THE BULLS ARE THE MOST DISAPPOINTING TEAM IN THE LEAGUE

by **reapershole** on Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:47 am

I have been a Chicago Bulls fan since I was five years old and my Uncle Oz took me to a game. That was 1982, two years before Michael Jordan made it worth our while. When I was younger I took what we got for granted. Now, still living in the Chicago area, I am 26 years old and I have to say this. No more excuses like "we just lost Michael Jordan" or "we're so young, it takes time" or anything else. When this team started the year off no one, I MEAN NO ONE INCLUDING NBA TEAM ANALYSTS, thought that this team would not make the playoffs. I am going to say this loud and say it clear, WE SUCK. Our defense SUCKS, our offense SUCKS, our team spirit SUCKS, and yes even our coach SUCKS.

Let's review...

Tyson Chandler has all of the abilities of a 7 foot thin and savy defensive all-star and all of the grit of a four year old child with prostate cancer and no shins. When he does play he is an opponent to be feared, but he never plays so who cares.

Eddy Curry cound indeed yet become the second coming of Shaq, that is if the only Shaq we saw was one who only plays the first half of any given game and alows himself to be blocked, consistently, by gaurds. I am not joking here either, he got blocked by gaurds... GAURDS. and they weren't even good gaurds... they were washington wizards gaurds...

anyways...

Jamal Crawford has the talent to become a very good scorer in the NBA so long as he learns to TAKE IT TO THE RACK. of course he doesn't, oh no, he rather take a sideways fade-away unsquared too-early-released jumper and makes the team look desperate (and he takes these shots with 15 and 20 point leads - that is before the team blows those leads in the third quarter).

Kendal Gill is a solid basketball player and so is Scottie Pippen, Antonio Davis, Junk Yard Dog, and Kirk Hinrik is becoming a player who belongs on that list.

Think I forgot a few, well alright then Marcus Fizer and JYD are basically carbon copies of one another so I forget about Marcus. JYD is Marcus with heart. He takes it in strong and intelligent. Marcus just tosses it up. JYD rebounds with heart and is a blue collar player, Macrus used to be... but then got hurt and now just won't. It's not that he can't, he won't.

I will not discuss Eddie Robinson. I'm just too pissed off.

Take into consideration the talent Chicago has had and overlooked before we talk about coaching...

Elton Brand
Brad Miller
Ron Artest (damnit damnit damnit damnit)
Donyell Marshall
Jalen Rose
Trenton Hassel
and more, others have found success outside Chicago as well.

If this keeps up we will become the next L.A. Clippers of the NBA - AND NO ONE WANTS THAT.

I mentioned coaching, so here goes. I love Scott Skiles. I do. I think he is a great NBA coach for a gaurd oriented team. We are not that team. Bill Cartwright was not a good choice either and Tim Floyd is good enough so long as it is an already made team and he does not have to develop players. No, we need someone progressive with the talent to reach these kids and, honestly, those coaches have jobs. Long shots who might pan out are Mike Fratello, Bill Russell (why not with so many old guys coaching all of the sudden), Charles Barkley (yes, i think Sir Charles could be a fanominal coach if he were interested in doing more than beind an analyst one day a week) and, of course, Patrick Ewing.

In fact, I think Ewing would be the best choice to get right down to the guts of it. He could better understand what is wrong with Curry and Chandler and address the issue instead of insult them in news conferences thinking that will inspire them. Ewing has also had to rely on many different gaurds and has worked with some of the best. He could set up Chicago from the inside block out instead of Skiles outside in - which left the post presence stagnant and just developed our already best developed positions.

Some argue that the bike wreck of Jay Williams screwed the entire franchise as they were making a deal with Denver that would land them the third pick before the accident happened. That would have brought us Carmello Anthony to put next to the big kids and Pippen and Crawford in the back court. Well, screw it, it didn't happen so GET OVER IT AND DEAL WITH WHAT IS WRONG RIGHT NOW.

To get right down to it, and I will protest that I may be the largest Bulls fan around before I say this - we may need to just gut the whole damned team. No one plays well together, we've been rebuilding for 6 years, Tyson and Eddy never play well together on the court (if it ever even happens) and on and on. Chicago Bulls have problems and they are too many to really list. Major changes need to be had. Yes they have a lot of learning to do, yes they're young, and yes we lost the greatest player in history. Now, look at Memphis and tell me we have any excuses to not be at spot four or five in the east. Go ahead, do it. I bet you anything you can't justify it. It's alright though, no one can.

by **Full Surface** on Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:48 am

The Bulls were screwed out of that trade with the Raptors :oops:

by **air gordon** on Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:18 am

great post hole...

curry is the biggest enigma on the team. last season post all star break, he is scoring easily on shaq, wallace, etc.. now he's finishing like kwame brown. maybe the guy needs a change of scenery. and a set of cajones

i think fizer has to be one of the biggest disappointments as well. last year- after he played his way out of cartwright's doghouse, he was looking like a top candidate for sixth man of the year before the injury happened. i'm not sure if this guy is not fully recovered or what, but i know if fizer is playing well fans would quickly forget the loss of marshall and outsiders wouldn't be talking how the bulls got shammed in the raptors trade

as far as the coaching goes, i don't know if i can agree with you there. i think skiles tries to run the offense from inside out: in the games you can see that the bulls try to establish curry down low. or coming out of timeouts, you see a lot plays run for him. its works early then curry's conditioning takes into effect. as the game goes along curry gets pushed further and further away from the block. as far as the 'reaching' point- i think skiles is doing a good job. curry may not be reachable but at least skiles is pushing him to get in shape and crawford has responded more positively then negative.

the thing i'm worried about with skiles is that he may fall into the trap that floyd and cartwright fell into- try and get wins at all costs by playing the vets instead of developing curry, chandler, crawford.

i think floyd can develop and teach young players. people remember his failures in chicago but forget about his success at iowa state

to go along with the 6 years of rebuilding- the thing the frustrates me the most is that players like anthony, james, amare are proving you can come into the nba without virtually any college experience and still succeed.

like it or not, the bulls have become the clippers.

the bulls pay a visit to atlanta tonite. the rope is ready

by **Alex Italo** on Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:13 am

I'm a Bulls fan since 1990 when I first watched a NBA game on TV.
Nowadays just a few games are broadcasted in Brazil (and those games are mostly of really good teams or really overhyped players

) and I never watch a Bulls game anymore.

The only analysis I'm able to make is based on box scores or game recaps, so I want to ask:
- Jamal Crawford seems to be inconsistent, alternating average efforts, a few good games and brick launching sessions... Do you believe that he'll develop to be a reliable "go-to guy" in this team?
- Eddy Curry is a center often compared to Shaq. But he never grabs a lot of rebounds... Does he positionate badly under the hoop? Doesn't he have interest in grabing rebounds?

I don't know if the guy is really good, but lately Kirk Hinrich is posting some solid numbers and I have to admit that I'm a little surprised. I was expecting less than Jay Williams got last year.

The deals the Bulls made over the years are also a bit frustrating and the fans will have to pay for that for a few more years, I think.
Brand was a solid and proven frontcourt player and 3 years later Chandler and Curry aren't!

(I'm also a little frustrated because during the "rebuilding project" I bought two jerseys of players that were dealt few months later: Brand & Rose...

)

by **Gripni** on Thu Jan 22, 2004 9:55 am

I don't get why everyone thought Chicago was going to be so good this year. They don't have as much talent as people think they do. But the most disappointing team in the NBA is ORLANDO DUH

by **Wall St. Peon** on Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:07 am

I don't get why everyone thought Chicago was going to be so good this year. They don't have as much talent as people think they do. But the most disappointing team in the NBA is ORLANDO DUH

Actually, the Bulls have a ton of talent that's stagnating at the moment:

Curry, Chandler, and Crawford are extremely talented and had - still do, really - loads of potential. Also, Scottie Pippen returned to the Bulls, and he had a great season last year at the point in Portland, and then you toss in Jalen Rose and Donyell Marshall, not to mention Fizer and Eddie Robinson. While none of these guys are great, there's a ton of talent right there, especially in the 3 C's....

by **Old School Fool** on Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:18 pm

reapershole reminds me of Paul_Pierce_The_Truth right now :shock:

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:37 pm

I don't think I'm alone in saying this whole fascination with "potential" that so many analysts and GMs have is getting out of hand. The slightest flash of brilliance is a ticket to the NBA. Choosing the potential star over the proven talent has become fashionable; and it shouldn't be.

Krause has a lot to answer for. Yes, he assembled six championship teams. But he was pretty reluctant to let the last one stay intact. But the way he disassembled that team was just terrible. As Limp mentioned in the other thread, the whole idea was to avoid becoming the Celtics of the post-Bird era. But the Bulls have gone that way anyway. Krause's methods of dealing with other teams and with players left him with a reputation that prevented big free agent signings. An opportunity to be "The Man" plus Millions of Dollars normally equals a major acquisition in the world of professional sport. But in the offseason of 2000, three stars snubbed the Windy City.

If this keeps up we will become the next L.A. Clippers of the NBA - AND NO ONE WANTS THAT.

I'd say the Bulls are pretty close to being that right now - a revolving door when it comes to talent. The plan changes every year. There's either no time given to the development of a team (Elton Brand's Bulls) or too much time spent waiting for development (the Twin Toddlers). What might have worked has been scrapped too quickly, and what isn't working is being given too many chances.

The lesson, of course, is to be patient but not too patient. Give one rebuilding plan a chance before scrapping it, and abandon another if it's clearly not working.

To get right down to it, and I will protest that I may be the largest Bulls fan around before I say this - we may need to just gut the whole damned team.

I'm pretty much in agreement here. Even though I don't like the idea of changing the plan all the time, it's clear that Krause's mistakes and gambles need to be taken care of, and the rebuilding effort needs to start again from scratch. I'm pretty sure most of us would prefer to see the Bulls start over and rebuild properly, rather than underachieving.

by **air gordon** on Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:06 pm

or too much time spent waiting for development (the Twin Toddlers)...and what isn't working is being given too many chances.

how many chances have chandler, curry, & crawford gotten since being drafted? all 3 nothing at most under floyd. chandler was starting in cartwright's first full year as the coach. only up until this year have crawford and curry received starting minutes in "meaningful" games.

the bulls fans and the media's overestimation of the 3 C's being ready to contribute and this being the 6th year of rebuilding has compounded the frustration. don't let this cloud your judgement

I'm pretty sure most of us would prefer to see the Bulls start over and rebuild properly, rather than underachieving.

i for one don't want anymore starting over. enough. please. i'd much rather have curry and crawford put it together, chandler return and stay healthy, and the team to get back on track to the playoffs

paxson has some serious thinking to do. there's not one definitive move he can make to fix this mess. the answer's not in the draft and no big name FA will come to chicago right now. let me know how pax can rebuild 'properly' without including the word patience. or rebuilding properly will do for now

moves can be made without trading chandler or curry. IMO it's premature to give up on developing one, maybe two of them.

getting wallace is unlikely, but the door is still open for Cuban to trade antawn jamison for antonio davis and change.

thats a start. if he deals crawford, he sure as hell better get a scorer back in return.

once atlanta gets an actual owner, rahim can be had. for what? i have no clue. maybe curry or chandler and a contract

fizer should not be resigned and erob should start looking for housing in charlotte

meh

The lesson, of course, is to be patient but not too patient. Give one rebuilding plan a chance before scrapping it, and abandon another if it's clearly not working.

to me the lesson is not to leave krause in charge of a rebuilding franchise.

by **Stevan** on Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:00 pm

Losing to the Wizards and Hawks in consecutive games = pathetic.

Apparently Curry is thinking of what it would be like to play for a team away from his home town. The media is riding him right now pretty badly.

I guess inner turmoil is nothing new within the Bulls. The championship runs were full of disputes, trade demands, certain guys not performing and other guys trying to do too much and so on. But all the problems were masked by winning because the ball club could put it together on the floor when it mattered most.

The Antawn Jamison idea as presented by Limp is intriguing, it would be a good start, but probably not enough.

Bulls :evil:

by **Nick** on Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:42 pm

You know what the bulls need? Bo Outlaw and/or Scott Williams on the team. Then Curry and Chandler might get somewhere, faster. (Y)

by **Nel** on Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:57 pm

It's disappointing for bulls fans like me. But if you look closely almost every team in the east is struggling(except indiana and detroit) right now. This gives us a liitle bit of hope. IMO the bulls got busted on the rose trade in which they should have gotten a scorer in return. Plus the fact that chandler is always injured and inconsistency of crawford. Personally i think they should let go of eddy curry. This guy has a bad work ethic(look at his size). The deal on antawn jamison would be good but i think dallas isn't stupid enough to get davis in return who averages 4ppg. If there's any consolation Orlando is still the worst team in the nba. :wink:

by **fgrep15** on Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:35 am

Sacramento Kings center Brad Miller said he recently had a dream about being back with the Bulls, and it wasn't a pleasant experience.

"That was the nightmare I had the other night, that I got traded back to Chicago,'' Miller told The Sporting News. "I could not sleep at all. I was sweating.

"Thank goodness I woke up.''

by **reapershole** on Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:12 am

refuze wrote:The Bulls were screwed out of that trade with the Raptors

it's all boils down to this...

if you want to blame a trade, blame the elton brand trade. rose was a bad fit for the chicago bulls. he wasn't a blue collar player, he didn't dive for it every night, and he often played like he was working for the stats and not the team. many, many times i saw rose shoot when he should have been passing. had he played basketball the right way, he's still be in chicago and crawford would still be developing instead of the focus of the offense. if we trade anyone, i'd trade crawford and possibly eddie robinson. i suppose david as well, but i'm not sure there.

here is where the problem lies, what is going on with chandler? if we knew what was going on with chandler we could guage what to do with curry. if we knew for sure chandler was going to return and fill up that painted area as he has been known to do so well, then trade curry's saggy ass anywhere for someone who can play next to chandler. then send davis and just about anything else dallas wants for either walker or jamison. once we have that done, move crawford out for a real shoot. let's stop screwing around on crawford who cannot be defined as shoot or point. screw him.

we need an honest to god shoot gaurd because we've found an honest to god point gaurd. let's send crawford and fizer anywhere for a shoot gaurd. just a defensive shoot that can hit a three. let's call miami and see if they're interested! riley is still there gm and he has always loved crawford the way west loved mike miller. let's give him the shot of getting crawford and bring eddie jones back to his home town. eddy curry hates the media, jones would love it.

chandler
JYD (or who-ever from trade to play next to chandler)
walker/jamison
jones
hinrich

it's not the best line-up in the history of the nba but if we got jamison and jones and chandler stayed healthy, well, it would work.

i love eddy curry but i'm sick of it. i love crawford, but i'm even more sick of his totally inconsistency from everywhere (defense, offense, ability to eat cheese snacks, walking and chewing gum...).

maybe i'm nuts, but something's gotta give ya know?

oh, and i'm not who-ever one of you thinks i am. i'm just an nba live fan who lives in the chicago area and is losing his ability to maintain hope in the franchise he's loved so long...
http://www.reapershole.net

by **Gee_Dupe11** on Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:36 am

on ESPN Insider it says that everyone on the bulls is on the Block even Tyson and Eddy (doesn't even matter witch Eddy im talking about)so i expecting Portland pulling a Trade with Bulls Portland getting Rasheed and Dale Davis out of there but it can be a 3 team trade with Portland Bulls and Knicks

i thinkng the Bulls will end up with Keith Van Horn and Woods or Outlaw
Portland ends up with Tyson and Crawford and frank williams
Knicks ends up with Sheed and thats all

by **air gordon** on Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:22 am

Gee_Dupe11 wrote: so i expecting Portland pulling a Trade with Bulls Portland getting Rasheed and Dale Davis out of there but it can be a 3 team trade with Portland Bulls and Knicks

i thinkng the Bulls will end up with Keith Van Horn and Woods or Outlaw
Portland ends up with Tyson and Crawford and frank williams
Knicks ends up with Sheed and thats all

tyson & crawford for kvh and whatever athlete... is krause back in charge here?

The deal on antawn jamison would be good but i think dallas isn't stupid enough to get davis in return who averages 4ppg

davis would not be brought in for his offense :roll:

Bo Outlaw and/or Scott Williams on the team. Then Curry and Chandler might get somewhere, faster

i think the bulls have that in jyd and davis already

by **Stevan** on Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:52 pm

I say "hell no" to Keith Van Horn and also to Antoine Walker. Otherwise I agree with much of what Reapershole is saying. We have a PG in Hinrich. We need a real SG, and to keep one of the young guys and focus on raising just one child.

I'm thinking the NBA should take note from the Chinese, and implement a "one child per team" policy.

by **fgrep15** on Fri Jan 23, 2004 1:15 pm

The deal on antawn jamison would be good but i think dallas isn't stupid enoughto get davis in return who averages 4ppg

davis would not be brought in for his offense

I know eh, Davis is never brought for offense, its all about his toughness and low post presence.

I, though not a Bulls fan would also not want to see Walker, he just wouldn't work, Jamison would be good. Its also true that a true shooting guard is needed, and also a guy to play Center if Curry leaves, Chandler just can't do it, and JYD is too small. After that they need a good 3 and they are set, Dupree actually isn't bad, just no shot from outside and mid-range is unreliable

Im happy to see that Bulls fans like the Junk Yard Dog, but who doesn't.

Bo Outlaw and/or Scott Williams on the team. Then Curry and Chandler might get somewhere, faster

i think the bulls have that in jyd and davis already

Very true, Scott and Bo are older versions of AD and JYD (Scott and AD about same age and JYD 2 years younger than BO). Scott Williams can hit three's though, if you give him time he's actually a competent three point shooter. He was also asked to become a coach by Phoenix, but he said he doesn't feel the need yet.

by **Jeffx** on Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:06 am

Excellent post, reaper. You come across as a real die-hard Bulls fan(and not one of the bandwagoners). Being in NY, I don't get to see a lot of the Bulls. But it boggles my mind when I read the paper and see this team is 12-30 in the standings. As weak as the East is, how could a team with so much potential be this bad? From reading your posts, it sounds the Bulls biggest problem is immaturity. Maybe this team needs a Pat Riley/Hubie Brown type coach to instill discipline and show these young cats how to win. Look at what Hubie's doing with the Grizzlies. For that team to be 23-18 in the West is amazing.

by **DipSetVC** on Sun Jan 25, 2004 7:44 am

yo fgrep15, you think the Bulls can take us tomorrow?

by **sliccat** on Sun Jan 25, 2004 10:44 am

The answer is never to gut a whole team(unless you're the Wizards). Plain and simple, Chicago has too many individual scorers, and not enough winners. The Rose trade was the best Chicago's had in years. They traded two good offensive players for two winners. If they trade Crawford for a passing point guard(like Scott Skiles), they'll be fine. The problem here is that a point guard who focuses on scoring when you already have lots of scoring threats can't win. The only reason NY is winning right now is that Steph has commited himself to passing more. Why do you think AI plays SG? Why aren't the Wizards winning? Why can't the Cavs win with Lebron at point? Why can't the Hawks put Terry at point and win? It's not a coincidence.

by **benji** on Sun Jan 25, 2004 11:04 am

sliccat wrote:The Rose trade was the best Chicago's had in years. They traded two good offensive players for two winners.

What kind of world are we living in when Antonio Davis and Jerome Williams are considered winners...Jalen Rose went to the Eastern Finals twice and was a key player on a team that went to the Finals...Davis hasn't gotten past the second round and JYD has never been past the first round...

If they trade Crawford for a passing point guard(like Scott Skiles), they'll be fine.

Then what will they do with Hinrich? :roll:

The problem here is that a point guard who focuses on scoring when you already have lots of scoring threats can't win.

If the Bulls have lots of scoring threats they sure aren't scoring since the Bulls are the worst team in the league on offense.

Why aren't the Wizards winning? Why can't the Cavs win with Lebron at point? Why can't the Hawks put Terry at point and win? It's not a coincidence.

You ignore what all of those teams have in common other than a scoring point. That's right, they suck.

And to say scoring points don't win is kinda a stereotype. Mookie Blaylock, Terrell Brandon, Tim Hardaway, Gary Payton, Steve Nash, Mike Bibby, Tony Parker, Sam Cassell are all recent scoring points who come to mind that also have won. The difference is their teams had good players.

by **Stevan** on Sun Jan 25, 2004 11:59 am

Sliccat is right again. Like he mentioned in a couple of other threads, the problem is Crawford's play at the point this season! :idea:

by **benji** on Sun Jan 25, 2004 12:38 pm

Oops, I made a mistake by not noticing I only was displaying 28 teams and scrolling down. Washington is worse than Chicago (94.1 to 94.8) on offense. Sorry, everyone, I apologize in bunches. :oops:

by **fgrep15** on Sun Jan 25, 2004 5:08 pm

Crawford isn't playing point, Hinrich is, and the Bulls can't beat us DipsetVC Vince was hobbling last game though, at least he had 8dimes.

THE BULLS ARE THE MOST DISAPPOINTING TEAM IN THE LEAGUE

THE BULLS ARE THE MOST DISAPPOINTING TEAM IN THE LEAGUE

i am so sick of "the trade" being blamed

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