there, and one of them threw the cup, and they were all laughing, then when Artest came charging, they all ran and left the one little guy alone, then Artest got on him and asked did you do it, he said no, then he left him but was being held by a lot of people.

The guy that actually did it grabbed Artest from behind, and punched him 3 times on the back of the head, Artest shrugged him off, then got a punch on him, and then proceeded out of the stands.

[Full Surface]

Let the lawsuits begin.

[j.23]

statement from david stern:

NEW YORK, Nov. 20 -- NBA Commissioner David Stern issued the following statement today:
“The events at last night’s game were shocking, repulsive and inexcusable -- a humiliation for everyone associated with the NBA. This demonstrates why our players must not enter the stands whatever the provocation or poisonous behavior of people attending the games. Our investigation is ongoing and I expect it to be completed by tomorrow evening.

The NBA has taken the following actions, effective immediately:

1. Indiana players Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson and Jermaine O’Neal are suspended indefinitely, the length to be determined upon completion of the investigation.

2. Detroit player Ben Wallace is suspended indefinitely, the length to be determined upon completion of the investigation.

3. Review of rules and procedures relating to altercations and security have been undertaken so that fans can continue to attend our games unthreatened by events such as the ones that occurred last night.”

and some additional quotes regarding yesterday...

"He was on top of me, pummeling me," fan Mike Ryan of Clarkston said. "He asked me, 'Did you do it?' I said, 'No, man. No!'"

Artest explained the conflagration to Gray this way: "I thought it was an OK foul. The refs told me it wasn't a technical and it wasn't a flagrant. I think Wallace's reaction was too much. I don't mind him pushing me. But he also caught me in my nose. I'm not sure what will happen regarding that. ... I was lying on the table when (Ben) Wallace threw a towel at me. I got up and then was lying down again when I got hit with a liquid ice and glass container on my chest and on my face. After that it was all self-defense."

Quentin Richardson of the Phoenix Suns watched the brawl on TV.



"I have never seen a fight like that in a game since I was in high school," he said. "Man, there are going to be some lawsuits. You don't think some of those fans aren't going to want some NBA money?"

Lamar Odom of the Lakers saw it for the first time as he was being interviewed:



"Whoooo. When you see things like that, just think about what it takes for NBA players to go into a crowd," Odom said. "Sometimes fans get kind of out of hand, but it must have taken a lot for NBA players to go into a crowd and start a fight."

[EGarrett]

I think the real question is...how many animated .gif's are going to come out of this fight?

[Doug]

I'm Glad Ben Wallace is getting his length of a supsension too he's a friggin dumbass, of course he was the dickmunch who started this in the first place if he didnt act like a little oh mommy someone fouled me cry baby attitude and took the 2 free throws like a big man and not some 2 year old cry baby none of this shit would of happened But of course he had to be a cry baby and shove Ron Artest man im happy i never picked up espn nba 2k5 cause if i did the first thing i would do is rip out that dumb picture of the cover boy Ben Dumbass Wallace and just keep it blank cuz he's a disgrace to humanity.

[Alcoholic]

im happy i never picked up espn nba 2k5 cause if i did the first thing i would do is rip out that dumb picture of the cover boy Ben Dumbass Wallace and just keep it blank cuz he's a disgrace to humanity.

[Wormy10]

Wow is this the quickest thread to get 3 pages so fast?

I also was watching the Grizzlies/Kings game and then Sportscenter came on and Steve Levy was like saying what we are about to show you will go down in history and all this, I thought somebody got shot or something, like a fan after a game or a player died lol I dont know

I was 1/2 asleep and then it started so i thought it would be a team fight and by the time it was over I was wide awake and like ..... WTF just happened

It was truly amazing

Also dont get me wrong I love Ben Wallace but I never knew Big Ben was such a Big Cry Baby

[And1_Aussie]

i saw this on Espn Motion...It looked Crazy there ..Artest dropping that Fat Dude....
*wonders if any fans from that are reading this thread*

[Amphatoast]

The worst part is the Pacers play tonight and have so many injuried players plus the suspensions. Looks like they going to have like a 7 man rotation tonight.

[Matthew]

I wonder how many people who blame the players actually watched the game...

[Eugene]

First of all, in a fight between Ben Wallace and Ron Artest, Wallace has the size advantage, but Artest is also out of his mind, so advantage Artest.

Now...

From what I've seen, what happened on the court was an isolated incident. What I mean is, Ben Wallace overreacted to what seemed like any other hard foul players give. His behavior was absolutely unacceptable (I don't give a fuck if his brother just passed away. If you can't control yourself in a game you shouldn't be playing. Don't bring your outside baggage on the court, there's no place for it.) Regardless, that whole episode seemed to be an isolated incident. It even seemed like things had cooled down.

That is until some idiot fan throws a drink at Ron Artest. Let me tell you something. It doesn't matter if you paid a thousand dollars for your ticket, one fact remains incontrovertible: these are athletes at the height of their craft, and you are not one of them. In fact, you are not even invited to their world. They play this game on a different plane then yours. Don't assume for one second that you are a part of this group.

So regardless of how much of a fan you think you are, how many autographs you have or how many of the games you've been to, you have no right to violate the sanctity of this game. You are not allowed even to presume to step into their world and throw drinks at them. Being a fan is as much a privilege as a it is a right. You cannot take it for granted. What happens on the court is basketball, it is men of the highest skill level competing with the utmost intensity, and we as fans are not participants, we are spectators. Fortunate spectators at that, because this privilege can just as easily be taken away from us (remember the lockout?).

And see, the sad thing is, real fans understand this. True fans realize what a precious opportunity it is to be allowed to watch the games, to be able to support the teams, to experience vicariously the height of competition. So how dare you abuse this right? How dare you take this game for granted?

Now this is important: these athletes are not obligated to the fans in any way. Yes, it is true that the fans pay for their inordinate paychecks, but if the NBA didn't exist, then these players would still be playing the highest level of basketball and competition.

I think the Detroit "fans" who were arrogant and deluded enough to participate in the brawl should be banned from the Palace without recompense.

All the best,

Eugene

[air gordon]

ha for once i agree w/eugene. jae, eugene pretty much covered what i was going to say.

but...

as i said earlier, everyone should be held accountable. lol you even quoted that earlier in this thread and yet you're telling me the players should be held responsible.

fans do not belong on the floor. what were they thinking?

In all seriousness, I want to see how the two teams move on from this incident. Let's see who it affects more.

In this thing, I support Detroit though.

lmao, how can anyone side with detroit on this? i'm all ears.

it's obvious that indy will suffer more from this then detroit. heading into this game, indy was already shorthanded.

[Jackal]

Artest's intention was to provoke Wallace. You may think otherwise, I'm basing my opinion on Artest's body posture after the foul occured. He knew something was coming.

[Matt]

i think they'll conclude suspension lengths tonight.

Pacers play, hehe, easy game for Magic?

[Matthew]

Artest's intention was to provoke Wallace. You may think otherwise, I'm basing my opinion on Artest's body posture after the foul occured. He knew something was coming.

All he did was foul wallace. It wasnt a hard foul at all. Wallace was out of line with that... however he shouldn't be blamed for what the fans did.

Pacers play, hehe, easy game for Magic?

Understatement of the year matt

[Alcoholic]

Maybe Artest was prepared to fight him, but when Ben choke shoved him super hard he got scared and backed down. That was a pretty hard shove.

[Fresh8]

Here's wats gonna kill the Pacers season!

Artest, O'Neal and Jackson -- who all threw punches at spectators in the stands or on the court at the end of the nationally televised Pacers-Pistons game -- were to begin serving their suspensions Saturday night, when Indiana hosted Orlando.


Due to the suspensions, the Pacers likely will have to put injured players in uniform in order to meet the league's rule of dressing at least eight players, ESPN.com's Marc Stein reports.


Indianapolis had dressed only 10 players for the pistions game, and only has seven healthy players available to face the Magic on Saturday. Reggie Miller, Jeff Foster and Anthony Johnson are on the injured list.


The Pacers will likely have to put Scot Pollard and/or Jonathan Bender in uniform against Orlando, even though they are both hurt and won't play, anticipates Stein.

- Damn that sux!

The most recent example of an NBA player going into the stands and punching a fan came in February 1995, when Vernon Maxwell of the Houston Rockets pummeled a spectator in Portland. The league suspended him for 10 games and fined him $20,000.



Among the harshest non-drug-related penalties in NBA history was a one-year suspension of Latrell Sprewell -- later reduced to 68 games -- for choking Golden State Warriors coach P.J. Carlesimo at practice.



Kermit Washington of the Los Angeles Lakers drew a 60-day (26-game) suspension in 1977 for a punch that broke the jaw of the Houston Rockets' Rudy Tomjanovich during a game, while Dennis Rodman was suspended 11 games for kicking a courtside cameraman in the groin and six games for head-butting a referee.

- Past incidents.... lol @ Spree... i never knew it happened...

"After the initial encounter on the court, the players were under control. As fans quickly became involved, the situation escalated," Walsh said. "More specifically, the safety of everyone present was compromised, and that is of great concern for us."



Two of the nine people treated for injuries were taken to a hospital, police said. Detectives planned to collect and analyze video footage, interview witnesses and examine medical records.

- Judging from law... the Pistons can be sued because they had an obligation to owe a duty of care to the fans and since that security guy said that it was foreseen to be possible this could have happened... i think those fans could get a hell lot of money

Especially the guy Artest bashed. Assualty for Artest and Detroit Pistons will have to do a payout...

[Matt]

i think ths incident just proves that Jo, Jax and Artest are all nut cases....i didn't have any doubt about Artest though. Last season he elbows RIP Hamilton on purpose in the nose (which had been broken 3 times already) and now he aggravates Ben Wallace, he's gonna get what's coming to him....kinda like K-Mart who used to be a 'bully' until he had his nose broken

If the Pacers didn't get involved then only Ben Wallace would have been suspended. I don't know what the NBA will do, i mean every player (except Prince i think) poured onto the court so that means a suspension and also Rasheed, Harrison and Gill were in the stands trying to calm things down but that still might warrant a suspension. If everyone is suspended i guess the league might use a 3 players at a time kind of thing.

as far as liability goes, duty of care is owed to the fans but was it reasonably forseeable that the actions that took place would happen. No, this was a one off incident. Anyways, i'm not sure if the security problem is the Pistons or NBA's in general but i guess there will be more security at games and on Dec 25th there will be a riot squad.