iverson or kobe

usually when you ask people who the best guard in the nba is they answer kobe or tmac, it really amazes me how overlooked iverson is in general. generally i have a rule when judging great players from really great players and thats that really great players always have 3 things: a championship, a reg season mvp, a finals mvp. in this case, both iverson and kobe have one of each, but neither has all three, so i find it safe to compare them on talent alone.

the knock against iverson is his low field goal percentage, the knock against kobe is his decision making.

first i believe if kobe had never played with shaq he would not be considered a superstar today, buts thats hypothetical and moot, so that aside personally i prefer iverson. and no this is not based on the game that was played today, this is based on everything. a lot of people will say anyone can score 30 per taking 20+ shots a game, and thats baloney. not anyone can create for themselves enough to create that many shots. yes, sometimes iverson forces, but usually he is able to get what he wants, when he wants. and back to our comparison, lets be honest, its not like kobe doesnt shoot that many per either. which brings us to the fg%, last year, kobes first without shaq, he shot 433, iverson shot 424. iverson and kobes ability to get to the free throw line is probably around equal, though iverson drives a little more and deeper so he gets there a little more.

iverson averaged 30 points and 8 assists a game last year, 8 assists. if his name were kobe people would be crying hallelulah god bless the second coming of jesus! people praise kobe's defense, but i dont find it that inspiring. it is inconsistent, and based on a select few games, even plays. i do not think it is a factor here.

honestly, i have no clear easy in a nutshell answer of why i would pick iverson over kobe (which is why i made this topic so i can see others feedback), but neither do i have a reason to pick kobe over iverson, so it falls to preference, and i prefer iverson.

anyway, if i were building a franchise today, i really wouldnt be in a rush to pick either, but if i had to pick one, i'd pick iverson. i do think kobe is a great player, but a little overrated in my book. obviously the majority of you will pick kobe, and i understand why, but i just thought it'd make for an interesting topic. i kind of prefer tmac as a player to either, but he hasnt really done anything, so i have nothing to back him with.

Last edited by magius on Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Allen Iverson is a top 5 player in the league, so is Kobe Bryant.

With that said, I think Kobe is better but I'd take Allen over Kobe. Makes sense?

Kobe cause he's taller.

What really makes Iverson look worse than Bryant is his size. But what if Iverson was 6'6" or soemthing? Would he be the same player? Like Shaq; whose size is his strength, Iverson has speed and quickness on his side. Sometimes, I wonder whether Iveson would be more deadly at 6'6" tall or would he be worse off. After all he is scorign 30 ppg at only 6 feet tall (or shorter). What would he do at 6'6" then... provided he still had that killer speed...

I see where people are going at when they say Kobe is overrated but I don't think that. Sometimes the hype gets to fans, me included but I do think that Kobe is every bit of what is said.. except last season when they said he'd lead the team as a mature leader.

Both players have their pros and cons but I would take Kobe over Iverson right now. I believe only 2-3 years seperates them in age right? But I do believe Iverson is in his prime but Kobe is about to enter it. Thats why if I had to build a franchise, I'd start it around Bryant.

But I'm not taking anything away from AI. Cause Iverson is overlooked a bit actually IMO and if you take a look at his career averages, they are quite amazing for someone of his stature. Props to both.

id take Iverson over Kobe any day for 2 reasons:

1. Iverson has matured over the past couple of years, hes the better leader, team captain and team player and still able to score 40-50 if its really needed.

2. im biased.

I'd take Kobe today simply because he's shooting a high FG%, has a better shot selection and is getting teammates involved. Tonight despite shooting 7-27, it was a quite 27 shots, and he didnt dominate the ball either.

Iverson though, is the best at the PG position.

Iverson Has Led His Team To The Playoffs



with just ragtags like eric snow and theo ratliif
THEY WENT TO THE FINALS.


kobe has yet to do that without the big fella


Period, iverson has bragging rights. leading his team to victories all on his shoulders and achieving winning seaons clearly prove that ivey is ahead, period
hope i don't sound braggish

Shaq's yet to do anything without Kobe, what is your point?

I agree with Riot, Drama & magius And Balla69, that team that went to the Finals was made for Iverson. They had all the right parts.

Shaq's yet to do anything without Kobe, what is your point?

This isn't even about Shaq-Kobe. He has a point: Iverson has reached the Finals with an average NBA team, no superstar on his side. Kobe hasn't.

that team that went to the Finals was made for Iverson. They had all the right parts.

But they were still expecting huge things from Iverson and he delivered, it doesn't matter whether they made some roster moves that made Iverson's situation a little easier.

I'd pick Iverson, he's more of a leader and his team actually wins when he plays selfish.
Not a factor for me is the MVP trophy AI has. I'm a huge Kobe hater but I can't believe he didn't get it back in 2002-03, he had around 30, 7 and 6 man..

That's true. When you remember how he played that year...it was amazing.

You also have to remember that when Iverson lead that team to the finals, the East was very weak. No stand-outs in the East at that time. All the good teams were out West.

Yeah, that's why the Lakers went 15-1 in the playoffs

But I have to admit that in that year, AI won MVP. Kobe hasn't won one yet. But that Philly team was alright wasn't it? If memory serves, many individual awards were won by that team?

I agree that it mostly comes down to personal preference, because you're talking about two of the best players in the league, both of whom should still have plenty of years in front of them. The common denominator is that neither have achieved success by themselves, though Iverson has made the Finals as the only real star on the Sixers and Kobe was hardly a bit player on the Lakers threepeat a few seasons back.

Strange as it may sound, I kind of lean towards AI for that reason. He already knows how to win as The Man, while Kobe is still really finding out how to play that role fulltime, with a lesser team and without a dominant centre. And while it would be foolish of me to sit here and claim to know what each player is thinking, the way they both play the game gives the impression of different motives.

When I watch AI, I get the impression of a warrior who wants to win. Winning also seems important to Kobe, but I get the impression he's also greatly motivated to proving his individual worth, asserting himself as the greatest in the game. That needn't necessarily be a bad thing but I believe the way Kobe goes about it goes against the team goals and the "greater good".

For now, I'd take Iverson but don't get me wrong' by this time next year, I could very well have changed my tune.

You also have to remember that when Iverson lead that team to the finals, the East was very weak. No stand-outs in the East at that time. All the good teams were out West.

The Bucks, Raptors, Sixers and Heat were all pretty good in the East that year. And even so, if the entire Eastern Conference was weak it's still an even playing field, so the Sixers reaching the Finals was hardly a small feat.

To add onto what Andrew said, the Bucks and the Raptors both took Philly to 7 game series.

I dont like kobe.

I dont like kobe.

EE?
why did you said that?
You must choose,not oh i don`t like kobe.

Yeah, that's why the Lakers went 15-1 in the playoffs

The only thing that proves is how good the Lakers were..........

The Bucks, Raptors, Sixers and Heat were all pretty good in the East that year. And even so, if the entire Eastern Conference was weak it's still an even playing field, so the Sixers reaching the Finals was hardly a small feat.

I was just saying that Shaq ans Kobe had harder teams to go up against than AI. I'm not trying to make Iverson's accomplishment smaller.

The West may have had better teams, but by saying the East was weak you're (indirectly perhaps) suggesting that the quality of opponents was the reason for the Sixers making the Finals moreso than Iverson's play. And as I said, all Eastern teams being equal (or at least the top ones), regardless of whether they're as good as their Western counterparts or not, for one team to advance past the rest is still a great effort.

I agree that it mostly comes down to personal preference, because you're talking about two of the best players in the league, both of whom should still have plenty of years in front of them. The common denominator is that neither have achieved success by themselves, though Iverson has made the Finals as the only real star on the Sixers and Kobe was hardly a bit player on the Lakers threepeat a few seasons back.

Strange as it may sound, I kind of lean towards AI for that reason. He already knows how to win as The Man, while Kobe is still really finding out how to play that role fulltime, with a lesser team and without a dominant centre. And while it would be foolish of me to sit here and claim to know what each player is thinking, the way they both play the game gives the impression of different motives.

When I watch AI, I get the impression of a warrior who wants to win. Winning also seems important to Kobe, but I get the impression he's also greatly motivated to proving his individual worth, asserting himself as the greatest in the game. That needn't necessarily be a bad thing but I believe the way Kobe goes about it goes against the team goals and the "greater good".

You completely took the words out of my mouth

Those words weren't even on your mind.

Shaq's yet to do anything without Kobe, what is your point?

This isn't even about Shaq-Kobe. He has a point: Iverson has reached the Finals with an average NBA team, no superstar on his side. Kobe hasn't..

That average NBA team was custom built around Iverson for seasons previous to that. I don't think it's even remotely fair to say "Well Iverson can win on his own so he's better" at this point because Kobe hasn't really had the chance to develop on his own with a set of teammates that are suited to him specifically.

It took Iverson 3 years before he even made the play-offs, Kobe's had what, 1 season? It's not as if Iverson had bad teammates either, in his rookie year he was surrounded with Derrick Coleman, Clarence Weatherspoon and Jerry Stackhouse.

I was just saying that Shaq ans Kobe had harder teams to go up against than AI. I'm not trying to make Iverson's accomplishment smaller.

Like Andrew & Sit said, there were some Eastern teams that had talent in that year. They played Indiana (Miller, a young O'Neal), Raptors (with an awesome Vince Carter, Antonio Davis) and the Bucks (Cassel, Robinson and Allen). Even though the Lakers had to play against harder teams in the West, they still swept all of them, but Philly won one game against them.

Shaq's yet to do anything without Kobe, what is your point?

This isn't even about Shaq-Kobe. He has a point: Iverson has reached the Finals with an average NBA team, no superstar on his side. Kobe hasn't..

That average NBA team was custom built around Iverson for seasons previous to that. I don't think it's even remotely fair to say "Well Iverson can win on his own so he's better" at this point because Kobe hasn't really had the chance to develop on his own with a set of teammates that are suited to him specifically.

It took Iverson 3 years before he even made the play-offs, Kobe's had what, 1 season? It's not as if Iverson had bad teammates either, in his rookie year he was surrounded with Derrick Coleman, Clarence Weatherspoon and Jerry Stackhouse.

my original post Quote:

Period, iverson has bragging rights. leading his team to victories all on his shoulders and achieving winning seaons clearly prove that ivey is ahead, period


i emphasized on the words, Period.

kobe can prove us all wrong, your point is taken.
i also acknowledge that kobe has 3 rings
so does shaq
lakers self destructed without shaq
kobe doesn't have much leadership PERIOD
doesn't make his teammates better

assists don't count as making your teammates that much better
run a play, give the pass= assist
Kobe takes over games by himself
shoot shoot and shoot

iverson does that while saying
come on team, i'm gonna do it.
do it with me
leadership

kobe says, i'm going to do it
get out of my way
have you seen his teammates standing around watching him?


case in point?
Kobe LOSING to Ai
the most recent game.
had the shot, instead of passing to the open man
he went, ITS MINE.



iverson had c-spoon, jerry stack, coleman, AND Hughes,
in his rookie year, yeah.

who did kobe have in his rookie year?
van exel in his prime,
eddie jones in his prime,
Vlade divac in his prime
Elden Campbell in his prime

year or so later even with more minutes
kobe didn't do it until Shaq came.

your point?