Bulls vs. Heat Observations

-Well, I've been sick for the past 3 weeks...coming down with the flu then recovering just in time to get a throat infection from drinking a half carton of iced tea that had a fungus plant in the bottom.

-But my loss is your gain, as I recovered enough last night to watch some television. For some reason we get Chicago's WGN superstation in Tallahassee so we can watch the Bulls get raped by whatever team happens by while the announcers ignore the game and make excuses. Last night that team was the lottery bound Miami Heat. Seeing as how neither of these teams are national tv darlings I thought I would watch the game and bless you with some observations...

-Having seen him play in College, the Rookie Game, the Olympics, and a few times for the Bulls, it's confirmed. Jay Williams, for long stretches, is as good as any point guard in the league. This is coming from a Nets fan who watches the best point in the NBA regularly. He is blindingly quick, has excellent control of the ball...and is a master of the drive-and-dish.

-Jay is a better passer than a shooter now, but I think that will change. His jump shooting reminds me of Jason Kidd. That may not sound like a compliment but it is. This is because he pulls up fast and smooth enough that his shot, while inaccurate now, is completely unblockable. He has nice form though and when he gets hot, or works the kinks out of it, he'll be one of the better scorers around.

-It's a shame to watch the guy come down, blow by Eddie Jones with a crossover, get in the lane and lay the ball off to Donyell Marshall for the open dunk...then on the very next possession be forced to awkwardly run around in the triangle and barely accomplish anything. Then, on the possession after that, Jalen Rose ignores his call for the ball and takes the ball up and shoots it himself. Don't let his numbers fool you, Jay was the best player in the draft and worthy of the #2 pick...but the Bulls are using a thoroughbred to plow the fields right now...

-Speaking of Jalen Rose...he's not a point guard, he just plays one on TV. The guy is an A-level ballhandler and shooter for his size...but about a C+ passer. I saw him ignore open people plenty of times in the halfcourt in favor of taking his own jumper. The announcers would claim this was because "Jalen's feeling it" but no matter how much you're feeling it you're better off letting your power forward dunk the ball then taking an 18-foot jumper. He also can't run the fast break very well. He's a great scorer and shooter...but he's convinced he's something he's not.

-You know those guys that they say "have a nose for the ball?" Eddy Curry doesn't. He doesn't box out, rarely jumps or makes a play for the ball, and doesn't fight hard for position. I watched Travis Best drive in on him and Eddy just kind of raised his hands nonchalantly and let Best blow by. He's a good post player, very adept at bumping people with his huge shoulders and making little lay-in's...but geez Eddy...play with some heart.

-When last I saw Tyson Chandler...I was watching him get beaten like a stepchild by 6'8" Ousmane Cisse live in a high school tournament game. He played like a punk then but he's improved a lot in his toughness now. When I stopped watching the game last night (when the Bulls were down by like 15 or so with half a quarter left) Chandler had like 3 points but he'll be much better than that. He got his hands on loads of offensive tip-ins but didn't quite get them in the rim. He also tried to dunk on Malik Allen and got hit hard. He showed a nice post-up and turnaround jumper that didn't hit. With his improved heart he's showing how physically dominant a 7'1" kid with his kind of length and athleticism can be. If he can put on about 15-20 pounds and get that jumper going he'll be nice.

-Jamal Crawford is good, but not as good as Jay Williams. You'd forget he was 6'6" watching him handle the ball and make plays. He seems to have a lot of skills that he has yet to put together into a cohesive game. Maybe it's a lack of court awareness?

-Eddie Jones is a jerk. Brian Grant is a great rebounder...but plays dirty. Travis Best is the fastest guy on the court when I watch him play and that was no different. He also has a short-armed, rainbow jumper that never looks like it's going to fall but always seems to do so.

In the words of Nathaniel...that's it...bye...I'm spent.

tyson chandler baaaaaaaby

or some reason we get Chicago's WGN superstation in Tallahassee

It's a national cable channel, you can get it in Washington, Colorado, North Carolina, jtlyk.

In some places you won't get that channel, I used to have it on satellite, but with cable I don't have it.

About Chandler I think his problem is focus and determination. I watch some games where he completely picks apart teams (namely against Philly) when he had 20+ 15+ rebs and 7 blocks. He can have a monster game once every 4 weeks or so. If he starts to get focused and determined to be a baller he can be good.

Saying Jay is THAT good is a bit of an overstatement but he has the potential. I remember watching Duke and seeing him pull from wherever and can it. He seems to have lost his touch...or maybe its just the NCAA's baby three point line.

Jalen hasn't been at the PG position in 3 years. And since he IS the best scorer on the team I don't have a problem with him jacking...It is Jalen Rose we are talking about...

I always liked Crawford but every since his knee injury he doesn't drive as much, which was something he did well.

Curry Reminds me of Kwame Brown... Nuff Said.

I have no idea why u say Jones is a jerk.

Physically, Tyson has the size, coordination, and leaping ability to be another Kevin Garnett. I've always had serious doubts about him mentally though. I think he's gotten used to things coming easily for him in basketball and it's going to take a while before he learns the proper work ethic needed to excel at the NBA level.

Have you ever noticed that players like KG and Shaq...who've maximized their great physical gifts...were always regularly schooled at the court by someone much older when they were young? I think that struggle is necessary for players with physical gifts to push themselves. I don't think Tyson, Kwame and Eddy were in that situation so we'll see how they react.

Saying Jay is THAT good is a bit of an overstatement but he has the potential. I remember watching Duke and seeing him pull from wherever and can it. He seems to have lost his touch...or maybe its just the NCAA's baby three point line.

You're right about his jumper, but he still gets it off. How many point guards have you seen that can create their own shot, get to the basket at will and dish off that well? Especially with his strength and athleticism? Aside from Baron Davis, Stephon Marbury and Steve Francis I can't think of that many. Jay also seems very intelligent which is invaluable for someone running an offense. In the proper system, he'll develop at least into a Mike Bibby-level player. Right now he's being stunted by Jalen Rose and the triangle.

Jalen hasn't been at the PG position in 3 years. And since he IS the best scorer on the team I don't have a problem with him jacking...It is Jalen Rose we are talking about...

Jacking shots is fine. Taking the inbounding pass from your point guard, dribbling all the way up the court, ignoring your teammates and then jacking is awful. They need to get rid of him asap. Doesn't Atlanta need a big point or shooting guard?

It's a national cable channel, you can get it in Washington, Colorado, North Carolina, jtlyk.

Ah. Well that explains it. They're still awfully focused on Chicago for a national network...

I have no idea why u say Jones is a jerk.

From watching him play...and from what I understand he still refers to himself as an All-Star when trash talking despite having basically no chance of ever making the team again...

Ah. Well that explains it. They're still awfully focused on Chicago for a national network...

They aren't really a national network per say...they are a Chicago network that is televised nationally.

From watching him play...and from what I understand he still refers to himself as an All-Star when trash talking despite having basically no chance of ever making the team again...

I'm with Maja there, I was going to post it but decided not to do it cause for me looks like you don't like him. Now some think the version of being all-stars are only those who went to the most recent all-star game, so Jones, G. Robinson, Allen, Rahim, Rasheed, none of them are considered all-stars. However, I might add a comment to that, maybe they are not all-stars but they are NBA Superstars which would be higher. Jones is a superstar, not a jerk, he had to stop his style to play Riley's style (getting the ball to the big men, shooting the ball in the last few seconds of the shot clock, etc), but he's still that great player who can do it all.

Last edited by scubilete on Tue Feb 25, 2003 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

Yeah EG... Whatever happened to Eddie Jones? He used to be a player.

maybe they are not all-stars but they are NBA Superstars which would be higher.

probably more a NBA star than a SUPER-star

Ray Allen is a SUperstar even though not an all-star...What do u think he's on the USA team?

I knew EJ on the personal tip because my cousin Joseph Robinson balled with him at Temple and started with him freshman year before Rick Brunson. EJ would hang out with my cousin JoJo and I know he's not a jerk. EJ is still the great defensive player he was and has earned the right and respect of other players in the league to talk shit...This isn't like when Jerome Williams was downing Lebron James...When Jerome Will talks shit then there is a problem.

I completely agree with scubilete because each person he named is a better and more consistant basketball player then Brad Miller, who was an All-Star this year. So if you saying Sheed's not an all start compared to Brad...Thats not right.

Have you ever noticed that players like KG and Shaq...who've maximized their great physical gifts...were always regularly schooled at the court by someone much older when they were young? I think that struggle is necessary for players with physical gifts to push themselves. I don't think Tyson, Kwame and Eddy were in that situation so we'll see how they react.

I agree completely. Looking at Shaq he played against Zo, Dik, Pat, Hakeem and David Robinson game Shaq 70+ points...Since they played these great guys on the regular they got used to the style. The New breed doesn't have great big men to play against to give them the feel and experiance, so when they go against the dominant Center in the League Shaq, turn out the light because they will be beaten up.

in response to egarretts post:


*chicago may possibly have the worst play by play/color commentators in the nba. johnny red kerr is nice guy and everything but how does someone keep their job if they are consistently bad? i hope john paxson takes his place next year

a few good months don't make a player's career but...

*jay williams has been a disappointment in my mind. he was supposed to be an immediate impact player but has not even gotten close to living up to that billing. i'll let him slide because since it is his first year and being a PG in the NBA is one toughest adjustments to make from college. but i do find it alarming that he was crying/complaining about the triangle offense and what not. ironically, the bulls seldom run the triangle, maybe 10-15% of the time. and also he asked to go on the IR so he can get his head together.

*in a good team, rose would be the #2 scoring option. lately, Rose has been unselfish by conceding shots to big guys then establishing himself towards the end of the game. but he still takes questionable shots and shoots a bad fg%. i agree with egarret's point that he thinks he something he's not. but until the youngsters develop, rose is the best player the bulls got.

*someone must lit a fire under Curry's arse. early in the season he looked like another thomas hamilton. but now he's been playing like a beast in the post. yeh, Curry does look somewhat lost on defense at times, but his offense has come along very well. he's at the point where he is seeing double/triple teams. he currently leads the league in FG%. too bad coach cartwright doesn't leave him in at the end of close games.

*what curry lacks on defense, Chandler more then makes up for it. he's averaging a double double since all star break. i think he has the tools be a jermaine o'neal type player.

*since landing the starting pg spot, crawford is playing his best ball since entering the league. the offense looks smoother when he handles the point and the team record is better when he is the starting pg. he looks like the better pg on the team.

*IMO keeping both crawford and williams on the same team will not benefit the team or both individuals. it's obvious both need a lot PT in order to develop. sliding crawford over to SG isn't a bad idea. the j-crew lineup (williams, crawford, rose) did well against the bucks the other day. but they would get destroyed on defense as those 3 are all defensive liabilties. i think it's a tough situation: crawford has earned/proved he should be the starting PG. but the bulls didn't draft jay williams to come off the bench. and i don't think the organization is going to give up on jay will after only 1 year.

*jay williams has been a disappointment in my mind. he was supposed to be an immediate impact player but has not even gotten close to living up to that billing. i'll let him slide because since it is his first year and being a PG in the NBA is one toughest adjustments to make from college. but i do find it alarming that he was crying/complaining about the triangle offense and what not. ironically, the bulls seldom run the triangle, maybe 10-15% of the time. and also he asked to go on the IR so he can get his head together.

I think it all comes down to the offence the Bulls are running. They run the triangle a hell of a lot more than 10 or 15% of the time and when they aren't running that they are running an isolation for Rose. Williams needs a free flowing offence where he is in charge. Maybe the Bulls aren't ready to give him that responsibility? He is definately having trouble adjusting to the league, but it won't take him too long to get it together.

*someone must lit a fire under Curry's arse. early in the season he looked like another thomas hamilton. but now he's been playing like a beast in the post. yeh, Curry does look somewhat lost on defense at times, but his offense has come along very well. he's at the point where he is seeing double/triple teams. he currently leads the league in FG%. too bad coach cartwright doesn't leave him in at the end of close games.

This is exactly what myself and a few more people have been saying, give him time and he will prove all the doubters wrong. This kid has mad potential and is going to be as dominant as Shaq is after he has worked on his game a little (especially his defense). Chicago have finally figured out the only way to get the young guys to produce is to play them. Maybe if Washington gave Kwame some decent minutes he could come along just as Curry and Chandler have.

*IMO keeping both crawford and williams on the same team will not benefit the team or both individuals. it's obvious both need a lot PT in order to develop. sliding crawford over to SG isn't a bad idea. the j-crew lineup (williams, crawford, rose) did well against the bucks the other day. but they would get destroyed on defense as those 3 are all defensive liabilties. i think it's a tough situation: crawford has earned/proved he should be the starting PG. but the bulls didn't draft jay williams to come off the bench. and i don't think the organization is going to give up on jay will after only 1 year.

They have to keep faith in Jay Will, you can't let a player of his calibre get away. If they decide to go with Crawford they are going to greatly regret it. They either have to move Crawford to sg, bench him or trade him. Crawford isn't going to have anything on Williams in a year or two.

Speaking of Curry, he's been having some fine games lately. I'm too pessimistic a Bulls fan to agree that he'll reach the same level as Shaq in terms of dominance and ability, but I believe he could be a great centre in the future - probably never the top centre in the league, but he'll always be mentioned as one of the best - just as we used to rattle off a shortlist of the best centres back in the 90s with the same old names (Hakeem, Ewing, Mourning, Mutombo, Shaq, Robinson) without placing them in order.

i dont know andrew
the way he played agaisnt shaq wen they beat lakers
he looked very good!
hes only 20 years old remember, which was the age shaq came in, so maybe if Curry starts to put up huge numbers next year(which i think he will be a 18/15 and 3 blocks guy next year i hope) he could be very good IMO

well i spose we will see

clinton: maybe you're seeing something that myself and bulls reporters aren't seeing- the bulls do not run the triangle a hell more then 10-15% of the time. this is not a matter of opinion, it is a fact.

williams was brought in to be team's starting PG. but i think crawford has shown he can be just as good as williams. think about it:

*they are the same age and both are shoot first pg's. but crawford has the edge in experience being in the nba several years
*when given starters minutes, his stats are better then williams' stats. also the team has been more successful when he's in the starting five
*standing at 6'5, crawford has the potential to be a better defender and cause mismatches for opposing pg's.

williams is a great talent, has the pedigree, etc. and i want him to succeed in the league. i just think crawford is in a bad situation and will continue to be as long as he and williams are on the same team.

as for curry, he seems to have gotten his act together. and since the league is lacking true/talented centers (esp. in the east), his future is bright

i dont know andrew
the way he played agaisnt shaq wen they beat lakers
he looked very good!
hes only 20 years old remember, which was the age shaq came in, so maybe if Curry starts to put up huge numbers next year(which i think he will be a 18/15 and 3 blocks guy next year i hope) he could be very good IMO

well i spose we will see

I'd like to see that too, I am a Bulls fan after all. Unfortunately, I'm a little too pessimistic to hope for that until I see him do it consistently. I like the way he's been playing of late, but next year he's going to have to do it from start to finish (as Shaq does) before he can be touted as a dominant centre - at least IMHO.

clinton: maybe you're seeing something that myself and bulls reporters aren't seeing- the bulls do not run the triangle a hell more then 10-15% of the time. this is not a matter of opinion, it is a fact.

So do you sit there and count everytime they run the triangle, then divide it by the number of possesions they had etc to get that number. 10 or 15%? How can you say a team only runs it 10-15% of the time. Where's your proof??

williams was brought in to be team's starting PG. but i think crawford has shown he can be just as good as williams.

Williams is in his first year. Crawford was playing like shit in his rookie season too. He has only started to have consistent games this season. Like I said give Jay Will a year or two and he will have it all over Crawford.

*they are the same age and both are shoot first pg's. but crawford has the edge in experience being in the nba several years
*when given starters minutes, his stats are better then williams' stats. also the team has been more successful when he's in the starting five

Both those points are only valid at the present. If we are talking about the best option for the Bulls future (which I think we are) than Williams is the way to go. He won't have these problems in a year or two.

i must admit iam not a fan highschool players jumping to the nba and last year was a big critic of eddy curry(as well as d-miles and kwame brown). but as of late, as andrew pointed out eddy's been having some big games for the bulls and could prove to be a real asset.

the way he played agaisnt shaq wen they beat lakers
he looked very good!
hes only 20 years old remember, which was the age shaq came in, so maybe if Curry starts to put up huge numbers next year(which i think he will be a 18/15 and 3 blocks guy next year i hope) he could be very good IMO

well i spose we will see

i think he can put up numbers like this, he's proved it the since the alllstar break. but can he do it consistently that will be the question.

I read an article in PBT that suggested a few trade scenarios for Eddy Curry. With his current performance and Krause's departure, I would hope that that talk is dismissed for the mean time. As mp3 pointed out though, Curry will have to produce those numbers consistently. Remember Kwame's first few games of this season? A flash in the pan, at least thus far.

On Jay Williams: I've been a bit disappointed with him (like that really matters to anyone ), especially after all the hype. In all fairness, he's either been playing in an offense that he is not suited to play in, been playing injured or simply not getting enough playing time to post meaningful numbers.

I don't think we should give up on him yet, but something needs to be done about the PG situation. It's been said that neither Crawford or Williams are suited to play alongside each other regularly with one at SG, but the Suns did it back in 1996/97 with Jason Kidd and Kevin Johnson - neither of whom are suited to the two guard spot. With Crawford and Williams sharing ballhandling duties in the backcourt, Jalen Rose is free to play his game at SF, doubling as the SG since he also spends time there.

See who can play better out of Chandler and Marshall on a regular basis (my vote goes to Marshall) and team him up with Eddy Curry as the Bulls' other post player, and in theory, you have a starting five that works. When put into practice, I doubt it would work consistently, since Crawford and Williams both want to be the PG, and cannot matchup effectively against opposing shooting guards.

So throw that theory out, and let the two battle it out for the starting job. Chances are one of them will be gone next season, if not during the offseason then before the trade deadline, unless Cartwright can find a solution that works out for everyone.

didnt jamal Crawford and coach Cartwright have a big bust up mid season? also id like to see more of macus fizer in the line up next year, untill the injury he was a top candidate for M.I.P or sixth man award

clinton: perhaps you don't know what the triangle offense is. and you wanted proof showing they don't run it much anymore? here's an excerpt from an article by Bull's beat writer, K.C Johnson from the chicago tribune. it should cover both bases:

K.C, could you please explain (if possible) a simple way for a fan to tell whether or not the Bulls are using the triangle on a particular possession? --Brad Wakeman, Lewisburg, Penn.

K.C.- Look closely because they're not using it much anymore. It's not like I'm Tex Winter, but it's simple. A pass goes into the post--usually the high block --with a player on one wing and another player in the corner. Those three players form the triangle. There is a player on the point (top of the key) and a player on the weak side, standing in the corner. When the pass goes into the post, the other two players in the triangle cut off the ball--typically the player closest to the corner cuts baseline and replaces the guy on the weak side, who moves to the wing--creating movement and spacing and allowing the post player to either shoot or look weak side to start the action over again.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/askthewriter/cs-030228askckjohnson,1,6558466.story?coll=cs%2Dbulls%2Dask%2Dheadlines
there's the link to see the entire page.

later on that page...

I read somewhere John Gruden talking about how you never draft a player to fit your scheme, rather you adjust your scheme to fit the players you draft. Bear with me; this is a basketball question. since Gruden just won the Super Bowl, I think he knows what he's talking about. While the Bears and Hawks continually cling to an outdated system--their recent success tells you everything you need to know about them--I think it's the height of arrogance that the Bulls stubbornly do the same thing. This is the NBA. It's a players league. Coaches and GMs should best utilize the talent they have, not force them to play some way they're not comfortable playing. Do you agree with this? --Andrew Martin, Chicago

K.C.-Not at all because for the final time this season, people: The Bulls are rarely using the triangle. They are running the set roughly 10 to 20 percent of the time



i apologize, i stand corrected, 10-20% of the time they run the triangle.

Williams is in his first year. Crawford was playing like shit in his rookie season too. He has only started to have consistent games this season. Like I said give Jay Will a year or two and he will have it all over Crawford.

but crawford didn't get starter's minutes in his rookie year, unlike jay-will. if pink floyd gave craword the same oppurtunity as cartwright (or Krause?) has with williams, crawford's development would further along then it is now. and wasn't jay-will supposed to be a definite impact player this year? so why the do we have to wait on him to develop? i'm sure it is the Bulls' goal to make the playoffs next year. it would be pretty difficult accomplishing that while waiting for the starting pg is to come around

All I'm saying is that giving up on Jay Williams will come back to haunt them. He is going to be one of the great point guards in this league. Better than Crawford could ever dream of being.

another nice game by crawford against the pacers:

career high 33pts on 10 for 20 shooting
10 of 11 ft's
8 assists to only 1 TO

and this isn't a fluke performance. he's put together some solid stats since taking over the starting PG spot

trade jay williams in the offseason! yeh, he may come back to haunt the bulls, but if trading him will land a SF who is great on defense and can shoot from the perimeter (the team's greatest need), i'll surely take the gamble.

Just a possibility I thought of, Battier and Jason Williams for a package involving Jay Williams? Jason has been looking really solid, but I'm not sure if he'll ever shake his tag... so West might look to offload him when he can. He could play off the bench for the Bulls.