Put your mouth where you talk is..

[Steve04]

I find it laughable that you Kobe haters are exercising your right to hate to the extent that you are abandoning all pretense of logical reasoning.

I read posts and you say:

1. Kobe's averages are going to go down. What?? He's not Penny Hardaway, this is Kobe Bryant. Are you forgeting last year he played on the Olympic qualifying team? Maybe that's why he didn't play that great this year(Except in the clutch, but that doesn't count because of the way they finished) He's got all summer to work on his game and get in shape. I garuntee he will come into camp and the season better than he was last year. He doesn't have Shaq? Big deal. The smart coaches will let Kobe get his and shut down his teammates. Personally, I think you'll see Kobe sharing the ball more than you give him credit for.

2.Shaq's gone! Shaq's gone! Panic!

There's no reason to panic, The Lakers will make the playoffs. Matter of fact, I say they'll make it to the 2nd round. Yes, I'm going to make a prediction, BEFORE the Lakers even get any inside help.

Oh, and the Heat will have a worse record than the Lakers..

Just kidding.

[Andrew]

I wouldn't class myself as a Kobe hater, though I don't think that disqualifies me from being part of this topic.

I think Kobe's field goal percentage might drop a little as the result of teams being able to pay more attention to him defensively, but his scoring average will rise regardless. I just don't think he's going to explode and average a triple double (I know no one has suggested that, I'm just using a wild example).

The Lakers are certainly still capable of making the playoffs, but the absence of Shaq will hurt them, and I (like many other people) believe that it will prevent them from advancing deep into the playoffs and winning the 2005 championship. But hey, we could be wrong.

[twolvezfanfoever]

1.Naw,his average is gonna rise cuz he's a ball hog
2.Lets hope they make the playoffs for real cuz there is gonna be alot of good teams in the west this year

[Matthew]

I find it laughable that you can't understand logic. The Lakers wont be better without shaq. Kobe might be better individually, and he might be worse. Shaq did take a hell of a lot of pressure of kobe. Teams now can swarm him at will, where as before teams were forced to at least have to consider doubling shaq... theres no other guy on the lakers who requires a doubling, night in, night out.
Can Kobe make his teamates better? Maybe. Has he done it yet? Nope.

Shaq allowed kobe to excell on both ends... your talking like it was a detriment to the lakers. and if they make the second round without shaq, is that good enough? they just went to the finals. if they dont make it to the conference finals at least, its a bad move by the lakers. they broke it up.. for what reason again? money.. and then they sign kobe to the max? ha! good work fuckers.

If the oposing teams decide to concerntrate on his teamates instead, dont expect kobe to pass... if he didnt pass when he was doubled, and had malone, shaq, payton, george and fisher, what makes you think he'll distribute with this new bunch, when he has one on one situations?

I'd love to see kobe get blocked about 4 times when the lakers play the heat, by shaq when he gets into the lane.. just so kobe knows how valuable the big fella is... and id also love to see wade explode into stardum, just so it proves how overhyped kobe was.

If thats hating, suck a dick. its the truth from a fan of the game. and yes im pissed off that shaq was traded.. its disrespect to one of the absolute greats. stupid lakers.

fuck em up shaq baby

[Jackal]

2.Shaq's gone! Shaq's gone! Panic!

There's no reason to panic, The Lakers will make the playoffs. Matter of fact, I say they'll make it to the 2nd round. Yes, I'm going to make a prediction, BEFORE the Lakers even get any inside help.

1) I'm not a hater.

2) I'm pissed off because they went from possible Finals, to just making the second round because Bryant wasn't happy.

Anyways, if you cannot understand logic, it's not my fault. We'll let the season do the talking.

[Matt]

Kobes gonna be like Stackhouse in 2000-2001, the best player on the team, will average about 29ppg, will face constant dbl and tpl teams and will have a low FG%

[Jowe]

sure kobe didn't like shaq or phil.

But i don't think he forced the trade. Shaq said from the 1st preseason game, that he wanted a contract extension, great leader there...

Are you saying the lakers should have gave shaq that 28+million dollare per year contract he wanted? for a 32+year old centre?.. That alone would eat up about 3/4 of the salary cap (if thats the wrong percentage then u know wat i mean )

Phil was always going to leave, because of his health problems he had mid season or last season, i forgot, but yeh, he just had enough.

Personally I think Kobe is mistaken for a ballhog, because he fills out the stat sheet, not through just scoring, but he also distributes the ball and plays the pg role alot of the time. True that means he has the ball in his hands alot of the time. But would you prefer Devean George taking all the shots? Kobe just has all the tools that the team needs.


This wasn't directed directly at your Jackal just to every kobe hater

[Micchy_boy]

2) I'm pissed off because they went from possible Finals, to just making the second round because Bryant wasn't happy.

Anyways, if you cannot understand logic, it's not my fault. We'll let the season do the talking.

1. Kobe is my favorite player!!! and he will or i say he must average a little more. not in scoring but in passing and other aspect of the game. yes opposing team will double or triple team him, letting other players in lakers to beat him. and thats what must lakers GM do, surround kobe with good players.

2. this i agree with you, we don't need to panic but i also agree with Jackal why overhaul the team if only a few minor things to fix. but its everybody fault i guess. mitch, kobe, and shaq.

and yeah lakers will be a playoff team.

[Boyk]

You people are unbeleivable.
Let the the season start first damn!
its still fuckin summer camp!

Lakers arent gonna make the playoffs, Heat will be better blah blah.
its really annoying, this is about the 6th or 7th thread im sure.

Lakers probably wont be as good, buts it not coz of the way kobes plays, or the pressure he will get with no shaq, it'll be coz there centre is 6'8 at best, there pf is really sf no matter how good he was last year.
I cant wait to see Caron Butler in Laker uniform, if hes a paul pierce type player like he was compared to, watching him and kobe will be sweet.
The Lakers will have a better perimeter defense this year for sure, especially if the glove gets his confidence back, Butler is an underrated defender and kobe can be a great defender.

The Heat wont be as good as everyone thinks.
so they have shaq?
big deal, wheres the depth??
They have Shaq,Haslem,R.Butler,Jones,Wade as a possible 5.
Bench???..................................??????............??
Rafer is gone, so who is gonna give relief at the point?Bimbo Coles
this is there bench atm, Malik Allen,Jerome Beasley,Bimbo Coles,Michael Doleac,Matt Freije,Albert Miralles,Samaki Walker,John Wallace,Dorell Wright and Wang Zhizhi............................HAHAAHAAHHAHAAH
wtf is that?
Malik Allen is the best there.
They better make some moves to get deeper or there stuffed, we saw the ex-shaq team suffer from this for the last 2 years.

By the way, whoever said "i cant wait to see Wade explode into stardom, just to see how overhyped kobe was" is really ignorant.
Wade was already exploding into stardom, with or without shaq
and ya try and call yaself a real fan

honestly neither team will do anything drastic this year, i see a possibly 2nd rnd exit for lakers(unless they can find a centre taller than 6'8) and same with Heat(probably finals if they can get some names\depth on that bench)

[GloveGuy]

Are you forgeting last year he played on the Olympic qualifying team? Maybe that's why he didn't play that great this year

No he didn't...

[Steve04]

You're right, he pulled out<--insert joke here.

I never said the Lakers would be better without Shaq, although I think there is the possibility that they could be better than anyone is giving them credit for. And there is the possibility that the Heat could be worse. Wade+Aging Shaq to Weak East is what Kobe+Prime Shaq was to dominant west. Only Wade is not the clutch player Kobe was, although he's getting there.

[Steve04]

You people are unbeleivable.
Let the the season start first damn!
its still summer camp!

Duh, theres nothing to talk about so why not create topics rampant with speculation?

If you don't like the heat then get out the kitchen.

[Steve04]

the usual if not for shaq then kobes average talk

Ofcourse it was so one sided. Have you ever thought that Kobe's play masked the fact that Shaq was declining/out of shape/ and unmotivated?

It's a two way street. They are arguably the best players at their respective positions(not in the game, calm down) so ofcourse they will make each other better. Ofcourse the 2nd round isn't as good as the finals and yes Kobe wouldn't pass the ball, but you know what? He tried passing and his teammates didn't hit a single open shot. Would you keep passing it to your teammates for bricks or would you see if you could make a shot yourself? Ofcourse, you'd pass them to your teammates for bricks because then they'd get the blame.

[Jackal]

Honestly, I've given up on discussing Bryant & O'Neal.

I can't wait for this season to start...there's going to be a lot of proving going on.

Can Bryant lead his own team?

Can T-Mac co-exsist with Yao?

Can Shaq actually still play?

How will Howard & Okafor fare?

So many new looks, so many changes. This has probably been the best offseason in awhile.

[Steve04]

heck, even Jason Kidd might be elsewhere. The Lakers should deal Odom, Grant, and Butler to NJ for Kidd.

[Bill Russell]

Kobe's averages will increase, he'll hog the ball a lot... And I don't see the Lakers higher than the 6th or 7th seed...

[Alcoholic]

After seeing all the ridiculous offseason signings, I'm starting to think that anything can happen. My prediction (hopefully) will be that Kobe can trust his teammates more (George, Walton [he will play, he will definitely play], and the newer players too like butler). I think maybe after enough double and triple teams Kobe will figure out the guy in the corner can actually hit the open shot, and Kobe's not that bad a passer, so hopefully he can change. (I hope).

[Matthew]

Wow alot of replies

Are you saying the lakers should have gave shaq that 28+million dollare per year contract he wanted? for a 32+year old centre?.. That alone would eat up about 3/4 of the salary cap (if thats the wrong percentage then u know wat i mean )

I think Shaq was more disgruntled by the fact that the Lakers came out and said "we are never going to do a sign and trade for kobe, we will do anything to keep him as a laker for life" blah blah blah.. then they say "But we will listen to offers for shaq". after that, shaq demanded a trade. he hasnt asked the heat for an extension so you know its not about the money.

Personally I think Kobe is mistaken for a ballhog, because he fills out the stat sheet, not through just scoring, but he also distributes the ball and plays the pg role alot of the time. True that means he has the ball in his hands alot of the time. But would you prefer Devean George taking all the shots? Kobe just has all the tools that the team needs

If Michael Jordan could defer some of shots to Pippen and Kukoc and know when to not force things, why cant kobe? Kobe is a very good player, but he has alot to learn. He cant just bring the ball into the half court and shoot.. nor when he's doubled can he still force a shot. It's not good basketball and it makes your teamates pissed. I said it before, if he had problems defering to shaq, how will he handle making lamar odom and butler better.. look at how paytons game suffered playing alongside kobe.

1. Kobe is my favorite player!!! and he will or i say he must average a little more. not in scoring but in passing and other aspect of the game. yes opposing team will double or triple team him, letting other players in lakers to beat him. and thats what must lakers GM do, surround kobe with good players.

agreed

You people are unbeleivable.
Let the the season start first damn!
its still fuckin summer camp!

You're a dope. This thread was asking for opinions right now about Kobe. If it's still summer camp, why are you commenting?? Don't contradict yourself

Lakers probably wont be as good, buts it not coz of the way kobes plays, or the pressure he will get with no shaq, it'll be coz there centre is 6'8 at best, there pf is really sf no matter how good he was last year.
I cant wait to see Caron Butler in Laker uniform, if hes a paul pierce type player like he was compared to, watching him and kobe will be sweet.

Even if they get a vlade, its a massive downgrade from shaq. Caron Butler and paul pierce? He got those comparisons in college.. the nba he hasnt been that kind of player. Butler was cleary the odd man out in miami with wade controlling the ball, how will he adapt to kobe controlling the offense? not good.. and even if he is a paul pierce type of player (which he's not), kobe cant share the ball with shaq, an inside player who helps his game, how will he share the ball with somone who does the same as him?

The Heat wont be as good as everyone thinks.
so they have shaq?
big deal, wheres the depth??
They have Shaq,Haslem,R.Butler,Jones,Wade as a possible 5.
Bench???..................................??????............??
Rafer is gone, so who is gonna give relief at the point?Bimbo Coles
this is there bench atm, Malik Allen,Jerome Beasley,Bimbo Coles,Michael Doleac,Matt Freije,Albert Miralles,Samaki Walker,John Wallace,Dorell Wright and Wang Zhizhi............................HAHAAHAAHHAHAAH
wtf is that?
Malik Allen is the best there.
They better make some moves to get deeper or there stuffed, we saw the ex-shaq team suffer from this for the last 2 years.

and you call me ignorant? Shaq in the east, with EJ and Wade and 8 nbdl players is still in a better position than your lakers.

By the way, whoever said "i cant wait to see Wade explode into stardom, just to see how overhyped kobe was" is really ignorant.

Comming from the guy who cries "that bitch is lying, kobe didnt do it!!! i wove u kobe!!!"

Wade was already exploding into stardom, with or without shaq
and ya try and call yaself a real fan

Wade was developing nicely.. but if he has another good year like last year, with shaq, he will be in the finals.. the 2nd best player on a finals team (at his age and hype) will be considered a superstar.. sorta like penny...

honestly neither team will do anything drastic this year, i see a possibly 2nd rnd exit for lakers(unless they can find a centre taller than 6'8) and same with Heat(probably finals if they can get some names\depth on that bench)

"Let the the season start first damn!
its still fuckin summer camp!"

I never said the Lakers would be better without Shaq, although I think there is the possibility that they could be better than anyone is giving them credit for.

People have been ranking them at 3 on their power rankings here.. and i think thats quite generous. Of course theres a possibility that the lakers do well this year... but theres also the possibility that jordan buys the heat, returns, plays small forward, scores 37 ppg, wins 3 more rings over 3 seasons and retires again, to be fired by management.

Wade+Aging Shaq to Weak East is what Kobe+Prime Shaq was to dominant west

Yeah the east sucks so bad right now.. any team from the west playoffs who makes the finals is a sure thing to win... just like last season... oh hold on

If you don't like the heat then get out the kitchen.

lol

My prediction (hopefully) will be that Kobe can trust his teammates more

It's hard to think thats possible.. considering his childish play last season.. but hey if he does, kudos to him. i just dont see it happeneing

[magius]

kobe's just like tmac without shaq. This isnt an insult. An insult would be comparing kobe to mj, thats like comparing sewage water to tequila. Oh, and the phrase is "put your money where your mouth is", or at least thats what i think you meant?

Let me rephrase what i've been saying: the chances of kobe averaging LESS is higher than the chances of kobe averaging some of the numbers you guys pulled out of your asses. I for one think his scoring average will stay around the same (maybe +1?), and his assist/rebound will stay the same. If he averages 30 ppgs his fg% will dip.

[Jackal]

kobe's just like tmac without shaq.

No one listens to me when I say it, I told Yohance this a few hours ago on MSN, check it with him.

Kobe fans think Kobe will be like Mike.

Real folks know Kobe will be like T-Mac...

[GordonBulls]

*cough* *cough* HA HA HA HAAAAATERS


Kobe will be better than Mike, just give him this year, or next, u wait and see, he is the real deal.

[magius]

*sigh* thats what you get when you smoke pot -- You start coughing and your brain dies!

when kobe is as talented as mj's right foot humans will become asexual and fuck themselves as a means of reproduction

[Jackal]

when kobe is as talented as mj's right foot humans will become asexual and fuck themselves as a means of reproduction

Isn't that called masturbation?

Alot of guys here already do that...

[Matt]

haha, Kobe aint nothing compared to MJ. Lets see him average 35ppg, lets see him get 1 ring w/o Shaq

[hmm]

..